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Bye Bye Aereo, For Now

An anonymous reader writes It didn't take long for Aereo to deal with the realities of the U.S. Supreme Court decision. As of 11:30am EDT today Aereo is suspending operations while they go back to U.S. District Court. In order to keep good will with customers during this time, they are refunding the last month's payment for service. curtwoodward (2147628) writes to point out that the decision which has shut down Aereo for now doesn't mean doom for other cloud services: Don't listen to the trolls---the Supremes were very clear that their ruling only applied to Aereo's livestream and things that look just like it. iCloud, Dropbox and friends are fine.

68 of 93 comments (clear)

  1. Listen to the trolls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Supremes weren't as clear as they wanted, hence the lawsuit by Fox against Dish over Hopper the next day.

    1. Re:Listen to the trolls by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      And they will most surely lose... It didn't overturn the cablevision decision.

      That doesn't matter. If the SCOTUS leaves any ambiguity at all, industries will use it to file frivolous lawsuits against their competitors. They may even get idiotic rulings from lower courts if they get lucky and this will make its way back up to SCOTUS again.

    2. Re:Listen to the trolls by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      ...I seem to recall making that same remark myself in response to the first Aereo message posted here.

      Some guy's black robe won't magically prevent everyone from trying to get that rule applied in the lower courts. It will have to be litigated back up to the SCOTUS before 9 guys can declare that "sorry, it doesn't apply to you". Although even that's not assured. By the time it gets back up to the SCOTUS, it could be different guys or case could just come out different.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    3. Re:Listen to the trolls by pla · · Score: 2

      The problem with ignoring the trolls, in this case? They understand the issues involved far, far better than the geriatric asshats on the USSC.

      I didn't use Aereo, so have no skin in this game. But they effectively rented an antenna to people. Not a shared antenna, a private, one-to-one, real live antenna.

      Nevermind Dropbox and the like - This ruling sets a much darker precedent than merely whether or not you can store data you don't strictly "own" in the cloud. Although those seven uselessly-obsolete bastards might not realize it, they have effectively outlawed your neighbor letting you stick your DirectTV dish on his roof because he has a better unobstructed Southern view.

    4. Re:Listen to the trolls by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Only if DirectTV has an issue with it or maybe if your neighbor is an asshole and charges you for it and is also doing this for every other household in the country.

    5. Re:Listen to the trolls by pla · · Score: 1

      Only if DirectTV has an issue with it or maybe if your neighbor is an asshole and charges you for it and is also doing this for every other household in the country.

      DirectTV should have zero say in the matter. And whether my neighbor lets just me, or a million people do the same, how does that materially differ? He has let people use his rooftop to mount an antenna, nothing more, nothing less.

      And there you see the real problem - If it makes sense to allow one person to do it, you can't really discriminate against a million people doing it.

    6. Re:Listen to the trolls by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      I didn't use Aereo

      Neither do I, in fact I had to read this far down the comments to figure out what the hell it was, no hints in the summary.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    7. Re:Listen to the trolls by mysidia · · Score: 1

      DirectTV should have zero say in the matter. And whether my neighbor lets just me, or a million people do the same, how does that materially differ?

      It matters, because THIS is what the court is relying on, in effect.

      They are totally ignoring all aspects of the technological arrangement, including the fact that a dedicated antenna is being rented out.

      And saying.. essentially... if the end-user experience --- the end result -- is the same as with a CATV network, or if your business look like a CATV provider, then you are automatically a cable TV provider..., and therefore, you "perform" the work within the meaning if the law.

      And this performance is deemed to be a public performance, because, the court chooses to ignore any underlying characteristics of the technology -- and look only at what the end result is, which is, that through all the transmissions made by your service, you are broadcasting each program to numerous people who have selected it.

    8. Re:Listen to the trolls by ultranova · · Score: 1

      And there you see the real problem - If it makes sense to allow one person to do it, you can't really discriminate against a million people doing it.

      One person walking across a grassy field is fine. A million people walking across the same field leaves only trampled desolation.

      Welcome to real world, where scale matters.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    9. Re:Listen to the trolls by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      The Hopper case is a bit different because it involves equipment that is clearly customer-controlled. No telling what this court will do, but Hopper is not a pure cloud play.

    10. Re:Listen to the trolls by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Exactly, I was only trying to point out that his analogy was not really very close to the actual case at hand.

  2. Did anyone seriously... by beaverdownunder · · Score: 2

    ...think that was ever going to last? C'mon now... really?

  3. From CEO/Founder Chet Kanojia by djupedal · · Score: 4, Informative

    A Letter to Our Consumers: Standing Together for Innovation, Progress and Technology - An Update on Aereo

    "The world hates change, yet it is the only thing that has brought progress." --Charles Kettering, inventor, entrepreneur, innovator & philanthropist

    A little over three years ago, our team embarked on a journey to improve the consumer television experience, using technology to create a smart, cloud-based television antenna consumers could use to access live over the air broadcast television.

    On Wednesday, the United States Supreme Court reversed a lower court decision in favor of Aereo, dealing a massive setback to consumers.

    As a result of that decision, our case has been returned to the lower Court. We have decided to pause our operations temporarily as we consult with the court and map out our next steps. You will be able to access your cloud-based antenna and DVR only until 11:30 a.m. ET today. All of our users will be refunded their last paid month. If you have questions about your account, please email support@aereo.com or tweet us @AereoSupport.

    The spectrum that the broadcasters use to transmit over the air programming belongs to the American public and we believe you should have a right to access that live programming whether your antenna sits on the roof of your home, on top of your television or in the cloud.

    On behalf of the entire team at Aereo, thank you for the outpouring of support. It has been staggering and we are so grateful for your emails, Tweets and Facebook posts. Keep your voices loud and sign up for updates at ProtectMyAntenna.org - our journey is far from done.

    1. Re:From CEO/Founder Chet Kanojia by gnupun · · Score: 1

      The spectrum that the broadcasters use to transmit over the air programming belongs to the American public and we believe you should have a right to access that live programming whether your antenna sits on the roof of your home,

      The spectrum may be public, but the public does not own the data in the spectrum, (just as roads may be public, but the public don't own the cars on the roads).

      A little over three years ago, our team embarked on a journey to improve the consumer television experience, using technology to create a smart, cloud-based television antenna consumers could use to access live over the air broadcast television.

      Why didn't you obtain retransmission rights for the copyrighted content? Was it to save your company a lot of money?

    2. Re:From CEO/Founder Chet Kanojia by ultranova · · Score: 1

      The spectrum may be public, but the public does not own the data in the spectrum, (just as roads may be public, but the public don't own the cars on the roads).

      No one owns data. Someone might have copyright on it, which may or may not be something other people should care about. I'm inclined to think they shouldn't, because copyright lobby has broken the bargain (limited-time incentive to expand the public domain) and it's actively hindering production of culture in digital era.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    3. Re:From CEO/Founder Chet Kanojia by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      It's to make the company possible at all. The broadcast industry clearly doesn't want Aereo to exist, so the probability that they would have offered retransmission rights at non-ruinous rates is nil.

  4. They where acting like the cable co / CATV by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1, Informative

    but they tried to use an loop hole to get out of paying the fees to the OTA channels for the rights to retransmit.

    Dish, directv, TWC, Comcast, WOW and others likely would of done the same if Aereo won to cut there fees.

    Now Aereo can stay around and do the same thing if they pay the fees.

    1. Re: They where acting like the cable co / CATV by JWW · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The charges that OTA channels get to charge cable companies a purely a protection racket. THAT is what should have been made illegal, not Aereo!

    2. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by Dzimas · · Score: 1

      Why should anyone pay a fee to re-transmit free-to-air TV signals? I understand that cable channels rely on subscription fees to stay in business, but we're talking about the major networks - ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX and PBS - that are broadcast across 94% of the United States at no charge.

    3. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by slimjim8094 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Because there's a law that explicitly says "you need a license to retransmit free-to-air TV signals". I think it's bullshit too and it leads to absurdities like this, but the law is extremely clear. In fact, they wrote the damn thing because there was a company with a centrally-located antenna and a lot of people paid to access its signal over wires. Sound familiar?

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    4. Re: They where acting like the cable co / CATV by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Informative

      The charges that OTA channels get to charge cable companies a purely a protection racket. THAT is what should have been made illegal, not Aereo!

      Take it up with Congress. It's not the job of the Supreme Court to nullify lousy laws unless they fail to pass Constitutional Muster. The Cable Act is Congress exercising its power to regulate interstate commerce, so what exactly do you wish the nine to do about it?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    5. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Informative

      Why should anyone pay a fee to re-transmit free-to-air TV signals? I understand that cable channels rely on subscription fees to stay in business, but we're talking about the major networks - ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX and PBS - that are broadcast across 94% of the United States at no charge.

      Take PBS out of the equation, because they don't get retransmission fees. They're carried under the must-carry doctrine, meaning the cable company has to carry the local PBS station, but in exchange the station doesn't get any direct financial consideration.

      Regarding the other networks, Congress gave broadcasters two choices: must-carry or retransmission consent. Most broadcasters have opted for retransmission consent, because they see it as a source of revenue that offsets their declining advertising dollars. The economics of the broadcast business have changed and it's debatable that it could survive without this source of revenue. Actually it's debatable that it will survive at all in the long term, in its current form, even with retransmission revenue. Broadcasters will continue to be squeezed financially, retransmission fees won't plug the gap indefinitely, and their ultimate future is probably one of even more reality TV crap (it's cheap to produce) and re-runs. Quality original content will be pay-to-play, with the exception of PBS, which will probably manage to survive on the goodwill of its benefactors (here's hoping), though even that isn't a guaranteed thing.

      As far as why Congress set up this ecosystem, you'd have to ask them. They were trying to fix a lot of problems in the marketplace, MSOs were refusing to carry local channels or re-selling them for profit, which was a problem. As is usually the case, Congress managed to create more problems than they solved, and the legislation was actually passed over GHWB's veto.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    6. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by Shakrai · · Score: 2

      Here's an interesting history of the relevant legislation if you're curious.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    7. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      but they tried to use an loop hole to get out of paying the fees to the OTA channels for the rights to retransmit.

      In fact, those are rights to rebroadcast. While technically you would have to describe Aereo as "transmission", what they are really doing is transporting, and they are doing it as your agent.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by PPH · · Score: 1

      The economics of the broadcast business have changed and it's debatable that it could survive without this source of revenue.

      Everything else is moving toward a 'pay for viewer' model. Netflix and others want access to the last mile? Hand the money over to the ISP. Pretty soon, if you want people to watch your local broadcast crap, pay up or no viewers. The middle ground right now is 'must carry'. Its why we have all those shopping networks and whack-a-doodle Christian channels. Local broadcasters can join that club. Make your money selling vacuum cleaners or indulgences like everyone else.

      Aereo was just ahead of its time.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    9. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Aereo was a leech. They were trying to take OTA signals, for free, and retransmit them for profit. There's no "must carry" analogy here, "must carry" implies that the channels are made available for cost (where I live the CATV provider offers local broadcast channels for next to nothing, $4.95/mo last time I checked), not that the CATV provider is marking them up for profit.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    10. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by DewDude · · Score: 1

      Why did congress set it up? Think about this?

      The 1992 Cable Act set up the must-carry; and it's intention was to help get smaller ignored broadcasters on to cable systems with the must-carry provision. The retramission consent was probably foresight. ATSC was working on HDTV standards at that time (which, if you ask me were at least 10 years too early); 8VSB and COFDM were modulation methods looked at. For some odd reason, the FCC adopted 8VSB even though it's technically inferior to COFDM. 8VSB does not handle multi-path very well, if at all. This is a problem just about everywhere, signals bounce. You live in the city, you get signals bouncing off buildings. You live in a rural area; you got signal bouncing off the ground, trees, etc. Why would you use a system that breaks down at the first little reflection?

      Retramission fees.

      Those in power knew that 8VSB modulation, in the long run; would cause OTA TV to fail. You'd get a small percentage of people who got signal; but people who used to get marginal reception don't get it at all. I used to get locals with an antenna; but with all the trees around my house it's no point. I get great signal levels, sure; the problem is the amount of multipath and signal degradation is so severe it's not usable.

      Maybe that's not true...but the fact is; we're using a modulation system that's outright garbage. Majority of people can't get quality reception without expensive antennas or shelling out a lot of money; the day of putting rabbit ears on the TV are largely over. Create a system where people have to switch to a provider, then double-dip on the profits.

      The fact is, no one was sure whether it was legal or not...till the networks got involved. Plain and simple..

      Up next on the chopping block are going to be multi-room DVRs, Slingbox technology, and probably anything that delivers video to your computer. The judgement was not very clear on an even less clear law; and "past-precedent" will be used to get all kinds of new technology illegal.

    11. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by Shakrai · · Score: 2

      Exactly wrong. 'Must carry' means CATV providers pay nothing for the content. This is at the option of the broadcaster.

      Yes, and the broadcaster isn't very apt to agree to that if the CATV provider is marking up the channel, are they? Local broadcast channels are supposed to be made available at or very close to cost, because we decided as a matter of public policy that we wished to keep them in business for all the benefits (real and imagined) provided by them.

      In any case, Aereo was trying to profit off the work of others, without offering them any sort of consideration in return. Why don't you try putting up an antenna and reselling the signal to your neighbors for profit. Do you think such behavior would be regarded as legal or acceptable?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    12. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      Up next on the chopping block are going to be multi-room DVRs, Slingbox technology, and probably anything that delivers video to your computer. The judgement was not very clear on an even less clear law; and "past-precedent" will be used to get all kinds of new technology illegal.

      What are you talking about? Nobody made Aereo's technology "illegal." The Supreme Court simply said that if they want to keep doing what they're doing, they have to pay licensing fees, just like any cable TV company does, and just like streaming services the license content (like Hulu) do.

      Keeping personal copies of over-the-air content to replay for yourself has a long legal history in the courts (going back to VCRs and cassette tapes) -- "private, non-commercial timeshifting in the home" has clearly been an established precedent. It's hard to imagine that idea of recording a VCR tape at home and playing it at home (perhaps on another TV) wouldn't extend to the idea of multi-room DVRs for non-commercial use within your home.

      Now, I suppose you could argue about something like Slingbox, since it requires retransmission through the internet. But on the other hand, if the content is kept private and noncommercial, it could still fall under the previous precedent.

      Anyhow, the point is that Aereo is a completely different sort of case, since it involved a company making a profit (i.e., commercial gain) off of rebroadcasting content to huge numbers of users. That's very different from transferring content you've recorded privately for yourself to yourself... and the Supreme Court explicitly said the Aereo ruling wasn't meant to be interpreted broadly.

      So, while anything's possible, the law is already reasonably clear on such things. No one with half a brain should have thought Aereo could've gotten away with what they're doing under established legal precedent, and no one with half a brain should be concerned that recording and playing a video back for yourself within your own home for noncommercial purposes will be threatened under established legal precedent.

    13. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      PBS doesn't do it for the sole reason that the law forbids non-commercial entities from seeking retransmission fees. Don't think for a second that they wouldn't if they could. Remember, PBS is one of the organizations that launched the original lawsuit against Aereo. They make a ton of money from the sales of their DVDs, and it was their opinion that Aereo was reducing the value of these sales by allowing users to make DVR recordings of them at a very low cost (otherwise your typical DVR costs a lot more than that $8 a month, in addition to to the cost of the DVR itself where applicable.)

      PBS isn't at all the "needy" organization it is frequently made out to be. They make QUITE a hefty sum of money even without donations. Being a non-profit organization doesn't say much about how much money those behind it actually make. Just look at Scientology for example.

    14. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Or to be more precise, the broadcaster can insist on "must carry" but when they do so, they're forbidden from demanding compensation. They could go without either if they choose, or they could completely (at their option) forbid anybody from retransmitting anything. When they do permit or demand retransmission, they're also allowed to dictate to the cable operator where when and how they're allowed to transmit to.

    15. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Informative

      the day of putting rabbit ears on the TV are largely over

      Those days never existed except for those lucky enough to live within a few miles of the transmitters. These people can still use rabbit ears and pull in quality signals. A friend of mine uses the non-amplified version of this, aimed at an inside wall of his house in the direction of the transmitters, and he pulls in the same channels I do. I'm 15 miles out, with a row of trees in the way, so I had to go to one of these, mounted on my back porch, which fortuitously happens to face the transmitters. Growing up I lived about 70 miles out, as the crow flies, and we had to use something like this, on a mast, with in-line amplifiers, and an antenna rotor.

      Regarding 8VSB, current receivers can handle multi-path just fine. You're also overlooking the fact that multi-path was an issue with NTSC as well, leading to ghost images. Digital either works or it doesn't, invest in a quality receiver and proper antenna design (rabbit ears don't count) and you're very likely to end up in the "works" category.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    16. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by fermion · · Score: 1
      So when you drive your car, you should have to pay for every toll road in the country, not just the toll roads you use?

      Here is the difference between Aero and Cable, and the reason the so called loop hole is valid. Cable collects all the broadcasts signals and retransmitts all those signals along to all subscribers. The fee is the right to collect and retransmit en masse.

      There is also and issue of the broadcasters use of the public airwaves. In exchange for this use, it is assumed that the tax payers of this country have access to free programing. Aero is a service that allows us to access that free content. Cable is a service where you buy access to content. Aero is a service where you specify a program to watch, or to record, and that one program is transmitted to you and only you. Cable is a service where all the programs are transmitted to you to be selected in immediate real time, even switch between channels, or channel in channel.

      Here is an example, and everyone can decide if this is illegal. Tivo allows a broad range of remote capabilities. Suppose I opened a service in which I filled a warehouse with Tivos and antennas. End users would enter a contract where they would rent a Tivo and antenna. They would use the TIvo interface to control the content. I would have no control over what was being transmitted. Would that be illegal? What if I built a custom DVR and a custom interface? Would that be illegal? What if I used a Tivo and 'shared' each one so that six different users?

      This is why the ruling is so bad. It reduces our rights to do as we wish with the content that we have given up bandwidth to receive. In excange for use of the the public airwaves, we have the right to free over the air content. That means content that we collect using an antenna and then consumer for personal use. We can record it to VCR, take that tape with us on a trip, and watch it elsewhere.

      The only appropriate thing for the broadcasters to do in response to Aero, it they did not want aero to add a convince for users, is to stop using the public airwaves. Go 100% cable or stream over the internet. This is second major problem with the SCOTUS decision. If broadcasters cannot deal with Aero retransmitted a single show to a single user, and if they have become so dependent on cable, then clearly they are wasting bandwidth that could be used for other purposes. The best thing that could have happened to US, if the broadcasters are as inefficient as it seems, is that Aero put them out of business and then we would have all this bandwidth that can be sold to firms that can use it efficiently. All the SCOTUS has done is save the buggy whip industry.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    17. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      Why don't you try putting up an antenna and reselling the signal to your neighbors for profit. Do you think such behavior would be regarded as legal or acceptable?

      It wouldn't be legal, but only because the law that's at issue here was written in order to make that behavior illegal after somebody did precisely that and it was ruled legal by the SCOTUS (in other words, "so we fixed the glitch"). It's all in the decision.

      Whether it should be illegal is another question. The law as written leads to absurdities like this Aereo case, but you can think of others. Let's remove the motive of profit here (the law doesn't distinguish anyway). My neighbors were going to put up their own antennas, but we all pooled our money and got a nice one up on the hill behind our lots. Is that illegal? Let's reduce the scope - surely I can put my own antenna on the hill, but I can't put a splitter in it for the one guy next door? I'd do it in my own house for multiple TVs, what makes the property line so different? (The law doesn't have a "households" exception.) Or am I breaking the law by splitting my rooftop antenna among 3 TVs? Are the splitters what makes it illegal? Apparently as they just ruled that Aereo's multiple antenna trick (with no splitters) didn't work.

      Basically the law says that putting it on a cable constitutes the creation of a derivative work, but that's just stupid. That's what an antenna *does*.

      In any case, Aereo was trying to profit off the work of others

      Actually I think they're trying to profit on their own work (transcoding, DVR, storage, streaming, client) but let's move on.

      without offering them any sort of consideration in return.

      Except further advertising eyeballs? Keep in mind this is stuff the networks are putting a lot of energy into casting as widely as possible, and can be received for free. They're paying for it with advertising, so I'd think more watchers would help them - no? I mean it certainly couldn't hurt; each person using Aereo or whatever could instead just use an antenna and get the same thing, just less convenient. But I'm pretty sure the broadcasters don't call that particular behavior "illegal copyright violation", they call it "marketshare". (Of course without some kind of an agreement, a cableco shouldn't be allowed to substitute their own ads - that would rightly constitute a derivative work)

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    18. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      You're tacitly equating the organization that gave us Reading Rainbow, The News Hour, and Nova with the organization that gave us Xenu? Seriously?

      Incidentally, there is a difference between PBS and its member stations, whom receive most of the benefit from the pledge drives. I can't speak to the financial situation of PBS, but I do have friends on the board of our local PBS station, and they've never been flush with cash.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    19. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      because there was a company with a centrally-located antenna and a lot of people paid to access its signal over wires.

      Yes. That's what Community Access TV was originally developed for.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    20. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Many older apartment buildings had a common antenna on the roof for a TV, and a lead in your apartment you could attach to your TV.

      I wonder how that would play out in this modern environment, given it was part of your rent, even if not called out explicitly.

      I wonder if modern HD TV is handled in a similar way in any apartment buildings, not that most people would use anything but cable anyway.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    21. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by paiute · · Score: 1

      Aereo was a leech.

      Wrong. I could buy an HDTV antenna and wire it and mount it - or I could pay Aereo to send be a signal from my own rented antenna and get exactly the same mix of local broadcast stations. Aereo was a service I was willing to pay for.

      --
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    22. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by pepty · · Score: 1

      You can put your antenna in your neighbor's yard, or share the same hardware. You're able to receive those broadcasts yourself as long as there is no corporate intermediary controlling your access.

      Where does the "corporate intermediary" show up in the law? Is it still rebroadcasting if the corporation rents/sells me an antenna and a coax cable and that's it?

    23. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by pepty · · Score: 1
      When exactly does it become retransmission/rebroadcasting?

      1. Neighbor lets you rent antenna on his roof, you and he run a coax cable from it to your TV.

      2. Same but more neighbors/antennas.

      3. Same but digitally encoded.

      4. Same but using internet connections as opposed to a cable between the houses.

      5. Same but with a cloud based DVR.

      6. Aereo.

    24. Re: They where acting like the cable co / CATV by mysidia · · Score: 1

      The content is a product and the cable companies profit from that product, and should therefore pay the OTA broadcasters for its use.

      No.... it's OTA. The content is being distributed freely over the air. The cable companies are profiting from value they add in terms of technical expertise, engineering work, the spending of massive amounts of dollars in capital expense to build and maintain infrastructure.

      Some viewers have difficulty receiving the OTA content over the air at the quality they want using their own equipment, or the investment is too much, or they lack the expertise to build large antenna structures and setup gateways to stream their content to themselves over the internet, so they are inclined to subscribe to a service to maintain equipment to receive over the air on their behalf and provide them the technical assistance to receive the freely available content in the manner the end user wants.

    25. Re: They where acting like the cable co / CATV by gnupun · · Score: 1

      No.... it's OTA. The content is being distributed freely over the air.

      So, it's like gpl -- once in the air, it's becomes free to anyone who can read it? Well then, anyone should able to record it and sell DVDs of tv shows too, right?

      Some viewers have difficulty receiving the OTA content over the air at the quality they want using their own equipment, or the investment is too much, or they lack the expertise to build large antenna structures and setup gateways to stream their content to themselves over the internet, so they are inclined to subscribe to a service to maintain equipment to receive over the air on their behalf and provide them the technical assistance to receive the freely available content in the manner the end user wants.

      So why can't your service provider pay for the content it is rebroadcasting for a profit? Aereo thinks it should be able to profit from somebody else's content, but the content providers should not profit from their own content? The OTA broadcast is only for individual consumption -- rebroadcasting or commercial use requires a new license and fees.

    26. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      And transmitting is different from transporting, how?

      Because broadcast is a likely synonym for transmit (and vice versa) but not for transport, and no broadcast is occurring — in fact, precisely the opposite — "transport" is probably a better word to describe what they do.

      Pay the fees or challenge the law mandating the fees in the first place. Aereo shouldn't get a free pass that isn't available to any other commercial operator

      It should be available to all, because they're not infringing upon broadcast rights designed to ensure that content and commercials are delivered together.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    27. Re: They where acting like the cable co / CATV by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

      Two wrongs don't make a right, but very often they make a Supreme Court decision.

      --
      There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
    28. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      It really is that cheap. $4.95/mo for the package + $0.43 in franchise fees = $5.38/mo. It nets you seven channels, contrasted to the nine I get with my OTA rig. It's missing three of the subchannels I get with OTA and includes QVC (thanks for that Time Warner). I believe people with QAM tuners get a few extra channels, which aren't encrypted, but it's been awhile since I've had cable so I'd have to confirm that.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    29. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      You're tacitly equating the organization that gave us Reading Rainbow, The News Hour, and Nova with the organization that gave us Xenu? Seriously?

      No, I'm just giving you an example of why a not for profit doesn't mean there's no profit involved. That isn't used as a means of equating or even comparing the two organizations whatsoever, it's just better describing what exactly not for profit means.

    30. Re:They where acting like the cable co / CATV by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Oh and by the way, PBS president Paula Kerger brings in somewhere north of $600,000 per year annually. He personally was one of those lobbying for the government to put the brakes on Aereo. He also regularly lobbies for more government funding to PBS. That's just to give you an idea of what you defended when you said with regard to this lawsuit, and I quote: "Take PBS out of the equation."

      I hear people rail all day about CEO pay being too much, while these same people often believe that PBS deserves taxpayer funds. That company, believe it or not, is plenty profitable on its own, and indeed receives payment from affiliates every time they air shows like Nova. While the affiliates may or may not make a sizable profit (some do, some don't - some neither profit nor lose, such as AZ affiliate KAET which is funded and run by ASU for example) any donations to those affiliates line the pockets of those behind PBS.

      Sure these educational programs are nice, don't get me wrong, but their motives behind suing to block Aereo don't simply come from the goodness of their hearts; there's definitely a profit motive.

  5. Um by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If they simply delay the stream by a tiny amount, even just a few seconds, the decision no longer applies, because then it becomes timeshifting on behalf of the customer, rather than live retransmission. Am I the only one who sees this loophole?I hope not.

    1. Re:Um by PPH · · Score: 1

      Cut the ads out while you're at it. That should make the networks happy.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Um by EmperorArthur · · Score: 2

      I think it's even mentioned at one point of the Supreme Court's decision. They'll have to do a bit more than that, and only offer pre-recorded programming, but It'll probably be done and, if they have the money to survive the lawsuits, it'll end up before the Supreme Court again. http://nypost.com/2014/06/26/hope-for-aereo-despite-supreme-court-defeat/

      --
      So lets pretend that we've just completed writing this code, as opposed to having just completed sabotaging it -Altera
  6. Kanojia has some work to do by jpellino · · Score: 1

    Got a second customer letter this morning - he's framing it as this is against progress *qua* progress. That sort of approach won't work - he needs to find whatever business model will work with what they want to accomplish.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  7. What the fuck is Aereo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why the fuck do basic tech terms get defined, but "Aereo" has no explanation?

    1. Re:What the fuck is Aereo? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      You expect the /. editors to actually do their job?

      Bwahahaha.

      They have been slacking the day /. started.

      And yes, it sucks that they can't even post a summary to set the context.

    2. Re:What the fuck is Aereo? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

      yeah I was like "WTF is Aereo" also, and had to google for it.

      And the summary mentions the Supremes but does not explain why Diana Ross and the Supremes are involved with a flaky soon-to-be-dead internet startup.

  8. Legislating from the bench by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Let's be clear on what happened here. The supposedly conservative judges modified an existing law.

    They took the text of the law and decided that something that complied with the letter of the law was still in violation "because".

    Because what? Because they thought that the intent of the legislators when passing the law was to ban this type of arrangement. Perhaps so, but that should not be relevant. What should be relevant is the text of the law. What happened was that the Supreme Court essentially re-wrote the law. But more than this, if any law doesn't mean what the text says it means, how can there be any certainty in society?

    As for the claim that this only applies to Aereo, that is either a deliberate lie or great naiivete by the Supreme Court. Already Fox is attempting to use the ruling against Direct TV.

    1. Re:Legislating from the bench by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Troll

      The supposedly conservative judges modified an existing law.

      The three dissents came from the conservative side of the court: Scalia, Thomas, and Alito. Maybe next time you should read the ruling (or even the Wikipedia summary) before you open your mouth? Of course, that wouldn't have meshed with your talking points, so why bother to learn the facts when you can take a cheap shot?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    2. Re:Legislating from the bench by westlake · · Score: 1

      They took the text of the law and decided that something that complied with the letter of the law was still in violation "because".

      Because -----

      Aereo was a community antenna system operating under the thinnest of legal and technical disguises and for CATV the rules have been clear at least since the mid-nineties.

    3. Re:Legislating from the bench by westlake · · Score: 1

      Not a community antenna. One antenna services one person.

      more like a fixed array of antennas serving a great many people.

      and marketed to the same audience that began subscribing to community antenna services in the late 1940s.

  9. 57 channels and nothing on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why do people waste so much energy on TV?

    1. Re:57 channels and nothing on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      TV content has became so bad that even if they offered me a few buck to watch shows, I wouldn't be interested. What passes today as TV really sucks. What they need to do is produce a better product with less ads. As far as Aereo, again for what ? A better way to watch shit TV ? Funny stuff.

  10. Aereo can I at least get my PBS stream? by MindStalker · · Score: 1

    Aereo can certainly stream PBS and other must carry stations legally by this ruling.

    Please Aereo, continue carrying these streams while you work for a solution.

  11. What they should have done... by MMC+Monster · · Score: 1

    What they should have done is lease or sell the boxes to their subscribers and charge a monthly service fee to keep their boxes from being attacked by viruses, etc.

    That way they can't be sued for anything but installing commodity software at the owner's request.

    --
    Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
  12. This by symbolset · · Score: 1

    This is why we can't have nice things.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  13. The geek too clever for his own good. by westlake · · Score: 1

    If they simply delay the stream by a tiny amount, even just a few seconds, the decision no longer applies, because then it becomes timeshifting on behalf of the customer, rather than live retransmission. Am I the only one who sees this loophole?

    The Supremes don't take it well when you try to evade their decisions by resorting to half-assed tricks and gimmicks. Tricks that may be particularly embarrassing to the minority who stood by you the first time around.

  14. Where? by antdude · · Score: 1

    Where != were.

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  15. Re:Talk about being CLUELESS by paiute · · Score: 1

    They weren't renting an antenna.

    You are correct, except that was exactly what they were doing.

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
  16. They should totally restructure their business by mysidia · · Score: 1

    Have one company that "rents" the antenna and provides a Software Defined Radio as a Service offering, where an API is simply provided to provision an antenna controller box which has its own IP address that listens on a specified frequency and bandwidth, compresses the bits, and streams them to the consumer.

    Then another company that makes a box, which integrates with this service and "selects" television channels, from the radio antenna provider who is acting as a common carrier for "capturing signals in the air" and feeding them through across mediums, with no specific knowledge or interpretation of those signals or what data they might represent.

  17. Re:It's not retransmission by gnupun · · Score: 1

    That's retransmission for one person (you). Aereo was doing mass retransmission -- also known as redistribution.