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Why Snowden Did Right
Bruce66423 writes: "Ebon Moglen Gives a comprehensive explanation of how the NSA's surveillance operations are a threat to a functioning democracy, and why there is a need for real change. There are interesting parallels to the Roman Empires: 'The power of that Roman empire rested in its leaders' control of communications. ... The emperors invented the posts to move couriers and messages at the fastest possible speed. Using that infrastructure, with respect to everything that involved the administration of power, the emperor made himself the best-informed person in the history of the world. That power eradicated human freedom. "Remember," said Cicero to Marcellus in exile, "wherever you are, you are equally within the power of the conqueror.'
Nowadays, 'Our military listeners have invaded the centre of an evolving net, where conscriptable digital superbrains gather intelligence on the human race for purposes of bagatelle and capitalism. In the US, the telecommunications companies have legal immunity for their complicity, thus easing the way further. The invasion of our net was secret, and we did not know that we should resist. But resistance developed as a fifth column among the listeners themselves. Because of Snowden, we now know that the listeners undertook to do what they repeatedly promised respectable expert opinion they would never do. They always said they would not attempt to break the crypto that secures the global financial system. That was false.'"
Nowadays, 'Our military listeners have invaded the centre of an evolving net, where conscriptable digital superbrains gather intelligence on the human race for purposes of bagatelle and capitalism. In the US, the telecommunications companies have legal immunity for their complicity, thus easing the way further. The invasion of our net was secret, and we did not know that we should resist. But resistance developed as a fifth column among the listeners themselves. Because of Snowden, we now know that the listeners undertook to do what they repeatedly promised respectable expert opinion they would never do. They always said they would not attempt to break the crypto that secures the global financial system. That was false.'"
If somebody did something right in the last decades, politically speaking, was Snowden.
If all Snowden had done was blow the whistle on domestic surveillance programs, I'd agree entirely.
But doing a massive document dump that included things the NSA is *supposed* to do - spy on non-US countries - puts Snowden in another category. What that category winds up being is going to be decided by history. But it won't be that of a simple whistleblower doing nothing but good.
Because the only people who claim that have "harming the US" as a goal. (At least have the balls to admit that, please.)
It's not democracy if capitalism has its hooks in every aspect of government.
If you think back 40-50, one of the primary criticism of Soviet Russia was that no one in that country did any real work. In industry you sat around all day playing chess, and the governement most spent it's time surveilling itself and everyone else. While this was an exaggeration, the point should be well taken. The purpose of a governement is to govern, and if too many resources are spent spying, if the stability is so strained that constant monitoring of citizens is required, then that nation-state is not going to survive very long. It is not only the expense, it is the waste of talent, the existence of meaningless jobs. This later is really death to a country. If young people know they need no real education because they can just chill in the military or hang out and drink vodka while spying on other people, why would they bother to gain real skills?
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
So, essentially, in a communist world, the government controls the industry, and in a capitalist world it's exactly the opposite thereof?
Uh... can I choose "neither"?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The United States is not a democracy. It never has been. We use a democratic election process to elect representatives. That means we live in a republic. Which, coincidentally, is what the Romans had before they were an empire.
But a republic is what the founding fathers had in mind. A true democracy would not work in America. And if you doubt that, learn what a true democracy entails.
The sad truth is the majority of Americans are fundamentally cowards. That, combined with the human tendency to grossly over estimate the risks from rare events with severe consequences creates this problem.
Unlike a war which happens over there terrorist acts can happen anywhere. If they can happen anywhere, they can happen here, to me! Gasp!
Look at the hysteria that occurred when the anthrax mailings were going on. People were reporting "white powder" everywhere and breathlessly telling each other "that could've been me, I could have DIED".
No, not really. Unless you were a postal worker, you had a bigger chance of being kicked to death by a wild mule than you did of encountering anthrax in a package.
The sad truth is people play their potential role up in their mind because they think their lives are boring and uneventful. A terrorist attack may be horrible, but it is exciting, too. People do the same thing with celebrities. "OMG! I ate dinner in the same restaurant as Justin Bieber! He was there the night before!"
Add all of that together and you get a lot of people who will gladly give up lots of freedom for a little (perceived) security.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Hah, If nothing else, that he's being shielded by a true tyrant is evidence of what side of right he's truly on.
Because america, although projected as one, is far from a functional democracy. We've engaged in systematic disenfranchisement and enslavery of an entire race of people during slavery and well into the 20th century within the confines our our policy of mass incarceration. Women didnt achieve equal voting rights until the early 20th century. We wiped an entire indigenous race of humans out of existence during colonization. Voter identification is enforced in 30 states and will prevent free and open election for anyone without a picture ID. Gerrymandering, closed primary elections, and the 2000 florida voter scandal are all conclusive proof we do not even remotely represent a functional democracy and have not for quite some time. Former criminals, after completing their sentence, are barred from the right to vote in many states and may only seek restoration of their voting rights with the pardon of a governor and a steep fee. Many states still maintain a debtors prison system by which those who cannot pay court costs are summarily enrolled in detention facilities. A Third party has not existed in any respectible context in the United States for more than 100 years, and the electoral college system exists to ensure this reality remains unchallenged. There are virtually no repercussions for employers who resist or refuse an employees request for time off from work to vote. Japanese americans faced internment and were not permitted to vote during world war two, let alone contact family members outside of their camp. Jews were barred in america holding state office for quite some time, and atheists to this day in many states are still restricted from holding political office. New York has a stop-and-frisk policy where they do not need probable cause to stop anyone at will. Our supreme court recently ruled that the systemic isolation, relocation, and arrest of protestors during the presidency of George W Bush was entirely legal. As evidenced by the occupy campaign we readily beat, torture, and maim protestors even going to far as to hose passive protestors with pepperspray for simply existing. Our borders have the free right to interrogate, stop, and detain anyone (american or not) without any formal probable cause. Those declared terrorists may be detained indefinitely and shipped to a secret torture camp in Cuba. We have banned the communist party from ever taking part in an american election or operating as political party.
so while I applaud the author for pointing this very recent discovery out, its critical to remember we are as much a functional democracy as the USSR was a functional communism.
Good people go to bed earlier.
If you're going to put Obama in that category then I have to add George W Bush to the list and most of Congress who also went along with violations of the Constitution too.
Americans are afraid because the media - especially Fox News who prays upon old people;the majority of voters during the mid-terms - has instilled fear to generate ratings.
TV, Internet and radio news is evil and for stupid people.
Spread the word.
Very true. But Bush isn't currently in office. Obama can still affect future legislation in a meaningful way, and those congresscritters can still effect meaningful legislation. Let's keep the focus on those actually in office, and drop the partisan BS. Neither party is on our side here, but politicians still care if enough of a stink is raised among voters (the geek voice doesn't matter, but when they start getting calls from friends and family asking about stuff, you bet it matters). I think most people actually care about being spied on--it's programmed into us, as with most mammals, at a pretty fundamental level to treat strangers watching us as hostile--but most people don't yet realize the extent. There's also still hope for the courts.
I believe the German high court recently ruled as unconstitutional the cooperation between their own intel agency and the NSA, on the basis that the NSA does not comply with German law when spying on German citizens. Perhaps we can manage the same?
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
The NSA is the one that has betrayed the country. Snowden called them out.
First of all, Snowden didn't actually tell us anything we didn't already know; all he did was remind everyone that it was still happening. The stuff he told us was old news that had already been reported by every news agency and then forgotten by the American public.
Second, in his haste to tell us what we already knew, he also included some extra classified information == an act of treason.
tl;dr: Snowden could have just said "see story from <date>; it's still happening."
Democracy can not and does not exist within a cocoon of lies, where the truth us actively suppressed. You can not make an independent decision based upon lies and in the absence of truth, you only get to agree with what you have been instructed to agree with. What happens here is the minority who craft the public mind space to achieve their own personal goals will ruthlessly attack those who attempt to pierce that bubble of illusion, those attacks being outright extermination or severe torture and imprisonment. We are already in that stage and are currently somewhat protected by the internet. The ability to spread and diffuse the truth amongst many (so it comes from many, many sources, torrentable web sites might become popular with distribution from many points, individual level ISP like protections) and thus not come publicly under individual attack unless we specifically and expressly stand out from the crowd of online protesters and resistors unless of course we have something of true global significance to present, they we have to take our chances, like many others have done before us.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen