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US House Passes Permanent Ban On Internet Access Taxes

jfruh writes: In 1998, the U.S. Congress passed a law that temporarily banned all taxes imposed by federal, state, and local governments on Internet access and Internet-only services, a ban that has been faithfully renewed every year since. Now the U.S. House has passed a passed a permanent version of the ban, which also applies to several states that had passed Internet taxes before 1998 and were grandfathered in under the temporary law. The Senate must pass the bill as well by November 1 or the temporary ban will lapse.

148 comments

  1. How about fees? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Could they tack a rider onto that sucker mandating out-the-door advertised prices while they're at it?

    1. Re:How about fees? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction: Republicans passed a bill in the House that would make the internet tax ban permanent.

      Democrats have never some across something they didn't want to tax.

    2. Re:How about fees? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would Republicans tax solar?

    3. Re:How about fees? by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      ... it was renewed reliably year after year since 1998...

      If the ringing in my ears from the "nancy pelosi" whinging that happened a few back is anything to go by, it's a bi-partisan issue.

    4. Re:How about fees? by Talderas · · Score: 1

      It was a voice vote.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  2. This will die in the senate by halivar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They'll never pass up an opportunity to squeeze more money to fund pet projects back home. Hell, they're already talking about tapping the untouched potential of my 401(k).

    1. Re:This will die in the senate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you mean 90, I thought it was supposed to be until you drop (as in expire).

    2. Re:This will die in the senate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you mean 90, I thought it was supposed to be until you drop (as in expire).

      You people are so lazy. This is how it used to be back in the days of freedom and no income tax. You worked until you died. Our founding fathers would be ashamed of you. Saving for a work free retirement was a ridiculous concept unless you were fabulously wealthy.

    3. Re:This will die in the senate by halivar · · Score: 1

      Back then, though, the drop-dead date was usually the modern retirement age; so yeah, it could be pushed back a little bit.

    4. Re:This will die in the senate by Sowelu · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In truth, this is also why Social Security has its problems. When it was established, it was "You likely won't live to use it, but if you do, you will be well taken care of". It was insurance against an uncommon and, in a way, kind of negative thing happening to you: Living to an age such that you could no longer support yourself. It was a luxury that not many people had, and it could absolutely be hard on your family. Of course, now almost everyone lives long enough to collect it.

      No, it wasn't meant to be a replacement for savings, and you weren't supposed to get out what you put in. A small portion of the population was supposed to collect it, because most of them didn't live long enough to.

    5. Re:This will die in the senate by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      They'll never pass up an opportunity to squeeze more money to fund pet projects back home. Hell, they're already talking about tapping the untouched potential of my 401(k).

      My guess is they may simply because they may not want to face a "Sen XX voted to raise taxes..." ad back home.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    6. Re: This will die in the senate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Social Security's current problem (its income being lower than its outflow ) because of assumptions about the workforce and artificial limit s on its funding.

      The biggest issue was the population burst after WW2 followed by a decline after.

    7. Re:This will die in the senate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Social security was absolutely meant as a replacement for savings. It just didn't mandate away the ability to save money independently from paying social security. Savings is personal financial security with sole benefit, Social security is community financial security with a shared benefit.

    8. Re:This will die in the senate by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      But only so long as the Ponzi Scheme was working. The real benefits were to the DNC and politicians in general who now have a wedge issue to divide the over 65 crowd from the under 45 crowd. Divide and conquer. People are too stupid to recognize it because .... FIFA BITING CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    9. Re:This will die in the senate by Cammi · · Score: 1

      Right now, the drop-dead date is before the modern retirement age, so .... hmmm

    10. Re:This will die in the senate by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      Since when did people not commonly live into old age? People may live 5-10 years longer now than they did in 1800, but that is still at least well into their 60 on average (and of course that means 50% live far longer).

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    11. Re:This will die in the senate by dj245 · · Score: 1

      No, it wasn't meant to be a replacement for savings, and you weren't supposed to get out what you put in. A small portion of the population was supposed to collect it, because most of them didn't live long enough to.

      Not entirely true. I think you are including childhood mortality. If you made it to age 20 (working age) in 1935, the year that the Social Security Act was enacted, you could expect to live to be about 66 years old if you were a man, or 68 if you were a woman. This isn't a "small portion of the population", it is, by definition of being the average life expectancy, at least half the population.

      Life expectancy has gotten longer but it has been a very gradual process and the taxes have increased over the years. The reason that the program is in trouble is because the taxes have not quite kept up, and politicians have been playing financial games with the savings for decades.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    12. Re:This will die in the senate by geekoid · · Score: 3, Informative

      no, it wasn't. If you live through your tax paying year to 60, it was very likely you would live just as long as you would now.

      Male - 1940 would live 13 years after turning 60
      Male - Now live 15.5 years after turning 60.

      So it a couple of years, easily adjusted for and planned for. Don't by into the pub/libertarians lies. SS is fine.
      In fact, with a minor change, we could lower the age of retirement, I know, it's counter intuitive and requires math.

      Really we nee congress to stop stealing the money from SS the we pay into.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    13. Re:This will die in the senate by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      It isn't that people didn't live long lives, it is that the average or median age of death was lower. Of course social security was implemented in 1935 not 1800, but the numbers may actually surprise you.

      http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/...

      That should give you some interesting comparisons.

    14. Re:This will die in the senate by geekoid · · Score: 1

      " "You likely won't live to use it, but if you do, you will be well taken care of"
      that is completely false. everything about it is just wrong.

      People live a couple of years longer. then they did in 1940. That's it.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    15. Re:This will die in the senate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, you're thinking of "median," but you're also fucking up that definition, which is that *exactly* half the population would live to be older.

      Second, you're an idiot who doesn't know the definition of "average," which is customarily the "mean."

    16. Re:This will die in the senate by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not a Ponzi scheme. I suggest you do some research instead of letting fox think for you.

      THE problem is congress keeps taking money from it.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    17. Re:This will die in the senate by geekoid · · Score: 1

      People who live to 60 in 1940 would live for another 13 years.
      People who lived to 60 in 2000 lived for another 15 years.

      This is all part of the SS plan. Expert have calculations and use them the pubs would have you believe it doesn't change and is never adjusted. They would also have you believe it's broke, it is not.

      The pubs are pushing for a 1920s class device.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    18. Re:This will die in the senate by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      US GDP/capita in 1940 $10,000. US GDP/capita in 2000 $40,000. (Adjusted for inflation using 2005 dollars)

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    19. Re:This will die in the senate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You make it sound like no-one thought of changes in demographics before now. The SS trust fund has always had assumptions about longevity built in. And the US is not outside of that predicted range (actually a little under, IIRC.)

      The problems with the SS trust fund are purely due to the artificial contributions cap combined with the decline in median household income relative to GDP. The planners didn't expect to lose the gains in income equality over the prior to the '80s. (If the national income is more concentrated at the top end, and you exclude the top end from contributing....)

    20. Re:This will die in the senate by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      The money that has been taken has been backed with T-bills. Financially, it's as if the money was never taken out in the first place. Nevertheless, Social Security is now running in the red (drawing down on those T-bills) and will continue to do so until it's out of cash sometime in the next 20-25 years. Thus the talk about raising the tax rate, or lifting other exemptions (without raising the equivalent max benefit), or other means to increase funding without increasing expenses.

      Social security is, in fact, behaving as a classic Ponzi scheme, except to keep the scheme going the schemer (US Federal Government in this case) is planning to charge late entries even higher rates to invest in the scheme. The problem is not use of funds now - the problem is structural. It will not survive long term without restructuring because it promises to pay out more than it receives - like a Ponzi scheme.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    21. Re:This will die in the senate by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2

      It does meet every defining characteristic of a Ponzi scheme, however because it is government sanctioned it technically isn't one. Right now we're seeing the sunset of what a Ponzi scheme looks like; that is, where it fails because the new investors aren't paying enough to cover the dividends paid to the older investors.

      I personally don't get why we don't just get rid of it in favor of a universal pension system.

    22. Re:This will die in the senate by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      You make it sound like no-one thought of changes in demographics before now. The SS trust fund has always had assumptions about longevity built in. And the US is not outside of that predicted range (actually a little under, IIRC.)

      I don't know how I made it sound anything of the sort. I simply commented on the life expectancy difference between dates.

      The problems with the SS trust fund are purely due to the artificial contributions cap combined with the decline in median household income relative to GDP. The planners didn't expect to lose the gains in income equality over the prior to the '80s. (If the national income is more concentrated at the top end, and you exclude the top end from contributing....)

      That's not the problem at all. Income inequality has little to do with it. Unemployment is rampant which hurts the basic premise of the social security schema. Add to that the problem of a somewhat negative population growth and it throws it all out of whack.

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/da...

      You see, the planners forecast population growth and the idea was that about 80% of the working population would pay for around 15% in social security benefits. I left 5% off because there will be some eligible to draw benefits but continue to work and end up paying their allotment back in penalties. But when you have a boom in population growth and then it slows, you end up with 25% or better of the population being over the age of retirement (in 2010, there was something like 20.7% of 65 and over compared to 18-64 with roughly 8% under 18 compared to the same source and another 41.9% coming.)

      Or in other words, currently, the number of people 65 and over is equal to 20.7% of people of working age. The number of people under 18 year old who will replace the retiring workers is equal to roughly 8% of the current working age population. But the number of people within 18 years of being 65 is roughly 42% of the current working population. this means that 42% will leave while only 8% replaces them leaving a deficit of 34% without bothering to estimate the number of retirees who will still be with us and dependent on Social Security or the number of working age people and others who had tragic events happen and draw from the system too..

      http://factfinder2.census.gov/...

      But I like you try to push income inequality as a leading factor. It shows you are willing to make something up to push the idea and I bet people believed you too.

    23. Re: This will die in the senate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure income inequality contributes when the super rich dodge ss tax through capital gains, offshoring (Ireland, Cayman Islands, Switzerland), and other such loopholes.

    24. Re:This will die in the senate by dog77 · · Score: 1

      Please explain how social security is not a Ponzi scheme?

      The first generation that received social security was paid by the working generation (2nd generation). The 2nd generation is paid for by the 3rd generation and so on. It only works as long as the next generation (new investors) grows fast enough to pay for the current generation. This is classic Ponzi scheme, the first investers get paid off right away (and well), and the second investers pay for them and they get paid less well, and then the 3rd generation get paid even less, and so on, and you can only sustain it if you get more investors or you actually generate income. Unless I am mistaken, the only income social security gets is from the current investors.

      Social security now takes more than it gives: http://business.time.com/2012/...

    25. Re:This will die in the senate by mpercy · · Score: 1

      In earliest days of Social Security, there were hundreds of "contributors" per beneficiary, but that was a startup issue.
      In 1945, there were 42 people paying into Social Security for every person receiving retirement benefits.
      In 1950, there were 16.5 people paying into Social Security for every person receiving retirement benefits.
      In 1970, there were 3.7 people paying into Social Security for every person receiving retirement benefits.
      In 1990, there were 3.4 people paying into Social Security for every person receiving retirement benefits.
      In 2010, there were 2.9 people paying into Social Security for every person receiving retirement benefits.

      Income inequality has nothing to do with the problem.

    26. Re:This will die in the senate by mpercy · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but those are longevity statistics (and not correct per CDC figures). You are ignoring the odds of making it to 60, mortality statistics.

      Average life expectancy of people born in 1930, 59.20.
      Average life expectancy of people born in 1940, 63.62.
      Average life expectancy of people born in 1950, 68.07.
      Average life expectancy of people born in 1960, 69.89.
      Average life expectancy of people born in 1970, 70.75.
      Average life expectancy of people born in 1980, 73.88.
      Average life expectancy of people born in 1990, 75.37.
      Average life expectancy of people born in 2000, 76.86.

      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 60 in 1930, 15.24 (i.e., live to average of 75.24).
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 60 in 1940, 15.91 (75.91)
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 60 in 1950, 17.04 (77.04)
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 60 in 1960, 17.71 (77.71)
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 60 in 1970, 18.34 (78.34)
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 60 in 1980, 20.02 (80.02)
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 60 in 1990, 20.90 (80.90)
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 60 in 2000, 21.55 (81.55)

      http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/n...

    27. Re:This will die in the senate by mpercy · · Score: 1

      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 20 in 1930, 45.94
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 20 in 1940, 48.54
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 20 in 1950, 51.20
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 20 in 1960, 52.58
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 20 in 1970, 53.00
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 20 in 1980, 55.46
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 20 in 1990, 56.63
      Average number of years of life remaining for those who were 20 in 2000, 57.82

      In other words...

      For those reaching adulthood in 1940, the average person was expected to live 3.5 years beyond SS age of 65. Pay in for 45 years, collect for 3-4 years.
      For those reaching adulthood in 2000, the average person is expected to live 10.82 years beyond SS age of 67. Pay in for 47 years, collect for 10-11 years.

    28. Re:This will die in the senate by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      Please explain how social security is not a Ponzi scheme?

      The first generation that received social security was paid by the working generation (2nd generation). The 2nd generation is paid for by the 3rd generation and so on. It only works as long as the next generation (new investors) grows fast enough to pay for the current generation. This is classic Ponzi scheme, the first investers get paid off right away (and well), and the second investers pay for them and they get paid less well, and then the 3rd generation get paid even less, and so on, and you can only sustain it if you get more investors or you actually generate income. Unless I am mistaken, the only income social security gets is from the current investors.

      Well, you're basically right, though there had been moves to put the system on a more rational footing, such as the resolution of the 1983 Social Security crisis, which was supposed to create a permanent "trust fund" that anticipated the retirement of the Baby Boomers and was supposed to save money in advance for that. (For a long, but relatively balanced account, see here.)

      Unfortunately, very shortly after Reagan and Congress negotiated this deal, they decided just to throw the newly collected funds into the general federal funds, rather than saving them.

      So -- I suppose you can say it has ended up as a Ponzi scheme, but it wasn't originally intended to be one, and when the first predictions were sounded in the early 1980s that it might turn into one, the government took action (apparently) to try to prevent it.

      But... well, they couldn't keep their "hands out of the cookie jar," and once the taxes were collected, the money was just spent on wars, etc.

    29. Re:This will die in the senate by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Even if congress didn't keep 'taking money' from it, social security would still run out of money (by 2040 or who knows when), because it is removing more than it puts in. This is an easily fixable problem, at least, there are many ways it could be fixed........however with each year that passes, the fix becomes harder. If we had fixed it in 2000, it would have been easier than now.

      It's STILL easier to fix if we do something now, rather than waiting, but it seems destined to remain yet another example of government incompetence.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    30. Re:This will die in the senate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, and then they did 1941, 1942, and onward. i think we all agree on the progression of time, however that is not the issue being discussed

    31. Re:This will die in the senate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please explain how social security is not a Ponzi scheme?

      The lack of intention to commit fraud.

      The Social Security System does have legitimate earnings, and if you're concerned about their incomes, well, it may surprise you, but so is the administration of Social Security.

      Now if you want to say Congress if a bunch of fuck-ups who aren't fixing the program when they could do so, then feel free to join the rest of the crowd.

    32. Re:This will die in the senate by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      On the other hand - that should pretty much destroy your unemployment worries, since you'll have more retirees than new entrants - looking for work should become a seller's market (which I consider the ideal economic situation) - where wages once again rise, benefits are stronger and quality-of-life over-all goes up tremendously for the entire population. The happiest and wealthiest nations are the ones where for each job-seeker you have several companies competing for their services, trying to outbid one another to get you to work for them.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    33. Re:This will die in the senate by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      So, considering that the average person is still paying in almost 4 times as long as they are gaining, there should be no reason why this cannot be solved.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    34. Re:This will die in the senate by Kuberz · · Score: 2

      According to SSA, once you make it to 65 (which is when many chose to retire), your chances of making it past 80 go wayyyyy up!!!!

      http://www.ssa.gov/planners/li...

      I use to work in life insurance, trust me, your facts are wrong. Social Security is not fine. It needs much more than a minor change. This is due to Social Security being dumped into congresses budget. Meaning when the government gets all the Social Security tax money in, it pays out what it needs to, and then takes the rest and spends it. Even if they made changes now (which will not happen), it would make little difference.

      Once you take into account labor force numbers, and then take into account baby boomer numbers... I'm sorry your just wrong. I mean your basically doing elementary school math and expecting to solve a college level problem.

      And how anyone could support this BS program is beyond me. Basically, it's Uncle Tom saying "hey if you give me % of every paycheck, when you retire I promise I'll give it back". You would get way more money (and I do mean way more) if you put that money in 1 of any of the other retirement programs that have been established. Social Security should be optional, or, if people really think you should be forced into a retirement program... At the very least, you should be able to sub your Social Security tax into a separate program.

    35. Re:This will die in the senate by Kuberz · · Score: 1

      Social Security was actually established as a temporary measure during the Great Depression. It was created for retirees during the Great Depression because they had no money and needed to survive (this was when the poverty rate for retirees was over 50%). It was built as a temporary solution.

      You can argue about this all day long, but go look at the history. The Federal Government basically saw it as an additional revenue stream for all their programs. Sure they toted it as something else. But if they truly saw it for what they claimed, they wouldn't be spending it, they would be investing it so as to maximize the amount of money retirees receive.

    36. Re:This will die in the senate by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      You would hope it would destroy the unemployment issues. However, i have serious doubts if the economic growth doesn't improve and workers retiring is the solution to unemployment. There will likely be problems negating and improvements.

      Its sad. But i have little hope of real economic improvement any time soon. I agree that low unemployment is the best way to increase wages and brnefits.

    37. Re:This will die in the senate by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      For one thing, Ponzi schemes blow up eventually. There aren't enough new investors to pay the older investors off. In this case, generation N's retirement is paid for by generation N+1, so there's always new investors. The first generation lucked out, since there wasn't a zeroth generation to pay for, but it's gotten more or less stable (more or less depending on your predictions of what inflation does, overall interest rates do, what future birth rates are, and what Congress does).

      A Ponzi scheme has a limited number of potential investors. Social Security has an unlimited number. Once you get into infinities, things change.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    38. Re:This will die in the senate by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Income inequality does contribute to the problem. There's an individual cap on Social Security contributions that kicks in at something like twice the median household income, so most people do contribute based on their total income. If everybody made less than that, all income from actually working would be taxed. If you have a lot of people making a whole lot more than the cap, so that that part of income becomes significant, there's less money going in.

      This also makes FICA extremely regressive as a tax, and is the primary reason I pay considerably more Federal taxes, proportionally, than millionaires do.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    39. Re:This will die in the senate by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      It was originally something like a trust fund program. During the Reagan years, it became effectively general income, since the Social Security administration was required to invest money in T-bills.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    40. Re:This will die in the senate by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      They'll never pass up an opportunity to squeeze more money to fund pet projects back home. Hell, they're already talking about tapping the untouched potential of my 401(k).

      Do you pay taxes on services. Get the car repaired and pay for labour and taxes? In most parts of the world, labor is value added and is therefore taxed. Are your phone services taxed?

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  3. "over the objections of some Democrats" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because the ISPs can't be the only one to fuck over the consumer, the government wants to get some of that action too.

    1. Re:"over the objections of some Democrats" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was "over the objections of some Democrats" because they didn't want to say (correctly) that the overwhelming majority of Democrats are tax and spend communists.

  4. So then no public funded internet? by Kenja · · Score: 0

    This means no public internet, it will forever now be a private enterprise. Not sure I like that possibility in the long run given how the ISP monopolies behave.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:So then no public funded internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This means no tax-funded internet, it doesn't mean municipal internet is dead.

    2. Re:So then no public funded internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Using taxes for internet is something completely different than taxing for using the internet. This law bans the latter. You're describing the former.

    3. Re:So then no public funded internet? by jklovanc · · Score: 2

      Not necessarily. It just means no public internet funded by a tax paid by people who pay for internet access and Internet-only services. The funding could come from general taxes.

      There is also no guarantee that such taxes would go to fund public internet. It is quite possible that they would go into general revenue and be use to fund other things.

    4. Re:So then no public funded internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, it means no taxes on internet access. If a city or state wanted to have a socialist-styled state owned ISP instead of the current craze of fascist-style state selected ISP, this would do nothing to stop them. Just as the repeated extensions of the original law have done nothing to regulate who sponsors/starts an ISP.

    5. Re:So then no public funded internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention it only prevents them from taxing rivals to support it. They can still do it out of a property taxes, gas taxes, cigarrete taxes, whatever.

    6. Re:So then no public funded internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The summary talks about taxing internet access, not funding it. Please provide proper citations from the Bill that prohibit funding, or subsidizing, of internet access.

    7. Re:So then no public funded internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. It says you can't charge a tax on Internet services (e.g. imposing a $0.10/Mbps surcharge). It doesn't say you can't charge a tax on other things, and then use that tax to provide Internet access.

    8. Re:So then no public funded internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No publicly-funded-from-general-taxes internet. There's nothing in this law to say that infrastructure installations can't be paid for out of general tax funds. There just can't be a special "internet access improvement tax". Nor is there a ban against charging money for municipal internet service. Just that they can't tax it above and beyond the price of service.

    9. Re:So then no public funded internet? by AgentSmith · · Score: 2

      Then universities will have to find a way to communicate information between them. They will allow students to communicate along this network and setup locations to have conversations. Soon the public in the surrounding areas will have access to this inter and intra connection. Languages will be formed to allow simpler communication and distribution. Soon it will be used by businesses and completes monetized. Then universities will have to find a way to . . .

    10. Re:So then no public funded internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now I wish I was back on my 26.6k :( goddamn you Google!

    11. Re:So then no public funded internet? by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

      This means no public internet, it will forever now be a private enterprise. Not sure I like that possibility in the long run given how the ISP monopolies behave.

      So you're saying you'd like the NSA to have direct access to your internet activity? Nice.

    12. Re:So then no public funded internet? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      No, this just means that local municipalities cannot attach an excise tax to internet service, like they do for telephone service.

      Governments are free to spend tax dollars on building networks and providing access, within applicable legal frameworks.

      Example - City X cannot attach a 5% excise tax onto your cable modem service in order to pay for sewer repairs.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    13. Re:So then no public funded internet? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      It doesn't even mean that. It means no tax funding of government Internet projects (or anything else) using taxes on (private) Internet services.

      They can still fund it out of general funds (or state gas taxes, for that matter, which are often used for things other than roads.)

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    14. Re:So then no public funded internet? by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      If a city or state wanted to have a public utility type state owned ISP instead of the current craze of profit/rent seeking privately owned ISP, this would incentivize the status quo.

      There. FTFY.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    15. Re:So then no public funded internet? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      So you're saying you'd like the NSA to have direct access to your internet activity? Nice.

      They already have that, and meanwhile, we also get fucked over by the cable and phone companies.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    16. Re:So then no public funded internet? by umghhh · · Score: 1

      did not bother to look it up we are on /. after all but if other bills are anything to go by there are probably hunderds of pages to sift trough and after that a clerk in congress can add, modify or remove parts of the text before it gets published. Sometimes I wonder why US was ever an example of functioning democracy.

    17. Re:So then no public funded internet? by lgw · · Score: 1

      Public utilities are (usually) still for-profit companies, just with government-set prices (and often a government-enforced monopoly). Taxes don't enter into it.

      I'd love to see the "last mile" connection maintained by public utilities, breaking all cable company monopolies everywhere, but both "profit seeking" and "taxes" are orthogonal to that discussion.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    18. Re:So then no public funded internet? by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      I'd love to see the "last mile" connection maintained by public utilities, breaking all cable company monopolies everywhere,

      I couldn't agree more.

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    19. Re:So then no public funded internet? by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      One's annoying. The other could lead to my kids getting gassed for being enemies of the state. Guess which one I'm more concerned about.

      And no, I'm not exaggerating or kidding. If you think your phone bills more important, fuck you.

    20. Re:So then no public funded internet? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      One's annoying. The other could lead to my kids getting gassed for being enemies of the state. Guess which one I'm more concerned about.

      Why don't you concern yourself with reading comprehension? Or the ability to perform basic reasoning? Go back and read my comment again (and again, and again, apparently) until you understand that you're talking nonsense.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  5. do you read? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    has passed a passed a

    1. Re:do you read? by ichthus · · Score: 1

      Why you no like-a the pasta pasta?

      --
      sig: sauer
    2. Re:do you read? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Replying just about your signature...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  6. November? by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 1

    Without reading the details.. I doubt this will pass, if its democrat sponsered, the repubs will shut it down in the house. If it's GOP approved, the senate will kill it. Gotta love our divided country!

    1. Re:November? by gunner_von_diamond · · Score: 2

      Without reading the details.. I doubt this will pass, if its democrat sponsered, the repubs will shut it down in the house. If it's GOP approved, the senate will kill it. Gotta love our divided country!

      Seperation of power results in loss of power for all!

    2. Re:November? by Major+Blud · · Score: 1

      Both the article and the summary state that it's already passed the House.

      I'm curious, do any other countries tax Internet usage? I know the French proposed doing it to pay for their state-owned public television stations but I'm not sure how far that went.

      --
      If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
    3. Re:November? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "if its democrat sponsered, the repubs will shut it down in the house"

      "Now the U.S. House has passed a passed a permanent version of the ban, which also applies to several states that had passed Internet taxes before 1998 and were grandfathered in under the temporary law. The Senate must pass the bill as well by November 1 or the temporary ban will lapse."

      I mean, it's right in the summary man.

    4. Re:November? by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Tax cuts, no matter how silly, pretty much always seem to pass.

      I'm going to go ahead and make the controversial decision to announce my opposition to this one. Pretty much all infrastructure is taxed, why should the Internet be different?

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    5. Re:November? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the price that ISPs charge is already insanely fucking expensive to begin with. I have a few ISPs that offer service in my area: Comcast, Comcast, and Comcast. I pay a lot of money already, and fuck anyone who wants to jack the price up even more. Fix the monopoly situation and then we'll talk.

    6. Re:November? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      because a concept should not be taxed, the infrastructure IS taxed, meaning the servers and cables and the like. This is about taxing access to the internet. do you think you should have to pay a nickle everytime you log in to the government??? I dont

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    7. Re:November? by Dins · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seperation of power results in loss of power for all!

      As it should be. We need fewer laws, not more of them.

    8. Re:November? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Pretty much all infrastructure is taxed, why should the Internet be different?

      Other infrastructure, such as bridges and sewers, are taxed because THE GOVERNMENT BUILT THEM. So they are taxed to pay off the bonds that financed their construction, and to pay for ongoing maintenance. The Internet runs on fibers, cables, and routers financed by private companies. It is a different situation.

    9. Re:November? by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      There is VAT (sales tax) on telecommunication services in every country in the EU, ranging from 15% in Luxembourg to 27% in Hungary. The average rate is around 20%.

    10. Re:November? by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 1

      do you think you should have to pay a nickle everytime you log in to the government???

      Gee, I wish I had a login for the government...

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    11. Re:November? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when ISPs/media companies start locking customers out of competitor websites, thankfully we'll have fewer laws!

    12. Re:November? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Congress misuses the Interstaye Commerce Clause in many Rube Goldbergian arguments to extend their power, but this is a legitimate, direct use of it for its real intention: stopping states from throwing up roadblocks to interstate commerce.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    13. Re:November? by squiggleslash · · Score: 1, Interesting

      No, railroads, phone lines, and electric wires are not (usually) in the US built by the government. Try again.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    14. Re:November? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And who built the government? Your fucking taxes did. Taxed to pay off the bonds that were pulled from public funds. Lovely.

    15. Re:November? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Refactoring the legal code is an extremely expensive process, and the downstream impact tends to have a lot of surprising negative consequences.

      So, much like longstanding code products, the legal code is full of hacks, dead code, and technical debt. And probably always will be.

    16. Re:November? by Major+Blud · · Score: 1

      Interesting, thanks for the info. So is this a tax on service fees or products purchased over the Internet (or are there separate taxes for both)?

      Is this tax earmarked for a particular item, or added to the country's general fund? Sorry I realize you may not know the answers to these questions.

      --
      If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
    17. Re:November? by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      The tax I was referring to is on the service fees. Sales tax on products purchased online is at the same rate as for products purchased offline. Of the sales tax, 0.33% goes to EU funds and the rest goes to the country's own general funds.

    18. Re:November? by ichthus · · Score: 1

      I don't think he mentioned railroads, phone lines or electric wires in his post.

      Try again.

      --
      sig: sauer
    19. Re:November? by RoccamOccam · · Score: 1

      You can be sure that it wasn't Democrat-sponsored and opposed by (at least a few) Republicans. Otherwise that would be in the summary.

      From the article: "The House, in a voice vote Tuesday, passed the Permanent Internet Tax Freedom Act, over the objections of some Democrats."

    20. Re:November? by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      It's also about internet-only services.

      Texas has such a tax, for example. When my wife and I played World of Warcraft, we had to pay the monthly (or quarterly, whatever) subscription charge and a tax on the service. People in most other states don't have to, because Texas has had its take on internet-only services like that from before 1998.

      Before WoW, my wife and I played EverQuest, except she started her account when we still lived in Tennessee. Even after we moved to Texas, her account was never subjected to the Texas tax, even though mine was and both accounts were (now) on the same address and credit card. Oops, I guess EA's system to collect taxes was flawed. It wasn't until about when we cancelled that I finally realized this was why we were being charged different amounts.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    21. Re:November? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think he mentioned railroads, phone lines or electric wires in his post.

      Try again.

      Plus the build out of all those things were government funded/subsidized or eminent-domained away. He's right that the "government" doesn't build anything. Neither does a "corporation" - neither has a body to build with. They pay others to do so for them.

    22. Re:November? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is what you get living in a shitty area. If you think Comcast is the only game in town, you deserve to be fleeced you dumb fuck.

      I currently pay $25 for 40MB/5MB, last year I was paying $15 for 20MB/1MB.

    23. Re:November? by jfengel · · Score: 1

      It was sponsored by over 200 people on both sides. It passed by a "voice vote" which means they didn't track exactly who voted for it or against it, but it was overwhelmingly positive. I gather that a few Democrats voted against it, mostly on the grounds that some states tax it and need it as a revenue source (it's a Republican thing to believe that collecting less taxes somehow magically decreases deficits rather than increasing them), but mostly, it's hard to vote against a tax cut in an election year.

      Because of that there's a good chance that it will flounder and die in the Senate. The House is 100% up in November, but the Senators are a bit more responsible about forbidding states from raising revenues, and the Senators from Texas (which lose their exemption under the current moratorium) may ask Reid to spike it.

      So arguably, this is more about ending the moratorium than extending it: by voting up a permanent ban they've diminished the chances of extending the temporary one. I don't know all of the inside-baseball on this one and there's more that I'm not seeing, so I can't give a confident prediction.

    24. Re:November? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoever modded you at -1 needs to stand under the WHOOSH plane for the next 30 years.

    25. Re:November? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's a Republican thing to believe that collecting less taxes somehow magically decreases deficits rather than increasing them

      I think the correct phrase is that "decreasing the marginal tax rates increases overall tax receipts", which has been demonstrated to be correct many times previously, and has apparently been wildly successful in countries with low, flat-tax rates. Part of this stems from more people filing and paying taxes - because more people can now afford to - and part of the flat-tax success comes from more people filing and paying due to the extreme simplification of the tax code.

      Note that I'm not advocating a flat tax, but a significantly simplified tax system and lower marginal rates across the board would probably boost tax receipts significantly, even in the US.

    26. Re:November? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      based on what, exactly? why would an increasing complex world need less laws?
      You are begging the question.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    27. Re:November? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I think a tax is a great way to add to the infrastructure. IT's a great way to help balance out revenues lost from higher fuel economies.

      People look and complain about the Speeds i the US compared to other countries and complain. Ignoring that other countries tax in order to get high speeds infrastructure.

      This gimme more and don't tax me attitude needs to end.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    28. Re:November? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is what you get living in a shitty area.

      Yeah, how dare I purchase a house without caring solely about available ISPs!

      Have you ever thought that it might be better if we just solved this problem in general? A lot of areas with monopoly situations shouldn't be like that.

      If you think Comcast is the only game in town, you deserve to be fleeced you dumb fuck.

      It's the only game in ***my*** town. If you expect me to move from my own house just to get more available ISPs, you're an idiot.

    29. Re:November? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >As it should be. We need fewer laws, not more of them.

      While I agree with the general principle you DO need enough of a functioning system to be able to actually pass the good laws and revoke the bad ones.
      A government that cannot get either done at all (which is what the US has today) is nothing but a massive and worthless expense.

      As an anarchist the system I favour would make new laws much easier to suggest and pass than any govenrment but, with a much greater level of oversight (since everybody votes on every proposed law) and by removing politicians you make corruption far more difficult and oligarchy all but impossible.
      On the other hand - libertarians generally hate the idea because they know that an anarchism is likely to be stronger welfare state with the sensible ideas from socialism in place and the bad ones ignored (or rapidly revoked) instead of their "unregulate everything" madness. A small government gives you all the downsides of a government with none of the potential benefits.
      No government or big government are both better ideas (actually - I would argue that no government is the biggest government of them all - since now EVERYBODY is part of the government).

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    30. Re: November? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe the isps should build up their networks instead of buying a new yacht every month

  7. There's no such thing as a "permanent ban" by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 0

    This is a law. Like all laws, it is automatically superseded by any later laws passed.

    This "permanent" ban is valid only until Congress passes a law allowing (or mandating) a tax on internet access, and is automatically voided by such a law.

    In other words, this is a waste of time, and it doesn't matter in the slightest if this dies in the Senate, is vetoed by the President, or just burned in effigy....

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    1. Re:There's no such thing as a "permanent ban" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is the "until a later congress decides otherwise" extension of a law that was passed in 1998 with a "only so long as congress re-affirms it every ~4 years" clause. The only part of it that was heavily debated in the house was some democrats arguing that it should be a campaign issue every couple years and some other democrats arguing that their constituents are sick of seeing it come up every 4 years and want it permanent. Republicans argued about what it meant in regards to states' authority to tax in their own jurisdictions, then decided that it was constitutional enough since it had been uncontested law for 16 years.

    2. Re:There's no such thing as a "permanent ban" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is permanant in the sense that it doesn't expire. It can as you say be repealed. The advantage is that congress doesn't have to agree to anything for this to continue on, repeal would require another agreement after the one to pass it originally.

    3. Re:There's no such thing as a "permanent ban" by Dragonslicer · · Score: 2

      I thought the exact same thing, but the summary seems to say that it does change one thing: states that currently have taxes on Internet service are no longer allowed to have them. The word "permanent" is a bit weird, but apparently it only means "does not require annual renewal".

    4. Re:There's no such thing as a "permanent ban" by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Except that this one law from Congress makes sure that 10,000 municipalities cannot enact a tax on internet service.

      So it is not a waste of time.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    5. Re:There's no such thing as a "permanent ban" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Indefinite" would be a much more appropriate term.

    6. Re:There's no such thing as a "permanent ban" by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Two things:

      If the law that this law is replacing accomplished the same thing but required annual renewal, then no States will have taxes on internet services.

      Unless this is a matter in Interstate Commerce (admittedly, it's probably an easy case to make, but then automobile sales are a matter of Interstate Commerce, and are taxed by the several States), the Federal Government actually has no jurisdiction to tell the States they can't pass their own laws.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  8. the other way around by raymorris · · Score: 3, Informative

    The bill says that your internet bill won't be used to pay for government, not that government can't pay for internet. Concrete examples - you can't tax voting. Governments can and do pay for voting machines. You don't get taxed on sending your kids to school. The government does pay for government schools. You don't pay a tax on researching solar panels, the government does pay for solar panel research.

  9. passed a passed a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    dot beta slash

  10. Bundled Fees? by bswarm · · Score: 1

    Franchise Fee $4.91, FCC Fee $0.09, Total fees $5.00 per month. For TV and Internet.

    1. Re:Bundled Fees? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's all for the cable television portion of the bill. an internet only account may also have a (smaller) 'franchise fee' however, depending upon the agreement between your cable company and the local franchise authority (typically your municipality, township or county).

      this may be good news for wisconsin, texas, and other states that have had sales tax on internet access going back to the 90s.. although, i expect them to find some way to fuck over its residents and continue collecting sales tax on internet access even if this 'ban' takes effect... because, well, that's the way government works. ain't this farcemocracy grand?

    2. Re:Bundled Fees? by bswarm · · Score: 1

      You should see my water bill, $17 for water plus about $100 in taxes and surcharges every month.

  11. a bit of legislative history by nimbius · · Score: 2, Interesting

    in 1998 there was a sizeable movement to declare internet access a 'basic human right' and as such, make it an entitlement. Since republicans and conservatives alike respond to the word Entitlement in much the same way as a microwave responds to a sack of paper clips, its safe to say this legislation was enacted to ensure your internet remains permanently comcastic. so how did this come to pass?
    the International Telecommunication Union (ITU), following a proposal by the government of Tunisia during ITU Plenipotentiary Conference in Minneapolis in 1998, approved Resolution 73 to hold a World Summit on the Information Society and put forward it to the United Nations. It cant be stressed enough that 1998 was clearly a better year for congress as is evidenced by the fact that legislators got wind of the WSIS and its strong position on internet as a basic human right. Much like affirming things like the kyoto protocol and the basic human right to water, the internet was sandbagged in america to ensure it would never amount to something as horrifying as a free service. amending it recently simply extended its reach to local governments. It did now however close a loophole being exploited by local municipalities in which the 'tax' for their paid services like WiMAX and municipal broadband was bundled under things like vehicle registration fees (something used by local governments that need to fund schools but have politicians who promise no new taxes.)

    by shitting on the idea of a tax for internet service, congressional republicans have created a two-tier system in america in much the same way as education and housing exist. underprivileged or poor students and families seeking internet access are now relegated back to the library, and those libraries in turn forced to shovel federal dollars into the gaping maw of AT&T and Verizon for something that, yes, is increasingly more of a basic human right in the 21st century.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:a bit of legislative history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "in 1998 there was a sizeable movement to declare internet access a 'basic human right' and as such, make it an entitlement. "

      And why should it be an entitlement? Want to provide it to the world? Pay for it. Lay the infrastructure, provide the means, and then you go ahead and do so. Hell, you can put together a private consortium to do so, and probably get funding from private charities, etc. Start a kickstarter campaign. Just stop using my tax dollars for the so-called social good.

      Just because YOU think something is a *right*, does not make it so.

    2. Re:a bit of legislative history by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As was previously pointed out, there is nothing in this bill to prevent PAYING FOR Internet services out of tax revenues, only that services can't be arbitrarily made more expensive by local governments, states, and the Federal government itself. There's also nothing preventing municipalities from building networks and Internet services - and they can charge for that service just like anyone else. They just can't charge a service fee AND a tax.

      So your rant is based on a false premise.

      To use your phrasing, it says we don't want governments shitting on the idea of having Internet access without paying a tax for the privilege.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    3. Re:a bit of legislative history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because YOU think something is a *right*, does not make it so.

      And just because YOU think something isn't a *right*, does not make it so.

    4. Re:a bit of legislative history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think dumbasses like you have a right to breathe oxygen.

    5. Re:a bit of legislative history by umghhh · · Score: 1

      I think they still can - the ban is on tax if they introduce a fee this is allowed then. Problem solved.

    6. Re:a bit of legislative history by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      How exactly is someone who has trouble getting enough to eat going to pay the expense required to exercise this "right" you claim that they have? You do not have the right to require someone else to provide you with something.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    7. Re:a bit of legislative history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in 1998 there was a sizeable movement to declare internet access a 'basic human right' and as such, make it an entitlement.

      Weird.

      Water, food and shelter aren't 'basic human rights', but internet access should be.

      Go figure.

    8. Re:a bit of legislative history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      republicans and conservatives alike [...] microwave responds to a sack of paper clips

      An enjoyable sentence. Thank you.
      However, a nitpick: republicans *AND* conservatives?

    9. Re:a bit of legislative history by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      The typical phone and cable bill in the US includes on average a $4 levy by your local city/state. These are easy taxes for the localities to pass. Congress anticipated localities using "internet" taxes to try to balance budgets and banned them before many could pass them (even though a few got them passed before congress could act). This tax ban should have been made permanent years ago and waived those localities that jumped at the opportunity and put taxes in place. It specifically prevents cities from tacking on a $4 tax onto your internet bill and that's a good thing because those taxes are HIGHLY regressive and disproportionately harm the poor.

      I'm one of those silly individuals that think nickle and dime'ing everyone with fee's and taxes on every little thing is bad tax policy. We need a straight up progressive income tax with no exceptions, deductions, credits or waivers. If they need more money let them raise the base tax. This BS where they tax every little thing and service is grossly unfair and tends to disproportionately shift the tax burden to the middle class/poor and excessively harms the poor. That $4 tax on your phone, cable and TV bill ends up being a 1% tax on the poor and 0.000001% tax on the rich. And when you add all the different $4 taxes on everything the poor can end up paying 10% of their income in taxes and fees on these utility taxes. The only "items" that should have taxes are those things that require a massive public owned infrastructure to build and maintain and those that use the system should be paying for it with a tax on the item that measures the use of that infrastructure such as a per mile tax on roadway use. Everything else should be a straight up income tax.

    10. Re:a bit of legislative history by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      These are easy taxes for the localities to pass.

      Then they should be eliminated, or at least made more difficult to pass. WTH?

      We need a straight up progressive income tax with no exceptions, deductions, credits or waivers.

      Well we already have the most progressive tax system in the world, but you're right, it needs to be flattened, and the vast majority of those deductions, exceptions, etc. NEED to be eliminated. There is a MAJOR issue with the complexity of the current tax code. This desperately needs fixing, and no one is even talking about it.

      If they need more money let them raise the base tax. This BS where they tax every little thing and service is grossly unfair and tends to disproportionately shift the tax burden to the middle class/poor and excessively harms the poor.

      Exactly this.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    11. Re:a bit of legislative history by Talderas · · Score: 1

      But Obamacare was written as a fee but it's actually a tax.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    12. Re:a bit of legislative history by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      It's a "right" if it's paid for by OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY - Just don't ask ME to pony up one cent for it.

      This is the way of the world. Of course the naive and ignorant think that the fat pig that is capitalism can be bled endlessly...

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
  12. so by desdinova+216 · · Score: 1

    why am I charged sales tax on the streaming part of my netflix account?

    1. Re:so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      netflix is not internet access.

    2. Re:so by desdinova+216 · · Score: 1

      well TFS did mention Internet only services

    3. Re:so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "internet only service" refers to the service of providing internet access. i can see how the term can cause confusion, but it doesn't refer to a service offered over the internet.

  13. Oh, noes? It's a "must-pass" bill??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The Senate must pass the bill as well by November 1 or the temporary ban will lapse." *or*, work out some other arrangement like a 2 year extension. Or didn't the writer pass what used to be Junior-High level civics?

  14. Most importantly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What else, exactly, is attached to this bill that got it to pass? I smell a backdoor attempt on this thing.

  15. Yeah House! by njhunter · · Score: 2

    Hopefully the Senate will follow right away and they won't try to kill it with stupid politics.

    1. Re:Yeah House! by Kariles70 · · Score: 1

      If it is not about furthering their power and influence they usually are not interested.

    2. Re:Yeah House! by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Why? Do you have a clue how disastrous this will be?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  16. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Senate would not pass up the oportunity to steal more money from us.

    If it does pass, then everybody needs to look at the small print, because it will do something else we don't accept.

  17. U.S. DEMOCRATIC LEAD SENATE VETOES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Too bad the DEMOCRATIC lead senate had more nays than yays.
    More democrats supporting anti-internet movements. Sigh.

  18. The Pubs by geekoid · · Score: 1

    continue driving the country towards become a cesspool of ignorance.
    Anything to stop funding of key programs.
    I think this show they are attacking any non rich person in the country, and we shouldn't stand for it. It's class warfare, and the rich are winning.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  19. Tax the same and allow cities to build networks. by techdolphin · · Score: 1

    Municipalities should be allowed to build their own networks. I guess the ISPs are afraid of their competition.

    The Internet does not deserve any special tax privileges. If my phone service can be taxed, so could my Internet service. Goods brought on the Internet should also be subject to the same sales taxes as goods bought locally, because, otherwise, Internet stores have an advantage.

    That being said, I hate sales taxes because they are so regressive. I also despise that income is taxed differently. Wages should not be taxed more or less than other income. For example, the carried interest classification is unfair and horrible. Personally, I would like to get rid of sales taxes and most other taxes and fund most things with progressive income taxes.

  20. If access taxes are banned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    then why does my ISP charge me things like "regulatory cost recovery fee" and "compliance overhead surcharge" and shit like that?

  21. Moderators on drugs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Again, a funny and insightful comment that exposes the truth is buried. I think the moderators want to destroy this site. They're certainly doing all that they can to ruin it.

  22. Our city imposes a 3% tax on utilities by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Our city imposes (suckered the voters into approving) a 3% tax on utilities - comm, power, gas, ... - and has for several years. I think that includes internet service (which is pretty steep around here). My wife and I have been fighting this law and its renewal. (It is driving businesses out of the city - they can cut their costs substantially by relocating just over the line - and thus both blighting the city and cutting other tax revenue.

    I think I need to do a little checking to see if they ARE taxing the internet part of the phone bill and if that's prohibited federally. Zapping them for a refund (for everybody, for several years worth) might get their attention. B-)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  23. Forgive me, but are you stupid? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The pundits are passing it off as a ban on taxes for Internet access alone, but it's also a ban on any form of Internet-only taxes. That is fucking insane.

  24. Now you just wait... by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

    When Harry Reid refuses to bring this to the floor of the Senate... and all the lib/progs scream that it's those evil House Rethugnicans who are the party of "No"

    --
    Murphy was an optimist