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Physical Media: Down, But Maybe Not Out

jfruh writes: "For many tech-savvy folks, it may come as surprise that physical media like DVD and Blu-Ray still generate more movie revenue than streaming services. But PriceWaterhouse Coopers is predicting that the the lines will cross in 2017 as physical media sales and rentals decline; already, fully half of those revenues come from supermarket Redbox kiosks. Still, there are signs that physical media won't vanish entirely, including the obsessive needs of collectors and the music industry's increasing suspicions of digital sales."

23 of 116 comments (clear)

  1. Sure, let me know by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 2

    When someone starts making new 456 1/4" tape again.

    --
    Mostly random stuff.
  2. stupid premise by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Tech-savvy folks rip physical media and ffmpeg it into whatever format their device prefers. Fools spend money on DRM'ed downloads.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:stupid premise by lgw · · Score: 4, Informative

      Exactly this. Cheap bastards torrent (understandable if you're broke), but if you have money? You rip the physical media. Personally, I rip it into a "visually lossless" format since I'm sure players and disk capacity will catch up to file sizes and formats over time, but that's obsession not convenience. There's just no beating the convenience of a normal filesystem with normal media files.

      But then, I tend to watch stuff more than once. DRMed streams are fine, really, if you never plan to watch something again.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    2. Re:stupid premise by mythosaz · · Score: 2

      SNAP! You and your Unnecessary Capitals sure showed him.

    3. Re:stupid premise by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      Physical media is the one usable fallback you can count on when all of the empty promises of techno-hipsters fail you.

      Unless you want to pirate everything and use protocols that announce your actions to the world, the most reliable method of data acquisition is still physical media. It's also the most reliable way to ensure that you have access to your stuff wherever you happen to be.

      The "lets-force-you-to-download-this-each-and-every-single-time sttreaming services go to crap as soon as there is the slightest network hiccup.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    4. Re:stupid premise by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Exactly this. Cheap bastards torrent (understandable if you're broke), but if you have money? You rip the physical media.

      For $DIETY's sake why? I've already paid for the disk, I've already paid for the player. I have the money, but it makes no dammed sense whatsoever to pay a third time for more (potential failure points) storage media and the electricity to run it. You and the OP ("Tech-savvy folks rip physical media") should speak for yourselves.

      Because disks get scratched when you play them and destroyed once people other then you start using them. Because I have to store them in some accessible part of my house and can't just scroll down the list on XBMC and pick what I want to watch that night. Because my rips are backups for my disks, and my disks backups for my rips.

      I don't want physical media. What I want is Blu-Ray quality video. I would be perfectly happy to download this, but you can't download Blu-Ray quality video from anywhere, and you can't easily break the encryption on downloaded streams anyway and they cost as much as the physical disk a lot of the time.

      And thanks to XBMC, I only need the one Blu-Ray drive. Everything else can be a thin-client which boots from my server, or one of those Android boxes (don't like those though - driver support is spotty and Android is not a great HTPC OS - plus having all my XBMCs share the same preferences and extensions automagically is wonderful).

    5. Re:stupid premise by SeaFox · · Score: 3, Informative

      What "visually lossless" format are you using? Does it have any actual benefits over re-encoding with a recent build of x264, given that quite a lot of DVDs available were apparently encoded with some shitty h262 codec from 1998, given the artifacts all over them?

      Yes, DVDs are in MPEG2... because DVD discs have to maintain compatibility with DVD players, even older ones, and back in 1998 MPEG2 was the type of video playback hardware chips could handle. Btw, digital cable streams in the U.S. are still generally done in MPEG2 as well. There are some newer models of converters the last couple years that can handle h264, but to maintain compatibility with all the already deployed equipment providers are still feeding them the older, less efficient format.

      Genuine question, I tend to rip my DVDs to 1000kbs video...

      If you're encoding at a constant bitrate you're doing it like it's still 2005. Should be using a constant quality (variable bitrate) encoding setting to get more bandwidth when it's needed in high-action shots or grainy footage, and less in stark black/white screens and low movement footage.

      which is approximately half the bitrate...

      No, DVD's go quite a bit higher than 2000 kbps. Try 6-9000 kbps.

      It also means I can deinterlace the fuckers at the same time. I utterly loathe interlacing and it's all over UK DVDs, particularly TV shows from the early 00s and before.

      Most DVDs I see nowadays are progressively encoded, but okay.

  3. not just obsessive collectors by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is definitely an aspect of obsessive collectors liking physical media, yes: they're more tangible, sometimes look nice (especially in fancy limited editions), etc.. But even people who are not really that big into collecting have a pretty big reason to still prefer physical media: you have some chance of actually keeping it. Your purchase of a book or CD will probably not be remotely "revoked" by the manufacturer, which is more than can be said for the currently popular methods of digital delivery.

    1. Re:not just obsessive collectors by Artifakt · · Score: 2

      I think I'm pretty far from an obsessive collector (well maybe I do sometimes fall in that category and am just not seeing it), but it's not that relevant whether people are or not.
                  I have some significant films and books that have been released in various censored editions. For example, I have the paperback Del Rey Gold Seal version of Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451, which is both vetted by the author and has an afterword detailing some of the many bowderizings of that book (of all stories) and in what ways some other Bradbury stories were censored in various other editions. It's a rather nasty set of examples.
                  I seem to recall there was a story covered here on Slashdot a few years ago about Blockbuster demanding changes to the copies of a gereat many videos they distributed from the theatre releases. In my classical music collection, I have a version of Copland's Lincoln Portrait that.was translated for a South American audience, and on the night It was first performed, the people leaving the auditorium went straight to the streets to conduct a revolution. It might be a good thing if the exact performance that served as a trigger was on physical media (and from some people's POV, it might be a very bad thing - quick, burn the tape!).
                    It may be just "obsessive" fans who want to compare different releases of Star Trek TOS or Star Wars and argue over trivia, but when the changes involve more controversial works, THATS a real "pretty big reason to still prefer physical media". (And I'm not sure but what that applies to ST:TOS as well - that "First interracial kiss footage might still count as controversial in some circles - are their copies of what was actually broadcast in different southern US markets?). So, to your "you have some chance of actually keeping it", I'll add ", even if it makes the powers that be uncomfortable." Physical media let us see who is revising, amending, or deleting whose thoughts, and sometimes even make a pretty good guess why.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    2. Re:not just obsessive collectors by Trepidity · · Score: 2

      If old stuff was always reissued in a new format, that might be viable (apart from paying for it over and over). But frequently it isn't. Most books are out of print, including many things I check out of libraries. A large number of VHS film releases were never released on DVD. Some were only released in certain DVD regions, due to licensing problems surrounding the reissue. Even some quite high-profile ones took many years to be released on DVD. When I first looked for La Jetée in the mid-2000s, I had to buy a VHS copy off eBay, because it was not available in DVD region 1 (only region 2).

  4. An extended rental... by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with digital "sales" is that they aren't really a sale. They are effectively an extended rental. That rental can be revoked at any time and your entire collection can be made to go away.

    That said, what is going to kill physical media is the availability of cheap subscription options. If something can be had on Netflix for $8 it makes little sense to pay $20 or $60 for the DVDs.

    The comparison between physical media and expensive pay per view services is another matter though. Streaming doesn't have an obvious price advantage.

    Plus there's the question of whether or not what you want is on ANY streaming service.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  5. Two things by slapout · · Score: 2

    1) There is isn't enough bandwidth for streaming everything.

    2) I think Blockbuster might still be in business if they hadn't run all their customer off by trying to get them to purchase extra things. Redbox shows that there's a demand for DVD rentals.

    --
    Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
  6. Collector here by rmdingler · · Score: 2
    I still enjoy the tangible aspect of owning a hard copy of a few hundred movies, in much the same nostalgic way a dead tree novel is sometimes preferable to my Kindle.

    While not a consummate prepper, I can still lose cable, internet, and even electrical service... and bide the disaster with a semblance of civilized entertainment.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  7. Data Caps by asmkm22 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The only reason I still rent movies is because broadband in my area comes with fairly low data caps. I'm stuck paying about $100 a month for 18Mbs, and 150 GB limit. Gotta love monopolies.

  8. "Criterion" style downloads/streams? by swb · · Score: 2

    When will we see the "Criterion" version of movie streams or downloads?

    Too often what's on consumer video of many films (and, maybe, all films in some way) is compromised intentionally or circumstantially, either in the making of the film or the home video release production.

    Will we ever get "Criterion" editions of these films as streams or downloads? I imagine the jungle of licensing gets in the way not to mention the lowest common denominator thinking that goes with Netflix. But I would expect iTunes or Amazon to sell Criterion streams as downloads.

  9. most people cannot get BRD-like bit rates online by PhantomHarlock · · Score: 2

    When streaming services can deliver 1080P at 25mbits/sec, sign me up. Most "HD" streaming services I have seen are fairly horrendous. Either they are streaming at reduced resolutions such as 720P or the data rate is poor enough that there are bad artifacts in high motion scenes and transitions. When you have a projector and a large screen, this is a major problem. You see it all. With Blu Ray, there are no artifacts it feels like you're in a theater.

    Also, outside of big cities, most of us are on fairly slow 1.5 to 5mbit/sec connections. The local cable provider recently got a fiber backbone in town which greatly increased their offerings (pulling about 18mbits / sec at home right now) but I am moving and the new neighborhood is back to the slowboat offerings. The duopoly is slow to catch up, they need a concrete competitor before they will make any improvements to their infrastructure. It was only when the cable service started offering internet that the phone company (AT&T) finally started offering DSL in the area.

  10. Re:blu-ray for 4K / 8K download cap are to low for by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Funny

    You know, if you have troubles with throughput there is this awsome website that lets you cache the movies you want to watch right to your hard drive. You just start it before you leave for work, and when you get home its there to watch with no chance of network congestion problems. Go here to find out all about it: http://thepiratebay.se/

  11. Re:Streaming still not an option in many places by Average · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yep. I can name numerous friends and family in rural spots where internet is either Excede, Hughes, or 4G stick. Without exception, they all have a physical-disc NetFlix subscription.

  12. Re:Meh. by Black+LED · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't have a problem with digital distribution, so long as companies cannot remove access to paid for content, hold it hostage and/or prevent me from making my own backups. gog.com is the only service which has done this correctly, in that I can download what I buy and write it to whatever media I want, ensuring that I can keep copies for as long as I please.

    It's unfortunate that there are no video services that allow people to do the same. I suppose you could vidcap your purchases and burn those, but you shouldn't have to do that.

  13. Not everyone has internet at home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Drive north of Boston to Dartmouth College. Home of the 1st remote computer connection (from Bell Labs, 1947ish). Oh, and BASIC. There's a bit of tech in the area. Those living in most of the towns nearby can get comcast cable. Many roads don't have cable but there's a wireless internet provider.

    But there are still local DVD rental stores. Remember those? Drive 20-30 minutes out, away from interstate 89 & 91 and you cannot get internet except by Satellite or dial up. Your cell phone will be intermittent. 4G? 3G isn't available out there. There are cell towers on the interstate, but there are still dead zones along the way. Heck, when the iPhone came out, some Dartmouth students found their contract canceled because they were always roaming, even on campus. And the iPhone is only 5-6 years old.

    If you want to watch a movie, you drive 20-30 minutes back into town for the theatre or you get a DVD rental.

    This is most of the US. The people in dense areas and on the coasts can stream, but for the rest, it's DVDs or VHS.

  14. Re:Meh. by The+Snowman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm spontaneous enough that I almost always stream. I can't imagine others are far behind.

    I buy Blu-rays using Amazon Prime for less than $10 each. It gets here in two days, and if it costs $10 or more, it is not a good value and I do not watch it. Plus, I have physical media that stick around in case the cloud blows away in a breeze. Internet is down? I can still watch it. Cloud provider goes out of business due to lousy sales or MPAA greed or malfeasance? I still have the media. Sure, this means I do not get new releases right away, but why should I care?

    --
    24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
  15. Re:Meh. by segedunum · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That's the problem I have with watching movies online. As soon as online movie services feel they have reached a critical mass they'll be pulling all kinds of stunts to squeeze more money. Ever more draconian licensing (we all know it's coming), movies withdrawn without explanation and pricing based on pathetic attempts at trying to find your screen size. Disney thinks the latter revenue method is viable.

  16. Physical Media by Mike+Frett · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Call me crazy but I prefer to have the physical copy. This way I can watch it anytime I want and I don't need to worry about the inevitable loss of Internet connectivity. It's the same with Cash, I prefer Cash as it's inevitable that via some Galactic event or War; Satellites will be disabled. People don't generally think about these events, but they are inevitable.

    I still buy DVD also, I turn my nose up at Blu-ray due the ever-changing DRM and sorry quality of the players. Upscaling HDMI DVD Players are the best they have ever been and look just as good as HD Programming on TV. There is also a rumor among companies like Warner and Fox that they are currently taking a loss on Blu-ray sales by trying to match the DVD prices; you see it costs money to go back and do new transfers and add all that extra content. Not to mention all the angry people that will come when they realize they need to buy the Disk again when 4k/8k and whatever else arrives. And to be fair I tried to get into Blu-ray, the quality upgrade wasn't worth the constant lock-ups, slow menus and firmware nonsense.

    Also for people like me, having to replace 1000+ DVDs is not financially possible since I own all the movies I ever wanted and have no real interest in "modern" films; they're all either remakes or reboots anyway and consist of 90% CGI. But if I were forced to choose, I would probably skip Blu-ray and go Digital Download, as if I wanted, I can record the stream and make my own DVD. For anyone who has done it, a DVD made from an HD source is very high quality, even better than the retail version.

    In any case, I don't think Physical Media is going away anytime soon. I think you would have a better chance of dying in your own Bathroom.