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Site of 1976 "Atomic Man" Accident To Be Cleaned

mdsolar writes with news about the cleanup of the site that exposed Harold McCluskey to the highest dose of radiation from americium ever recorded. Workers are finally preparing to enter one of the most dangerous rooms in the world — the site of a 1976 blast in the United States that exposed a technician to a massive dose of radiation and led to his nickname: the "Atomic Man." Harold McCluskey, then 64, was working in the room at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation when a chemical reaction caused a glass glove box to explode. He was exposed to the highest dose of radiation from the chemical element americium ever recorded — 500 times the occupational standard. Hanford, located in central Washington state, made plutonium for nuclear weapons for decades. The room was used to recover radioactive americium, a byproduct of plutonium. Covered with blood, McCluskey was dragged from the room and put into an ambulance headed for the decontamination center. Because he was too hot to handle, he was removed by remote control and transported to a steel-and-concrete isolation tank. During the next five months, doctors laboriously extracted tiny bits of glass and razor-sharp pieces of metal embedded in his skin. Nurses scrubbed him down three times a day and shaved every inch of his body every day. The radioactive bathwater and thousands of towels became nuclear waste.

62 of 299 comments (clear)

  1. David Hahn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Funny, I would have thought 'the radioactive boy scout' would have had the most exposure to americium (stockpiled from smoke detectors). His house needed a similar clean up after.

    1. Re:David Hahn by Beck_Neard · · Score: 5, Informative

      The clean-up was less due to the severe amount of radioactivity and more due to the fact that he was careless and got it everywhere.

      The total amount of radioactive material was small and the actual dose of radiation he was exposed to was probably minimal. Although the exact dose isn't known because he never completely revealed his experiments and he never underwent testing.

      One thing I find interesting is that he was arrested again in 2007 on charges related to stealing smoke detectors for their Americium, 13 years after his boy scout experiments.

      --
      A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
  2. Hmm by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Because he was too hot to handle, he was removed by remote control and transported to a steel-and-concrete isolation tank.

    If they had the tech to do all that remotely, then why didn't they just handle the americium remotely?

    I know, I know. Just a thought that popped into my head.

    1. Re:Hmm by Sockatume · · Score: 5, Informative

      That doesn't seem to be accurate; the local newspaper describes a fellow technician who dragged him out of the room, and I don't believe they would've had some sort of building-wide system of manipulators that could've then moved him from there to an ambulance:

      http://www.tri-cityherald.com/...

      At any rate, it looks like the glove box was just to allow access to adjust the equipment, and not perform the procedure. So there's every possibility that the actual work was done with manipulators. (You can play around with some of them in the museum in Richland; they're surprisingly nimble.)

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:Hmm by Sockatume · · Score: 2

      Hmm, now I've read it in more detail it looks like he was transported from the decontamination centre to the ambulance by manipulators, which would seem entirely practical.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    3. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Boss: "Underling, go get Harold out of there!"

      Underling: "Ok..." [trots off]

      Boss' boss: "Very dangerous. If you go in there, you'll be exposed."

      Boss: "It's ok. I'm retrieving Harold remotely."

  3. Re: Question by TwoUtes · · Score: 5, Informative

    In case you are serious, "hot" is a euphemism for someone or something having a high degree of radioactivity. Nothing to do with temperature.

  4. Re:Faith in God by ericloewe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only thing ignorant people fear more than science in general is "radiation". The reasons for the quotation marks would make for a very long rant about ionizing vs. non-ionizing radiation and their complete ignorance of what is actually going on.

  5. Re:Faith in God by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Typically they pray to god for healing, then see a doctor and take medical treatment, then thank god when they get better. The order of the first two steps varies. A few will skip the doctor part and either heal spontaneously (praise the lord!) or die, but most are quite happy to live with the contradiction.

  6. 1984 People article by Sockatume · · Score: 5, Informative

    A lot of the background for this article* comes from a 1984 piece in People Magazine, in some cases word for word:

    http://www.people.com/people/a...

    *It's an AP wire service piece

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  7. Safety margins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The important thing to remember here is that he survived 500 times the maximum dose a worker can be legally exposed to.
    Try that with any chemical in any chemical plant.

    1. Re:Safety margins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      WTF are you talking about?

      The exposure limit to benzene is 1 ppm. You will easily survive 500 ppm for a short time.

    2. Re:Safety margins by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The important thing to remember here is that he survived 500 times the maximum dose a worker can be legally exposed to. Try that with any chemical in any chemical plant.

      I wouldn't try it for just any chemical; but occupational exposure limits tend to be set (often with the aid of generous quantities of guesswork) around chronic occupational exposure and with the objective of not killing, or crippling too seriously, too high a percentage of the workforce. Asking "What can they breath all shift every shift for years or more without too many of them dropping dead, getting some freaky obscure cancer, or having the liver function of an elderly alcoholic before age 50?" tends to lead to lower, sometimes dramatically lower, numbers than "What can you probably survive, with intensive treatment and ongoing health effects?"

    3. Re:Safety margins by orzetto · · Score: 2

      Of course you can be exposed for a short period of time to 500 times the legal concentration of most chemicals. The "legal limit" is usually designed so that regular, 8-hour daily exposure has no long-term health effects, just like the legal radiation limits. Granted, legal limits back then were less conservative.

      Then of course it depends how you are exposed. ingestion is not the same as having skin contact. Methanol has a legal limit of 200 ppm, but I can put my hand in liquid methanol (by definition 1 million ppm, 5000 times the legal limit) for a short time and suffer no consequences.

      --
      Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
  8. the chemical reaction by ishmaelflood · · Score: 2

    " when a chemical reaction caused a glass glove box to explode"

    any idea what that was?

    My engineering brain struggles to find a heavy metal reaction that is unexpected. Oh, and enormous sympathy to HM, that's a horrible way to die.

    1. Re:the chemical reaction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      He didn't die though... Except for 11 years later for heart reasons in his late 70's (he had a heart condition).

    2. Re:the chemical reaction by Sockatume · · Score: 3, Informative

      The process involved nitric acid and a large resin column (probably an ion exchange column). Probably it was forming some nitrates and these decomposed.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  9. Treatment sort of worked by mdsolar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    His treatment sort of worked. He ended up with a lot of bad health effects, but kept alive until he was 75, eleven years later. You read about old people living near Chernobyl and now Fukushima. Perhaps their age related decline leads to fewer ways for radiation to be lethal. The quick onset of leukemia seems to affect children more, for example. http://www.rerf.jp/radefx/late...

    1. Re:Treatment sort of worked by umghhh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Saw a (BBC?) documentary about people living around in the Chernobyl Zone and research done on the food that can be grown there without risk and apparently there are ways to avoid much of contamination if one knows which plants and plant parts to eat and which not. Having luck I suppose plays also a role as there are places there where contrary to what some claim radioactivity killed almost all life. Bottom line is you do not have to die directly of radiation (of the type we talk about here). The atomic man however was exposed and suffered a lot because of that. He died of something that had no direct relationship to the accident, this much is true but I would not like to have to lead his life.

    2. Re:Treatment sort of worked by Idarubicin · · Score: 2

      He died of heart problems. If you read the health effects they are claiming many of them seem just normal for a older person at that time. The rest might could also have been caused by chemical issues more than radiation. Heavy metals are for a large part things you want to avoid putting into your body.

      For people who are interested in this sort of thing, the TOXNET entry for americium contains a number of excerpts from published work about the case, medical follow up, and eventual autopsy results. The first six case report entries on that page all involve publications involving McC|uskey; look for entries that refer specifically to "US Transuranium Registry (USTUR) Case 246". Because americium is an alpha emitter that principally deposits in bone, it is the bone and bone marrow that are most affected by exposure, and which show the most lasting (and ongoing) damage.

      "...Eight yrs after a 64-year old man was exposed to americium-241 in a chemical explosion/, leukopenia was evaluated by a hematologist. Diagnosis of a possible hypoproliferative, myeloproliferative, or myelodysplastic syndrome was considered...."

      "...The bone marrow of /USTUR Case 246/ had been substantially damaged by alpha-irradiation from americium, principally on the bone surfaces. A ... finding was a marked decrease in bone marrow cellularity associated with dilatation of blood sinusoids. The severity of these effects varied according to site and was greatest in the vertebral body, where the marrow was almost acellular, and least in the clavicle. In addition, extensive peritrabecular marrow fibrosis was present in some bones, including the rib and clavicle. ... Fibrosis is a common observation in bones irradiated by bone-seeking radionuclides and has been linked to bone sarcoma induction...."

      "...The bones examined were the patella, clavicle, sternum, rib, vertebral body and ossified thyroid cartilage; all showed evidence of radiation damage. The cellularity of most bones was reduced, and little evidence of recent active bone remodeling was seen in any bone other than the vertebra, as concluded from the redistribution of the americium in the vertebral body. In several bones, the architecture was disrupted, with woven bone, abnormal appositional bone deposits, bizarre trabecular structures and marked peritrabecular fibrosis. Growth arrest lines were common. When compared with trabecular bone modeling, that of cortical bone in the rib appeared less disrupted. Overall, the results obtained are consistent with those observed in dogs at a similar level of actinide intake...."

      In other words, he was 'lucky' that this accident occurred when he was in his mid-sixties, and that he managed to die of heart disease in his mid-seventies. If the patient had been forty years old instead, he likely would have been looking at a cancer of either the bone (an osteosarcoma or some such, and probably at multiple sites if he lived long enough) or the blood-forming cells (leukemia of some sort).

      --
      ~Idarubicin
  10. Re:Anti-nuclear FUD by captjc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Funny, after the accident, Harold McCluskey was very pro-nuclear. Stating that what happened was little more than an industrial accident (assuming that the Wikipedia entry is to be trusted).

    --
    Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
  11. But.. but... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Funny
    ... what super powers did he get?

    Oh, I forgot. He was 64 years old at that time.

    First Law of Superpowerdynamics: Only well muscled young men with washboard abs and manboob pecs get super powers

    Second Law of Superpowerdynamics: Superpowers will make you wear your underwear over your pants.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:But.. but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Europeans beware... the statement "underwear over your pants" is recursive - please do not try to execute this sentence on a production brain.

    2. Re:But.. but... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 2

      First Law of Superpowerdynamics: Only well muscled young men with washboard abs and manboob pecs get super powers

      I thought most of them got the washboard abs and whatnot because of their super powers. Consider:
      1) Captain America: he was a wuss until he was given the serum that made him a super-human.
      2) Spider-Man: a nerd that got pushed around until he was bitten by a weird spider.
      3) Batman: used his "Has Gobs of Cash" superpower to get extensive training.

    3. Re:But.. but... by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      If it's a cold day, then long underwear over your short underwear is very helpful.

  12. Re:Faith in God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The prayer is often for the doctor being competent.

  13. Re:Faith in God by will_die · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just so you are informed. Religious reasons for no vaccination is very low on the list and is mainly from groups such as the Amish and the main reason Amish don't vaccinate is not for religious reason but items such as since they are closed community the risk is not as high.

    The biggest reasons for people not going with vaccines are not trusting of "big" science and vaccines are loaded with all those chemicals, similar to GMO.

  14. Re:Faith in God by BenJaminus · · Score: 2

    Having seen miracles I feel the need to confirm that the spontaneous healing directly after prayer does indeed result in praising the Lord! Usually the person involved is rather joyful and thankful too :)

  15. I would rob banks by gelfling · · Score: 5, Funny

    The note would say "I am highly radioactive put the money in the bag."

  16. Re: Question by Talderas · · Score: 2

    Sex symbol.

    Like Henry Kissinger.

    --
    "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  17. Re:Faith in God by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why does every discussion of anything nuclear related almost immediately turn into a straw man argument against some imaginary, fearful hoards of idiots? Why are do so insecure about it?

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  18. Re:Faith in God by murdocj · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your comment reminds me of the saying "God heals, and the doctor sends the bill".

    Yes, modern medicine is great, but after a while you realize that doctors are shooting in the dark half the time.

  19. Summary lacking an important point by damn_registrars · · Score: 2

    The summary should have mentioned that he died of coronary artery disease, not of radiation exposure. The accident was terrible, sure, but the summary has led some to believe that he died of radiation exposure - which is terrible in a different way.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  20. Re:Faith in God by ray-auch · · Score: 2

    Some, arguably the smarter ones, pray for guidance, then see a doctor and take medical treatment, then thank god for guiding them to what they could have figured out themselves. But, they are happy.

    Others pray only for a miracle, knowing that miracles are rare, and die knowing that either that was God's purpose or they just didn't deserve the miracle enough. But, they are happy.

    Then there's those who really don't get that "God works in mysterious ways" might mean that God wants them to assign perfectly normal human interventions (like medical treatment) to being his work (and why not?, builds faith, saves work, lets him do more of whatever gods do when not babysitting their createes). Such people rarely go happy, as with the old flood joke: http://jokes.cc.com/funny-god-...

  21. Re:Faith in God by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Funny

    I've been witness to numerous "negative miracles", where the divine hand of our Lord decides to inflict his wrath upon some unworthy subject. It often does result in a "God Damnit!", so your hypothesis seems reasonable.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  22. Re:Faith in God by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It would be an impressive miracle indeed, aside from the bit about having an immune system and mitosis-capable cells. Life is actually pretty good at fixing itsself without supernatural aid. It seems suspicious that God is so eager to heal infections, yet never helps out any amputees.

  23. Re:Faith by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Undue fear of radiation is very prevalent. In this case, the man initially suffered more from the actual explosion than from the massive dose of radiation, and over time he overcame the radiation related issues even though his exposure was on the order of hundreds of times greater than safety limits. Heart disease is what killed him.

    Whether you think its Intentional or not, you can always count on mdsolar to submit anything he can find that says nuclear and there is something bad that happened.

  24. Re:Faith in God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Medicine's role is to entertain us while Nature takes its course." - Voltaire

  25. Re:Faith in God by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In some cases, even religious people will trust science

    In fairness, I know scientists who are religious and believe in evolution and all the rest of the science, and see God as being outside of all of that, and see the Bible as being allegorical on the points which conflict with science.

    Religion isn't always tied with being irrational like the crazies we sometimes see.

    Hell, when I went to university there was still a Jesuit teaching physics. He saw no conflict whatsoever between science and religion.

    I'm certainly not saying there aren't those who are a little overzealous in their interpretations, but there are many many people who aren't.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  26. Cecil Kelley by QuantumPion · · Score: 5, Informative

    As far as I am aware the highest radiation dose anyone has received was Cecil Kelley, whom was exposed to a criticality accident at a plutonium processing plant. When the tank stirrer turned on, the geometry of the plutonium solution became critical, exposing him to ~12,000 rem. He died 36 hours later.

    See Page 16 for a description of the accident here: http://ncsp.llnl.gov/basic_ref/la-13638.pdf

    Or the wiki here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecil_Kelley_criticality_accident

    1. Re:Cecil Kelley by QuantumPion · · Score: 2

      "As far as I am aware the highest radiation dose anyone has received was Cecil Kelley..."

      Not to be too snarky, but I believe that some former folks at Hiroshima and Nagasaki would beg to differ.

      No. To get that kind of radiation dose from a nuclear explosion you would have to be much closer than the altitude the bombs were detonated at. So close that you would be instantly vaporized by the thermal radiation.

    2. Re:Cecil Kelley by TopSpin · · Score: 2

      As far as I am aware the highest radiation dose

      Naturally the `record' must be limited to the subset of known cases. I've been studying the history of Soviet nuclear science and industry for a few years. Things went on in the Soviet Union that beggars the imagination, as they say.

      When the waste storage tank blew up in Mayak in 1957, 90% of the high level waste fell in the immediate vicinity. That's 90% of 740 PBq (740E15 decays per second) within about half a kilometer radius, in which there were certainly some number of workers, this being the most urgent period of nuclear weapons development.

      There were criticality accidents at Mayak that killed people as well; the Review of Criticality Accidents (2000) mentions seven incidents at Mayak and eight at other Soviet sites.

      Then there is Chernobyl. Shortly after the explosion soldiers on the grounds of the plant policed up pieces of graphite and other debris, including fuel, from the reactor core with simple tools, bare hands and no respiratory protection [1]. They were breathing particles of heavy metal isotopes so "hot" that they floated through the air on their own thermal output like little balloons. They were treated as military casualties and their numbers are not publicly known.

      The worst case of radiation exposure took place in the Soviet Union. We do not know the circumstances, how severe it was, how many it killed, when or where it happened, but that it did is a metaphysical certitude.

      1. The Legacy of Chernobyl, 1992 Medvedev

      --
      Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
  27. Re:Faith in God by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The only thing ignorant people fear more than science in general is "radiation". The reasons for the quotation marks would make for a very long rant about ionizing vs. non-ionizing radiation and their complete ignorance of what is actually going on.

    Are you aware of the fact there were several decades in which the threat of nuclear war hung over everybody's heads, and the information being given out didn't include these details?

    Anybody over 40 probably remembers several years of bomb drills, or the Bay of Pigs, or all sorts of things which most scared the bejeezus out people?

    Even when Reagan got elected there was still a lot of fear that some idiot was going to let loose some nukes, and the rhetoric was quite high.

    People were given far more fear than scientific information.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  28. Everybody skips the interesting bits by HangingChad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not only did Harold get a dose that was way beyond the LD50 for humans, he lived for 11 more years and died of unrelated causes. His pastor had to convince people he was safe to be around.

    Harold was far from the only Tri-Cities nuclear celebrity. There were also stories about guys who would drop their pants and squat over reactor vents until their balls got a little burned. Think of it like a nuclear vasectomy. I never documented any of those stories but there were a lot of them and worse.

    One thing I did personally document was that, adjusted for age, the cancer rate for people who worked at Hanford was not statistically higher than that of the general population.

    I achieved my own personal notoriety there by accidentally leaving my dosimeter in my shaving kit and leaving that on an orange Fiestaware platter that was so hot it would light up a pancake meter on three scales. A few weeks later I get a panic call from Rad Services asking if I'm okay. Hehe. God, I hated that place.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    1. Re:Everybody skips the interesting bits by timrod · · Score: 2

      Actually, I've got a question about that story you linked. XKCD's "What If" blog did a story a few months ago about what would happen if you were to go swimming in a nuclear fuel pool. He came to the conclusion that as long as you stuck to the surface, the radiation levels would be practically non-existent because of how water impedes radiation. The guy in that article swam and drank from a spent fuel pool, but he probably only swam on the surface and was drinking water from the surface.

      From your experience (since you imply you worked at Hanford), wouldn't this mean that he was just making a big deal about a risk he wasn't actually taking?

    2. Re:Everybody skips the interesting bits by MarkRose · · Score: 2

      At the surface of a reactor pool, the biggest dose of radiation is actually from the tritium created by neutron absorption by the hydrogen in the water molecules. The heat given off by the fuel will create a convective current, so the tritium will be evenly dispersed throughout the pool. Swimming in or drinking the water would obviously not be the best thing due to the tritium contamination (while skin will block the very weak beta radiation, tritium ingested or absorbed through the skin can cause DNA damage). A small amount will also be present in the air around the pool due to evaporation. Would I drink or swim in the water? No. But I have stood over a reactor pool for several minutes without concern.

      --
      Be relentless!
  29. What I want to know... by OS2toMAC · · Score: 2

    Did he grow to 50 feet tall and rampage around Las Vegas?

  30. Re:Faith in God by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What, wasn't their faith in god strong enough? It works wonders for children without vaccinations...

    In some cases, even religious people will trust science ... (though not enough if other persons are affected)

    Seriously, have we gotten to the point that we're actually bigoted against all religions?

    73% of Americans believe in God: http://www.pewforum.org/2012/1...
    41% trust scientists, with another 46% trusting them "Somewhat" http://www.asanet.org/images/j...

      73% believe in God, 87% trust scientists at least "somewhat" so, at the very least, 60% of people believe on God AND trust science at the same time! That's assuming there is no overlap.

    If you disparage someone for their religious beliefs, you are a bigot. Seriously, you really are. It's not some different thing, you can't cite the crusades as evidence of how evil modern Christians are, you can't point to wars in the middle east. None of that has anything to do with the little old lady down the street that goes to church. You're making an offensive, and more importantly, incorrect generalization about an entire group of people based on the actions of a very small minority that has nothing to do with them at all.

    I know this will get modded down pretty quickly on Slashdot. This site is notoriously intolerant of the faithful, but that doesn't make it right. Have fun modding me down troll, just keep in mind you're doing it for the same reasons sectarian bigotry happens all over the world. No one thinks they're a bigot while they're being a bigot. And if you're teaching your kids this mentality at home? Shame on you.

  31. Re:Faith in God by CaptainDork · · Score: 5, Funny

    I am a scientist and it does not threaten my faith.

    The two are separate and I don't pit one against the other.

    Both are tools to be used on a different scopes of work.

    I keep the two isolated except at the very end of each day.

    I wonder what the hell is going on and it's so elusive, I appeal to the gods for help.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  32. Re:Faith in God by nitehawk214 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I've been witness to numerous "negative miracles", where the divine hand of our Lord decides to inflict his wrath upon some unworthy subject. It often does result in a "God Damnit!", so your hypothesis seems reasonable.

    Shouldnt the "God Damnit" precede the harmful act?

    Also, once, I was chastized by a Christian for saying "God Damnit" when I don't believe in god. My excuse was that it was such a good "damn" curse. I don't believe in religion, but I do like their curse words.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  33. Re:Anti-nuclear FUD by durrr · · Score: 2

    Occupational standards are 20mSv today. So 10 Sv in total?

  34. Re:Faith in God by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm saying the older you get the more scary shit about this you likely remember.

    At just over 40 you sure as hell don't remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, but you knew it happened and that everybody was talking like they'd be setting them off.

    But anybody 40 or over lived through at least a period in which the likelihood of a nuclear war seemed like a very real possibility, and the older you get the more you remember.

    And NOBODY ever differentiated between types of radiation while they were telling everybody how terrible it was going to be to die from it if we didn't get burned up in the initial blast.

    So if you want to know why there's so much fear around radiation, it's because for several decades people lived in fear of dying from it, because people kept threatening to use the damned things.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  35. Re:Faith in God by RockClimbingFool · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The only religious people I know of that have their beliefs disparaged are those who wish to impose those beliefs on others through the force of law.

    You don't like gay marriage? Don't get gay married. Don't like abortions? Don't get one. Fully fund pre AND post natal care. Provide free contraception. Stop trying to force a reading from certain religious to start every government open meeting. Stop trying to keep people from buying alcohol on Sundays. The list goes on and on.

    Its ok to hold beliefs those things above are bad or immoral. Don't get the government to enforce your morals on others.

  36. Re:Faith in God by uiucgrad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wonder if you removed the word religious from that sentence above if it still holds true? "If you disparage someone for their beliefs, you are a bigot." What makes religious beliefs so much different than any other kind of belief that it deserves this kind of protection? It seems that whenever anyone complains about the attacks on religious beliefs what they are really saying is that "If you disparage MY religious beliefs, you are a bigot." But if you want to give Mormons, or Christian Scientists, or Rastafarians a hard time, by all means.

  37. God & the Big Bang by Dareth · · Score: 3, Funny

    See God invented Mexican food first. After that the Big Bang was inevitable.

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  38. Re:Faith in God by ilsaloving · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Science doesn't try to turn homosexuals straight. Religion does.

    I have yet to see a war declared where a faction says, "Science is on our side!" Religion most definitely does.

    Science doesn't encourage people to be stupid and proud of it. Religion actively *discourages* critical thinking. There are plenty of studies out there showing strong correlations between religion and education levels. (Yes, I know there are plenty of examples of this to the contrary, but these people are few and far between)

    Science doesn't convince people that they should deny their children life-saving therapies. There are tons of people who have allowed their children to die because things as simple as a blood transfusion is anathema.

    What's the phrase? Bad people do bad things, but religion makes good people do bad things.

    So yes, we *need* to be bigoted against religion. Religion has been the direct cause of so much damage and pain in this world that it *deserves* to be hated.

  39. Re:But WHY are they demolishing the room? by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Informative

    That whole site is part of a gigantic, long-term cleanup - partially motivated by the desire not to let radioactive waste reach the Columbia River.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  40. Re:Faith in God by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 2

    Making fun of stupid, superstitious beliefs is now bigotry? How else do you suggest getting religious chumps to wise up? Education cures many of them as young people, but once someone has failed to reason their way out of religion by adulthood, they're very resistant to reality-based information. Are you a religious chump?

  41. Re:Faith in God by Cl1mh4224rd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know this will get modded down pretty quickly on Slashdot. This site is notoriously intolerant of the faithful, but that doesn't make it right. Have fun modding me down troll, just keep in mind you're doing it for the same reasons sectarian bigotry happens all over the world. No one thinks they're a bigot while they're being a bigot. And if you're teaching your kids this mentality at home? Shame on you.

    Am I allowed to point how very wrong this particular belief of yours appears to be in reality, or is that off limits?

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    People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
  42. Re:Faith in God by madro · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wisdom, if you can handle it. Cognitive dissonance, if you can't.

  43. Re:Faith in God by Zeromous · · Score: 2

    I think your definition of "morals" is skewed towards, my 'religious morals' versus any sort of accountable moral code which prevents people from impeding on others.

    For instance, is it immoral for two men you don't know have sex? Is it also immoral for those one of those men to kill the other? Is it immoral for one of those men to marry his brother afterwards?

    One of these things is morally ambiguous, one is immoral, and the other completely fucking irrelevant. But an unaccountable religious moral code would ban all three.

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  44. Re:Faith in God by Zordak · · Score: 2

    I have yet to see a war declared where a faction says, "Science is on our side!"

    Then you need to study the history of the 20th Century, and eugenics.

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