Trio of Big Black Holes Spotted In Galaxy Smashup

sciencehabit writes Astronomers staring across the universe have spotted a startling scene: three supermassive black holes orbiting close to one another, two of them just a few hundred light-years apart. The trio, housed in a pair of colliding galaxies, may help scientists hunting for ripples in spacetime known as gravitational waves.

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[eclectro]

may help scientists hunting for ripples in spacetime known as gravitational waves

Or more accurately, black holes waving.

A four million year orbit

[Thanshin]

just 450 light-years apart and orbit each other every 4 million years.

I can't stop thinking that a four million year orbit means humans will have populated that galaxy before those black holes have completed one more cycle.

We're like smart bacteria inside a human being. We could learn about the season cycle, but but the time winter comes, innumerable generations of our descendants will already have killed our host and traveled to other ones.

Re:A four million year orbit

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope.
We will most likely die on our piece of meaningless dirt before the universe can say "Jack Robinson".
Star trek is high fantasy, not science fiction.

Re:A four million year orbit

[Thanshin]

"What can be more palpably absurd than the prospect held out of locomotives traveling twice as fast as stagecoaches?" - The Quarterly Review, March, 1825.

"That the automobile has practically reached the limit of its development is suggested by the fact that during the past year no improvements of a radical nature have been introduced." - Scientific American, January 2, 1909.

"A rocket will never be able to leave the Earth's atmosphere." - The New York Times, January 13, 1920

"To place a man in a multi-stage rocket and project him into the controlling gravitational field of the moon where the passengers can make scientific observations, perhaps land alive, and then return to earth—all that constitutes a wild dream worthy of Jules Verne. I am bold enough to say that such a man-made voyage will never occur regardless of all future advances." - Lee De Forest, 1957

They are 4.3 billion light-years away. They have already orbited each other a thousand full cycles since the observation (Well, you know what I mean.)
and they will spin another thousand before anything from here can reach them.

Re:A four million year orbit

[Rich0]

Ok, you're right. In automobile technology, in the last century, there have been no fundamental scotsmen. ... I mean... changes.

Why don't you ask the original person quoted what he meant by "radical?" The statement is vague, and anybody can endlessly debate what constitutes a "radical" change.

Presumably when he made the quote cars were in fact changing just as they change today.

The one change to cars that I would consider a fairly radical one is the hybrid. They typically incorporate continuous transmissions, regenerative braking, the ability to operate from power sources, and the ability to recharge. Combining all of those things at once really does get to a level I think most people of that day would consider radically different from their own experience.

But, whatever, the whole "no true scottsman" argument is one of degree and nobody is debating that cars today are better than the cars of yesterday.

Re:A four million year orbit

[Thanshin]

I get your point, but it is pretty speculative to suggest that travel faster than the speed of light will ever be possible. No physical law of nature prevented any of the advances you've quoted - they were just engineering challenges.

No current physical law. All the advances were preceded by a new understanding of how the universe worked. All the advances that will come, will also be preceded by new understandings.

I postulate that the only constant is our own ignorance. I will not argue that we may reach a point where we know everything and thus can't advance any more. I just don't believe that point exists, but I have nothing to support that belief.

Over a span of even thousands of years I'm sure we'll be impressed with what mankind achieves with engineering.

However, I don't think anybody can make any bets either way on whether there are ways to effectively travel faster than the speed of light. There may or may not be new physics out there that we can rely on. We don't get to invent the laws of nature - we can only exploit what we discover, and there may or may not be anything useful to discover.

Oh, I see we did reason in the same direction. Ok, then I agree with you in everything but the "may not be anything useful to discover".

Re:Why did I read that as nipples in space time

[antifoidulus]

probably because the title talks about big black holes and a "smashup".....

Re:Why did I read that as nipples in space time

[mendax]

Perhaps you're channeling Albert Einstein. He saw a lot of nipples in his lifetime that didn't belong to his wives.

Re:Please explain

[Taco Cowboy]

The article states

If the two black holes composing the newfound pair are equally distant from Earth, they're just 450 light-years apart and orbit each other every 4 million years

Can someone explain, or is this a typo? Do they not know if they're the same distance?

I ain't a space scientist, and I hope that what I say is correct --- please correct me if I am wrong --- what TFA is saying is, Black Hole 1 (Point A) and Black hole 2 (Point B) are spinning with each others and we are at a fixed reference point (Point C)

In other words, Point A, Point B and Point C make up a triangle, with Point A and Point B spinning with each other.

What TFA suggests is that when Black Hole 1 (Point A) and Black Hole 2 (Point B) happens to link to the fixed reference point (Point C) in which the distance of AC = BC , the distance of AB = 450 Light Years

As I have said, I ain't a space scientist, if I am incorrect, please correct me, thank you !

Re:Please explain

[PhilHibbs]

If we are looking at the system from "above", like looking down on a plate on which peas are rolling around, then the apparent distance between them is the same as the actual distance between them. If we're looking at them edge-on, then we don't really know how far apart they are. The apparent distance sets the lower bound for the actual distance, but the upper bound is unknown. And yes, there's always a degree of conjecture in astronnomy. All we can really say is that there are three black holes near the centre of that galaxy, and they are almost certainly in orbit around each other.

What people don't seem to understand is, science relies on publishing of un-proven theories. You observe, model, predict, publish, and eventually you will be either proven right or wrong. Without the "publish" step, especially in long-term sciences like astronomy where it could take centuries for a theory to tested (such as, "will that comet return in a hundred years"), you could make a thousand contradictory predictions and then publish the one that happened - by co-incidence - to be correct. If you limit yourself to a single prediction, which turns out to be correct, then you are worth paying attention to. My mum is always saying "Scientists keep getting things wrong, therefore all science is rubbish". Getting things wrong is crucual to scientific progress.

Re:Please explain

[Muad'Dave]

For all intents and purposes, the objects are the same distance from Earth. They're 450 light-years from each other and both are approximately 4.3 BILLION light-years from Earth. The maximum difference in distance between object A and Earth and object B and Earth is 0.000010465116% (450 / 4.3x10^9 * 100). Close enough to the same distance. For reference, the same delta applied to 1 AU (93,000,000 mile Earth-Sun distance) yields 9.73 miles.

Touch this black hole dude

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

I learned one important thing from that web site: It was programmed by yet another clown who feels it's vital to have a menu overlay taking up 25% of my scarce phone screen real estate.

I propose a Constitutional amendment to execute them. Whoever decided tiny screens need to be even tinier deserves it.