Amazon Seeks US Exemption To Test Delivery Drones

angry tapir writes: Amazon.com has asked the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration for permission to test drones outdoors for use in its Prime Air package delivery service. In the run up to launching the service, which aims to deliver packages in 30 minutes or less, the online retailer is developing aerial vehicles that travel over 50 miles (80 kilometers) per hour, and will carry 5pound (2.3 kilogram) payloads, which account for 86 percent of the products sold on Amazon. They need to ask permission because the FAA specifically banned such behavior last month.

Comments

Why in America?

[gurps_npc]

Can't they just do the testing in Canada? Or some other country that hasn't created this law?

Seems like they are more interested in getting a foot in the door to revoke the rule, rather than testing.

Re:Why in America?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems like they are more interested in getting a foot in the door to revoke the rule, rather than testing.

That's actually what's going on. What amazon (and google and facebook) truely want is regulations that make it hard for competition in this market segment. They've been playing a chess game for quite a while on this. All of the FUD articles about drones crashing into stuff is actually carefully chosen cases publicized to turn the public against "unregulated" drones, therefore requiring regulations to be written, and guess which three companies have been clamoring to congress that they have the expertise to help craft such regulations? Surely they'll have no problem complying with their own regulations, meanwhile any small business that tries to start up, or complains about the regulations, amazon can then say "they need to follow the regulations, their drones aren't safe, ours are", and use the sheeple to crush any startups.

Re:Why in America?

[Obfuscant]

Your definition of "clearly" is very different than most people's I think...

It also differs considerably from what is found in federal law. 14CFR1:

1.1 General definitions. Aircraft means a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air.

That says nothing about carrying people. The difference between airCRAFT and airPLANE is also clear, same section:

Airplane means an engine-driven fixed-wing aircraft heavier than air, that is supported in flight by the dynamic reaction of the air against its wings.

The airPLANE is a fixed-wing heavier than air airCRAFT. That means that airCRAFT includes hot air balloon, gliders, and yes, drones. And even the definition of airplane does not include a requirement that people be aboard.

But wait, quadcopters aren't fixed-wing, so are they covered?

Helicopter means a rotorcraft that, for its horizontal motion, depends principally on its engine-driven rotors.

So drones are helicopters, unless they're the fixed wing version. And gosh if the FAA doesn't have the authority to regulate flight of helicopters.

Now what about this "high altitude" limit on the authority of the FAA? Sorry. That's just nonsense. There is well-established case law that the FAA can (and does) regulate the use of aircraft down to the surface. 14CFR91 is the federal law covering general operating and flight regulations, and is applicable as follows:

91.1 Applicability. (a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section and ÂÂ91.701 and 91.703, this part prescribes rules governing the operation of aircraft (other than moored balloons, kites, unmanned rockets, and unmanned free balloons, which are governed by part 101 of this chapter, and ultralight vehicles operated in accordance with part 103 of this chapter) within the United States, including the waters within 3 nautical miles of the U.S. coast.

Notice that "aircraft" clearly includes kites and even moored balloons, because these had to be specifically exempted from coverage by this part that covers "aircraft".

And 14CFR91 contains rules that apply to aircraft all the way to the surface of the earth. For example, Class B, C, and D airspace extends from the surface up to the specified altitude (it differs), and the "Mode C Veil" extends from the surface up to 10,000 MSL for a distance of 30 miles from the applicable airport. Thirty miles. And 14CFR91.131 clearly says:

91.131 Operations in Class B airspace. (a) Operating rules. No person may operate an aircraft within a Class B airspace area except in compliance with Â91.129 and the following rules:

That kinds makes it clear that the FAA has authority to regulate aircraft from the surface. That cite is just one example of many.

There is no "high altitude" limitation to the rules, and the only reference to "high altitude" that I know of deals with a class of VOR that has a "Standard High Altitude Service Volume". The only thing that "high altitude" might refer to is as a lay description of Class A airspace, which runs from 18,000 feet MSL up to flight level 600 (about 60,000 feet MSL). Note that there are also Class B, C, D, E, and G airspaces which the FAA regulates, so there is a lot of precedent f

Ballsy

[Dins]

Well that's pretty ballsy. "Yeah, we know you banned this with us in mind, but....can we do it anyway?"

Shrug.

[jaseuk]

Maybe Amazon should work with Google to build a locker on wheels using the self-driving car chassis. That seems a far more useful and practical long-term solution.

Jason.

won't work

[CosaNostra Pizza Inc]

With the amount of gun owners in this country AND the number of paranoid, conspiracy nuts here; how many of those drones will make it to their destinations?

Re:won't work

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeeehaaaww skeet shooting with prizes!!!!!!

Re:won't work

[paysonwelch]

They are most likely asking permission from the FAA to fly the drones at altitudes of around 1,000+ ft (not sure about the actual regulations) but this would be high enough that you would have to be a really good shot AND have a long range rifle. The thing is that most people aren't good shots let alone at that distance and compounding the fact that it's going to be a moving target at 50MPH.

Re:won't work

[Billy the Mountain]

Yeah! An' an' a free three year stay in th' crowbar ho-tel!

Government control of our lives...

[mi]

They need to ask permission because the FAA specifically banned such behavior last month.

Gone are the days, when pursuit of happiness was understood as a natural right granted to each human being not by their government, but by the Creator.

Today one must get a permission to drive a car, carry a weapon, perform in costume, or, indeed, to fly a drone.

And this prohibition does not even come from Congress directly — having usurped so much control over our lives over the last century, they are simply unable to deal with the minutiae and are forced to delegate more and more of the rule-making to the Executive-run agencies — such as the FAA.

Re:Government control of our lives...

[RobinH]

I thought the idea was that you had that right, but only up to the point where it infringes on someone else's right to the same. So, for instance, you being an idiot and driving your car over a pedestrian infringes on their right to the pursuit of happiness. You see, when it comes to behaviors that put others at significant risk, why only punish the ones who were unlucky enough to have the negative outcome actually happen, when the act of performing the risky behavior was what you had control over, and what you should be prevented from doing in the first place? Similarly, Amazon flying drones over residential neighborhoods sounds pretty risky to me, even though I do appreciate the coolness of being able to have something delivered in 30 minutes. Therefore I'm not sure this ban is such a bad thing until we can prove suitable precautions are being taken.

Promo stunt

[djupedal]

Amazon is just looking to get in on yet another news cycle. Maybe charlie rose is ready to fawn all over them again...

Re:Visualing this?

[Sockatume]

Given the accuracy of GPS, it'll probably wind up on your roof, up a tree, or down the chimney, which means it'll still be an improvement over Yodel.*

*Substitute infamously incompetent carrier for your region here.

I kid, but seriously, a mail order that's installing lockers and authorised delivery points every few hundred yards and seriously talking about flying fucking robots as an improvement in service is a damning indictment of the package delivery business.

Re:Visualing this?

[SenatorPerry]

You are making this too complicated.

They drive a truck with a wireless mast and a flat bed to your neighborhood. It will simply deliver all the packages one at a time based on GPS to your home. The driver of the truck will monitor and manually adjust as needed. A single person will have a 20-30 second job and then wait for the drone to buzz when the next package is at a home. With a good range on the truck you can cover several miles with one person without the need for utilizing a delivery service. A single person may also be able to handle 4-6 drones at once. They hover until the driver is able to deliver the package to the door.

Once delivered they will do the normal confirmation email. Regarding cranes and other items, it is required to register and have a beacon light on masts of a certain height. It will just need to be entered as a no-fly zone or a minimum elevation zone. Regardless, the drones don't just go from A-B. They can sense nearby objects. If one happens to be taken out, the driver just drives to the location to retrieve it. Maybe has a ladder... Nothing really complicated.

Re:We have to get away from instant gratification

[OhPlz]

What are you doing on Slashdot? Subscribe to a magazine that covers stories like this, write your letter to the editor and wait a month for a possible response. You're so impatient posting on a site where you can get near-immediate feedback. This nonsense needs to be shut down now.