Ford's Bringing Adaptive Steering To the Masses

Ghost in the machine by DigiShaman · 2014-05-30 05:59 · Score: 5, Interesting

Does that mean that if one of those actuators or logic board malfunctions, that it could steer a car into traffic? All it takes is for a few milliseconds and some force to jerk the wheel out of someone's hands. Or so I would imagine.

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Re:Ghost in the machine by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:06 · Score: 0

This would be the #1 consideration for the engineers implementing this system. There are probably hundreds of systems in a modern car that would cause catastrophic failure if not for backup and safety systems.
Re:Ghost in the machine by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2014-05-30 06:09 · Score: 2

I'm pretty sure designers of fly-by-wire airplanes have already solved the problem. ;-)

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Re:Ghost in the machine by HideyoshiJP · 2014-05-30 06:15 · Score: 3, Informative

That would also be an issue with the electric steering alone. While it's hydraulic, my RX-7 also has speed sensitive power steering and it works rather well. Variable ratio steering was first available on the Honda S2000, and I don't think anyone's complaining. This system simply uses EPAS to accomplish much the same thing.
Re:Ghost in the machine by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:16 · Score: 1

Yes, because cars fly 30k above ground and have vast distances between it and other planes in the sky. A millisecond malfunction might pull the car into head-on traffic. But I'm sure the engineers know that. What could possibly go wrong?
Re:Ghost in the machine by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

I remember reading about a vehicle made in Europe that was completely drive-by-wire with no mechanical linkages whatsoever. Of course, some vehicles had glitches, and when they did, there was nothing to do but hope the wreck didn't kill you.
You know how many criminal organizations would love to be able to use an assist motor to jam a steering wheel at will? With how interconnected vehicles are, it might just take a bluetooth hole to get on the CANBus, then go from there.
I wouldn't blame Ford specifically, but I do worry about things like GM's OnStar being a prime target for hackers. Get control of that, disable all GM cars, tout the accomplishment, and win immense street cred. Same with getting motor-assisted steering to start jerking the wheel at random to cause crashes, it would put an organization on the map and give them respect worldwide.
Car makers have been good, but in general, most companies feel that security has no ROI, so don't do much than lip service, and coupled with all the crap that can take over a vehicle's ECM [1], it can be concerning.
[1]: I was reading about a "tattle" device by one insurance company which apparently something over the OBD 2 connector, so if the device was removed, the vehicle wouldn't start. Is this real? Doubtful, but it is concerning.
Re:Ghost in the machine by perpenso · 2014-05-30 06:18 · Score: 4, Informative

I'm pretty sure designers of fly-by-wire airplanes have already solved the problem. ;-)
Yes, they had ejection seats for the first couple of decades of fly-by-wire. ;-)
Re:Ghost in the machine by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:21 · Score: 1

That could be a danger in any power steering system. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.
(How hydraulic power steering works.)
Altering the power of the assist shouldn't make this any more dangerous. Worse case, you lose power assist. Although that's bit GM hard lately with their ignition switch recall.
Re:Ghost in the machine by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:28 · Score: 1

I'll stick with my horse thank you very much!
None of this newfangled automobile nonsense.
Re:Ghost in the machine by perpenso · 2014-05-30 06:29 · Score: 2

Does that mean that if one of those actuators or logic board malfunctions, that it could steer a car into traffic?
Or becomes unresponsive when the key disengages, like power steering in the recent GM recall scandal? At least there steering only became difficult. They are going to have to power the system as long as the wheels are turning.
Re:Ghost in the machine by funwithBSD · 2014-05-30 06:33 · Score: 1

They also had people shooting at them...

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Re:Ghost in the machine by Grishnakh · 2014-05-30 06:56 · Score: 1

I'm pretty sure the S2000 did not have speed-variable-ratio steering; this is entirely new. All cars these days have rack-and-pinion steering, with a direct mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the steering arms and front wheels. What the S2000 had, IIRC, is different gearing on the rack, so as the pinion turned, the ratio would increase towards the limits of the steering range. Basically, the slots cut in the rack were closer together in the middle, and farther apart at the ends. Big f'in deal.
What this system proposes is to vary the steering ratio with vehicle speed. I honestly have no idea how they plan to do this mechanically, unless they're going to eliminate the direct coupling between the steering and the front wheels, which sounds like a terrible idea to me (for one thing, how do you steer the car when the power is off? Batteries and engines do die sometimes.)
Re:Ghost in the machine by ottawanker · 2014-05-30 07:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

Electric power steering works with sensors on the steering wheel that detect when you turn it, and how much. The car then does some calculations taking into account the force and speed with which you turn the wheel, and the speed at which the vehicle is traveling. It then activates a motor, which actually turns the wheels.
I believe there is an electromagnetic clutch that disconnects the steering wheel from the actual rack and pinion, unless a fault is detected.
Re:Ghost in the machine by Kozar_The_Malignant · 2014-05-30 07:09 · Score: 3, Informative

They also had people shooting at them...
Sort of like driving in west Oakland.

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Re:Ghost in the machine by hermitdev · 2014-05-30 07:14 · Score: 1

Altering the power of the assist shouldn't make this any more dangerous. Worse case, you lose power assist. Although that's bit GM hard lately with their ignition switch recall.
That's by biggest concern with this: if you engine stalls or turns off (for whatever) reason, do you completely lose steering, or you just lose power assist? There is a huge difference, even though suddenly losing assist can cause trouble.
Re:Ghost in the machine by sn0wcrash · 2014-05-30 07:32 · Score: 2

I had one of the Pontiac G6s with the electric power steering assist. Let me tell you, when that electric assist went out it was exceedingly difficult to turn. Even at speed. Hydraulically assisted cars of the past would still be relatively easy to steer when moving over about 5mph. That G6 was absolutely dangerous when the electric assist failed. While GM claimed there was no issue, they did revert to hydraulic steering assist in later models. That alone should tell you the truth of the matter.
Re:Ghost in the machine by Grishnakh · 2014-05-30 07:34 · Score: 5, Informative

Electric power steering works with sensors on the steering wheel that detect when you turn it, and how much. The car then does some calculations taking into account the force and speed with which you turn the wheel, and the speed at which the vehicle is traveling. It then activates a motor, which actually turns the wheels.
No, it doesn't.
EPS is little different from hydraulic power steering. The motor merely assists the driver in steering the car. There's still a direct mechanical connection between the wheel and the steering arms. The sensors on the steering wheel are detecting how much torque you're applying to the wheel, and use that and the road speed to determine how much assist to give via the motor.
There's no clutch in normal EPS cars. These new variable-ratio ones, however, might just work that way.
Re:Ghost in the machine by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 07:34 · Score: 0

Hydraulic and electric power steering both have still have a manual connection to the steering works. This wouldn't be any different. Unfortunately, I think the typical driver would crash immediately if power assist was lost.
My hybrid with regenerative braking has fly-by-wire brakes. Which is a little discomforting. When you mash the brake pedal, it's just a rheostat and the computer decides to put on the brakes. Or not.
Re:Ghost in the machine by AmiMoJo · 2014-05-30 07:38 · Score: 1

It doesn't work that way. At worst the steering would become heavy due to lack of power steering. The motors are designed so that you can overcome them in the event of a catastrophic failure.

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Re:Ghost in the machine by hackertourist · 2014-05-30 07:45 · Score: 5, Informative

Depends on the implementation. BMW, for instance, uses a planetary gear set connected to the steering wheel, the rack and an electric motor. If the motor or the adaptive steering logic fails, the motor is locked and you get an ordinary constant-ratio steering system.
Checking whether the steering output matches the input would take care of your scenario.
Re:Ghost in the machine by HideyoshiJP · 2014-05-30 08:06 · Score: 1

Here's a Honda press-release on it. It is entirely possible that the S2000 system is something different, but I have a feeling that this is just a combination of an EPAS system that does something similar, in addition to varying weight. I agree with you on the lack of mechanical linkage. Nissan has some system that retains the driveshaft for times when the steer-by-wire is malfunctioning, but I have a feeling that by the time it's malfunctioning (10 years on), the mechanical fall-back mechanism will likely be faulty too.
Re:Ghost in the machine by the_other_chewey · 2014-05-30 08:08 · Score: 2

I remember reading about a vehicle made in Europe that was completely drive-by-wire with no mechanical linkages whatsoever.
This might have been the Mercedes-Benz F200 concept car -
driven by completely electronic sidesticks.

This allowed for some cool features, e.g. completely vibration-free controls on
cobblestones while the electronic steering made continuous tiny adjustments to
the front wheels.

It also means it had no chance to be certified for public roads.
Re:Ghost in the machine by ottawanker · 2014-05-30 08:45 · Score: 1

Sorry, I was talking about the electric power steering found on steer-by-wire cars, like the Infiniti Q50.
http://www.autoweek.com/articl...
Re:Ghost in the machine by jcdr · 2014-05-30 09:17 · Score: 2

This is old news: this system is already used on some cars since many years. Toyota for example have it at least since the 10 years old Prius II.
And now think about the driverless Google car...
Re:Ghost in the machine by LinuxIsGarbage · 2014-05-30 09:45 · Score: 2

I remember reading about a vehicle made in Europe that was completely drive-by-wire with no mechanical linkages whatsoever. Of course, some vehicles had glitches, and when they did, there was nothing to do but hope the wreck didn't kill you.
You know how many criminal organizations would love to be able to use an assist motor to jam a steering wheel at will? With how interconnected vehicles are, it might just take a bluetooth hole to get on the CANBus, then go from there.
I wouldn't blame Ford specifically, but I do worry about things like GM's OnStar being a prime target for hackers. Get control of that, disable all GM cars, tout the accomplishment, and win immense street cred. Same with getting motor-assisted steering to start jerking the wheel at random to cause crashes, it would put an organization on the map and give them respect worldwide.
Car makers have been good, but in general, most companies feel that security has no ROI, so don't do much than lip service, and coupled with all the crap that can take over a vehicle's ECM [1], it can be concerning.
[1]: I was reading about a "tattle" device by one insurance company which apparently something over the OBD 2 connector, so if the device was removed, the vehicle wouldn't start. Is this real? Doubtful, but it is concerning.
Even without steer by wire, this can be accomplished with electric power steering. As an example, look at "Active Park Assist". The system will command the steering wheel to turn, pretty much to full lock, based on what the sensors see. I assume (maybe?) if it detects resistance on the steering wheel it won't over power it, but the technology is already there for the wheels to turn as the computer sees fit. Electronic Throttle Control means the gas pedal is really just a suggestion to the computer, and hybrids with regenerative braking, the brakes are (somewhat?) brake by wire.
Plus with push button start, to kill power for have to hold the power button for several seconds if you need an emergency shut down due to a malfunction. Cars are also moving to electronic parking brakes too.
Re:Ghost in the machine by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 09:48 · Score: 0

In spite of that Honda press release about a specific type of variable speed steering that debuted on the S2000, Honda's first speed-variable power steering was on the venerable Honda Prelude 4 wheel steering versions back in the 80's.
Honda used to do some serious engineering in their automobiles, but in the mid-2000's they hired too many folks from Detroit ... with about the results you'd expect (ever wonder why that huge shield on the front of Acura's reminded you of something GM might put on its cars? Yeah, that's why)
Re:Ghost in the machine by John.Banister · 2014-05-30 10:47 · Score: 1

I used to hear that you could use them in self-driving mode to get you home if you'd had too much to drink, but not anymore.
Re:Ghost in the machine by sillybilly · 2014-05-30 13:49 · Score: 1

How about remote control driving your car not in the direction you're intending to drive. In fact I had such a car, it felt like it had a smooth fluid coupling in the steering coulumn, kind of like old stero knobs, but it always acted up when I drove around the same area, or sometimes 10 minutes more south, either under of above a bridge, and I started spinning on the highway at 70 mph once i hit s rainspot, slowed a lot by the time I hit the berm, but both airbags deployed and the car was totaled. Only my right pinky hurt, even though I smashed out the driver's side window with my head, I din't feel anyting .
Re:Ghost in the machine by Nirvelli · 2014-05-30 18:33 · Score: 1

I've got a Ford Fusion with the lane keeping system, and sometimes it will act up, for instance if there has been construction and they've redone the lane lines, the system somehow picks up the old lines and tries to keep me in them. Or on rare occasions when I have to swerve around something on the road, it fights back. But as long as you've got both hands on the wheel, you'll win against the auto-steering with very little effort. Even one-handed, you just have to be a little assertive with it. "No, you're not steering me off the road today!"
The system is a bit strange to get used to (not nearly as strange as adaptive cruise), but overall it's pretty well implemented.

They also have it set up so if the car thinks you're not holding on to the wheel, it pops up a warning message over your dash screen to keep your hands on the wheel. They have this to make sure you're holding on in case it tries to go somewhere wrong.
Re:Ghost in the machine by havardi · 2014-05-30 20:09 · Score: 1

Hydraulic isn't much different. A blocked port in the rack and pinion can send the wheel spinning wildly in one direction. Happened to my brother's old Volvo. The wheel would damn-near tear your arm off and try to send you into oncoming traffic. There are a lot of ways to build in saftey. I was impressed with recent brake-pedal light switches. My oldest car was one wire that completed a ground loop. If the switch failed you'd never know. My next car it was two wires. My newest car is three wires, and the plunger switch always opens one circuit and closes the other. With three wires the computer can sense a defective switch if the switch is ever in an open/open or closed/closed situation. In fact the computer logic allows *some* brief amounts of this situation simply to account for inaccuracies in the switch itself. So, things do get better.
Re:Ghost in the machine by sillybilly · 2014-05-30 23:51 · Score: 1

I was half asleep writing that last night.. wow, look at the spelling/grammar.. once i hit a rainspot, anything.. anyway, smooth turning stereo knob-like fluid couplings in power steering sucks, such as Dodge Neons from the 90's, especially when it can be remote controlled to go in an opposite direction from where you want to go.. in fact power steering in general has issues, because even in my current car, a Saturn, which feels like there is a rigid connection between the tires and the steering wheel, assisted by power steering, well, I lost that power steering coming off the highway starting at 65 mph decelerating to a green light to make a left turn, but there was a slight right turn in the road right before the light, so you had to decelerate, turn to the right, then turn hard to the left. The light hit yellow just as expected, and I made it before the yellow, however when I pressed the gas after the left turn taking my foot off the brake, it wouldn't accelerate, I looked down at the console, and the engine was dead with the lights on, so I had to turn the ignition key to get it going again. The engine had died on me, and all of a sudden it made sense why just previously it was so hard to steer right, and then left, why I almost went off the asphalt on the left side of the curb when I was supposed to do the steering right part, it's because I lost power steering, that's why I practically had to rip the steering wheel with both hands to make it move the way I wanted it to move. Losing power steering can cost you your life if you can't make the car go where you want it to go, and as all newer cars are not carburetted but fuel injected, therefore chipped, and remote controlled and gps tracked, Da Man can cut your power steering off anytime, at the worst possible places, and make it look like you were in an accident, especially if you exercise your right to free speech on Slashdot in a way that he finds annoying. Please be aware of that.
Re:Ghost in the machine by ultranova · 2014-05-31 01:14 · Score: 1

What this system proposes is to vary the steering ratio with vehicle speed. I honestly have no idea how they plan to do this mechanically, unless they're going to eliminate the direct coupling between the steering and the front wheels, which sounds like a terrible idea to me

Some form of continuously variable transmission in the steering shaft, most likely. And it's still a bad idea, since more moving parts means a bigger chance of failure. I'd much rather take a simple straight shaft and just move my arms more, thank you very much.

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Re:Ghost in the machine by ormondotvos · 2014-05-31 08:28 · Score: 1

Citroen, as usual, beat them to it. By decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...
Re:Ghost in the machine by Bill+Dog · 2014-05-31 09:29 · Score: 1

Holy crap, dude! A car that fights you over the steering wheel! This is the most alarming thing I've heard in a while. If someone not paying attention ventures onto or over the line between our lanes, I need to be able to calmly ease my car over to hug the other side.
It's just amazing what a bad idea certain "helping" automation can be. This will just make everyone unsafer, at least until every car on the road has it. I was thinking if I had that I'd have it off normally, and only turn it on if I was driving tired. And there it is.

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Re: Ghost in the machine by Nirvelli · 2014-05-31 09:39 · Score: 1

Yeah, that's the other situation where it can get annoying, when somebody drifts into my lane. The on/off toggle is also right on the end of the signal stalk, so you can tap it off right from your fingertips if you need to. You can also set it at low/medium/high, and you can set it to full correct, or just warn with a steering wheel vibration. I've set it to full correct on high, mostly because I like to see how it reacts to things and I know I'm paying enough attention to take over when I need.

I always turn off mouse acceleration by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:00 · Score: 0

So I guess this isn't good news, is it?

Radical new way to steer the car. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2014-05-30 06:03 · Score: 1

That large wheel that can allow two hands grip it completely to steer the car is very old fashioned. For the current crop of young drivers just coming in, they will learn it so much faster if we replace the steering wheels with this. They have already accumulated thousands of hours of experience long before they hit driver-ed class. This electric steering will help us get there faster.

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Re:Radical new way to steer the car. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2014-05-30 06:05 · Score: 2

Fixing the no-hot-link issue. This is the device.

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Re:Radical new way to steer the car. by Grishnakh · 2014-05-30 06:06 · Score: 3, Interesting

This is a stupid idea. For one thing, a big, red, octagonal stop sign is not a good way to steer a car.
But in case you're talking about joysticks, those are terrible ways to control cars, because they don't have the range of motion that a steering wheel does. If they made any sense at all, you'd see Formula 1 cars with them. You don't. F1 cars all use steering wheels, despite being loaded with an incredible amount of technology.
Re:Radical new way to steer the car. by wagnerrp · 2014-05-30 06:39 · Score: 1

Not even proper joysticks, but shitty mini-analogs.
All you need to do to discover how bad an idea joystick controls on a car would be is to try to use a scissor lift. They have a lot of torque (at low top speed), and you basically have to wedge your arm into the control harness and control the stick with a stiff wrist. Otherwise, you push the stick forward, the lift accelerates, inertia jerks your arm back, and you pull back on the stick. Rinse, repeat...
Re:Radical new way to steer the car. by Grishnakh · 2014-05-30 06:57 · Score: 1

Wow, are you really that stupid? You can't use pushbuttons to steer a car.
Re:Radical new way to steer the car. by dj245 · 2014-05-30 07:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

Not even proper joysticks, but shitty mini-analogs.
All you need to do to discover how bad an idea joystick controls on a car would be is to try to use a scissor lift. They have a lot of torque (at low top speed), and you basically have to wedge your arm into the control harness and control the stick with a stiff wrist. Otherwise, you push the stick forward, the lift accelerates, inertia jerks your arm back, and you pull back on the stick. Rinse, repeat...
Or try driving any piece of heavy equipment over any kind of rough ground. I wondered why the front-end loader driver kept revving the engine. When I drove it myself, I quickly found out that rough ground + no suspension made the operator's foot bounce on the gas pedal and create a positive feedback cycle. More bump = more bouncing off the gas pedal = even more bumping around.

Also Saab tried a joystick control in one of their prototypes . Top Gear tried it out in one episode, it didn't work very well at all.

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Re:Radical new way to steer the car. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 09:14 · Score: 2, Informative

Electronically controlled power steering is not allowed in F1.
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/technical_regulations/8708/
Re:Radical new way to steer the car. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 10:30 · Score: 0

I think he was making a joke. This is to you fag boys that this wooshed right over.
Re:Radical new way to steer the car. by John.Banister · 2014-05-30 11:09 · Score: 1

I have to disagree. Those take two hands, and the current crop of young drivers will want to operate the media/communications device also. Why not use one of these, give it a 9 volt battery, a bluetooth connection, and a piece of Velcro on the bottom. Then you could just put cup holders everywhere, and the driver could stick it to the one that's most convenient.

While Google eliminates the steering wheel... by sillivalley · 2014-05-30 06:03 · Score: 2

So tell me please, which company is the innovator?

Re:While Google eliminates the steering wheel... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:26 · Score: 0

You might be right. I'm kind of surprised that Google was so forward thinking. I expected them to put fingerprint readers in the steering wheel so that they could sell them to their real customers in an attempt to better track the end user.
Re:While Google eliminates the steering wheel... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 08:09 · Score: 0

While Google eliminates the steering wheel...

why would google *eliminate* the steering wheel? an lcd display in the center of it is the perfect location for ads (highly targeted, of course, based on previous location and shopping history and current location).
Re:While Google eliminates the steering wheel... by thegarbz · 2014-05-31 13:31 · Score: 1

Incremental advancements are just as much an innovation as radical changes in design.
Remember without it you'd still have to use the full force of your body to turn a car into a carpark. Power assisted steering has been a major benefit to drivers all over long before the pipe dream of a steering-wheel-less car was even imaginable. Even now we're talking about changes that can benefit us right now, while Google is talking about changes which will be another 10 years away from popular use.
Both companies are innovators.

Yay more recalls upcoming! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:04 · Score: 0

This tech is why you get to take your Ford Escape in for a recall today. Enjoy!

Version 1.0 by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:05 · Score: 0

Boy I can't wait to try out the Version 1.0 of this bad boy.

Ghost in the machine by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:07 · Score: 5, Funny

No thanks, I'll keep my hand on the burger and cell phone and coffee and makeup and... where I'm in full control

Old tech is new news? by elistan · 2014-05-30 06:08 · Score: 3, Informative

This isn't exactly new. While I don't know how exactly the system works, Honda offered variable gear steering on the S2000 Type V 14 years ago. A while I don't know if any "for the masses" cars has variable gear steering, there are a number of manufacturers who currently offer it. (BMW, for example.)

Re:Old tech is new news? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:14 · Score: 0

The adaptive power steering being fully electric is not yet present in common car models. Hydraulic / mechanic was, even in the 1970s (many Citroen models).
Re:Old tech is new news? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:23 · Score: 0

Volkswagens have had this for several years now...I guess a VW isn't the People's Car anymore...
Re:Old tech is new news? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:34 · Score: 0

The Kia Soul has had steer-by-wire since inception AND allows the driver to change the dynamics of the steering wheel on the fly. In fact, Ford already offered variable adaptive steering as an option on all of their midclass vehicles and up.
I think it's safe to say Dice has killed slashdot.
Re: Old tech is new news? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:59 · Score: 0

Wrong. Ford is changing the actual steering ratio. Kia is just changing how the steering feels.
Re:Old tech is new news? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 07:58 · Score: 2, Interesting

My 1968 Firebird has Variable Ratio steering that was an original option. It works very nicely.
The only problem: you get used to it and when you drive a car without it, it feels like the steering is too quick, twitchy, difficult to control, and you could oversteer at higher speeds.
I think all of these automated safety things are great, but if someone who is used to them then has to drive an older or simpler car, they might cause an accident. I'm not saying we should not have these features; I'm just saying that people need to be aware of the differences.
Re:Old tech is new news? by jcdr · 2014-05-30 09:22 · Score: 1

The Toyota Prius have it at least since the Prius II from 2003. Now that depend how much you think this is a common car model...
Re:Old tech is new news? by tazan · 2014-05-30 20:24 · Score: 1

My 95 Buick station wagon has variable assist power steering, so yeah, I don't see what the excitement is about. It works by using a steering box that varies the ration as you turn and a sensor on the steering column and a variable output pump.
Re:Old tech is new news? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-06-02 09:38 · Score: 0

Variable Ratio != Adaptive Steering. I owned a Pontiac. It has a FIXED variable ratio. This system is adjusting continuously with vehicle speed. Ford isn't the first but it is generally only available today on luxury cars.

IS it more stable, or does it FEEL more stable? by Gothmolly · 2014-05-30 06:08 · Score: 1

I can see this getting ugly quickly.

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Re:IS it more stable, or does it FEEL more stable? by bswarm · 2014-05-30 06:28 · Score: 1

You only need power steering at no/low speeds. Hydraulic Power Steering works all the time (most models) and makes it feel too loose at higher speeds, using electric assist gives power steering at no/low speeds then shuts off at higher speeds which makes the steering feel less sloppy. Example, an old 1968 Ford stationwagon with power steering was easy to steer until hwy speeds then feels like it oversteers way too much.
Re:IS it more stable, or does it FEEL more stable? by gstoddart · 2014-05-30 06:49 · Score: 1

Example, an old 1968 Ford stationwagon with power steering was easy to steer until hwy speeds then feels like it oversteers way too much.
Meh, I don't think that's the fault of the power steering, it was the fault of the fact that the first quarter turn didn't actually do anything.
At least, that was certainly true with my father's cars in the 70's and 80's.
It always felt like the steering inputs were really loosely coupled to the actual steering, and would go from mushy to terrifying in a small increment (which was smaller than the play before which it did absolutely nothing).
The first time I drove my brother's VW Jetta it felt like it was on rails.

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Re:IS it more stable, or does it FEEL more stable? by Idarubicin · 2014-05-30 06:55 · Score: 1

IS it more stable, or does it FEEL more stable?
Yes. Also, yes.
With conventional, mechanically-linked, non-variable steering, if I twitch the wheel at 2 mph while creeping into a parking space, nothing happens. If I twitch the wheel the same amount on the highway at 60 mph, I lurch sickeningly across a couple of lanes of traffic.
A sensible system would allow me to make moderately-sized inputs at whatever speed I'm travelling, and convert those to appropriate adjustments of the wheels of the car: big deflections of my tires with lots of power assist when I'm parallel parking, tiny deflections when I'm changing lanes on the highway.

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~Idarubicin
Re:IS it more stable, or does it FEEL more stable? by Kozar_The_Malignant · 2014-05-30 07:20 · Score: 2

My girlfriend's 1966 Dodge Dart had power steering and was 7.5 turns lock to lock compared to my 1959 TR3 with no power steering and 2.5 turns lock to lock. Your description of the steering going from mushy to terrifying certainly applied to that Dodge. As you say, the TR3 felt like it was on rails.

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Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Re:IS it more stable, or does it FEEL more stable? by Reziac · 2014-05-31 08:38 · Score: 1

"...the first quarter turn didn't actually do anything."
Which usually means the bushings are shot. 1/8 inch or so of shrinkage in old rubber bushings is roughly 1/4th turn of the wheel. -- When we replaced bushings in my old truck ('78 Ford), it went from that same 1/4-turn-does-nothing to completely like-new tight again.

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~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?

Just recalled the last one.... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:09 · Score: 0

They just recalled their last attempt at changing the steering.

EPAS is already recalled and it just came out in the newer cars.

Now while that attempt (easier) was recalled, they now have their sights set even higher (harder) yet they couldn't seem to get the first one right.

Perhaps they should slow down and clear out all the recalls before trying to innovate again. Building upon a bad foundation just leads to more cruft in the way of fixing the foundation.

News? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:10 · Score: 0

It's a system that most European car makers switched to years ago.

Re:News? by RJFerret · 2014-05-30 06:35 · Score: 1

And my 2001 Honda had it.
Re:News? by LanceUppercut · 2014-05-30 06:55 · Score: 2

False. Electric boosters ("power steering") systems have been quite widely used for a while already. However, in this case they are talking about something totally different: ratio-changing and self-steering systems. So far only Honda used it in Japanese market and BMW used exactly the same system (as an optional feature) everywhere. Lexus also has its own a ratio-changing system, implemented differently. Overall, such systems are rather rare and typically offered as an option. It is not correct to say that anyone "switched" to anything like that.

Bleh by m.dillon · 2014-05-30 06:15 · Score: 3, Insightful

Sounds idiotic to me. Non-linear steering is great, but any sort of dynamic/adaptive steering that changes according to conditions is stupid beyond belief and will cause an endless stream of accidents because the driver can no longer predict how the car will react to similar steering motions.

-Matt

Re:Bleh by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:31 · Score: 0

It depends on the settings, I guess they won't make it feel too different.
What scares me about these newfangled post-1970 cars and their hydraulic/electronic steering is that once you are out of the parameters that the system can handle, your docile and agile beast becomes one ugly 2 tons coffin that you can't take back into control. I'd rather keep a lighter thing that skids at 25mph if you are not careful, but that behaves linearly. Plus, new car exhaust sounds are ugly!
Re:Bleh by jratcliffe · 2014-05-30 06:33 · Score: 1

Sounds idiotic to me. Non-linear steering is great, but any sort of dynamic/adaptive steering that changes according to conditions is stupid beyond belief and will cause an endless stream of accidents because the driver can no longer predict how the car will react to similar steering motions.
-Matt
Wow, that's great insight. Glad you're around to lend your experience to those idiots at BMW and Mercedes, who clearly haven't thought of this when deploying the technology.
Re:Bleh by RJFerret · 2014-05-30 06:38 · Score: 2

I loved it, felt like manual rack and pinion at high speed, felt similar to hydraulic power steering at low speed but far smoother. Humans are dynamic/adaptive creatures, and it doesn't feel any different at different speeds--if you didn't know it was an adaptive electronic system, you'd have no clue. Congrats Ford on catching up to what Honda was doing a decade and half ago.
Re:Bleh by funwithBSD · 2014-05-30 06:40 · Score: 1

I will stick with the very direct steering input of my motorcycles.

--
Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
Re:Bleh by wagnerrp · 2014-05-30 06:42 · Score: 1

The steering itself is not adaptive. Only the feel from the steering wheel is adaptive. You will have less power assist at higher speeds. Manufacturers have been doing this with hydraulic power steering for a long time.
Re:Bleh by LanceUppercut · 2014-05-30 06:57 · Score: 2

Firstly, BMW cars with AS systems in them have notoriously bad steering feel. Secondly, BMW has abandoned AS in favor of ordinary electric boosters. So, it looks like at least someone at BMW decided that this tech is not gonna fly.
Re:Bleh by sexconker · 2014-05-30 08:03 · Score: 2

Sounds idiotic to me. Non-linear steering is great, but any sort of dynamic/adaptive steering that changes according to conditions is stupid beyond belief and will cause an endless stream of accidents because the driver can no longer predict how the car will react to similar steering motions.
-Matt
Wow, that's great insight. Glad you're around to lend your experience to those idiots at BMW and Mercedes, who clearly haven't thought of this when deploying the technology.
Do you find it difficult to look at your Samsung Gear smart watch when wearing the 3D glasses for your TV? Oh, and what's your wifi SSID? I thought it was "COOLBOX" but that's just your smart fridge.
HINT: Companies pursue and push out tons of tech and features that are shit.
Re:Bleh by nospam007 · 2014-05-30 09:06 · Score: 2

"Sounds idiotic to me. Non-linear steering is great, but any sort of dynamic/adaptive steering that changes according to conditions is stupid beyond belief and will cause an endless stream of accidents because the driver can no longer predict how the car will react to similar steering motions."
Only for companies that are unable to create a working ignition switch.
Re:Bleh by strikethree · 2014-05-30 14:38 · Score: 1

Sounds idiotic to me. Non-linear steering is great, but any sort of dynamic/adaptive steering that changes according to conditions is stupid beyond belief and will cause an endless stream of accidents because the driver can no longer predict how the car will react to similar steering motions.
I used to think like you do. Driving American made cars is what made me think that way. Drive a high end Mercedes at some point to see what adaptive steering is REALLY like. You can drive at 150 miles per hour and the steering feels like it does at 40 miles per hour. Same at 180 miles per hour.
At no time does it ever act "weird". What it does do is make the steering feel the same no matter what the conditions, which actually makes the vehicle much easier to control. I have driven an SL 65 AMG (and a lot of other high end cars) at Pikes Peak International Raceway and it handled beautifully in the high speed and low speed turns. It turns as you would intuitively expect, which is actually different than a linear steering device.
Really, it is a great thing; however, this specific article is talking about it being in an American made vehicle... which means your fears are reasonable. The bean counters will never allow the engineers to actually test it and fine tune it. It will be garbage.
By the way, thanks for DICE. Dillon's Integrated C Environment is what I used to learn programming in C on my Amiga. I saved up for half a year (iirc) to be able to buy it from you (I was extremely poor at the time).

--
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
Re:Bleh by Raenex · 2014-05-31 13:32 · Score: 1

Right, because motorcycles are such safe vehicles to ride.
Re:Bleh by Xest · 2014-06-01 20:32 · Score: 1

Why wouldn't he be more insightful? It's not like these people always get it right.
Each time you get a new bit of automation you lose control in a fringe case. I learnt this the hard way with ABS breaks that automatically pump the break to try and give you more control when breaking hard. Problem is, on ice, that's fucking useless, so I ended up sliding long after I'd have stopped without ABS right out into a junction on a slight downhill and had my car written off. ABS was the whole reason this happened - the pumping motion meant the wheels were still turning periodically when all I wanted to do was stop.
I now make sure any car I buy lets me turn ABS off, so I can do so in icey conditions, because it'd be great if I ever needed it (I can't say I ever have because I drive such that I never need to break that hard) but when I didn't need it, and in fact, needed it to not exist in my car at all, it resulted in a nasty crash.
So no automation is not always a good thing. Besides, if you've ever seen a BMW trying to drive in snowy/icy conditions you'd also see the stupidity of your comment there too. Last time we had a really bad winter in the UK back in 2010 the craze of having BMW's became quite humorous as at the bottom of every hill was about 5 BMW One series, because they just couldn't get up the hills unlike just about every other cheaper car.
Fact is whilst automation often makes driving in normal conditions much better, it always results in loss of control is non-normal conditions, when you really need that control the most. You're effectively gaining easier driving 99.9% of the time, for the risk of being in an accident or stranded the remaining 1% of the time. I'm not convinced it's worth it, the driving isn't so much more easy that the increased risk of being put in a life threatening situation the 0.1% of the time the weather is really bad is worth it. I'd rather my car just get me home safely when the weather is bad even if it is just only ever so slightly less pleasureful to drive it the rest of the time.
All BMW and Mercedes know how to do is sell cars. That doesn't mean the cars are any good - BMW and Mercedes are also right at the bottom of the pile in terms of reliability and cost of repairs only ever so slightly above Jaguars. It's easy to sell a car in the summer when everyone's looking for one by giving people a pleasure to drive, but most are kicking themselves when they get the repair bill when it breaks down and spend their entire winters repeatedly getting stranded.

No thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:21 · Score: 0

I like my car as is. 16 years old and still going strong. And of course not an American car. You'd have to be insane to buy an American car. American made = junk.

Re:No thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:28 · Score: 0

You'd have to be a douchebag for judging the mental state of people based simply on the automobile they drive(or the country it was made in for that matter).
Besides you're probably driving a walkmobile anyways. You know a car that makes your friends go, nah man I'd rather walk than be seen in your piece of shit hooptie ride.

Old tech for Ford by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 06:27 · Score: 0

My 1993 Lincoln Mark VIII had this type of steering system. Not exactly new tech.

Considering the recent recalls... by cjjjer · 2014-05-30 06:39 · Score: 2

Ford recall affects Ford Escape and Mercury models from 2008 through 2011 model years and some 2011-2013 Ford Explorer models. The Ford recall was made due to issues with electric power steering systems.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2014/0530/Ford-recall-includes-914-000-Escape-Explorer-SUVs-with-power-steering-issue

Really Ford?

I have a ford by Charliemopps · 2014-05-30 06:48 · Score: 3, Interesting

I have a ford with adaptive steering... You can barely tell its there. The basic goal is to give you lots of help while the car is stationary or moving slow... but make it harder to jerk the wheel when doing 80. Back in the 80s they way over did power steering so you had basically no road feel at all and if someone even bumped the wheel while you were on the freeway it could send you into a spin or cause you to roll. So they cut back on the amount of "help" power steering provided.

But my truck was recalled yesterday because faults in the system could cause power steering to fail and lead to an accident. They've had 7 confirmed accidents due to this out of some 800,000 vehicles sold.

Ironic this story pops up a day after a recall for the very feature being advertised. lol

Re:I have a ford by LanceUppercut · 2014-05-30 07:44 · Score: 4, Informative

No, you don't have "a Ford with adaptive steering". No Ford was ever made with the feature in question. Ford is just thinking about introducing it. You have a Ford with variable amount of steering boost. This has been around forever, even in hydraulic systems. But this is not adaptive steering discussed here. Adaptive steering requires variable steering ratio. Your Ford does not have variable steering ratio.
Re:I have a ford by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 07:52 · Score: 0

well i like FORD they always have new ideas .. maybe many ppl have other opinion on that subject but it's really great company
please visit my website for free sharing servers http://www.dz-sat.com/

Friends don't let friends drive Fords.... by Dega704 · 2014-05-30 06:50 · Score: 0

I'll be excited about this when a company besides Ford does it. Yeah, I admit it; I am biased. I put aside said bias and bought a used Taurus once. It's transmission promptly died on me.

Re:Friends don't let friends drive Fords.... by afidel · 2014-05-30 07:27 · Score: 2

And I had 4 Taurus/Sables that I bought used and drove to over 225k miles each, so long as you got the Duratec 3.0 those cars were bulletproof. The only reason I went away from them is that I wanted AWD and better gas mileage.

--
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.

First introduced by Honda by LanceUppercut · 2014-05-30 06:50 · Score: 2

This system was first introduced by Honda in the their JDM S2000. It was later copied by BMW as their "Active Steering" system and offered in USA in 5-series and 3-series cars. Note that such systems effectively break the solid link between the steering wheel and the steering rack. There were a number of reports of Active Steering failures in 3-series BMW E9x cars. BMW abandoned the system for in new 3-series, replacing of with ordinary electric booster without ratio-changing ability.

Re:First introduced by Honda by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 09:27 · Score: 0

Since you seem more informed than many on this thread, do you know how a variable ratio really behaves?
If I turn the steering wheel to a certain angle at speed and then brake down to a low speed, does the rack keep moving, effectively changing my turning radius with no change in steering wheel angle? Would I effectively drive down a spiral path as I slowed to a stop? This seems bizarre, but I see no other way to preserve basic details such as there being a dead center steering wheel position that puts the rack dead center no matter what kind of driving I've been doing...
And what about things like counter-steering in a skid? How are you supposed to do that if the angle of the rack can change relative to the angle of the steering wheel?
Re:First introduced by Honda by strikethree · 2014-05-30 14:40 · Score: 1

Mercedes has it. My 2004 E55 AMG has it.

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"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen

More susceptible to SW/electrical falures by LanceUppercut · 2014-05-30 07:09 · Score: 1

Despite the fact that such systems break the sold mechanical link between the steering wheel and the steering rack, they are normally rather well protected from mechanical failures. At least Honda's and BMW's systems will normally "fuse" steering shaft in case of any mechanical component disintegration, restoring the classic solid steering link. However, such systems are very susceptible to software failures and simple electrical failures (like water getting into electronics), when the systems "gets a mind of its own" and begins to steer the car overriding driver's input. There is an epic thread on e90post (now sanitized) about consequences of such failure in a E92 car http://www.e90post.com/forums/...

I dislike electric power steering by sinij · 2014-05-30 07:12 · Score: 2

As a car guy, I prefer hydraulic power steering. Electric implementations so far leave you too isolated from the road (both input and output, or feedback are important when handling car). It is also unclear how these new systems will age or if they will fail gracefully.

Re:I dislike electric power steering by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 09:09 · Score: 0

I generally agree but the RX8's steering is fabulous.
Re: I dislike electric power steering by Scowler · 2014-05-30 09:39 · Score: 1

I've had a couple of cars suffer hydraulic power steering failures in rather inconvenient far out locations. I don't know how reliable electric power steering is, but the competition has set the bar rather low.
Re:I dislike electric power steering by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 11:24 · Score: 0

A lot of recent Mazdas (definitely the RX8 and at least the first and second generation 3) don't use a pure electric power steering system. They have a traditional hydraulic power steering pump that's connected to an electric motor rather than an accessory pulley attached to the engine. This way you get many of the advantages of an electric system (no parasitic loss when not turning the wheel and variable assist) with the excellent feel of a traditional hydraulic system. I haven't driven any of the recent high end cars (BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc) that have pure electric power steering, but every other car I've driven with that sort of system (late model Corollas, a Hyundai, a Peugeot, and an older Audi A3) had absolutely terrible steering.
Re:I dislike electric power steering by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 12:36 · Score: 0

I can see why it's not practical for the elderly and such, but I actually prefer no power steering at all. I'm not sure if they changed it, but the Lotus Elise came that way and Lotus are known for having some of the best driver's cars around.
Re:I dislike electric power steering by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 15:28 · Score: 0

This exactly.
People may not know how to express it in words or formulas, but most people have an innate sense of the laws of physics and motion. Fucking with the way people sense and react to these subtle cues is going to cause bad drivers to become even worse.
I've driven a few vehicles with electric steering and they all suck for the very reason that they fuck with these subtle interactions between me and the machine. I don't want my car trying to think for me, I want it to follow my instructions in a reliable, constant, and fully predictable manner.
People designing crap like this need to understand that not all progress is forward progress.
Re:I dislike electric power steering by Waccoon · 2014-05-30 19:21 · Score: 1

I just bought a 2015 Subaru WRX with electric steering, and the feel is pretty incredible. Way better and gives much more feedback than my old 2005 WRX with hydraulic steering. People are still saying good things about the electric steering in the Subaru BRZ, too.
It wasn't long ago that all American cars were very soft and all drove like boats. Whether the technology works or not has little to do with the mechanics and more to do with the tuning and manufacturer's priorities. Thankfully, Ford has shaped up a lot since the 2008 economic crash,and they'll probably do it well. I'm not sure how GM and Chrysler would fare.
Re: I dislike electric power steering by sinij · 2014-06-02 01:56 · Score: 1

I disagree with this. Power steering gives you plenty of warning before it fails. It usually leaks oil for YEARS, then produces audible NOISE ether from hydraulics or belt slipping.

Sure, you can overlook all these signs, but for anyone paying attention these failures are not sudden. If anything, typical hydraulic power steering fails too gracefully, so people keep using it in a failed state.

Too late. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 07:18 · Score: 0

They are behind the times. This was done about 20 years ago and was called "Driver assisted stearing".

I absolutely hated it. I got use to apply a specific amount of preasure on a wheel as I went around a mountain road, then the car decided to add or subtract to that required preasure, and as a result I either over corrected or under corrected. Damn near got into a couple of wrecks.

Re:Old Tech! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 07:23 · Score: 2, Informative

Very old news.
I'm not sure about the US, but Euro and Asian car makers have been using similar electric power steering systems (assisted by a motor in the steering column or steering rack) since the early 2000's.

Also... Electric power steering systems are NOT fly by wire. A physical link still remains between the steering wheel and wheels. The EPS system could loose power or malfunction and you would still be able to steer ok.

(I've just retrofitted EPS from a 2006 Toyota RAV4 into a 1990 Toyota Celica)

PC vs Console Drivers by Kamiza+Ikioi · 2014-05-30 07:32 · Score: 1

Yeah, and since when does a car have auto-aim? You call that realistic driving? Any driver with a keyboard and mouse would beat the crap a console joystick driver!

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I8-D

Ford is bringing it to the masses? by JohnNemesh · 2014-05-30 07:34 · Score: 1

Huh, I just bought a 2014 Kia Soul this weekend with this very feature. Ford is a day late and a dollar (or $5000) short.

No thanks by nurb432 · 2014-05-30 07:45 · Score: 1

Does anyone sell a real car anymore, and not a rolling computer? If not, sounds like there is a market ripe for the picking.

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----

$5 by sehlat · 2014-05-30 07:45 · Score: 1, Insightful

Where is Ford going to save the five dollars THIS time?

Anybody remember the original Pinto, also remembered as a molotov cocktail if struck from the rear? Ford was warned by their engineers that in such collisions, some of the drivers would end up burned alive. Cost to fix: $5 per vehicle. Ford chose the cheaper alternative of paying off lawsuits, without making a serious dent in the Pinto's bottom line.

So I ask again, where will they save money to kill their customers THIS time?

Re:$5 by mythosaz · 2014-05-30 08:25 · Score: 1

Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
Narrator: You wouldn't believe.
Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for?
Narrator: A major one.
Re:$5 by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 08:29 · Score: 0

Where is Ford going to save the five dollars THIS time?
Anybody remember the original Pinto, also remembered as a molotov cocktail if struck from the rear? Ford was warned by their engineers that in such collisions, some of the drivers would end up burned alive. Cost to fix: $5 per vehicle. Ford chose the cheaper alternative of paying off lawsuits, without making a serious dent in the Pinto's bottom line.
So I ask again, where will they save money to kill their customers THIS time?
No, I don't remember the Pinto. It was way before my time.
I don't find the logic of comparing the Pinto too today's ford.
If you really want to look bring up dirt about the past, perhaps you should look at German automakers during WWII.

Re:Old Tech! by sexconker · 2014-05-30 07:54 · Score: 1

Very old news.
I'm not sure about the US, but Euro and Asian car makers have been using similar electric power steering systems (assisted by a motor in the steering column or steering rack) since the early 2000's.

Also... Electric power steering systems are NOT fly by wire. A physical link still remains between the steering wheel and wheels. The EPS system could loose power or malfunction and you would still be able to steer ok.

(I've just retrofitted EPS from a 2006 Toyota RAV4 into a 1990 Toyota Celica)

What if it malfunctions and actively fights against you?

Power everything! by Drunkulus · 2014-05-30 08:23 · Score: 1

Excellent. We'll remove any physical effort required to drive a car, and the entire country will gain weight as a result. Now we have a huge market for exercise machines.

Re:Power everything! by feufeu · 2014-05-30 08:39 · Score: 1

If you depend on driving a car to stay in shape either you are a professional rallye driver or the guy who spends endless time delivering stuff with a crappy old truck on winding backcountry roads. For the rest of us it won't make much of a difference IMHO...
Re:Power everything! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 09:33 · Score: 0

Power steering is just one example.
"modern technology has made us two thirds less active than we were.
45 minutes on the treadmill or evening class in Pilates does not make up for the huge change in lifestyle over the last 50 years.
One of the reasons is our lifestyles involve much less physical activity than they used to thanks to cars, washing machines, dishwashers, supermarkets and the internet.
People are forced to make a more concerted effort to fit exercise into their lives by joining a gym, going to exercise classes or using fitness videos at home. "
Labor saving devices and obesity

Re:Does anyone sell a real car anymore by DocSavage64109 · 2014-05-30 08:46 · Score: 1

Well, there are plenty of kit cars you can buy that are quite primitive, but they seem to cost much more than a conventional mass produced car.

Re:Old Tech! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 09:00 · Score: 2, Informative

What if it malfunctions and actively fights against you?

Read IEC 61508 and ISO 26262
The standard documents can be purchased from whatever organization is responsible for standardization in you country.
They cover all the "What if contrived example" that you will find people posting on Slashdot.

Ford bringing this to the masses... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 09:06 · Score: 0

... about ten years after every small car in Europe. Again. Well done Ford!

Re:Does anyone sell a real car anymore by nurb432 · 2014-05-30 09:10 · Score: 1

Sure, you could build something 100% from scratch and even skip the 'kits', or just buy an older car that was pre-perversion in age, but i was thinking along the lines of a current day mass produced vehicle.

I have not seen one, but that didn't mean it does not exist.

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---- Booth was a patriot ----

More lost to mechanical/electronics malfunction by perpenso · 2014-05-30 10:01 · Score: 1

They also had people shooting at them...

In theory but not in practice. One of the earliest, if not the first widely deployed fly-by-wire, was the F-16. The number of F-16s lost to enemy action was very small compared to those lost due to mechanical/electronics malfunction.

Yes ejection seats predate fly-by-wire but they certainly made fly-by-wire early adoption a lot easier.

Ugh, no thanks by FuzzNugget · 2014-05-30 10:18 · Score: 1

I like my car interfaces the same way I like my computer interfaces: just do exactly what the fuck I tell it to.

Prius? by pbjones · 2014-05-30 11:56 · Score: 1

It's on my ten year old Prius, what next? Electric air con compressor? Oops, got that too...

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There was an unknown error in the submission.

Available on a Ferrari now by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 12:43 · Score: 0

Ford is making it cheaper, not innovating. Just sayin....

Honda CRZ by Tekoneiric · 2014-05-30 17:37 · Score: 1

The Honda CRZ's steering changes depending on the drive mode selection. In sport mode it gets tighter for better handling, in normal and econ it has a soft feel to it.

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*It's not what you can do for the Dark Side but what the Dark Side can do for you!*

JCVD, here we come! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-30 21:33 · Score: 0

Bringing adaptive steering to the masses... Does it mean we'll soon see loads of people doing splits between cars while they are driving backward?

Not that new by Anonymous Coward · 2014-06-02 09:14 · Score: 0

my 2014 Mazda CX-5 has this standard.

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Ford's Bringing Adaptive Steering To the Masses

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