Amazon Confirms Hachette Spat Is To "Get a Better Deal"

tlhIngan (30335) writes "Last week we heard that Amazon was withdrawing Hachette books from its virtual shelves including allowing preorders of the new JK Rowling book. Amazon has responded to these allegations, and confirms that yes, they are purposefully preventing pre-orders and lowering stock in order to get a better deal from Hachette. Amazon recommends that in the meantime, customers either buy a used or new copy from their zShops or buy from a competitor. Amazon admits there is nothing wrong with Hachette's business dealings and that they are a generally good supplier." Here's Hachette's response to the Amazon statement.

Comments

Books aren't special

[Enigma2175]

FTFA:

Amazon indicates that it considers books to be like any other consumer good. They are not.

My rebuttal: Yes they are.

Re:Books aren't special

[Anonymous Coward]

Hachette's response was no more elaborate. Why do you hold him to a higher standard then the publisher? That indicates you aren't interested in the answer, but are just trolling.

Re:Books aren't special

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Arguably they aren't like any other consumer good: they share a pretty easily identified, and salient, set of characteristics with certain other 'culture products', music, movies, and similar: marginal cost of production is essentially zero, different ones are partial substitutes for one another; but rather weakly compared to other consumer goods, 'brand' affinity follows individual producers (or nominal producers, as in the case of certain heavily-managed tween-pop-to-order acts) rather than companies, and so forth.

Books aren't some Unique And Sacred Category Unto Themselves; but the characteristics listed above are pretty significantly unlike those of, say, consumer appliances(where marginal cost of production is comparatively high, different ones are nearly perfect substitutes, brand affinity, if any, follows companies while individual designers are unknown, etc.)

What isn't clear to me (any authors in the house?) is whether the traditional big publishers are, by reason of a certain gentlemanly ossification, allies to the otherwise scattered and helotized writers, or whether this is basically a spat between two would-be-exploiters of authors over who gets the profits.

Amazon sure as hell isn't in this out of the goodness of their hearts; but they are also not going to waste a penny more than necessary on quaint traditional supply chains, 'remaindered' or 'stripped' books, and anything of the like; but they also aren't going to let any mere customs hold them back when it comes to contractual matters.

The incumbent publishers are definitely more tradition-bound; but I don't know how much this just makes them inefficient, and how much it makes them act more nicely than good old sociopathic 'homo economicus' would.

Re:Books aren't special

[Anonymous Coward]

Your argument is that books aren't like other consumer goods because they're not fungible. Your debate partner pointed out that other items which are generally considered consumer goods are also not fungible. This implies that whether or not an item is fungible isn't sufficient for defining whether or not an item is a consumer good. Generally, this is the point were you would offer up another criteria to distinguish between non-fungible consumer goods and books.

Re:Books aren't special

[phantomfive]

Amazon sure as hell isn't in this out of the goodness of their hearts;

And lets be honest, neither are publishers. And if we really dig deep, we might find that authors sometimes write mainly for profit as well.

Re: Books aren't special

[LocalH]

Spot on. I take issue with Amazon's handling of this not because of anything to do with whether books are a "consumer good" or not, which they clearly are in the first place (they're sold at retail, buyer gains first sale rights concerning the physical object, sounds pretty much like a good to me). It's because it's anti-consumer. It punishes people who dare to buy from vendors or publishers which the marketplace provider has some sort of issue with. It's exactly like the fights between cable/satellite providers and distributors. The only thing they do is punish the people who enjoy the things they air. Exactly like those situations, we have public communication from each entity blaming the other and confusing the average person. I half-expect Amazon to start putting a little ad-size box on pages for Hachette books "explaining" to the potential buyer why they shouldn't even buy the book in the first place, and Hachette adding extra pages into Amazon-destined copies explaining how shitty Amazon is.

It's all a big dick-waving contest and doesn't help anyone but the one with the biggest dick.

Re:Books aren't special

[ranton]

They were more elaborate. Here's the entire paragraph ouf of which' context the sensence was taken

Authors, with whom we at Hachette have been partners for nearly two centuries, engage in a complex and difficult mission to communicate with readers. In addition to royalties, they are concerned with audience, career, culture, education, art, entertainment, and connection. By preventing its customers from connecting with these authors’ books, Amazon indicates that it considers books to be like any other consumer good. They are not.

You may agree of disagree, but do not hide behind lies.

You could come up with any number of reasons why a certain consumer good is unique. Take this for example:

Microwave oven manufacturers, with whom we at [generic distribution company] have been partners for nearly 60 years, engage in a complex and difficult mission to provide food to humanity. They provide a way to reuse food in a way that helps cut down on food waste, thus reducing the amount of land that is necessary to feed to world. By preventing its customers from purchasing these microwaves, Amazon indicates that it considers microwaves to be like any other consumer good. They are not.

Nothing they said backs up their claim that books are not just another consumer good. They are just explaining why this particular consumer good exists.

Antitrust investigation?

[manu0601]

Shouldn't this fuel an antitrust investigation? The mere fact they can pressure a publisher by not listing their books means free market failed.

Re:Antitrust investigation?

[Anonymous Coward]

no, being able to put preassure on someone by deciding to buy from someone else is not showing that the free market failed, it is the free market in operation.

Re:Antitrust investigation?

[Arker]

"it is the free market in operation"

Except the only free market in books tolerated is in reprints of books originally published in prior millenia. This is not a free market on either end or in any way.

Re:Time to become a better shopper

[Frosty Piss]

See, I'm not necessarily upset at Amazon for doing this, as they're being seemingly open and honest about it.

Sure they are. But that doesn't make it right.

Cheap books now, but in the long run, fewer choices.

Re:Fight for consumers

[Frosty Piss]

It's good to see a big company actually fight for better prices for customers.

No, that's not the Amazon plan. In fact, they are trying to drive publishers out of business and force authors to deal directly with them, as the only choice. As the de facto monopoly, they can dictate to the authors what they will pay, and it ain't going to be pretty.

Punish Apple!

[SuperKendall]

Amazon behaving badly in a market where they have a monopoly? Time to get out the Apple Beatin' Stick again! Got to keep down those competitors with government sanctioned punishments for even trying.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Time to become a better shopper

[Accordion Noir]

I'd say that WalMart is getting close to a monopoly in towns I've visited where a few years before there were hardware stores, grocery stores, fabric stores etc, and a somewhat functional downtown, and now there is ... Walmart. It's not the only place you can buy things in the country, but it has pretty much driven some whole towns out of business.

There's anecdotal evidence for you.

Re:Fight for consumers

[bdam]

Full Disclosure: I work for a small publisher. In terms of actual stores dedicated to selling books, there are fewer and fewer of them as time goes by. And it's not just the small guys, Borders got taken out too. To be clear, there's an economic argument to be made that this is a good thing but let's at least be clear about one thing: Amazon has a very real monopoly on print and electronic books. While publishers will come and go over time the idea that authors will publish their own books shows a lack of experience actually dealing with real authors. Sure, some have the talent, desire, and resources to do so. However, that vast majority of authors we deal with do not want to prepare their books for market and then have to deal with retailers. Further, publishers are partially in the business of risk taking by offering up payment upfront to authors for works they haven't completed yet. Authors tend to be comforted knowing that they'll get $X now for signing the contracts and $Y later when they deliver the manuscript regardless of actually making a single sale. Again, some authors are willing to take that risk and it will pay off but not many. So sure, Amazon could take on those roles but that doesn't just magically remove teat suckers. Unless you want unedited and un-styled walls of text someone's going to have to edit the damn thing and someone with an eye for a design needs to make it look half-way appealing. Those people aren't likely to do so for free. I'm sure Amazon could come into the market though and push those costs down and economically that'd be great. However, speaking long term, how long is that going to last? If Amazon has a monopoly on publishing in addition to distribution then what makes you think they'll continue with razor-thin margins?