Amazon Dispute Now Making Movies Harder To Order

trazom28 writes: Hachette books aren't the only products that are now harder to order on Amazon — the online retailer is going after movies, too. Amazon has turned off the preorder function for DVDs of prominent Warner Bros. films as it seeks to raise pressure on the company during negotiations. The Lego Movie, for example, is listed as "currently unavailable" on Amazon. Set for release in the home video marketplace on June 17, there is no option to place a preorder."

Comments

Now wait

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, WB is the one who put amazon in a crap situation in this one. They had a pre-order for a blue ray, for like $25....The move did exceptionally better than they anticipated, so WB decided NOT to produce the cheaper blu ray, and then put out a new $40 one. Amazon then had to cancel all the other cheaper pre orders, and deal with the legitimately pissed off customers. Amazon is doing some shady things, but they certainly aren't alone in it.

Re:Now wait

[DarkOx]

There is nothing shady about managing your suppliers. Every well run business does it. The only thing different is Amazon's suppliers are used to having monopoly power and getting any terms they want. Amazon is pushing back! Its a good for the consumer and I think ultimately will be good for the talent.

On the book side the job publishers actually do is shrinking (doubly so if we are talking e-books). Everyone I know that has ever had anything published or tried recently, tells me they are expected to provide manuscript in very very specific formats, already largely edited. At that point the only value adds pretty much come down to bundling it into the e-book container (they could do that themselves but for DRM signing etc) and access to the distribution channel (which Amazon could pretty easily provide them with directly), and some fancy name with authority behind it to slap on the work.

Amazon thinks they don't deserve such a big cut for all that lack of actual work; and I agree. The publishing industry does not have to be the gatekeepers anymore unless you want a large run of dead tree, where someone needs to put up real capital. A quick look at interest rates these days ought to give you an idea of what the real value of that is too.

The movie world is still a little different, the talent isn't in a position to produce a feature film, although that isn't necessarily the case with an animated work like "Lego Movie"; and if you look the gulf between what really talented folks can do in their basement vs. what Hollywood cranks out is for the most part narrowing too. So value the 'Studios' are providing is declining not matter what fantastic sums of money they manage to blow on the production. I am all for Amazon putting the squeeze on these guys too.

Amazon *IS* the market, the market should set prices. If Amazons history is any guide at all they will use any cost to compete, so as consumers we cant expect to see some of it passed on to use in the form of lower prices. I also can't think of well anything other than Amazon's own products Kindle etc, that are exclusive to them, so I am not worried about Amazon being a monopoly yet; someday it might be a concern but not now.

Re:Now wait

[Anonymous Coward]

Largely I think publishers just don't give a fuck about quality anymore. If I judged publishers solely by the piss-poor print-to-e-book conversion jobs they've been doing I have to say they're fucking worthless. I'm reading one book right now on my kindle that makes it painfully clear no one at Bantam bothered to even edit the e-book format. There are so many word fuckups from the OCR process it's not even funny.

I've actually had similar experiences with Dune. It's just sad that they don't even bother checking the content after running it through OCR software and then they have the gaul to charge nearly $10 for what amounts to a fucking PDF.

Pisses me off to no end.

Re:Now wait

[fistfullast33l]

While I agree in principle that publisher's are a bit superfluous to the publishing equation, acting solely as a middle man, you did leave out one major point regarding their value add. They provide substantial marketing muscle that it's not clear Amazon would provide to an individual author alone. They arrange book and media tours as well, especially for up and coming authors. Established authors obviously have their own agents or PR people who could help with this, but new authors have neither the resources nor the experience to participate in this critical marketing tool.

As a corollary - look at the Apple or Android app stores. Obviously the larger apps have marketing muscle behind them (in the form of publishers, of course), but the day that the individual could make a lot of money is few and far between. I would argue that the window for indie developer success lasted about 6 months after the app store launched. After that, you were just one person shouting in a crowd and had no chance to break even without marketing saavy or dumb luck.

Re:Now wait

[tlhIngan]

I think Amazon is getting arrogant and stupid, and think they own the market and have no competition. My books aren't affected, they're available at Amazon. But they're cheaper from Barnes & Noble, and B&N listed them in their catalog two days before Amazon did (I'm my own publisher, no hatchets are war nerd brothers).

I think it's dumb, B&N will eat their lunch. Want a WB movie or Hatchette book? B&N. And probably a hundred other places.

Amazon DOES own the market. The first place most people go to for a book or movie or any other thing online? Amazon. I know people who rarely spend a dollar outside of Amazon as Amazon has practically everything in one place. (Or if it's not available from Amazon, they send a nasty letter to the manufacturer asking them why it's not on Amazon).

B&N is a poor comparison - they are circling the drain. So they have to lower prices to compete. But few people shop at B&N, and even fewer have ebooks there (I've run across many that are Amazon only, annoyingly).

And with the DoJ putting the smackdown on the Apple Agency model of selling e-books, coupled with Amazon's practical monopoly over ebooks, well, Amazon will soon be the only place. Nook's in trouble, too. When the DoJ as part of the Apple thing hacked up all the contracts, well, Amazon picked up the pieces and benefitted, while everyone else started dying. Other than Nook, there's no real other source of ebooks, and Nook's in trouble.

Basically, Amazon's become the Wal-Mart of the online world.

Re:Now wait

[0123456]

While I agree in principle that publisher's are a bit superfluous to the publishing equation, acting solely as a middle man, you did leave out one major point regarding their value add. They provide substantial marketing muscle that it's not clear Amazon would provide to an individual author alone.

Sure, if you're Stephen King. Not if you're Joe Newbie who just sold them his new book for a $5,000 advance.

How much marketing do you think they're going to throw at a book if they're only willing to pay the author $5,000?

Re:Now wait

[0123456]

The only reservaton I have is the idea that one gigantic business is somehow going to treat me better than another gigantic business. Giant Douche versus Shit Sandwich comes to mind...

Except Amazon has great customer service, while Big Movie regards customers as an annoyance.

That might change, but, right now, I'll take Amazon over any big movie company any day.

Re:Now wait

[Charliemopps]

To be fair, WB is the one who put amazon in a crap situation in this one. They had a pre-order for a blue ray, for like $25....The move did exceptionally better than they anticipated, so WB decided NOT to produce the cheaper blu ray, and then put out a new $40 one. Amazon then had to cancel all the other cheaper pre orders, and deal with the legitimately pissed off customers. Amazon is doing some shady things, but they certainly aren't alone in it.

They aren't to blame for the Hatchet fiasco either. Hatchet was found guity of price fixing against Amazon.There is nothing wrong with Amazon putting the screws to them.

Re:Now wait

[Maxo-Texas]

They can't afford it any more.

Quality staff and full time editors cost money.

Be nice if we could crowd-source corrections tho.

Available in Amazon UK

[Sven-Erik]

I see that I can preorder The Lego Movie in the Amazon UK website, with a release date on July 21, so looks like this is limited to the US market.

Re:Available in Amazon UK

[thetoadwarrior]

The EU is more likely to punish them that's why. The US loves corporate bullies.

Re:Available in Amazon UK

[harrkev]

It is listed at 10 pounds.

Wow. Shipping for that DVD must be VERY expensive. They are only an ounce or two here in the USA.

Re:Available in Amazon UK

[mythosaz]

Your currency is very heavy.

Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder

[gurps_npc]

For both books and movies.

Just saying....

;-)

Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder

[Z00L00K]

This Amazon circus just shows us the dangers with a monopoly where one player dictates what can be purchased and sold.

Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder

[gurps_npc]

So you are saying "Fight the Power, Buy a Nook"?

Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder

[roc97007]

Very good point. This is why it's important to have competition.

Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder

[roc97007]

"This Amazon circus just shows us the dangers with a monopoly where one player dictates what can be purchased and sold" ... ... You said, in response to someone pointing out that a COMPETITOR of Amazon will still gladly take your money in exchange for goods and services.

/ I do not think it means what you think it means

I think he phrased it badly. I took this to mean, we have to be very careful about monopolies developing for exactly this reason. In other words, not saying that Amazon is a monopoly, but that their behavior is the reason a monopoly would be bad.

Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder

[jedidiah]

A company does not have to stand completely alone in the marketplace in order to have a dire impact on things. The usual villain here is Walmart. They have been abusing suppliers long before Amazon got in the act.

The fact that I can choose one titan over another doesn't alter the fact that either can distort the market to a degree that's dangerous for the free market in general.

Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder

[TubeSteak]

This Amazon circus just shows us the dangers with a monopoly where one player dictates what can be purchased and sold.

I would question the characterization of one company deciding not to allow pre-orders being equivalent to "one player dictates what can be purchased and sold."

You can still buy the movie.
Sellers can still sell the movie.
Just not on Amazon until it is available in retail channels.

Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder

[rwv]

The usual villain here is Walmart. They have been abusing suppliers long before Amazon got in the act.

Point of consideration that Walmart bullies around smaller suppliers while Amazon is taking a stand against one of the major publishers with Hachette and Warner Bros which is operated by Time Warner who is currently seeking Anti-Trust approval to merge with Comcast.

If anything, Amazon's ability to stand up to Big Media seems to be in the best interest of consumers. Big Media is where the evil monopolies seem to be. Amazon's power over online sales relies on convenience, their customer supplied rating/feedback system, and their pricing policies. Amazon wants to charge small for high quality because cheap crap will be rated as such on Amazon and nobody will buy it. Meanwhile Walmart wants to charge small for low quality because who cares about customers and suppliers if they can earn 20% of half a Trillion bucks each year (http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/wmt/financials).

Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder

[PRMan]

No. But apparently they give you The Lego Movie.

Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder

[kaatochacha]

Pretty much all of them. Star Wars Monopoly, Battlestar Galactica Monopoly, My First Monopoly....

Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder

[roc97007]

> Point of consideration that Walmart bullies around smaller suppliers while Amazon is taking a stand against one of the major publishers with Hachette and Warner Bros which is operated by Time Warner who is currently seeking Anti-Trust approval to merge with Comcast.

Indeed. This is where I get conflicted. Amazon using their clout to push Time Warner around is like seeing a bully getting a beat-down by another bully. The winner might push you around next, but while the fight is occurring, it's fun to watch.

Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder

[Bite The Pillow]

Meanwhile, if I forget something past the preorder date, I never really wanted it.

Re:Pissing off customers, much?

[digitig]

Actually, there is a good online one-stop-shop available: Google (other search engines are available). If I want a book, DVD or pretty much anything else I Google to see who has it available and at what price. If Amazon don't, hey, I probably won't even notice; I'll be busy comparing price and delivery options for the companies that do.

Re:Fuck Amazon

[cdrudge]

Evil, vile company.

As oppose to book publishers that want you to pay the same for an ebook as a hard copy?

It's easier to just go through life when you realize that ALL companies are evil, vile companies and they are all out to maximize THEIR profits at the expense of others.

If publishers and distributors don't want to deal with Amazon, don't do business with them. Amazon's not the only ecommerce site on the internet. Yes you may lose sales from people who want to buy it on Amazon but can't. But Amazon also loses the sale. And if people want your product, if you make it easy for them to get it elsewhere they'll still get it. If I REALLY wanted to go buy The Lego Movie and Wal-Mart didn't have it, I'd go to Best Buy. Or Target. Or some other store. This is no different.

I have preordered the torrent

[chmilar]

Fortunately, torrents are not subject to contract disputes.

Amazon, Warner, Hachette and others seem determined to drive everyone to torrents.

Re:I have preordered the torrent

[jxander]

They're simply guilty by association.

Amazon is causing a ruckus with Warner/Hatchette. That ruckus is driving people to alternative (and less legal means)

Perhaps Warner should be looking into alternative distribution methods. They're a big enough company that if Amazon wants to play hardball, Warner should be able to play right back. Threaten to pull all movies from Amazon, create and promote a new partnership with (for example) Overstock.com or create their own direct distribution branch. Fire off a few commercials like "For all your Warner Brothers needs, go to WB.com" It might cost them money in the short term, but it would prevent people from pirating their movies, drive up traffic on their website, and probably save money in the long run by leveraging a better negotiating position with Amazon (or moving on to greener pastures with o.co, or whomever)

Re:Pissing off customers, much?

[Trepidity]

I use Google Product Search now and then, but I find it's a lot higher-effort. They don't really do any vetting on whether the stores they include are legit, so you have to look up reviews and try to figure out whether the company is the kind that's going to ship you defective merchandise and then claim they didn't. Particularly around electronics and cameras, the search results are full of fly-by-night online stores.

Re:Really?

[alen]

what happens if your internet goes out?
what if i don't want to turn on my macbook or PC to stream movies to my apple TV all the time
what if i don't want to buy a SAN and spend time ripping movies and paying the electric bill for it being on all the time
what if i want to see the best quality on my HD TV

My life is ruined

[wcrowe]

Dear God! I can't get in my preorder for the Lego movie? Oh, the humanities!

The fact that this is a problem says a lot more about our society than it does about either Amazon or Warner Brothers.

 

Re:Fuck Amazon

[geekoid]

It's even easier when you realize no company is evil. or good.
They are companies.

WB just lost $25

[TiggertheMad]

To be fair, WB is the one who put amazon in a crap situation in this one. They had a pre-order for a blue ray, for like $25....The move did exceptionally better than they anticipated, so WB decided NOT to produce the cheaper blu ray, and then put out a new $40 one. Amazon then had to cancel all the other cheaper pre orders, and deal with the legitimately pissed off customers. Amazon is doing some shady things, but they certainly aren't alone in it.

...Good to know. Hey WB, if you have canceled my Amazon pre order of TLM just to hike the price, I'm not reordering it. I just going to STEAL it online. Fuck you.

Re:Intentional misprints?

[mindwhip]

So you aren't a 7th day advent hopist then?

"Faith, Hop and Charity, and the greatest of these is Hop."