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NADA Is Terrified of Tesla

cartechboy writes It's no secret that the National Automobile Dealers Association has been trying to block Tesla from selling cars directly from consumers, but to date, it has been defeated countless times in many states. Now NADA put out a release and promotional video touting the benefits of dealer franchises, something Tesla has shunned. NADA mentions price competition, consumer safety, local economic benefits, and added value.

36 of 455 comments (clear)

  1. Speculation... by mythosaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While possibly true, it's complete speculation to tie this to Tesla.

    But hey, Tesla gets page views.

    1. Re:Speculation... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How is it not tied to Tesla? All cars in the US are sold at dealerships, well at least all cars you don't put together yourself that you order from the back of a magazine. Tesla rolls in recently and is the ONLY one not using dealerships. Why would the NADA have to start pimping themselves if people never had an option not to use a dealer? Car dealers are SCUM. They are leaches. Their goal is nothing but to separate you from as much money as they can. Remember that the next time you are sitting at a salesmans desk that is out in the open on the sales floor with a lot of hustle and bustle around, people walking by and they are playing music over the speakers in the showroom relatively loud. There is a reason they do those two things and its not for your benefit. Ask them why that ONE car stock number 7782 that was advertised for 12,888 is not in stock and why the advertised price on another car is $15,800 but that assumes every rebate that you cant possibly get and $5000 down and then another $1000 for a doc fee plus a delivery change of $781. It's not 15,800. Why not just advertise it on your site or the paper for $1000 and add a $18,000 deliver charge? What's the difference? Again they are SCUM. People only kind of like dealers that only do most of those things, it is relative. That is sad. If you like a dealer, it is because you got ripped off and you didn't even know it.

      Helping the local jobs and economy argument is bullshit. If that was the case, let's create dealerships for everything and we will all be rich, all have jobs, and be debt free. Same as the RIAA/MPAA arguments. Money does not grow on trees and people do not have a limitless supply. People would spend the money they spent at a dealer somewhere else, possibly at another local store with local employees. Cars still need to be repaired and parts bought for them, that will still happen with or without a dealership.

    2. Re:Speculation... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      While possibly true, it's complete speculation to tie this to Tesla.

      But hey, Tesla gets page views.

      Not really. Tesla doesn't really have the volume (or the low end offerings) to eat the dealerships' bread and butter(except possibly some relatively niche outfits who used to sell a lot more ~100k ICE vehicles to techies made good); but they have been extremely aggressive about 100% company-owned and operated sales locations, and have skirted the laws in various ways ("Information centers" that look sort of like a dealership except that the staff are forbidden to sell you anything, just show you stuff and you can go use that computer over there to buy online if you want...) in states where the dealerships have purchased protective legislation.

      Barring a radical overthrow of the automotive order, Tesla isn't personally going to terminate dealerships; but if their model holds up, persuades lawmakers, survives in court in more hostile states, etc. it can be copied pretty much verbatim by any manufacturer that cares to.

      And the NADA can't exactly be ignorant of how...beloved...a traditional industry it is that they represent. Merely seriously proposing that we could eliminate car dealers, in our time!, probably excites more people than fancy electric cars do. This isn't one of those "Upstart company disrupts traditional business right in the face, laughs" situations where hand-wringing moralists write books about the moral decline and inevitable decadence of our civilization occasioned by the hardships of the traditional business.

    3. Re:Speculation... by demachina · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tesla's 3rd generation car is supposed to be a mass market vehicle that may disrupt the "automotive order" if Musk manages to build it. The giga battery factory he is looking for a home for is a critical component since it is critical to have enough affordable batteries for a mass market electric car.

      Tesla today wont disrupt NADA, but Tesla in a few years very well may, they know it, so they are trying to nip it in the bud.

      --
      @de_machina
    4. Re:Speculation... by LifesABeach · · Score: 4, Funny

      You didn't mention the plad suits; why?

    5. Re:Speculation... by WindBourne · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Barring a radical overthrow of the automotive order, Tesla isn't personally going to terminate dealerships; but if their model holds up, persuades lawmakers, survives in court in more hostile states, etc. it can be copied pretty much verbatim by any manufacturer that cares to.

      In fact, the ones that they fear is not tesla, but China. If Tesla opens the door this way, then the Chinese companies will come to America in exactly the same fashion.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    6. Re:Speculation... by hendrips · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Indeed, I moderately dislike Tesla generally and Elon Musk specifically, and I'm neutral on both electric cars and luxury cars. Nevertheless, I'm cheering myself hoarse for Tesla in this fight. I'd cheer equally for just about anyone who would make a similar effort to reduce the amount of sliminess involved in car purchases.

    7. Re:Speculation... by dishpig · · Score: 5, Funny

      He couldn't find the 'i'.

    8. Re:Speculation... by Immerman · · Score: 5, Funny

      But without the sliminess of dealerships, how will we keep the engines lubricated? Sure, we can change the oil regularly, but we all know that even many years later it's still mostly the final remnants of salesman slime that really keep your engine running smoothly. Just look at how many cars, and other goods for that matter, break down as soon as the warranty expires and the last traces of salesmanship finally evaporate. Coincidence? I think not.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    9. Re:Speculation... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have heard Elon Musk speak on this. His basic proposition is that he has never had a positive dealership experience and he has rarely met anyone that has had a positive dealership experience.

      It is a fairly compelling argument.

    10. Re:Speculation... by Jeremi · · Score: 4, Funny

      In fact, the ones that they fear is not tesla, but China. If Tesla opens the door this way, then the Chinese companies will come to America in exactly the same fashion.

      Given the product quality and level of support provided by Chinese manufacturers -- if American dealers can't compete against that, then they really don't have any reason to exist.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    11. Re:Speculation... by pepty · · Score: 4, Informative

      With what, fucked-over old VWs (well, licensed copies) with non-matching front and back halves? They don't have anything else that will pass the crash tests.

      Volvos will be made in China and exported to the US beginning next year.

    12. Re:Speculation... by TWX · · Score: 4, Funny

      The electric car doesn't need nearly as much grease as there are no reciprocating engine parts to keep lubricated. There certainly are axle and wheel bearings, and possibly some other random bearings, so it should be a lot easier without salesmen-slime. We can reserve that long-lasting grease for the door hinges.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    13. Re:Speculation... by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 4, Informative

      It was true when the first Japanese cars came. However, I am guessing they read the reviews and created MITI. Meanwhile the American motor industry was telling the world "American cars are bigger, so they must be better" the real Ford Galaxy (500) was as big as an aircraft carrier, and at least twice as hard to steer (at least here in Europe it was). And with a 500 cubic inch (7 litre) engine it could almost outperform the average European 2 litre model on a strait road, Unfortunately we have not had strait roads in the UK since the Romans left in 530AD.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    14. Re:Speculation... by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I actually went in with a bid from Truecar, and the dealer claimed that the price they quoted included discounts I wasn't eligible for. Never mind that they asked the eligibility questions online and I answered them correctly. I'm sure they violated their agreement with Truecar and what they did was illegal, but I wasn't about to try to fight it especially since they were in another state.

      Still, I got a price much better than I probably could have negotiated. I thought the price they actually quoted was too good to be true, but I figured I was better off starting at a price 30% below sticker and having them talk me up, than starting at sticker price and having to talk them down. I got the price I figured was fair in the first place. I just felt dirty walking out all the same.

    15. Re:Speculation... by s122604 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sigh

      Nobody is saying that there can't be franchised dealerships. If that is the way a company wants to organize its distribution chain, fine..
      The issue is that car dealers, slimebags that they are, are trying to use the legal system to force all businesses, whether they want to organize that way or not, to follow that model.

      The reason for this is quite clear (at least to me it is), and it has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with any altruistic purpose (keeping costs down, protecting the customer, or some such bullshit). Its all about using the force of government to protect their racket. They realize, quite accurately, that Tesla's model would threaten to remove a lot of the zero-value-add profit that gets extracted by the dealer from the consumer.

      It's not a hard point to understand, unless you are determined not to understand it.

    16. Re:Speculation... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Firstly, I don't think car dealerships should be legally protected. So we are in agreement on this point.

      However....

      Best Buy should have been perfectly able to function in a mixed market. But instead people use them as a show room- look at the products, and then buy online.

      The second is probably a better model. Customers test drive and look at the cars at a dealership and then buy them from the non-dealerships. And then probably try to get support from the dealerships.

      The same thing is true for crafting and several other fields. The biggest thing we lose is customer service. Man- you look at the shows from the 50's and customer service levels were 10x what they are now. Department stores literally had an employee at every counter.

      By squeezing out the profits- we lose customer service and employment opportunities. It's like the reverse of a virtuous cycle. The end is everything automated and online with very few humans. I don't see what's going to stop it.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    17. Re:Speculation... by torkus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What part of this CAN'T you get if the manufacturer runs the showroom?

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
  2. We should have a choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There will always be a need for car dealerships, but there is no good reason to ban direct sales. This is pure rent-seeking behavior. The dealerships should position themselves as Tesla's partners in buying/selling used Teslas and in repairs.

    1. Re:We should have a choice by metac0rtex · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They are only crying because this a market they don't have cornered. Actual competition is terrifying to "free market capitalists". NADA can fuck right off.

    2. Re:We should have a choice by nospam007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "There will always be a need for car dealerships,..."

      Yes, because we just love to give cuts to as many people as possible for our purchases.

      I remember fondly the days when we couldn't buy computers, hairdryers, video recorders and even luggage containers in a supermarket, because those needed 'special' vendors with 'secret' knowledge.

    3. Re:We should have a choice by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They are only crying because this a market they don't have cornered.

      Actual competition is terrifying to "free market capitalists".

      No it's not. It's terrifying to cronies who use crony capitalism to keep a grip on their markets through government "regulation".

    4. Re:We should have a choice by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 5, Informative

      So, you realize that his person meant crony capitalists when he put free market capitalists in quotes, right?

      --PM

  3. Local Dealerships by suso · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wow, local dealerships sound AWESOME!

  4. Change is coming for car dealers by sasparillascott · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not specifically Tesla, but electric cars don't have alot of things that car dealers make money with (oil changes, engine work, transmission work and on and on). Alot of dealerships make much of their profits from such things, so what Tesla represents is scary change - of course that change is coming whether driven by Tesla or someone else.

    So the dealers have alot of money, alot of friends and will do what they can to gum up the works for (or kill) Tesla and what it represents if they can. JMHO...

    1. Re:Change is coming for car dealers by fisted · · Score: 4, Informative

      a lot

    2. Re:Change is coming for car dealers by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Funny

      pendant

    3. Re: Change is coming for car dealers by binarylarry · · Score: 4, Funny

      Mormon.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
  5. Everyone loves car dealers! by hsmith · · Score: 5, Funny

    They are great, they protect the consumer, ensure fair prices, charge fair prices for repairs, ensure you don't get ripped off, the list goes on! Good for them, Tesla deserves a beat down for trying to get rid of these middle men.

    Oh, jk.

  6. Benefits by Dega704 · · Score: 5, Funny

    They forgot to mention the free leg massages from leg-humping auto salesmen.

  7. Talk about a tall order! by DriedClexler · · Score: 4, Funny

    Imagine being the marketing team that had to make car dealers seem like a good thing to have!

    --
    Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
  8. Buying a car by MpVpRb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ..in the traditional sales system is not a thing that most people enjoy

    Some people falsely believe they are "players" but they still get screwed

    Most people are "sheep" and they get screwed faster and harder

    I am not a master negotiator..I just want a car at a fair price

    I always feel like a lamb in a roomful of tigers when I deal with a traditional car dealer

    I'm a really good engineer, and I have many other talents..but cutthroat negotiation is not one of them

    I really, really want a better system

  9. Re:Its the margins they are scared of losing. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They'd Apple it up and charge comparatively more, while keeping all the profits to themselves.

    Good. Tesla spends far more than most companies on R&D, and healthy profits will allow them to continue doing that.

  10. Re:My Anecdotal Evidence by brunes69 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You are looking at this from the wrong point of view. The way you should be looking at is, if you ALSO had the option of calling up Ford or GM or whoever your car maker was directly, and asking THEM if they could beat the dealer's price, could they? Of course they could, they make the damn car.

    The idea that dealers create pricing competition for cars is total baloney because dealers don't make cars in the first place, they just mark them up and sell them. Ford competes with Honda and GM, they don't compete with Honda dealers and GM dealers. The thing that keeps the features and functions progressing for Ford while keeping costs low is not their dealer network, it is competition from other auto makers. The only competition dealers are having is who can mark up your car the least.

  11. Re:My Anecdotal Evidence by roc97007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'Everyone' hates the car dealership, and I do too. But, in my recent, personal experience, they have provided me the benefit of price competition. I needed to lease a car and found the lowest price I could find. I then simply called the 'Internet Department' at each of the local dealerships for this particular model, and just asked if they could beat that price. One guy said he could, and I went to him. I don't know if this is possible with purchasing a Tesla. Can different dealerships set their own prices, or, since the dealership is the manufacturer, is the price the same across any 'dealership' within a given geographical area?

    The problem is, all the different prices you got were different amounts of markup from the manufacturer's price. You settled for the least amount of markup you could find. I suspect that all of them would be more expensive than buying directly from the manufacturer, which in the case of Tesla, you essentially are.

    It only seems like a good deal in comparison to worse deals, not because it's actually a good deal.

    "You paid WHAT!!" "But it's ok honey, it was 50% off! Think of the money we saved!"

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  12. manucturer dealers could be worse by Eravnrekaree · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most things are not sold directly by the manufacturer but by retailers. The variety of things that can be bought is too large to have a seperate store for each manufacturer out there, its nice to have product catagories in one place. With smaller objects of lower value, it seems this is strongly preferred. Cars are a very large, expensive item so there is more of a tendancy to have stores that specialize in just them. This sort of reduces the natural retailer/manufacturer seperation.

    The fact is dealers do provide added value, however. The value comes from of course, the lot, of being able to actually see a car before you buy it. The cost of running this will be there whether the manufacturer runs the lot, or whether an independent dealer does. The market does operate to regulate prices for dealers, since its a part of the car price, it can be argued that having independent dealers may give people more choice regarding who has a more efficient lot operation.

    Many aspects of the dealership people find unpleasant will still be there with a manufacturer run dealership. One of them is the credit checks for the loans. Bargaining is not necessarily exclusive to independent dealers but could also occur at a manufacturer dealer. A lot of the qualities of the independent dealer will still be there with a manufacturer dealer, therefore. Since you have no choice of dealers to work with, it could even be worse.

    Maybe people should have the option of a direct buy from a manufacturer, but, a manufacturer locking out independant dealers from providing an alternative is also not a great idea. The vertical integration could be anti-competive and lead to overly monopolistic qualities.