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Lawrence Lessig Answers Your Questions About His Mayday PAC (Video)

We've mentioned this interesting PAC more than once, including when Steve Wozniak endorsed it. The original Mayday PAC goal was to raise $1 million. Now Larry is working on a second -- and more ambitious -- goal: To raise $5 million by July 4. We called for your questions on June 23, and got a bunch of them. This time, instead of asking via email, we used Google Hangout to ask via video. Here's a quote from the Mayday website:'We are a crowdfunded Super PAC to end all Super PACs. Ironic? Yes. Embrace the irony. We’re kickstarting a Super PAC big enough to make it possible to win a Congress committed to fundamental reform by 2016. We set fundraising goals and then crowdfund those goals." Check the Mayday About page and you'll see that a whole bunch of Internet and coding luminaries are on board. You may also notice that they span the political spectrum; this is totally not a partisan effort. | Another quote from the website: "Wealthy funders are holding our democracy hostage. We want to pay the ransom and get it back." Is this an achievable goal? We'll never know if we don't try. | This is Part 1 of a 2-part video. (Alternate Video Link) Update: 07/02 23:42 GMT by T : Here's a link to part 2 of the video, too.

148 comments

  1. The question to me seems to be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What difference does any of these efforts make if the 9-robe court thinks corporate donations and an individual's right to free speech are essentially exactly the same?

    What process defeats an over-arching fail condition like that?

    1. Re:The question to me seems to be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ^do not does + CAPTCHA : atones.

    2. Re:The question to me seems to be... by RavenLrD20k · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's the legislative check and balance to the court. If a congress can be bribed to make an amendment to the constitution that specifies that money, resources, or commodities cannot be equated to speech, then the verdict of the Supreme Court is nullified by the voices that represent the will of the people. The real trick is getting a congress in office that would agree on passing the amendment.

    3. Re:The question to me seems to be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Our only chance is to hope Obama can replace one of the Bush appointees with someone rational.

    4. Re:The question to me seems to be... by jratcliffe · · Score: 2

      That's the legislative check and balance to the court. If a congress can be bribed to make an amendment to the constitution that specifies that money, resources, or commodities cannot be equated to speech, then the verdict of the Supreme Court is nullified by the voices that represent the will of the people. The real trick is getting a congress in office that would agree on passing the amendment.

      Actually, you need 2/3 of both the House and the Senate, plus 3/4 of the state legislatures. Amending the Constitution ain't easy (intentionally so).

    5. Re:The question to me seems to be... by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      you still believe obama can do something rational?? how cute

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    6. Re:The question to me seems to be... by fche · · Score: 1

      "Should be fun."

      Should be a "fun" instant civil war.

    7. Re:The question to me seems to be... by SteveWoz · · Score: 1

      End goal: change the constitution. We need a start. It's easy to see how hard this will be and to give up early, but some of us feel the imperative to fight for it. We can change things. The vast will of the masses (corporation political donations are not equivalent to the free speech we enjoy as individuals) needs to be strategically gathered. Critical mass could take decades, as with things like gay marriage.

      --
      OK a new size TV
    8. Re:The question to me seems to be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. The Supreme Court decided this on First Amendment grounds. It would take a Constitutional amendment or for the Supreme court to reverse itself to change it.

  2. One way to make politics so much more exciting... by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Would be to put it all in youtube videos, right?
    WRONG.

    Sure, videos have their purpose but just give me a damned transcript. I can read a transcript in much less time than it takes to watch some old guy babble, and I can search the text of it as well.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  3. No Thank You by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Written answers are higher quality than spoken. I'm not interested in watching a video. (I thought we'd already covered this? Does anyone really like videos on /. ?)

  4. hook trash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wtf is next, floating download buttons that auto load malware?

  5. wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    the mega-corporations (banking cartel, big oil, defense, etc.) that have our government in their pockets won't be stopped or hindered by this well-intentioned idea. something more drastic would be needed, constitutional amendment using path of national convention and ratifying states

    1. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      something more drastic would be needed, constitutional amendment using path of national convention and ratifying states

      You should be very careful in calling for a constitutional convention. You should be aware that a call to remove the 1st Amendment (in an attempt at limiting who can speak on certain topics) opens the door to a removal of the 4th and 5th, just for starters. You may want to limit the debate to one specific topic, but you can be sure there will be others who will not.

      You should also accept that a constitution that provides protection to people in general is better than one that picks and chooses who and what it will protect, even if there are outliers that stretch the coverage. And that the 1st Amendment was created specifically to protect those outliers, not the "generally accepted appropriate speech".

      Perhaps it is best to accept that protections for your rights also protect others.

    2. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by iggymanz · · Score: 2

      who said anything about revoking the First Amendment? This is not an issue of freedom of religion, speech, assembly or petition.

      We are talking of corruption, of money controlling our lawmakers and executive branch. We are talking of cutting out control by large corporations who have circumvented the democratic process.

    3. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody associated with MayDay is calling for removing the first amendment.

      "accept that a constitution that provides protection to people in general is better than one that picks and chooses who and what it will protect"
      The people part of that sentence is precisely the point.
      IMHO, "picking and chosing" actual human people and excluding corporate 'people' is totally appropriate.

    4. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by CanHasDIY · · Score: 0

      If money == speech (or access to speech, or however you want to characterize it), then it logically follows that more money == more speech. But the Constitution guarantees all persons equal rights under law, so the idea that people with more money have more of a right to be heard runs contrary to that tenement.

      Fact is, there have been a lot of decisions made on a federal level recently, that directly contradict both the spirit and often, letter of the Constitution.

      IMO, what these Mayday people are trying to do is akin to trying to curb NSA spying by installing unsecured IP cameras in their own houses.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    5. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I'm sure they will come up with some equal double speak when they shut you down as well.

      Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean they don't get to spend their money as they see fit. No different then 100 losers volunteering their time.

      Changing the situation requires rewriting the 1st amendment. At least to clarify what 'speech like things' you don't consider speech.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    6. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      who said anything about revoking the First Amendment? This is not an issue of freedom of religion, speech, assembly or petition.

      Nobody did, but that's the risk you take.

      Car Analogy: If you're getting crappy mileage, legislation is like going to the gas station. Maybe you fill up on premium, maybe regular, you might get somewhere between 10-85% ethanol in it, and if it's a gasoline-powered vehicle, you hope you don't get diesel. A constitutional convention is like dumping your car into a shredder and walking onto a used car lot. All that can be said is that you'll drive home in something between a Prius and a Hummer, depending on what the dealer has in stock that day.

    7. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by iggymanz · · Score: 2

      nonsense, you invent a straw man "Changing the situatio requires rewriting the first amendment"

      no, it doesn't.

      a corporation can be stripped of any and all rights, even to exist as legal entity, just for example, and individual liberty remains.

    8. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Money only has control over those who give up their own self control willingly. There is no force, no coercion outside the person who takes the money. You all have this exactly backwards. The true evil is in the desire. This is about revoking the 1st Amendment, overtly, and it sets an extremely dangerous precedent.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    9. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      But the Constitution guarantees all persons equal rights under law, so the idea that people with more money have more of a right to be heard runs contrary to that tenement.

      Equal rights, yes, but not equal outcomes. Everyone has an equal right to speak. That doesn't mean anyone has the right to demand free access to someone else's platform, or to make others listen. Those are things you have to negotiate for on your own, and money is one perfectly legitimate way to do that.

      Free speech is really just one aspect of the more fundamental principle of self-ownership, which includes not only the right to speak freely but also the right to dispose of your own property as you see fit. The focus on free speech, while important, is far too narrow. You should be able to legally donate your own money to the individuals and/or organizations of your choice even when it has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

      The real problem here is that people are easily influenced on things which do not immediately impact them, and yet are encouraged to vote on such issues anyway. Instead, people should have an absolute veto in regards to exactly those issues which negatively impact their rights—where they have both legitimate standing and a direct stake in the outcome. In other words, Unanimous Consent. That way, people don't need to be experts on everything, just those things which concern them. It would mean that politicians would need to work much harder at gaining consensus from everyone affected, rather than mere numerical superiority within a select group of so-called "representatives" who are rarely personally impacted by the bills they pass.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    10. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      a corporation can be stripped of any and all rights, even to exist as legal entity, just for example, and individual liberty remains.

      If you think this is about removing the right of corporations to exist as legal entities, you are woefully naive.

      If you remove the right of corporations to exist because they might be created as an association of like-minded people who want to pool their money to pay for political speech, that is, indeed, a restriction on both the right to free association and the right to free speech -- the very basis of the 1st Amendment. To remove those rights requires a stripping of the 1st Amendment right, and you're doing it because the people who are exercising their rights are saying something you don't like. Know how I can tell? Because you are supporting THIS PAC when they do exactly what they seek to prohibit others from doing.

      And no matter how hard you argue to the contrary, the people who make up corporations cannot be stripped of their right to free speech without you being stripped of the same right.

    11. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Lol.. And as long as the corporations are not dissolved, they have the same or similar liberty as individuals do for the most part.

      And yes, you would have to dissolve all corporations because that is what the court already said, you cannot strip the right of political speech from a corporation, association, or labor union. They also said over 25 years ago in Buckley v. Valeo that spending money is political speech.

      So as long as corporations exist, you either have to change the first amendment to have a constitutional exception or get rid of corporations. I don't think it would be possible to get rid of associations or labor unions so we are back to the constitution.

    12. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      I only give as example, one of many possible scenarios

      we can certainly do anything to a corporation, strip anything from it, by law, without impact on individual liberties

    13. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      wrong, a corporation can be deprived of any wealth or liberty or freedom by law, since they only have existence by mere law. they are very different from humans in that regard. They could be demoted to a kind of businesss not much different than mom and pop shop

    14. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      nonsense, not about revoking first amendment, corporations were created by law and thus can be altered or destroyed (for example, by demoting to merely type of business) by law or amendment

      money being used to corrupt government is the issue, we can take away the feeding tube for evil desire by those in government, we can attract a different kind of person to be in government

      you are being a shill for corporate fascism, somehow equating a corporation with a person. they are not humans, they are not born with inalienable rights and liberties. we can keep the bill of rights, and deny it to corporations

    15. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Yes, they could.

      And the owners could still spend their money on politics.

      Note that stripping corporation status from a business does NOT remove its money. It just changes (possibly) who is in control of the money. And the (hypothetical) new owners of the money can still spend it on politics....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    16. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      contrary to that tenement.

      Not sure where slums fit into your argument, so I'm assuming you meant "tenet"....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    17. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      such people become more limited in what they can do without corporation and corporate rights. and there is more that can be done to individuals to fight corruption

    18. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      They cannot be deprived of wealth of liberty or freedom by law. They can be dissolved- corporate status can be removed, but not deprived of wealth without just compensation as the constitution says and not deprived or liberty or freedom without due process unless everyone one is because everyone enjoys equal protection under the law.

      You are assuming that corporations have no constitutional rights. You are wrong as the supreme court already pointed out. Now, it is true that corporations can be regulated in ways people cannot but that is only because they stretched the interstate commerce clause to include everything but the kitchen sink. Most all corporations are incorporated under a state statute which means that the feds cannot really do much to their corporation status either without stretching the constitution.

      So you remove corporate status somehow, they are still an association and can still function like a corporation and still enjoy political speech rights just like the court said. All a corporation does is allow the owners of a company to separate themselves from actions of the company they did not participate in and set a standard for a board to government the company in the interests of the company. There is nothing magical about a corporation other than people can own it who may not even know what it does. A corporation gives a company a level of autonomy and little more.

    19. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is a speech issue because the talk is all about limiting the people who can speak and the avenues they can use to speak,

    20. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Not if that corporation was formed "as an association of like-minded people who want to pool their money to pay for political speech" This whole movement was started as a way to "repeal" the one decision that pointed out that this absolutely was a first amendment right. The right to associate is an individual liberty that can only be exercised in conjunction with others.

    21. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Well, the constitution guarantees equality and it is far easier for everyone to live in a tenement than a mansion.

    22. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      If you strip a corporation of its assets its value goes to zero. You thereby strip its owners, the stockholders (which may include me) of their property. That severely impacts my individual liberties.

      Please think before posting.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    23. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      who said anything about revoking the First Amendment?

      A large group of Democrats in the United States Senate are currently working on repealing the First Amendment and replacing it with something weaker and less explicit.

      It has long been thought that the political right is the major force behind censorship, a notion reinforced by the attempts, some successful, to prohibit anti-religious and grossly sexual material. Prohibition of political communication is increasingly the realm of the political left, and it is far more dangerous.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    24. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      The fact the it is called MayDay is all that is needed to determine its political orientation.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    25. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... falling out of the air towards the ground?

    26. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      I find it impossible to argue with people who foolishly believe money has any intrinsic value aside from man's desire for it. It doesn't make any difference where it comes from. And you can always revoke a corporate charter, a much better alternative to violating free speech rights. The fascists are you who want to regulate speech and how it is practiced. You're thinking like a regular prohibitionist. Find and elect people who can resist temptation. That is your duty to the country, if you care for it. Don't poke their eyes out so they won't be tempted.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    27. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by MarciaEverett · · Score: 1

      Corporations did not always have rights to collect money for elections. So stripping them of this right just puts them back in their place. Where they had to be voted on every few years to see whether they could keep their incorporation papers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... Legalize Democracy on youtube

    28. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by MarciaEverett · · Score: 1

      An association of like minded people can get together and TALK and then decide they are going to cast their vote the same way, or go out on a stroll and stand on a street corner and espouse their point of view. They don't need money. to influence the vote for a candidate. They can create fliers to address an issue. Keep money OUT OF ELECTIONS.

    29. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by MarciaEverett · · Score: 1

      Obviously if the law changes there will be a time period for corporations to adjust to the new law. I think we are talking about whether or not to change the law back to what it used to be. And perhaps even further so that only PEOPLE have a say in elections and so that all PEOPLE are EQUAL regardless of the amount of money they have. How do we make the voice of a homeless person equal to Bill Gates is the question. The answer is PUBLICLY funded elections.

    30. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by MarciaEverett · · Score: 1

      Equal rights, yes, but not equal outcomes. Everyone has an equal right to speak. That doesn't mean anyone has the right to demand free access to someone else's platform, or to make others listen. Those are things you have to negotiate for on your own, and money is one perfectly legitimate way to do that.

      DEMAND FREE ACCESS TO SOMEONE ELSE'S PLATFORM: Like When your boss has a conversation with you when you're at work or When a rich person or group takes over your television viewing with advertising, or when your church or other so-called non-political group begins talking politics.

      I vote for NON-PROFIT POLITICS. Let the candidate state their case, and let me hear it and decide. No advertising sell which we all know advertising is artificial persuasion to make you buy something you don't want or need, No bigger better brochures, posters, billboards bombarding me everywhere. Come to the debate. answer the questions and I will decide. Feel free to walk the nation and give speeches at public school auditoriums or on the street corner. This a homeless candidate can do. No one should be able to do anything more than a homeless, jobless candidate can do. Otherwise it's not equal.

    31. Re:wealthy funders can't be eliminated that way by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      An association of like minded people can get together and TALK and then decide they are going to cast their vote the same way, or go out on a stroll and stand on a street corner and espouse their point of view.

      In other words, a group of individuals have fewer first amendment rights to free speech than any individual, despite no such limit being found in the constitution anywhere. You'd limit some folks to soapbox first amendment rights, while others have unfettered ability to purchase airtime and express their views. Do you really not understand how this hands control of the public fora over to the richest people and strips it from any possible use by the poorer folks? If you can afford a national advertising campaign using your own bank account, that's fine, but those who would group together to pool their money cannot be allowed to speak in the same way? Do you not realize how dangerous that becomes as a precedent for free speech as a whole?

      They don't need money.

      In the world the rest of us live in, money is necessary to pay for effective free speech. You can limit people to standing on a street corner, but that also limits their ability to be heard. How does that differ in any significant way from the "free speech zones" that were objected to on first amendment grounds during previous political cycles? "You can speak, but only over there where nobody can hear you ..." is what you think meets "shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech"?

      They can create fliers to address an issue. Keep money OUT OF ELECTIONS.

      You contradict yourself, unless you truly are trying to limit the right of someone to "create fliers to address and issue" to people who own printing companies. Otherwise, money is required to pay for the fliers ...

      Keeping money out of elections is truly a limitation of political free speech, which was one of the things the founders specifically did NOT want to have the government limiting. Maybe you're just confused over the two different meanings of "free" -- one is "free as in costs nothing", the other is "free as in unfettered". The former is not what the constitution refers to, and the latter happens to require money to be truly effective.

  6. Transcript Please by TheNastyInThePasty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Come on, guys. Post the damn transcript instead of a stupid video.

    --
    The best thing about UDP jokes is I don't care if you get them or not
    1. Re:Transcript Please by oneiros27 · · Score: 1

      I found instructions on how to get a transcript from the automatic closed captioning of YouTube videos. Unfortunately, the instructions are in a YouTube video:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

      Of course, I have no idea what they're using for the video hosting -- I just see 'Missing Plug-in'. The 'alternate link' tells me that I have to install Flash ... like hell I will.

      --
      Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
    2. Re:Transcript Please by MobyDisk · · Score: 2

      Below the video is a button that it says "Hide/Show Transcript." Clicking on that shows me the transcript. Thinking it was something Firefoxy, I just tried it in Chrome and IE too.

    3. Re:Transcript Please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That link wasn't there initially. It was added a few minutes after the article was posted to the front page.

  7. Re:One way to make politics so much more exciting. by RavenLrD20k · · Score: 1

    I second that motion!

  8. One Question: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why should we expect you to be any different than all the other politicians?

  9. Outspend the mega-corps? by captaindomon · · Score: 1

    So we're going to win against the mega-corporations by outspending them? The top five companies in the US alone bring in 1.4 trillion USD/year in revenue. It would take them less than two minutes to match this new, larger goal.

    --
    Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
    1. Re:Outspend the mega-corps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's true this appears to be a David vs Goliath situation, in terms of spending.
      However, MayDay intend to be highly focused on electing candidates that support the constitutional amendment.
      They're flying the x-wing fighter over the exhaust chute and dropping the warhead on a vulnerability of the current scheme of things. Difficult, but not impossible.

  10. Re:Fundamental reform? by Wizardess · · Score: 1

    It would be nice if "fundamental reform" was defined, wouldn't it? I basically do not trust vague platitudes such as "fundamental reform". They must tell me specifically what they plan. Is it more government to "protect me" or is it "get the friggin' government out of my face?"

    I've rather had it up to here with oppressively huge government. Let's try small government for a change. It worked when we did it that way. It's better than "more of the same old same old" we've been doing of late, R and D both.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    {^_^}

  11. SlashTube? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't come to /. to watch videos.

  12. Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd like to debate you here, but frankly, I just looked at their actual site.

    Zero information.

    Blah blah blah - vague idea - blah blah blah, "fundamental reform". The hell does that mean?

    No, I'm not watching a bunch of YouTube videos from talking heads to find out. So I'm just going to have to assume you're correct. Here's a bunch of fools who want to keep doing the same broken stuff that they've been trying over the past eight years.

    "People won't be late for work though, because the governor lady said, "I'm sending in more trains!" (Another train crashes into the wreckage causing a massive explosion)

    Thanks, but no thanks.

  13. Re:Fundamental reform? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 0

    It would be nice if "fundamental reform" was defined, wouldn't it? I basically do not trust vague platitudes such as "fundamental reform".

    The way I see it, if you're trusting anything anyone in a political arena says, you're doing it wrong.

    Actions, as always, speak louder.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  14. Hilarious Irony by CanHasDIY · · Score: 0

    The front page of Mayday's site says in big, bold print:

    Help us reduce the influence of money in politics!

    Right above a big, red GIMMEMONIES! button.

    That's funny.

    What's hilarious are the 2 possible motivations I see: 1) they're actually trying to 'reduce the influence of money in poltiics...' by introducing a shit-ton of money into politics, or 2) they're fleecing suckers under false pretenses.

    Maybe I just have a weird sense of humor.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    1. Re:Hilarious Irony by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why is it ironic? The whole point here is that money has undue influence in politics, so in order to effect political change (including the reduction of that influence!) you need money. It's trying to beat the system with the tools that are empowered by that system.

    2. Re:Hilarious Irony by CanHasDIY · · Score: 0

      It's ironic because their position seems deliberately contrary, and I find the result amusing.

      It's trying to beat the system with the tools that are empowered by that system.

      Colloquially known as "fighting fire with fire."

      Which is also ironic.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    3. Re:Hilarious Irony by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not really. If you want to force someone to lay down their weapon, you'll have to use weapon yourself. If the one that they use happens to be the most efficient in the circumstances, then you'd do well to pick the same. It's not really ironic, it's just the way the world works.

    4. Re:Hilarious Irony by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is ironic.

      Go to Google and search for "Define ironic"

      Then read the, I think it was the second, definition.

      It's almost verbatim the rationale I posted (better be, I C&P'd most of it).

      You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Now please stop arguing about it, as you've succeeded in ruining the humor.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    5. Re:Hilarious Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hence:

      We are a crowdfunded Super PAC to end all Super PACs.
      Ironic? Yes. Embrace the irony.

    6. Re:Hilarious Irony by Jahava · · Score: 1

      Why is it ironic? The whole point here is that money has undue influence in politics, so in order to effect political change (including the reduction of that influence!) you need money. It's trying to beat the system with the tools that are empowered by that system.

      This reminds me of Richard Stallman leveraging copyright law to essentially enforce restrictions on liberties traditionally associated with it (Copyleft).

      It's the strength of a vested established system that is also its weakness: it's so strong that only thing that can defeat it is itself.

    7. Re:Hilarious Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      @ SHUTDOWN-
      thank you, i have been pointing out this paradox since it was first announced: we're going to 'get money out of politics' by OUT-BRIBING the 1% who have MOST of the planet's resources at their disposal ? ? ?
      i'm sorry, this is NOT one of those ideas that is 'just so screwy it might work'; it just seems like we are upping the ante and making it MORE DIFFICULT for the 99% to have influence: YOU ARE CONCEDING MORALITY AND PLAYING THEIR GAME ! ! !

  15. Re:One way to make politics so much more exciting. by Roblimo · · Score: 3, Informative

    The transcript for this video was a little late, but it's up now.

  16. It isn't irony by Obfuscant · · Score: 1
    I would not call it ironic. I would say it recognizes the fact that money is necessary for effective speech (not money==speech as many misquote the decision to mean) and this PAC is trying to do the same thing that Citizens United did -- get a bunch of people together to pool their money for effective political speech.

    I would call the attempt at stripping the rights of people to that freedom of association and speech using such a group to be hypocritical, not ironic. And I say the same thing about Move To Amend, where the specific goal is to remove the right to free speech from people they disagree with using the same tactics they allegedly disagree with.

    1. Re:It isn't irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Five million bucks is FAR from a shit-ton of money in a context where over a billion was spent on the last presidential election.
      And, in fact, if their goals are reached they would obsolete themselves, and that's just fine with them.

      It's not ironic at all, and while it recognizes that apparently Big money is necessary for effective speech _in_the_current_system_ they want to change that.

      Elections in the U.K., while not perfectly democratic are starkly different because of serious limits on who can spend how much on elections.

      Democracy, remember? That's what this is about. One person, one vote.
      Eliminate corporate influence. The people who run corporations deserve no more vote than anyone else.

    2. Re:It isn't irony by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Eliminate corporate influence. The people who run corporations deserve no more vote than anyone else.

      They don't get "no more vote" than anyone else. And you're right, it isn't irony. I said that in the Subject.

    3. Re:It isn't irony by guises · · Score: 1

      The point where you went wrong is when you threw in the word "effective." Freedom of speech doesn't mean that you have the freedom to do whatever it takes to persuade people to do what you want. The free speech rights of Citizen's United was never in question, the issue was that they wanted to violate campaign finance law by using money in order to make their speech louder and more effective than other peoples' speech.

    4. Re:It isn't irony by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      The point where you went wrong is when you threw in the word "effective." Freedom of speech doesn't mean that you have the freedom to do whatever it takes to persuade people to do what you want.

      That is not what "effective" means in this context. It means the ability to actually be heard. Not forcing people to hear you, that's something else. It means that your message is available to people.

      You can have "free speech" as in beer by telling someone they can stand on a soapbox on the corner. This isn't effective free speech because the range is deliberately limited. Being able to pay for the "free speech" and buy a radio spot is effective because it puts the message where people can actually hear it. That's why effective free speech requires money.

      The free speech rights of Citizen's United was never in question,

      Oh, absolutely the rights of the CU people were involved, free speech especially. If they could not be allowed to pay for airtime for a political message, then their right to free speech was being infringed. "You can speak all you want, as long as you can't be heard by anyone" is just as much a violation of the first amendment as "you cannot speak at all".

      the issue was that they wanted to violate campaign finance law by using money in order to make their speech louder and more effective than other peoples' speech.

      Well, campaign finance law has serious first amendment issues attached to it, so it should be no surprise that a lawsuit based on that law might include issues of free speech. And no, it wasn't to be MORE effective, and it certainly wasn't to be louder, it was to have the same kind of effectiveness. They were paying to air a movie. On TV. Where someone might actually see it.

      So, apparently, it is ok if someone can pay for such airtime out of his own pocket, but not if twenty people pool their pockets to pay for it. Why shouldn't those twenty people have the same first amendment rights as the rich guy who can afford to pay for his speech on his own?

    5. Re:It isn't irony by guises · · Score: 1

      So, apparently, it is ok if someone can pay for such airtime out of his own pocket, but not if twenty people pool their pockets to pay for it.

      Is this one of those, "If you can't do everything perfectly then you shouldn't do anything at all?" It's true that McCain-Feingold only dealt with corporations. It's true that it was not the end-all of campaign finance reform. So what? The law still had a big impact, and a positive one if you're someone who cares about the corrupting influence of money. Soft-money spending (outside organizational spending) tripled between the 2008 and 2012 elections.

      Your concern about "the rich guy" getting heard where the paupers contributing to Citizens United are ignored is misplaced - they're all rich guys. PACs are for rich people and no one else. Anyone with less than $5,000 to contribute just gives it directly to the candidate's campaign. Further, your implication that corporate political spending is just a bunch of like-minded people pooling their money is ridiculous. If I work for Comcast does that mean that I hate anti-trust law and net neutrality? When Comcast spends the tens of millions of dollars that it spends on politics, is it representing me or is it representing just the few people at the top who control how the company spends its money?

      Yes, McCain-Feingold blocked spending by non-profits and unions as well as for-profit companies. Some few of those might have been groups with legitimate political interests as you describe. Doubtless those just told their members to make political contributions directly, thereby ensuring that their members still had their speech intact. And if the organization itself can't speak? Companies don't (shouldn't) have first amendment rights.

      Ultimately the best argument against the Citizens United decision is to simply look at its consequences - the vast leap in political spending, with so much of it from completely unaccountable anonymous donors.

  17. Re:One way to make politics so much more exciting. by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

    There's a Hide/Show transcript button just below the video.

  18. WTFAYAWSIC? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    who the fuck are you and why should i care?

  19. Re:One way to make politics so much more exciting. by damn_registrars · · Score: 0

    There's a Hide/Show transcript button just below the video.

    That is not particularly useful, though. The Hide/Show transcript button displays the transcript in real-time, with the video. I can't search the text of it, and I can't go through it more quickly with my own eyes than the speed that the people in the video are speaking.

    In other words, it is mostly a waste of time. It takes the same amount of time to watch a video with transcript as it does without.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  20. Re:Fundamental reform? by Bodhammer · · Score: 1
    --
    "I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
  21. Re:Fundamental reform? by iggymanz · · Score: 2

    this issue has nothing to do with who is president, nor can any president solve the problem. remember Douglas Adam's words, the purpose of a president is not to wield power but merely to distract attention from those who do.

  22. Not encouraging by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

    So, not only did he dodge the hard questions (about the difficulty of getting money out of politics without silencing people who want to spread a message), he did it in the least accessible way!

    Transcript?

    --
    Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
  23. Wealthy funders are holding our democracy hostage. by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Absolute nonsense! The voters voluntarily hand it to them on a silver platter. The power to render the money useless lies in your votes, not in legislation that will inevitably be corrupted by the same politicians that are owned. From their point of view, there is no reason to change anything. The present system has its rewards, and the voters are the only ones that can change that, but only if they desire it. Legislation is not a slippery slope, it's a cliff, and the lemmings are heading right for it.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  24. Re:One way to make politics so much more exciting. by MobyDisk · · Score: 5, Informative

    That is not particularly useful, though. The Hide/Show transcript button displays the transcript in real-time, with the video

    No it doesn't. It displays this:

    Tim: Larry, one of our readers has asked: What do you think if you reach all the goals that you have right now for the Mayday PAC, what will prevent lawmakers from finding other loopholes in laws that do something that’s similar but not quite the same as campaign contributions. We’ve seen it with FISA and DMCA that people can’t necessarily get some sort of legislative advantage—they’ll try it again and try it again the next year. So if you get rid of all corporate money in government, do you think that’s the only avenue for undue influence? What is the answer to someone who says that this isn’t enough to really remove that sort of influence in government?

    Larry: So there is an idea good enough for government work that I think we need to embrace and understand. It is a standard way below the standard of typical technologists. It is a standard that’s hard for, I think, technologists to accept—but here’s the idea: If we change the way elections are funded, we will give Congress a chance to actually think of something other than what the big funders care about, when they make a decision. Now they could still make the wrong decision—they could still make a stupid decision. They can still make a completely biased or ill-informed decision. There is no guarantee that this creates good government. But what it does do is give them the freedom, ‘the freedom to lead’, as Buddy Roemer used to say. Because they are no longer focused on what this tiny tiny fraction of the 1% care about. So nothing we are offering is about perfection. We are offering the first necessary step. To get us out of the pathology that we are in right now.

    Tim: Okay. So another critical and this one is a slightly different type of critical questions that a lot of our readers have, and I think this is also widespread, is they object to the idea of regulating the money that can be given to a political campaign, and they say that that is equivalent to speech; one reader asks, and I am going to say that this is somewhat facetiously, that aren’t you in that way, also calling for a prohibition of documentaries of the political bench, or books written by politicians who are in favor of a particular candidate? Distinguish the way money per se as a campaign contribution in that form is different from other forms of material support, and why it is that it is okay to limit contributions to a certain dollar amount for a person or group as opposed to other ways that people influence political campaigns themselves.

    Larry: Great question. So the Mayday PAC is aiming at changing the way elections are funded. And the proposals that we pointed to don’t necessarily do anything directly about limiting people’s capacity to spend their money to speak.

    Tim: But then we already have such restrictions anyhow with campaign contribution limits.

    Larry: Right. But we are not focused on restrictions—we are focused on increasing the range of people who participate in the funding of elections. So there are two basic models that we’ve got: One is the voucher program—you can see it at reform.to—a voucher proposal, where every voter is given a voucher that they use to fund small dollar elections. The other is matching grant where you give a small contribution—it’s matched up to 9:1—that’s John Sarbanes’ proposal. Those two proposals don’t restrict anybody’s ability to contribute anything. Or don’t restrict people’s ability to spend their money speaking at all. All this is doing is making it, so candidates don’t spend all of their time literally 30% to 70% of their time, focused on the tiniest fraction of the 1%. So there are lots of people out there who are talking about much more r

  25. 5million? pocket change by awoodby · · Score: 2

    I don't see how their $5 million is even a drop in the bucket compared to the couple billion the big money donors will bring to field in the election. We can't fight them with money.

    --
    People make me pro-nuclear.
    1. Re:5million? pocket change by Roblimo · · Score: 1

      Yes, pocket change in a national election. But as Larry said, they're only trying to influence a few Congressional races this year, and more of them in 2016.

  26. Why would Congressmen vote to end being bribed? by maroberts · · Score: 2

    It would be like turkeys voting for Thanksgiving.

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

  27. Re:Fundamental reform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are we talking about the same guy who said today that if congress won't change immigration laws, he will do it alone?
    But when the NSA is reading our email...well there's nothing he can do about that.
    Every president for the last century has grabbed more power than the one before him, this one is no exception. Fortunately he's probably going to be gone after the next election cycle, depending on how many rules he can change before then.

  28. The only way to end "big money" politics by netsavior · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The only way to stop Koch brothers and various BribeLaunderingPacs from throwng hundreds of millions of dollars at elections is for it to cease to be cost-effective to do so. The first time money doesn't make a difference, it will no longer be an issue. Free flow of information is a significant step.

    300 million "average" people each donating as much as they possibly can afford, cannot even hope to match the BribePac power of a single Walton or Koch.

    It is 100% fruitless to attempt to fight them on this arena, the only thing we can hope to do is defeat them with unlimited free press (via the internet)... which is a huge longshot, but at least it isn't mathematically impossible,

    1. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      About 120M people will turn out to the polls in 2016.

      With the Koch brothers combining for about .4BN in political contributions, each voter would have to pony up $3.50 or so to match them.

    2. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fruitless? Maybe, but you got a better idea or should we just sit around and wait for things to change for us.

      I donated money. I am doubtful of its effectiveness but if we don't try we'll never find out. Other than a fruitless attempt and some financial losses I don't see that much of a downside. Certainly a lot better than an armed revolution.

    3. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by sumdumass · · Score: 0

      Unless you discount those voters who would already agree with the Koch brothers and not participate. that's likely 45% or better considering the divide in the country.

      Plus, May Day is the wrong name for this. It reminds me of the communist celebration marking the start of first red scare in the US with the bloody Chicago strikes in which most communist countries parade around and celebrate. It took me a long while to figure out these guys weren't reliving the glory days of the Soviet Union. Not too many other people with half a clue would give them that much time or effort before dismissing them as some fringe communist platform worthy of being ignored until it appears they are doing something significant then actively fighting again.

      These aren't stupid people so I'm wondering why they picked a name that could be (mis)interpreted like that.

    4. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Interesting that you don't mention Bloomberg or any other of the left-leaning billionaires who are throwing money at politics....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    5. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      The name isn't "May Day", it's Mayday.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    6. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Potato patahto. Tomato Tomahto.

      People often say if it walks like duck, sounds like a duck, it might be a rabbit. Seriously, even if they spelled it Maeday, it would still stoke the similarities and memories. They would have been better off calling it the SOS PAC or something.

      Here is another.. what is the difference between a lesbos and lesbian? One is an island and the other is the people from that island. Yeah, even if you didn't, most people thought something else first.

    7. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their direct contributions are only a tiny fraction of their power. They wield cashflows and assets far larger than that, and have for decades, and can promise to continue to do so for decades. They can make or break the labor market in a major city in a Senator's home state. They can send millions in contracts to firms in the home state of another. They can alter global markets to influence people's opinions and emotions in favor of legislative agendas. The $400 million is just the tip of the iceberg.

    8. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not about money. This is about getting mindshare. People in general aren't even considering election reform, because they "think" it's impossible. When some crowdfunding effort raises $1m, makes headlines, the zeitgeist will shift.

      The occupy movement was doomed to failure, too. But it got discussion of the 1% into the public, when nobody was looking at it, nobody thought it was possible. You have to prepare the ground.

    9. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Plus, May Day is the wrong name for this. It reminds me of the communist celebration marking the start of first red scare in the US with the bloody Chicago strikes in which most communist countries parade around and celebrate.

      You see the word "mayday," as in "Mayday, mayday, mayday. We have lost engine power and are taking on water. Request immediate assistance," and mentally transcribe that to the translation of a foreign holiday name? Your partisan blinders may be reducing blood flow to your brain.

    10. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Yes, that is 100% correct. I saw a political group talking about political measures and my mind immediately went to a political holiday in communist countries due to the same name being used.

      How is that partisan?.

    11. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Potato patahto. Tomato Tomahto.

      It's not a difference in pronunciation, it's 2 completely different terms. One of them is "May Day", written with a space, it's 2 words, and refers to a holiday. The other one is "Mayday", without a space, 1 word, an international distress call that has nothing to do with the holiday. You see socialism because you're looking for socialism. There is no connection. It also has nothing to do with lesbians, I'm not sure what the point of even posting that was. You are making a false association where none exists. The only significance is that the PAC was launched on May 1, but they still did not call it "May Day". It is "Mayday PAC" or "MAYDAY PAC" depending on where they print it. It is never "May Day PAC", so it is disingenuous for you to say the name is "May Day". It isn't. Again, this is not a difference in pronunciation, when you typed that name out you actually pressed a key to insert a space where there shouldn't be one, thus changing the name to something that it's not.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    12. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice choice of examples that give away your political leanings.

      You act as if this is all one-sided, like it's all Waltons and Kochs, and ignore the Soros', the Buffets, the Gates', and others.

    13. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I'm not drawing you a picture. If they are so similar that you just had to spend a second entire post describing the differences, my point still stands- people will confuse the one with the other and ignore it until it gets going and then without looking into it, fight against it.

      Why do I know this? Because it happens all the time. It's like when John Stewart explained that a SOFA agreement being talked about with Iraq was an agreement on how long you can crash on somebody's couch before having to pay rent. the joke only worked because it was similar but different and you knew there would be a couple of people going "right on brother" until he explained the rest of the story.

    14. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      People who hear the word "mayday" and think "socialism" instead of "distress" are probably not exactly the target audience here.

      without looking into it, fight against it

      and they're also willfully ignorant, and probably relatively stupid.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    15. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      People who hear the word mayday and politics will think communist Russia- that is if they know anything about the cold war.

      Willfully ignorant, I will give you. Stupid I cannot. It is a legitimate thought process to anyone who who lived through the cold war. It drives half the country's knee jerk hatred against socialism today.

    16. Re:The only way to end "big money" politics by MarciaEverett · · Score: 1

      The only way to stop Koch brothers and various BribeLaunderingPacs from throwng hundreds of millions of dollars at elections is for it to cease to be cost-effective to do so. The first time money doesn't make a difference, it will no longer be an issue.

      Voting Green would be the way to do that.

  29. Re:Fundamental reform? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Let's try small government for a change. It worked when we did it that way.

    :-) When was that? I must have slept through that time...

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  30. Re:Fundamental reform? by mjm1231 · · Score: 1

    the First Amendment?

    "This freedom is widely acknowledged—except by the case’s critics—to be at the very core of the First Amendment. If the First Amendment protects anything, it protects freedom to engage in political speech. And when speech is protected by the First Amendment, so is spending money to speak."

    While I believe the first two sentences of this argument are be true, I see no logical reason to infer the final sentence, which I think is false. This being the case, I find entire line of reasoning invalid.

    --
    Ideology: A tool used primarily to avoid the bother of thinking.
  31. Re:One way to make politics so much more exciting. by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    Thank you! I must have hit the wrong button, or perhaps it doesn't work correctly on my browser.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  32. Mayday.us Needs A Civics Lesson by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

    If these celebrities and other chuckleheads really want to fix the government, they should probably start by retaking freshman Civics and learning what sort of government the Constitution sets forth.

    To wit - the word "democracy" appears at least 4 times on the main page, but the word "republic" doesn't even appear once.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  33. Re:Fundamental reform? by mi · · Score: 1

    This being the case, I find entire line of reasoning invalid.

    I too found the page to be rather hard to process. The reason I linked to it was to illustrate, that the issue discussed is, indeed, directly connected to the First Amendment and that those unhappy with it would have to modify the Amendment itself.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  34. Re:One way to make politics so much more exciting. by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

    You are welcome. Are you using Slashdot Beta? I am on the old one. I tried it in IN, FF, and Chrome and it did the same thing. But somehow it always serves me the old-skool design even though I am not logged-in on 2 of those 3 browsers.

  35. Bribery represents the will of the people? by westlake · · Score: 1

    Actually, you need 2/3 of both the House and the Senate, plus 3/4 of the state legislatures. Amending the Constitution ain't easy (intentionally so).

    Freedom of assembly. Freedom of speech.

    How do you tell a small businessman that others can organize and raise funds to win an election and he can't? How do you make that argument to the NRA or the NAACP? The teacher's union or the EFF?

    If a congress can be bribed to make an amendment to the constitution that specifies that money, resources, or commodities cannot be equated to speech, then the verdict of the Supreme Court is nullified by the voices that represent the will of the people.

    This is as blatantly corrupt a political argument as I have ever heard expressed.

    I don't care whether the voice comes from the right or the left.

    I do care when the reformer starts to think that because he has the money and the power, he alone has heard the voice of God --- and that anything he does is perfectly all right.

    1. Re:Bribery represents the will of the people? by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 1

      Actually 3/4 of the states can call for a Convention. Congress has no option to oppose that. Its not entirely clear what their 'calling' function entails, but if there were a clear unequivocal 3/4 of the States passing a single uniformly worded call for a Convention within a stated expiry period then LONG before it got to all 37 required states Congress would pass the desired amendment to avoid the spectre of an open Convention running the country virtually as a de-facto parliament. Honestly a Convention is sort of a 'nuclear option' anyway because NOBODY knows how corrupt (or not) such a body would be as we don't even have rules for its constituence. IMHO it would just be a repeat of the House without a constitution to reign it in. The threat is still potent however and its worked at least twice before.

      --
      "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
    2. Re:Bribery represents the will of the people? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Actually 3/4 of the states can call for a Convention.

      2/3 of the States can call a Constitutional Convention.

      Which bypasses the need for Congress to act, but leaves in place the need for 3/4 of the States to ratify any proposed Amendments.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    3. Re:Bribery represents the will of the people? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      "Runaway Convention" is a boogey man used by those in favor of the current corrupt big government to scare unthinking people into opposition. It didn't take a Constitutional Convention to create the horrid 16th and 17th amendments.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    4. Re:Bribery represents the will of the people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Bribing people to end the current system of bribery is wrong"

      You're an idiot.

    5. Re:Bribery represents the will of the people? by jratcliffe · · Score: 1

      It's not a boogey man at all. It's a real risk, regardless of your political persuasion. The convention could end up deciding to repeal the 2nd Amendment, and prohibit private ownership of firearms. It could decide to ban abortion. It could decide to dramatically rein in the EPA, or dramatically expand its powers. The entire basis of our legal system would be on the table.

    6. Re:Bribery represents the will of the people? by RavenLrD20k · · Score: 1

      If a congress can be bribed to make an amendment to the constitution that specifies that money, resources, or commodities cannot be equated to speech, then the verdict of the Supreme Court is nullified by the voices that represent the will of the people.

      This is as blatantly corrupt a political argument as I have ever heard expressed.

      I agree, but I didn't feel like being Politically Correct and calling it Campaign Contributions, Kickbacks, or whatever the hell else is the in vogue term for bribing now. The only way we're going to be able to get rid of the corruption as firmly seated as it is right now is if we work inside the corruption and use the same methods of bribery to get the law pigs enough of a short term reward that they'd be willing to sign anything...even if it screwed them over long term.

    7. Re:Bribery represents the will of the people? by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 2

      Exactly, and ChrisMaple's logic is flawed. Just because he thinks the 16th and 17th amendemnts are 'horrible' is logically unrelated to the possible character of a convention. Congress has a very limited power to propose individual amendments. A convention would be much more far-ranging since it would be much more capable of proposing sweeping changes.

      Honestly, I don't think such a convention would NECESSARILY be problematic, but there's no reason to assume it would be any more beholden to the will of the people than the existing ludicrous clown-filled House of Representatives. Presumably its finite lifetime and the ad-hoc nature of its constitution would make it quite amenable to corruption.

      --
      "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
    8. Re:Bribery represents the will of the people? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      "Runaway Convention" is a boogey man used by those in favor of the current corrupt big government to scare unthinking people into opposition.

      If you think that a convention writ large will not echo the same kinds of actions that plague smaller scale similar activities, then you are not very observant of human behaviour.

      It didn't take a Constitutional Convention to create the horrid 16th and 17th amendments.

      Your opinion about and the creation of those amendments is irrelevant. I was replying specifically to a call for a convention. No, it didn't take a convention to create some amendments, but a convention certainly is not limited to just the amendments you want it to create.

      I'll also point out that the amendment system is horribly inefficient and deliberately so. Google "ERA" if you want an example.

    9. Re:Bribery represents the will of the people? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I don't think such a convention would NECESSARILY be problematic, but there's no reason to assume it would be any more beholden to the will of the people than the existing ludicrous clown-filled House of Representatives.

      I think the danger is that it would be MORE beholden to "the will of the people" than the current system of amendments. It is just how you define "the people" that matters.

      It does not take a crystal ball to predict that once a constitutional convention is called, there will be people coming out of the woodwork seeking to repeal the 1st (the alleged reason for the CC in the first place) and 2nd, rewrite the fourth and fifth, and to make radical changes to the body (eliminate the electoral college, e.g.), all seeking to further their special cause.

      It is never hard to find people to work hard to further a special cause. It is much harder to find people who will work hard to maintain the status quo. It is also much harder to find people who have a special cause that actually care enough about the rest of the product that they'd turn down alliances that would give them what they want. "If you vote for MY change, I'll vote for yours..." (And yes, that's a problem in congress, too. To expect it not to happen in a CC is just nuts.) In the meantime, most of "the people" with either not have the time to invest in dealing with this, or the interest, expecting, as some try telling them, that "a CC won't change much at all, just a few tweaks here and there ...".

    10. Re:Bribery represents the will of the people? by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 1

      The greater danger in my mind is you will get a huge flood of cash into the process from the usual suspects and you'll just end up with some sort of Fascist constitution that enshrines the power of the current elite and its corporate stooges. That's all Congress is rapidly becoming anyway, with hacks like Roberts and Alito to rubber-stamp it. In a convention they'd be utterly free of any of the few constraints that still apply. If Congresspeople can't even pass patent reform or the President resist appointing a tool of the status quo to the USPTO then why would we in any way shape or form believe that the members of some Convention will be any more independent? They won't. Its not that they'll be too radical, its that they won't be radical at all, they'll be sheep, serving the richest masters.

      --
      "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
    11. Re:Bribery represents the will of the people? by MarciaEverett · · Score: 1

      I make the argument that no group or person can privately from their pocket donate to a candidate because it has the appearance of bribery. The elections should be funded by us all as a whole. The candidates should have their names and a paragraph compiled in an election brochure that is mailed to all voters. No advertising should be sold for television. No profits should be made on the elections. All candidates must be in all debates. Debates should be aired on C-span and public access television and radio only. All candidates should have the same amount of time to answer which can be done by putting a timer on the microphone. when you speak your microphone uses your time. use it wisely. Newspapers may write articles on each candidate, The public can go to the library and search each candidate on the internet.Stop wasting paper on fliers, and posters and do research on the candidates instead. Frankly the campaign brochure (the candidate writes their own paragraph or page themselves) and the debates of which there will probably be more when people realize that is the only way the public can find out who they are, are enough to make a decision.

  36. Re:One way to make politics so much more exciting. by Roblimo · · Score: 1

    For those who don't know: At the bottom of every page there's a link from "Beta" to the real Slashdot site.

  37. Wow, what a misdirection. Thanks, Slashdot. by macraig · · Score: 1

    The title of this post was, "Lawrence Lessig Answers Your Questions...", but what we got in response was a trendy video interview with generalized responses, not the promised (or at least implied by past history) direct responses.

    Is this all we can expect from this sort of post in the future? One more nail in Slashdot's coffin.

  38. Re:Fundamental reform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It was during the Articles of Confederation period (1781-1789), except it didn't really work out. Instead, the government had to put down a rebellion that very likely influenced our decision as a nation to have a strong central government.

  39. confidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What difference does any of these efforts make if the 9-robe court thinks corporate donations and an individual's right to free speech are essentially exactly the same?

    If we talk about correcting SCOTUS' decision in 2014 using an constitutional amendment, everyone will agree that it can't be done. That's because every single person, whether right or left, has a history of always losing every election they've ever participated in. You might be a conservative, but then even when you "win" you find out you ended up being represented be a Republican (eww!!). You might be a progressive, but then even your sweetest memories are the horrific bitterness of the time that some Democrat ended up representing you. You have never in your life known victory, and even grandparents sound a little evasive and unhappy when they talk about the good old days, when their guy won an election in nineteen sixty-whatever.

    But if you had a PAC to make your speech come with some money, you just might win your first election. Maybe you voted on the single issue of campaign reform, and you lost a little ground on some other things, but it's not like you really had a chance of winning ground on those other things. Here you are, with the first kill painted on the side of your plane, and now your grandparents are looking at you with .. what is that? ENVY?!

    Suppose you go into 2015 or 2017 which a really "holy shit, we can actually do this" memory fresh in your mind. Is amending the constitution still unwinnable, or might you finally have some confidence and therefore actually TRY? Because I sure don't see anyone trying right now, and I totally understand why no one does. The prison is in our minds, but it's nevertheless real, too. This is a way out.

  40. Did Larry Mis-speak? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Discussing problems/differences for the US versus other governments in the world Larry says:

    "Larry: Well, most other mature democracies are different in two really important ways: 1) They are parliaments. 2) They don’t have a First Amendment the way we do. Because they are parliaments, elections are not regular. So there is not a permanent campaign, there is a time when they govern, and the majority party actually can govern, and then there is an election. The election could be six weeks or two months or something like that. That’s a really important difference. And number two, no other country has interpreted their free speech provision to be as restrictive as our Supreme Court has interpreted ours." ....

    The key part being: "...no other country has interpreted their free speech provision to be as restrictive as our Supreme Court has interpreted ours."...

    I don't think the SCOTUS has taken a restrictive 1st amendment view, it seems more expansive that most other countries.

    I am intrigued by the voucher idea. I'll need to think about it some more before I decided to commit. I like the thinking of getting the FEC out of how the money is spent and moving it directly to the people to decide where it goes. That part makes some sense to me as result, and is the type of innovative thinking with a market push on it.

    The campaign all the time didn't always exist in the US. I'm 54 and can remember when candidates didn't run start running 2 years or more before an election. This chagne started with Jimmy Carter's run for the president where he started early, and is fueled by 24 hour news cycles among others. The money has gotten worse because government is so big, everybody is fighting over what it spends money on and how it regulates everything. It used to be government wasn't so big so that if they messed up they mostly left you alone, not you cannot escape so no wonder we are fighting about everything all the time.

  41. Re:Fundamental reform? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    yes, talking about same guy. he can start enforcing existing law in all kinds of ways if he really wanted to do something, but Obama is all talk

  42. Re:Fundamental reform? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

    While I believe the first two sentences of this argument are be true, I see no logical reason to infer the final sentence, which I think is false. This being the case, I find entire line of reasoning invalid.

    So, you believe that the First Amendment is limited to speech with no artificial aids, eh?

    Note that that would allow newspapers and news broadcasts to control information flow during a political campaign. Unless you intend to restrict Freedom of the Press as well.

    Note that neither newscasters nor newspapermen are unbiased, and allowing them to decide what you are allowed to know about a particular candidate is at least as bad as the current situation.

    Note also that the incumbent has an enormous advantage even if the news people are paragons of virtue to the last man - all an incumbent has to do to get press attention is propose a law. His challenger(s) get no such instant attention.

    So, your ideal solution guts the Freedom of Speech, the Freedom of the Press, OR it gives incumbents an enormously LARGER advantage....

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  43. Re:Fundamental reform? by kwbauer · · Score: 1

    "And when speech is protected by the First Amendment, so is spending money to speak." Maybe because the 1st Amendment guarantees far more than the right to chat with your neighbor over the fence and utilize modern equivalents to printing and passing pamphlets like was done in the run up to the American Revolution and the disseminating of the Federalist Papers in the push to have the constitution ratified? Hell, even doing the same thing as was done back then costs money.

  44. Re:Fundamental reform? by kwbauer · · Score: 1

    "newspapers and news broadcasts... newspapermen..." Now don't go getting all rational and bringing up the good parts of Citizens United, you might confuse the feeble minded.

  45. Re:Fundamental reform? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    The Whiskey Rebellion in 1791 came after the new Constitution. Apparently bigger government wasn't the solution.

    It occurs to me that having a government murderous enough to quash all rebellions is worse than having rebellions.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  46. Re:Fundamental reform? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Every president for the last century has grabbed more power than the one before him

    Sorry, you're off by 15 years. Harding and Coolidge reduced the power of the government; not until Hoover in 1929 did the relentless trend to tyranny begin.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  47. Re:Fundamental reform? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Douglas Adams was an absurdist more interested in jokes than political reality; relying on him for accurate observations is an error.
    The president is powerful enough to roll over the opposition of any single person. Wise enough, not necessarily, but surely powerful enough.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  48. It's all a fake by jodido · · Score: 1

    In the 1970s there were a bunch of laws passed that supposedly were going to greatly limit the influence of big money in elections. They all totally failed. So now you are going to try it again. "This time it's different."
    It's not true that "big money is stealing our democracy." We never had democracy. If we did there wouldn't be any big money. Also--if the problem is big money, then countries where elections are publicly financed should have "better" governments. Name one.

    1. Re:It's all a fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Norway. Checkmate.

    2. Re:It's all a fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about Sweden?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_finance_in_Sweden

      Or maybe Denmark?
      http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/presidential-campaign/182021-the-danish-way-of-elections

      What about Finland?
      http://www.idea.int/political-finance/country.cfm?id=74

      Iceland? Norway?

      Oh, sorry, you just wanted me to name one.

  49. Re:Fundamental reform? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Consider freedom of the press, since it is more obvious and physical that freedom of speech. Freedom of the press means that the government may not interfere with printing and distributing books, pamphlets, posters, newspapers, bumper stickers, etc.. Government must not destroy printing presses, prevent printed material from being transported, regulate presses or printing businesses in a manner different from other businesses, threaten the owner of the press or his employees, or prevent him from receiving or spending money for the production of printed material, or regulate such monetary movement. Printing is not free, and the dissemination of ideas in print cannot be separated from the money needed to print.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  50. Why do you do this in video? by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

    Why do people use a video these days rather than just typing answers? Moving pictures of Larry's face jabbering don't add much to the proceedings and frankly, I can read answers a lot more quickly than it takes to listen to a video. And, if I happen to be in my office, I can read a transcript without disturbing others.

    Sorry, but this is really a pet peeve. If you don't have a visually dynamic presentation of information that can't be conveyed any other way, video takes more bandwidth and adds little. So why do you do it? To look hip? It doesn't work.

    --
    That is all.
  51. American Republic vs. British Democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you ever taken the time to watch the American House of Representatives vs. the British House of Commons? There is a real stunning difference in the nature of politics between the two countries. Here in the USA, our politicians talk about the interest of the folks who contribute to their campaigns. In England, they member of parliament talk about the concerns of their constituents. Larry Lessig is right. This is a reasonable first step to try and change the conversation. But it really takes more than just a PAC. It takes reaching out to Americans and convincing them to care about the state of politics in America. This requires a huge cultural shift. I don't get the sense that most of my fellow Americans understand the built in, intrinsic corruption in our democratic republic. IMHO, I've seen my fellow citizens consistently vote against their own interest. Beyond that, the gerrymandering of districts has created horrible distortions to our representation. Urban centers are under-represented politically. Beyond the apathy to politics, most Americans also have very little comprehension of all of the great things that the government of the USA does. Every aspect of American life is bolstered in unexpected and novel ways by the various branches of the federal government. It's easy to complain about the apparent fraud waste & abuse, but as that complaint is voiced, what is not voiced are the clever ways that the federal government has often empowered it's own citizens through education, housing, poverty assistance, regulation, research, military expenditures, justice, etc. Most folks who are upset with "run away federal intrusion" don't realize that they owe a good portion of their well being to government programs and activities. I'm not saying that the government is perfect. Horrible errors, abuse, and mistakes do happen. But let's not throw out the baby with the bath water. Before you get to deep into criticizing the size of the federal government, realize that clever programs have helped keep your children vaccinated, educated, and housed, without you even realizing that you are a beneficiary of the government. Here's a great example: The federal government provides FHA mortgage insurance for low income families. Traditionally, commercial mortgage insurers have refused to provide mortgage insurance to these low income families. It turns out that FHA mortgage insurance created a much larger market for mortgage insurance, making it easier for every american to get mortgage insurance. That mortgage insurance has made it easier for any american to buy a house, since it makes it easier to get a mortgage. If you or your parents have ever owned a home with a mortgage, you owe the government some thanks, even if you don't know it. That's just one aspect of your life.

  52. Re:Fundamental reform? by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    It was during the Articles of Confederation period...

    Really? You mean there were no slaves and women could vote?

    From what I've heard, the best times were during the revolutionary war, when the races were freely intersexing and the saloons, I mean pubs, served anyone with the cash any day, any hour, and working hours were rather... relaxed.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  53. Re:One way to make politics so much more exciting. by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    I just looked at it again and realized that I missed that button (a text link in my version of FF) entirely. When you mentioned it as a button I was thinking of the youtube button of the same function (which is often something of a random gibberish generator).

    Thank you

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  54. Ah yes by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 1

    I stand corrected. You're right of course, 3/4 are still required to actually pass the amendment.

    --
    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
  55. Re:Fundamental reform? by mi · · Score: 1

    Really? You mean there were no slaves and women could vote?

    This is a red herring. Whoever can vote, whether or not slavery is legal, is irrelevant. By 1913, for example, slavery has been (highly) illegal for decades — but there was no Federal Income Tax (the major step towards today's slavery).

    By 1920 women got their right to vote (19th Amendment), but Roosevelt's confiscation of gold — to finance his government-expansion — remained years away.

    Bit by bit the people in government — sincerely convinced, they can do better for us, than we can ourselves — insist on "taking care" of us. And life changes for the worse every time the ratchet turns towards greater governmental control over the subjects. Undoing it even a little bit would be a great relief.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  56. Stop Overlooking the GREEN party by MarciaEverett · · Score: 1

    This party has for OVER TEN YEARS committed to NOT TAKING CORPORATE MONEY! And this PAC is just another group claiming to be neutral but ultimately will sort through Democrats for the elections. Credo, MOVEon, Emily's List, all claim to look for progressive candidates. The GREEN Party is FULL of PROGRESSIVE candidates. We shall see if any of your 5 choices are from the Green party.

  57. Bill of Rights for Voting Equality http://brve.us by MarciaEverett · · Score: 1

    Whereas we the people are created equal, and whereas we the people are endowed with certain inalienable rights, and whereas we the people instituted a government to secure these rights, and whereas we the people lay the foundation on such principles, and organize its power in such form, as to us shall seem most likely to effect the above objective, do require the following Bill of Rights for Voting Equality. 1. Each citizen of the United States at or exceeding the age of majority has the right to vote in any public election in the jurisdiction where he or she resides. That right shall not be denied or abridged by the United States, any State, agreement, person, or entity. After incarceration all rights shall resume. 2. a) All citizens of the United States, residing in all states, shall have equal access, (the same requirements), to creating a political party and achieving a ballot line. b) All candidates and parties shall have equal time constraints to qualify for ballot access. c) All proofs will be received by a multi-partisan regulatory board, such as the Board of Elections. d) All citizens that desire to be candidates, shall register at their local Board of Elections. e) The Board of Elections shall divide equally, the campaign tools for election purposes. All tools must be properly labeled as citizen provided. f) Elections shall be publicly funded. No private money may be used for a public office, or seat in the government. The citizen must have full confidence that no bribery or appearance of bribery is taking place. 3. The District constituting the seat of Government of the United States shall elect Senators and Representatives in the Congress in such number and such manner as it would be entitled if it were a State. 4. All citizens must be able to verify that the vote has been counted accurately. All ballots must be counted by hand. All counting must be supervised by multi-partisan personnel and recorded. 5. a) There shall be at least one Representative to each Thirty Thousand citizens, per state. b) Each state shall divide its population by 30,000 to determine its number of representatives. c) Each Representative shall have the voting power equal to the number of citizens that voted for them. d) Congress shall be unicameral, and the Senate shall be dissolved. 6. All citizens shall have equal early voting hours in which to cast their vote. sufficient voting places, materials, and personnel shall be provided to reduce the voting time to within an hour. 7. The Presidential/Vice-Presidential election shall be counted by (score or approval) counting. If you would like to read the reasons behind each rule go here instead. https://www.facebook.com/group...

  58. Re:The only way to end by MarciaEverett · · Score: 1

    Are the Soros, Buffets, and Gates a part of the American Legislative Exchange Council? because I think that group is unconstitutional,and any legislators that get their bills from them should lose their office. Left or Right.

  59. Re:Fundamental reform? by MarciaEverett · · Score: 1

    Don't the oil spills all over the country bother you? Or the swindling that the banks have done to consumers and investors? The lack of government oversight is allowing businesses to kill us and look the other way. Take GM for one. Pharmaceutical companies pushing through things that are easily checkable. And tort reform the big lie that causes us to lower the only weapon left. No I need government to protect me since I am not an expert on all of these different businesses.

  60. Re:Bill of Rights for Voting Equality http://brve. by MarciaEverett · · Score: 1

    Whereas we the people are created equal, and whereas we the people are endowed with certain inalienable rights, and whereas we the people instituted a government to secure these rights, and whereas we the people lay the foundation on such principles, and organize its power in such form, as to us shall seem most likely to effect the above objective, do require the following Bill of Rights for Voting Equality.

    1. Each citizen of the United States at or exceeding the age of majority has the right to vote in any public election in the jurisdiction where he or she resides. That right shall not be denied or abridged by the United States, any State, agreement, person, or entity. After incarceration all rights shall resume.

    2. a) All citizens of the United States, residing in all states, shall have equal access, (the same requirements), to creating a political party and achieving a ballot line. b) All candidates and parties shall have equal time constraints to qualify for ballot access. c) All proofs will be received by a multi-partisan regulatory board, such as the Board of Elections. d) All citizens that desire to be candidates, shall register at their local Board of Elections. e) The Board of Elections shall divide equally, the campaign tools for election purposes. All tools must be properly labeled as citizen provided. f) Elections shall be publicly funded. No private money may be used for a public office, or seat in the government. The citizen must have full confidence that no bribery or appearance of bribery is taking place.

    3. The District constituting the seat of Government of the United States shall elect Senators and Representatives in the Congress in such number and such manner as it would be entitled if it were a State.

    4. All citizens must be able to verify that the vote has been counted accurately. All ballots must be counted by hand. All counting must be supervised by multi-partisan personnel and recorded.

    5. a) There shall be at least one Representative to each Thirty Thousand citizens, per state. b) Each state shall divide its population by 30,000 to determine its number of representatives. c) Each Representative shall have the voting power equal to the number of citizens that voted for them. d) Congress shall be unicameral, and the Senate shall be dissolved.

    6. All citizens shall have equal early voting hours in which to cast their vote. sufficient voting places, materials, and personnel shall be provided to reduce the voting time to within an hour.

    7. The Presidential/Vice-Presidential election shall be counted by (score or approval) counting.

    If you would like to read the reasons behind each rule go here instead. https://www.facebook.com/group...