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Parents Mobilize Against States' Student Data Mining

theodp writes 'Politico reports that parents have mobilized into an unexpected political force to fight the data mining of their children, catapulting student privacy to prominence in statehouses. Having already torpedoed the $100 million, Bill Gates-funded inBloom database project, which could have made it easier for schools to share confidential student records with private companies, the amateur activists are now rallying against another perceived threat: huge state databases being built to track children for more than two decades, from as early as infancy through the start of their careers. "The Education Department," writes Stephanie Simon, "lists hundreds of questions that it urges states to answer about each child in the public school system: Did she make friends easily as a toddler? Was he disciplined for fighting as a teen? Did he take geometry? Does she suffer from mental illness? Did he go to college? Did he graduate? How much does he earn?" Leonie Haimson, a NY mother who is organizing a national Parent Coalition for Student Privacy says, "Every parent I've talked to has been horrified. We just don't want our kids tracked from cradle to grave." For their part, ed tech entrepreneurs and school reformers are both bewildered by and anxious about the backlash — and struggling to craft a response, having assumed parents would support their vision: to mine vast quantities of data for insights into what's working, and what's not, for individual students and for the education system as a whole. "People took for granted that parents would understand [the benefits], that it was self-evident," said Michael Horn, a co-founder an education think tank."

36 of 139 comments (clear)

  1. Good by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Facebook's evil laughter as their monopoly on distributing childrens' personal information becomes secure from local governments inadvertent competition. Elsewhere a "marketing expert" begins the process to pony up an extra half-cent per human being whose privacy is permanently and irrevocably destroyed.

    1. Re:Good by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Maybe it does. We haven't collectively decided to become an open society, though. So really all that's really happening is that people and their personal lives are being attacked from multiple directions.

      I think if we did decide to become a less private and personal culture, it wouldn't be a terrible dystopia, but that's sure as hell not my decision to make on the behalf of others. The default understood social contract of the US is one of separate and distinct personal and public lives.

    2. Re:Good by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Damn right it's good. It's high time parents started ripping out the Surveillance State infrastructure by the roots before their kids find themselves in a world without privacy.

      There's no issue more important than this. Ubiquitous surveillance impacts negatively on every other important issue. Economy? You will never have broad-based prosperity in a surveillance state. Health care? It's obvious. Education. Read TFA.

      The explosion of intrusion over the past decade has completely transformed me politically. We've got individual privacy eroding at an accelerated pace and institutional secrecy doing the same. That's a really bad trend.

      There can be no free society among people who are being watched.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:Good by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      There can be no free society among people who are being watched.

      I'd contest that in theory, but with the current ability we have to build in protections into a government against abuse, in practice it's absolutely true.

      I just also think that the corporate interests at play here cause substantial harm too.

    4. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Data mining of children is sooooo wrong.
      These gov's and corp's wish to know, indoctrinate and own your souls into a lifetime of servitude as young as they can possibly get you. FUCK THAT!!!
      REVOLT NOW you stupid sheeple!!!

    5. Re:Good by knightghost · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Parents that I know aren't bothered that information is being gathered, but what is being gathered, who uses it, and how they use it. "Did he/she make friends in 1st grade" is not something you want dragging around decades later. We've already had laws passed banning the use of DNA for excluding people - now people are revolting against their digital DNA running into the same abuses. Maybe we should start calling it "eDNA" as a comparison that people understand.

    6. Re:Good by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

      The feedback loop can be closer than 'data' being gathered by giant bureaucracies and then directives sent down to the teachers in the schools. For instance, good teachers can pay attention to the specific children they are charged with teaching. Which happens a lot, let's not cut down the good effort our teachers make. The feedback loop should be at a micro scale, not a macro scale. Politicians shouldn't be in the loop at all, unless by 'politicians' it is meant elected School Board Members.

    7. Re:Good by RobinH · · Score: 2

      The idea of having an "open" society is that you know what I'm doing, I know what you're doing, and I know what the president or prime minister is doing and what Mark Zuckerberg is doing, etc. The way things are going is *not* towards this kind of open society. Just because Facebook knows a ton of stuff and sells it to the government doesn't mean we have an open society. Secret surveillance is not open.

      --
      "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
    8. Re:Good by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      The main change is in my priorities. I believed that the first priority was to strengthen the middle class, get more bargaining power to workers and get back to broad-based prosperity of the 1950s and '60s.

      I still want to see that but now there's nothing more important than rolling back the surveillance state. Public and private. All the other social problems can never improve if we have eroded civil rights.

      Surveillance (public OR private, I have to keep emphasizing that) is a tool of upward redistribution of wealth. It is a tool of further consolidation of power, both in the hands of government and in the hands of a very few private corporations.

      Surveillance has exploded way faster than I expected it would. I believe we only have a small window of opportunity to roll it back, and it's essential to having anything like a free society that we start doing so immediately.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  2. Not Anticipated by Great+Big+Bird · · Score: 2

    Is it possible they were so high in their walled garden that they couldn't perceive or predict possible backlash?

    1. Re:Not Anticipated by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, it's just that privatization has become incredibly normalized, and the idea of pushing out government duties to contractors(and the potential abuse that entails) is second nature nowadays. If you honestly think this is the only time student records got entered into a third party system without consideration of the effects, I've got some minor's personal data to sell you.

    2. Re:Not Anticipated by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 5, Insightful

      More likely they were just high. It's ridiculous to think that what works for kids in Florida works for kids in Hawaii, or what works for kids in Arizona works for kids in New York. This kind of data is just meant for tracking, it wouldn't be used to improve a thing.

      That's why they include location data.

      Really: the goals are pretty good -- use machine learning to get the correlations instead of depending on the all-too-fallible "common sense". The problem is, the goals and the implementation are only loosely related. The researchers are trying to do the right thing, but in the process they're creating a database that can be abused intentionally or inadvertently for other goals. There's a reason HIPAA exists; this system would not just do an end-run around HIPAA, it would do much more. This data would become one of the most valuable assets to many corporations and government agencies in the US (and beyond).

  3. The benefits are obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The benefits are indeed obvious, as long as you trust the people holding the data....

    1. Re:The benefits are obvious by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are two ways for this not to be a disaster, and we can't make up our minds about what we want:

      1. Information wants to be free and we live lives where everyone can find out whatever they want about us, and we collectively use that to hold those in power responsible too.
      2. We find a way to secure and limit the availability of data both to regular people and powerful people.

      As it stands we're on a course where information inflates a information imbalance that exacerbates a power imbalance that already exists.

    2. Re:The benefits are obvious by BabaChazz · · Score: 2

      Exactly. There are very real benefits to this program, and if I felt that I could trust the people putting it together to keep the information private, I'd be all for it. The thing is, there is nobody I can trust with this sort of information about my children except me and their mother.

    3. Re:The benefits are obvious by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Information wants to be free" is incredibly misused.

      If I learn something, chances are I want to spread that information to others. The number of YouTube instructional videos for which there is no conceivable audience is a testament to that. Also, the number of mis-informative videos is likewise a testament.

      If I invent something e.g. patentable, I may not be able to share the details with people, but I am probably going to tell people I have a patent. It's part of the "I would like to tell you but I can't so I'll tell you I know something" sort of mentality. Learn a secret? Either you tell someone the secret, or you tell them you have a secret.

      Learning, knowledge, and facts want to be free. Quotable movie lines, which summarize and in part relive the experience, want to be free. Shocking or unusual details want to be free, such as that celebrity who showed up nearly nude to that event.

      Copyrighted works don't want to be free, and big data certainly does not want to be free - if it even wants to be collected in the first place. There are reasons why "Information wants to be free" might be applicable to copyright cases - especially when the prosecution thinks copyright applies, but it really doesn't. Same for patents et. al.

      In summation, "Information wants to be free" does not belong in an argument about collecting data on children. Not for people in general for that matter, but especially not for children.

      So yes, we can make up our minds. Uninformed parents have seen what's wrong with this, and have taken action. They still use FaceBook, web mail, cell phones with location data turned on, and all sorts of ridiculous privacy invading tools and apps and everything else, but they aren't going to allow this. "We", defined by enough people to make a difference, as opposed to the slashdot audience that makes up fractions of a percent, have made up our minds.

      I don't disagree with your last sentence. But it stands without needing support by the rest of your post.

  4. 2 Decades by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3, Informative

    huge state databases being built to track children for more than two decades, from as early as infancy through the start of their careers

    2 decades? Try the rest of their lives.

    Get 'em young, make 'em yours before they learn what "dissent" means.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    1. Re:2 Decades by nbauman · · Score: 5, Informative

      Please, in spite of how much worse some things have gotten, the respect for dissent in the US has expanded, no contracted.

      I'm not sure about that. Daniel Ellsberg went free. Bradley Manning went to jail. Snowden and Assange have arrest warrants out for him.

      Back in the 1950s, the FBI identified spies, like Stephen Hall, that they decided not to prosecute, because in court the accused had a right to hear the evidence against him under the Fifth Amendment, and the FBI decided it wasn't worth having their sources and methods disclosed.

      Now, they prosecute somebody, and simply say that the defendant doesn't have a right to hear the evidence against him, and the Constitution doesn't apply.

    2. Re:2 Decades by blackiner · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Now, they prosecute somebody, and simply say that the defendant doesn't have a right to hear the evidence against him, and the Constitution doesn't apply.

      Oh it is worse than that. Nowadays they send in US Marshals to destroy evidence so that the courts do not even get a chance to deny access to the evidence.

  5. Idiots... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Anyone who thought that the virtues of this scheme would be 'self-evident' must be a real pleasure to deal with... I'm just curious whether it's the cluelessness or the arrogance that you notice first.

    1. Re:Idiots... by pla · · Score: 2

      Anyone who thought that the virtues of this scheme would be 'self-evident' must be a real pleasure to deal with.

      In fairness, the virtues do sound self-evident - If you have the goal of implementing a totalitarian regime on the 50 year horizon. You can slowly figure out who supports you, who won't care, and who will actively mobilize against you... And then just find some pretense to lock the latter group up for the majority of their adult life.

      Now, the stated goals? Not even realistic. Although aggregating at a larger scale might tease out a few hints, individual school districts and even whole states have already had that level of detail available for decades, and yet consistently deny the single most useful finding we have - Smaller class sizes mean better outcomes. If even remotely serious, this just means they have their fingers crossed that somehow, they'll find a way to prove that every student does best when we completely eliminate teachers and physical school buildings, and instead give out iPads that record everything that happens in the kids' homes.

    2. Re:Idiots... by pla · · Score: 2

      If you insist that this level of detail has been widely available for decades outside of a few progressive areas, you are positively psychotic, living in a made up world.

      Instead of calling me crazy, how about you point me to the mind-blowing success those few progressive areas have experienced directly as a result of their utopian panopticons?


      The virtues are self-evident. And if they are not self-evident, you are not informed enough to have an opinion. The negatives are not self-evident, but parents have nevertheless found them.

      I have to ask - How did you steel yourself against the death cries of the English language when you twisted "self evident" to mean something that requires an informed perspective, in the same breath that you would deny that phrase to the observations of the masses? Brilliant!


      The focus in on individual outcomes.

      Ah, and we get to one plausible non-Orwellian motivation here... The brightest kids, the ones that become the next Einstein or Fuller, already tend to self-serve in a deficient educational environment. Thus, your focus on "individual outcomes" means yet another way we can spend a quarter of a million per year per tod to teach them how to tie their shoes and wipe their own asses by grade 12. Thanks, but I'd take a marginally better educated general population over that any day.

    3. Re:Idiots... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      I'm not actually thinking of the 'indoctrination and control' outcome (if anything, concerned parents are usually the ones who want Junior to absorb as many facts as his little head can hold, so he can get into a good college and Succeed). I'm thinking more of the "it's usually easier to game the metrics than it is to improve what they are trying to measure" problem.

      Consider the example of "The Texas Miracle" in education that was a big thing ~2000: they went with a (theoretically plausible and benign) collection of data-driven and performance driven educational reform strategies and Hooray! results improved on all manner of metrics, success. Except that, on closer inspection, most of the reform efforts had simply gone into cooking the books more creatively, getting problem students out before they took any tests that couldn't be faked, and so on. At best, simply an increase in dishonesty overhead. At worst, actively perverse incentives.

      You also have the example of something like medicine, where the perverse incentives surrounding better data are in plain sight: from a research and treatment perspective, better population data and case history data are an obvious win; but making sure that you don't end up having to deal with the real sickies is even better for your numbers(and costs) than more efficiently dealing with them is. Yes, we try to ban this; but bans that run counter to incentives are a bit of an uphill battle.

      Finally, we have the general historical example of mission creep. You create a database that juicy and it is going absolutely nowhere, which gives assorted interested parties more or less unlimited time to chisel away at any initial restrictions on its use. That's hardly paranoia, just what happens to every body of data interesting enough to be worth collecting.

  6. Lack of Trust by dave562 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Every educator that I have known has acted with positive intent and a genuine desire to make the lives of future generations better. People do not go into education, especially in public schools, because they want to get rich or amass influence and personal power. They do so because they are gluttons for punishment and believe that it is their duty as human beings to make the world a better place.

    As a society, we see our data being used against us. Where as the educators are trying to track the effectiveness of their programs, citizens are fearful of the data being mined for nefarious purposes. Some things that come to mind are, increased healthcare premiums / denial of coverage. Denied job opportunities due to invasive background screening. I am sure that the concerns that people have are numerous.

    The other side of the equation is compelling though. If the educators are gathering data that showing people who failed or never took geometry end up making 50% less more than students who do pass geometry, they will more than likely look to tailor the curriculum to help students develop the skills and abilities required to pass geometry.

    The other issue is monetization of data. Nobody wants to be a product, especially if they are not receiving any benefits. To use the geometry example above, if the data sets are being mined to extrapolate data like, "Students who pass geometry are 50% more likely to purchase a luxury automobile." and that data is then sold to marketers to target Facebook advertising, people are going to be understandably upset.

    It all comes down to trust. Even if the educators can prove that their intentions are pure, what about the third parties they engage? What if the third party is initially pure, but then they go bankrupt and the personal data is sold as part of the liquidation of the company? Who is going to control what the fourth party does with it?

    1. Re:Lack of Trust by x0ra · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you realize that everybody does not share your belief that your child should make as much money as possible, but instead, do what they like. There is other metric than "money" to measure "success". If you are skilled for music and enjoy it, even if you make 50% less than a pure breed mathematician, you are still doing what you like. And you give no crap to geometry, or calculus.

      Moreover, all teacher are not skilled the same way. I never understood anything in my bachelor linear algebra course for months. The teacher was utterly incompetent. A year after that, I read the book about AES, with an introduction to linear algebra, and I learnt more in a few page read in the library, than in months listening to the teacher...

      Finally, the government isn't pure. I'd not be surprised to see the following happening:
      [at an FFL dealer:]
      John Doe: Hi, I'd like to buy this firearm
      Vendor: Sure, sir, let me run the background check...
      [time passes]
      Vendor: Sorry, sir. The system has found out you fought a younger boy when you were 13, your background check failed. Please wait for the local LEO to come proceed to your arrest."
      [/p]

    2. Re:Lack of Trust by fermion · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Educational research is profoundly flawed, and often reflected the biases of the researchers. Most education are humanities people, without the decades of training in the scientific process and statistics. Some school districts expect adolescents to begin school at before 8 am, even though real research indicates that adolescents do not function as well as adolescents at that hour. A decade ago educators started taking about how brain research could help them, even though conferences on the subject were uniformly saying that brain science was no where near at a level to make this so. In fact a recent study of Lumonsity showed that transference was almost non existent for users of the site.

      This is not to say that educators and educational researches are incompetent. It is just that the standards of research are often not as high. Research standards are, as they should be, focused on protecting the student. Really, the problem is isolating variables and proving causation. If you look at most results of the data analysis, one can still predict outcomes primarily on SES of the location of the school and whether the school is comprehensive or has some level of selectiveness. This is because no matter what the studies say, most researchers do not do a good enough job controlling for these variables. The problem is that flawed data will be used used against educations and students. Lets look at an extreme example. I know a very smart kid who got kicked out of every 'good' school in his city because he had a lack of impulse control. When confronted with tougher teachers who expected him to complete the AP and dual level classes he excelled, and matured. My concern about this database is stuff this kid did when he was 14 would effect his opportunities when he is 18. In general the 14 year old kid and 18 year old kid are completely different people. The good thing that might come out of this is that the good schools that failed the 14 year old kid would lose points for the failure, and the school the succeeded in helping him might gain points, but that did not happen. On a personal note, I went to a good good school, which is different from the average bad good school. They did the work to force me mature and excel. Every teacher there treated me as an individual to push to succeed, not a entry in database. I never felt like I was less of a student, even though I was below average for the school. This is what education is about. Not tracking who gets a job or goes to the best colleges, but conning kids into learning more that they think they might.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    3. Re:Lack of Trust by dcollins · · Score: 2

      "If the educators are gathering data that showing people who failed or never took geometry end up making 50% less more than students who do pass geometry, they will more than likely look to tailor the curriculum to help students develop the skills and abilities required to pass geometry."

      In schools, there are (at least) opposing camps: the educators (teachers in classrooms with students) and administrators (pointy-haired bosses). It's easy to overlook the very deep disconnect that these groups have within a school system. In the last 20-30 years, a tipping point has been crossed in which more money is spent on administration than teaching; shared governance has basically booted teachers to the curb, with the biggest decisions by admins only; most college teachers being contingent adjunct faculty (not tenured with protection from admin retaliation), etc.

      Anyway, the people doing these giant database projects are generally not the educators you're looking for. They're Bill Gates, they're outside think tanks, they're private companies looking to sell a product and make a buck. In most high schools now the educators are not even in charge of the curriculum anymore, so they couldn't change it if they wanted to. I was talking to a local high school teacher who told me that he had to write down and formally file paperwork on any question or response who might deliver in the classroom; if an administrator walked in the room and heard him answering a question from a student that wasn't on the filed lesson plan, then he would receive an "unacceptable" job performance rating for that day. Stuff like that. The tighter you squeeze...

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
  7. Uhm... you need an educational backstory! by The+New+Guy+2.0 · · Score: 2

    If you fail to document yourself to a lot of people during your educational process, I can't hire you.

  8. Both sides are right: Assuming it wasn't misused, it would be an excellent way to datamine by computer what things work and don't, for a variety of home issues and problems.

    If it isn't misused.

    If.

    I can see CSI: Nosy Neighbors TV show, questioning a guy, "According to your school info, you have trouble making friends and once pulled up a girl's skirt. You murdered Mr. Body, didn't you?"

    No, the temptation for this info to be datamined by companies or worse, government officials dealing with uppity troublemakers, is too great IMO.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:If. by sabri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can see CSI: Nosy Neighbors TV show, questioning a guy, "According to your school info, you have trouble making friends and once pulled up a girl's skirt. You murdered Mr. Body, didn't you?"

      Exactly that.

      If.

      No, when.

      Somewhere 5-10 years downstream, some politician/NYPD-chief will use the next Sandy Hook event to say "We had the troubling information in the school's database, but we couldn't use it. Let's change the law".

      And we all know it's going to happen at some point.

      --
      I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
  9. Nothing new by RevWaldo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Teachers and vice principals have been warning students that their misbehaving and bad attitude were going on their permanent record for decades.

    .

  10. Benefits for whom ? by mbone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "People took for granted that parents would understand [the benefits], that it was self-evident,"

    Oh, I think that the parents understand the benefits fairly well. They just realize that they don't accrue to them or their children.

  11. Benefit Understood. Cost Underestimated. by Bob9113 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "People took for granted that parents would understand [the benefits], that it was self-evident," said Michael Horn,

    I'm sure they do. The benefits are self-evident. It is the people who have been advancing these programs who are lacking foresight, for not considering the costs.

    The problem is not that these programs have no value, it is that the cost is large and not well understood, and that once built it is very hard to make these things go away. As a society we have not begun to seriously examine the threat of these massive databases. Recent big data research has shown us the approximate threat level: In terms of influence power, it is "very big, larger than even the researchers expected."

  12. Missing from the conversation... by matbury · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What's missing from the conversation is how internet surveillance data is actually used by real companies in the real world. The truth is shocking but we almost never hear about it. Here's an article from a UK satirical investigative journalism periodical:

    "Eyespy

    Dodgy data deals

    SILICON Roundabout is the groovy name for the UK tech sector, backed with taxpayer cash through Big Society organisations like Tech City Investment Organisation and the Technology Strategy Board and estimated to be worth £225bn, or 12% of GDP, by 2016. But since almost all this will come from "big data" - information gathered for marketing purposes - our blossoming industry might more accurately be called Surveillance Roundabout.

    Between them, consumer intelligence companies, credit reporting agencies and data marketing firms hold detailed and current information on almost the entire population. They often suffer data breaches at the hands of hackers, who then use the loot (name, address, national insurance number, etc) for identity theft and fraud. Since there is no law requiring big data companies to reveal hacking or even use encryption, it usually gets covered up. Only when the damage is massive do we see it in the news, as was the case with Experian, Barclays, Lexis-Nexis and Equifax recently.

    Besides safekeeping, such an intrusive industry raises another question: is sensitive personal information now mere merchandise? Most UK data brokers have sense enough to hide their creepier practices, but there are exceptions. Clear Data Ltd, based in Herefordshire, advertises lists of old people ("over 65 and mostly female") waiting to be targeted by quack doctors, boiler room conmen, telephone raffle operators, and pyramid schemers in need of credulous targets. Data Broker Limited, from Cheshire, caters to predatory lenders — "[if you're] offering new loans to people With poor credit history and [county court Judgments against them], Databroker have the largest list related to loans for postal, telephone, mobile, SMS, email and social media campaigns".

    The company also provides lists of consumers who "seek online relationships". If you can't get a loan or a shag, we'll let the right people know. Or if you're struggling with a betting habit, a firm like the Data Octopus of Manchester might pass on your details in one of its databases of habitual gamblers.

    While Washington is looking hard at Silicon Valley data brokers in the US, a recent Senate inquiry describing them as secretive and opaque, the chances of scrutiny here look slim, even though some of the biggest companies directly named in the inquiry report — Epsilon, Experian and Acxiom — also operate extensively in the UK.

    UK politicians love getting into bed with trendy tech companies — David Cameron has extensive connections with Google, the tax-dodging behemoth whose revenue model is data surveillance. And how many of our legislators and regulators know anything about the web? Judging by how the Data Protection Act is taken as a joke by techies and as a useless tool by prosecutors, few indeed."

    Source: Private Eye, No. 1632, 21st March - 3rd April, 2014, Page 31.

  13. What this hurts by Hussman32 · · Score: 2

    Let's say they start datamining and storing whether or not a child has received mental health care. Then what? Kids and their parents will prevent their children from getting the needed health care in order to prevent their child from being classified as 'aberrant' by what is well-known to be an inconsistent psychological practices.

    Even worse. It will hurt redemption stories. In my own experience, I probably had too much fun when I was a kid. My grades were good but my friends were a varied lot, and some of them were not well-regarded by The Powers That Be (note I was in a small town, nails that stick out get hammered down). But I got wise, worked hard and smart on my education, and I'm doing well for myself. Would this have been possible if I were tracked during high school and automatically relegated to 'one of those ruffians?'

    The parents are right to complain about this, much more harm than good comes from it.

    --
    "Who are you?" "No one of consequence." "I must know." "Get used to disappointment."
  14. Re:Who benefits? by queazocotal · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Done right - yes, the kids.

    Education is not done at the moment in general in a rational manner.

    The process is typically that a politician gets an idea. (which they may even believe).
    They then either implement this in their area of influence, or if they are especially progressive, do a poorly setup trial, which they then ignore before rolling it out.

    The problem is things that seem reasonable often produce the exact opposite result.

    Take for example 'Scared Straight' programs - where troubled teens are taken on prison visits, to see what future awaits them and to help turn their life around. Seems obvious it'll work, so nobody checked.
    Unfortunately, when they did:
    'A study by Anthony Petrosino and researchers at the Campbell Collaboration analyzed results from nine Scared Straight programs and found that such programs generally increased crime up to 28 percent in the experimental group when compared to a no-treatment control group. ... found that youth who participate in Scared Straight and other similar deterrence programs have higher recidivism rates than youth in control groups.'

    There is real debate as to the best way to teach kids to read.
    Proper statistics measuring outcomes for each way answers this.

    Should this data ever be available outside education, and should there be extreme penalties for using such data in such contexts as insurance- of course not, and yes!.
    (I'd start at a million dollars per offence)

    https://www.ncjrs.gov/html/ojj...