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Perl Is Undead

Ptolemarch writes At the Yet Another Perl Conference beginning today in Orlando, the first keynote squarely blamed Slashdot for starting the "Perl is Dead" meme in 2005. Let's be clear: if Perl was ever dead, it must now be undead. If you can't be at YAPC, you can still watch it live.

6 of 283 comments (clear)

  1. 2005 eh? by jandrese · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't think we're ever going to get as clear of an example of the second system effect as Perl 6. If you asked me back in 2005 if I thought it was going to take more than a decade for the next Perl version bump, I would have said no way. Now I'm wondering if Larry and company shouldn't just ditch Perl 6 and come out with Perl 7, that is basically just Perl 5 with some tweaks to make complex data structures less of a nightmare and better integrate the object model, plus some tweaks around the edges like the implicit /x switch on regular expressions.

    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
  2. "Undead" doesn't mean vibrant, though. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Maybe Perl isn't completely "dead", but it sure as fuck isn't as vibrant of a scene as it once was.

    In the 1990s, Perl was THE BIG THING . It was cool. It was trend-setting. It was what let average programmers and sys admins become superheroes, and it let good and great programmers and sysadmins become ABSOLUTE GODS .

    Knowing Perl was what got you jobs. Knowing Perl was what let you get the hard work done fast. Knowing Perl was essential. If you didn't know Perl, you were SHIT IN A URINAL .

    Perl's got some fierce competitors now. Python can do everything Perl can do, but with a way cleaner syntax. Ruby isn't as capable as Perl or Python, but it has a religious aspect to it that makes some hipsters go absolutely batshit crazy for it. Perl just can't compete against them.

    Yeah, Perl isn't dead, and there are a lot of people who still use it today. But let's not kid ourselves, it's not the 1990s. It's not the GLORY DAYS OF PERL , when it ruled the roost.

    1. Re:"Undead" doesn't mean vibrant, though. by mattack2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Python can do everything Perl can do, but with a way cleaner syntax.

      If only I could turn off indentation==scope. I would pay $20 for this ability (to work in every interpreter, not some special one off interpreter just for me).

      Even *with* that limitation (and yes, I know a million people will respond saying it's oh so great and I just don't get it), I still think Python is pretty decent.. Though it seems to have (seemingly) superfluous colons in a few places, which reminds me of Pascal or BASIC.

  3. Re:Yes, Perl is indeed dead and rotting by johnkzin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Meanwhile, Perl 5 being phased out of system building / admin tools

    Really? what's replacing it? (genuine question ... I haven't seen anything that really fills that niche as effectively nor as completely)

    Perl 5 is still charging full steam ahead in every sysadmin group I've been around. I know there are python advocates out there, but I have only encountered ONE major IT shop that is completely (or nearly so) python driven (and it happens to be Guido's employer -- hardly a good example). Other than that, the most I've seen is _some_ python but _mostly_ perl in any IT shop.

    Sure, language-geeks have been talking about what other language has done a better job of being "a language" for at least 10 years ... but really, anything you can say negatively about perl can be said about bourne shell programming. And, yet, not only did bourne shell dominate *nix sysadmin and package install programming for 25+ years, but it is _still_ being done out there, by some backward luddite sysadmins. Perl has only been dominant in the sysadmin space for less than 15 years ... I wouldn't be surprised if it lasts at least another 10 more. And, really, since it lacks many of bourne shell programming's problems, it'd be reasonable to expect it to keep going for a lot longer than that. Especially as perl 5's evolution continues to slow down and become more stagnant (creating a consistent and stable programming layer ... which has not been true through the entirety of perl 5's lifespan -- there were a few major hiccups there as various sub-systems were refined or changed).

    (to be clear, perl 5 has _existed_ for more than 15 years, but it didn't become really dominant as a sysadmin language of choice, finally eclipsing bourne shell, until the very late 1990's or early 2000's ... probably about the time that y2k issues wiped out anything too old to have/support perl, and the last of many *nix vendors and most linux distro's being sure they included perl in their boilerplate installation, pretty much removing bourne shell's one major claim to fame (ubiquity).)

  4. Re:Yes, Perl is indeed dead and rotting by mbadolato · · Score: 5, Interesting

    More telling is how utterly fast Perl is compared to the other languages. I've run most of the sample files from this language shootout and had remarkably similar results to what they list there.

    The Perl version performed on par with the C and C versions, and it's growth/memory usage stayed pretty consistent throughout. The other languages were horrid. They took much longer, and their memory usage grew significantly during the run.

    I use Perl still when doing scripting tasks. I love Perl, always have. I don't, however, necessarily think it's the right choice for building a medium to large web-based application any more. Sure the performance is there, and there are some great frameworks like Catalyst and Dancer, but to me, they still feel a bit antiquated to some of the other technologies I've used. Plus installing tons of CPAN modules can get a little trying at times.

  5. There's nothing wrong with Perl ... by nut · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... it's just the way people use it.

    Perl was designed as a powerful, flexible, loosely typed scripting language for munging text files and streams, and that's exactly what it is.

    It's great for those scripts that you write for a particular task and never use again after the few days it was necessary. It's also good for writing glue code on occasion, to tie the inputs and outputs of other applications together, and when shell scripting just won't quite cut it.

    The trouble was that it was such a useful scripting language people started writing applications in it. Then they had to jump on the object-oriented bandwagon, which was done clumsily. Sort of like gluing a dog to your horse so it can fetch. And yes, it can be difficult to read, but it doesn't have to be.

    Use Perl for the tasks it was originally designed for. If you're going to write real applications, use a more appropriate language. Don't kick your dog because he can't sing.

    --
    Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, Never drive a car when you're dead