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The Great Taxi Upheaval

An anonymous reader writes: Uber, Lyft, and a variety of competitors are becoming ubiquitous. Their presence is jarring not because of how different they are from conventional taxis, but simply because they're different at all. Taxis really haven't changed much over the years. Watch a movie from the '90s and you can't help but chuckle at the giant, clunky mobile phones they use. But you can go all the way back to movies from '30s and scenes with taxis won't be unfamiliar. New York Magazine has a series of articles about the taxi revolution currently underway. "So far, Uber appears to be pinching traditional car services—Carmel, Dial 7, and the like—hardest. (They have apps, too, but Uber's is the one you've heard of.) The big question is about the prices for medallions, because so much of the yellow-cab business depends on their future value. ... [I]t's hard to see how those prices won't slip. Medallions, after all, are part of a top-down system formed to fight the abuses and dangers of the old crooked New York: rattletrap cars, overclocked meters, bribed inspectors. Its heavy regulation in turn empowered the taxi lobby and (somewhat) the drivers union. That system may be a pain to deal with, but in its defense, it provided predictability and security. The loosey-goosey libertarian alternative, conceived in the clean Northern California air, calls upon the market to provide checks and balances. A poorly served passenger can, instead of turning to a city agency for recourse, switch allegiances or sue."

39 of 218 comments (clear)

  1. The Free Market has the Technology Now by drfred79 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What was previously missing from the free market was perfect information. We live in an age where perfect information can be possible. Over regulation is now a hindrance to society.

    1. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Really? Perfect information? You trust an app from one vendor to give you a fair pricing vs. another vendor?

    2. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A look at how other online rating systems have been rigged suggests you're being hopelessly naive.

      --
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    3. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by Imrik · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You don't have to get all your information from one source.

    4. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by TWX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And yet we all hate massive, faceless corporations that abuse us as customers but those are the most successful corporations, and often when dealing with companies we're stuck with either a premium price or dealing with the lesser-of-evils.

      The "Free Market" is a myth. Suing to recover one's losses is a myth, at least as far as getting the defendant to actually respond to suits in small-claims is concerned. One can win by default judgement and then what? Good luck collecting.

      There's a reason for taxi medallions, registrars of contractors, business licenses, landlord-tenant laws, and other regulation services, and it's to keep those that run those businesses honest and to protect the consumer. A bad-apple can operate for YEARS when new customers in a market don't know to avoid them, even if existing customers have reviewed them as bad. After all, when you're new to a market you don't necessarily even know how to find the reviews for that market, and a private service like Uber, while interested in providing reviews, won't go out of their way to disrespect their drivers as it in turn disrespects their very service. They have to tread a fine line as their service is dependent on their service providers, so they literally can't afford to be free-market in this sense.

      I practice caveat emptor. Something that seems too good to be true often is. Something that starts out cheap and good probably won't be cheap and good for very long once its inertia sets in. Think about radio stations, when a station has a complete format change, the new station is often great, few ads, very short self-promotion clips, lots of music, DJs that don't talk that much. But that's when they're in the initial attract-listener phase. Once they've got a listener base they can sell ads. They need to bring the cost of the music down so they make longer self-promotion clips, and they have their DJs talk more since DJ airtime doesn't really cost anything, and soon they're no different that their competitors.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    5. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > What was previously missing from the free market was perfect information

      Oh, thank you! I have to put that one up as my new "stupidest claim of the week" motto!

      My dear boy, welcome to Heisenberg. The energy exerted to collect that "perfect information" would itself involve so much energy, money, effort, and overload of information that it would itself profoundly distort the situation. And let's be frank, people *lie*. They lie about ignoring fares they don't feel like picking up because the passenger is black or hispanic, they lie about insurance and training and what happened to the wallet left in the car, and they lie to the cabbies about how much cash they've got.

      Your under-experienced college kid scoring a few bucks for pizza money and using mom's credit card to pay for insurance and gas bills is *not* usually going to be able to handle the cab pick up of the drunk at the party who wants to go to the last open bar, the confused diabetic, or the carsick toddler.

      Well, I could, I worked ambulance when I was 20. But I'm weird.

    6. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by CRCulver · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And if one service offers an obstensibly cheaper price but has deficiencies that could actually cost you more money, result in tragedy, etc., how do you know that? The cost of a service is not necessarily what it says on the price tag. So, in the absence of any real regulation, you would have to rely on third-party opinions about the company in question, and "perfect information" it isn't.

    7. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by nickmalthus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I would presume perfect information means complete information. If that is the case then why would any business be compelled to release information that could be perceived as critical to their operations without regulation or the threat of regulation? As we have seen with the GM case keeping consumers in the dark about safety issues pads the bottom line and they would have gotten away with if it weren't for those pesky NHTSA regulators. I always find it amusing when the captains of industry get on television and berate government regulation and accountability their first line of defense for impropriety is always the mantra "it may be unethical but it is not illegal".

      I do think that the goals regulation should be to enforce transparency, clarity, and legal accountability more than just simply restricting certain types of activities.

      --
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    8. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And yet you seem to think that a "kinda regular" inspection by a harried municipal bureaucrat will somehow magically eliminate the chance of fraud, tragedy, etc?

      A complaint directed to a government bureaucrat has the possibility of threatening the firm's ability to do business overall. In the absence of regulation, a customer who has been wronged has the ability only to sue with regard to his own personal case, and that prospect doesn't trouble companies: they'll take the hit in court, and it may be that the plaintiff can't even collect from them anyway.

      Look at any of our heavily regulated industries (Oil, Airlines, Medicine, Finance) and tell me how well that regulation is doing at averting tragedies and reducing the prices people pay?

      I don't deal with oil or finance, but my experience with medicine and airlines in the US, where I was born, and in the EU, where I have lived for a long time now, certainly speaks in favour of more regulation.

      That healthcare is cheaper here for the individual is obvious. As for airlines, consider this: delays in flights in the EU are quite rare now that the airlines would have to compensate passengers; it wasn't fear of losing face and negative online reviews that made airlines stick to their promised schedules, it was the state imposing a heavy cost. As soon as I step outside the EU and fly in parts of the world without a similar law, the punctuality of departures is visibly worse. And the regulation imposed has been smart; airfare is very low in the EU now, often lower than other forms of transportation.

    9. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by sphealey · · Score: 2

      - - - - - In the absence of regulation, a customer who has been wronged has the ability only to sue with regard to his own personal case, and that prospect doesn't trouble companies: - - - -

      Actually, the consumer of the non-regulated service will find that he has signed a binding agreement to settle all disputes in arbitration, using an arbitrator selected by the provider, with no recourse to the courts.

      sPh

      Guess what percentage of arbitrator awards are in favor of the party that selected them?...

    10. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by Noah+Haders · · Score: 3, Informative

      I hate all the FUD about uber/lyft drivers ripping you off. here's how it works: when you end your uber ride they email you a receipt. it shows the route taken (on a map image), total distance, total duration, cost per mile, cost per min, and total price. that's perfect information. you can validate the route taken using your smart phone (either a route tracking app or by looking at your position during the ride), the distance traveled using google maps, and the total duration by looking at your watch. it doesn't get any more transparent than that.

      and if you didn't like your ride, give them a low rating. any one or two star review, you'll never see that driver again. if a driver's rating gets low they'll fire him. it's really really simple.

    11. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by davester666 · · Score: 2

      Great. At the end of the ride, you have "perfect" information, just like EVERY other form of travel. Except at that point, all you get to do is go "next time, I'll make a different choice" and fork over whatever amount the app says is owed.

      --
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    12. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      You're cherry picking.

      Plumbing has evolved only as much as the consumer wants it to. In the developing world you get a hole in the ground. In the western world moving from lead to copper to plastic is about all that was needed. In Japan you get robotic toilets. If there was no regulation at all, it wouldn't have progressed any more.

      The car industry has lots of regulations, yet they make plenty of innovations. The wrench industry is pretty free of regulations, yet the last great innovation was the socket set.

    13. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      Can, yes. Want to, no.

      Take away regulation and you're adding innumerable chores to the public, as they need to do their own safety checking of things they previously just knew were fit for purpose.

      And that's the best case. In the more common case they public simply don't have the information or knowledge required to evaluate.

    14. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by BasilBrush · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sheesh. Is this really a question? How do you know when you buy a plum in the supermarket that it isn't poisoned?

      Back in the 1800s, foods often did contain noxious ingredients, much the same way present day drug dealers cut their products. That's why developed countries started having government departments responsible for trading and food standards.
      The reason very you can shop for your plums without worry is because of regulations and departments that check them.

      You just demonstrated the opposite of what you hoped.

    15. Re:The Free Market has the Technology Now by nbauman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So we see lots of innovations in unregulated industries like semiconductors and software, and little innovation in heavily regulated industries like plumbing.

      Depends. There's a reason for regulation: the unregulated industry was ignoring public safety.

      For example, when I bought my first car in 1960, I couldn't buy an American car with seat belts (and the American manufacturers dominated the American market). We had about 50,000 deaths a year from motor vehicle accidents, seat belts would have reduced them by about half, they were the most cost-efficient safety improvement, and yet the American automobile manufacturers refused to install them -- or to make any safety improvements. For documentation, read Ralph Nader's book, Unsafe at any Speed. Even some of the auto executives Nader interviewed couldn't figure out why. They continued to resist safety regulation until they lost a big product liability case, Larson vs. General Motors, which held them responsible for injuries due to unsafe products. Once they lost in the courts, they were willing to accept regulation. I used to deal with auto safety engineering a lot, and the U.S. regulators seemed to have done a good job. The free market didn't.

      A contrary example would be the airline industry, one of the most innovative industries around. During WWII, the government subsidized aircraft design and production, and was its biggest customer. After the war, they wanted to develop a commercial aircraft industry. The problem was that flying wasn't that safe. Potential customers were worried that they would die in an aircraft accident, and everybody would say how reckless they were. The solution was industry-government cooperation, to develop safety standards. The Federal Aviation Administration established standards for licensing, for maintenance procedures, etc., and aircraft companies had both their own inspectors and government inspectors double-checking them. Sure enough, fatalities went down. They established a model system of safety management, which was adopted by other industries. Back then, government and industry cooperated.

      In coal mining, some companies established rigorous safety procedures, while others didn't. The ones without safety procedures had more fatal accidents. Coal miners can't shop around for jobs. The free market failed. The government stepped in. There are many employers who were happy to let their workers die if they could save money. That's why we have OSHA.

      Regulation is the sign of a failed free market.

  2. Re:Not this again.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fear, uncertainty, doubt.

    You're going to end up in a ditch! Only the government can save you! The government never lets anyone die or have bad things happen to them. Because democracy!

  3. Don't worry, Uber et all will end up regulated.. by west · · Score: 2

    When enough consumers have a "bad experience" with anything vaguely taxi-like, there will be demand that anything that looks of feels like a taxi be regulated to ensure minimal levels of safety and service.

    Sure, perfect information is out there, but that takes effort. Measure the cost of regulation vs. the cost of determining reputation and you'll find that the populace goes for regulation every time. They want to be able to call anything cab-like and be safe. They want to eat in anything restaurant-like and be safe.

    Even if it doesn't significantly increase safety, it doesn't really matter. The feeling of being protected by government regulation increases happiness significantly enough that regulation is pretty much whole-heartedly endorsed by most of the population.

  4. From a non-driver perspective by dada21 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I stopped driving 2 years ago, voluntarily. My SUV cost me around $800 a month in replacement costs. Another $200 in maintenance. I was burning through $12,000 a year in gas. I spent an average of 1000 hours a year in the car, for work, for groceries, for fun. 999 of those hours were spent focused on the road. I hate talking on the phone while driving.

    Consider my annual total: about $25,000 + 1000 hours of my time. For the "privilege" to sit in Chicago traffic.

    I'm a consultant. I now use UberX every day. I also use public transportation when I'm not in a rush or when someone isn't paying me to swing by.

    I spent about $5000 a year on UberX. $100 a week. While I am being driven around, I can respond to emails, make phone calls. I bill for that time. When a customer wants me to visit them, I pass the UberX fee on to them plus 50%. No one scoffs at it. Some customers will realize the cost of me visiting them is more expensive than just consulting over the phone.

    I figure I'm $20,000 ahead in vehicle costs, plus I've literally gained another 600-700 hours of phone and email consulting time a year. Call it $40,000 ahead.

    I don't take cabs, because they don't like to come to where my HQ is (ghetto neighborhood). UberX comes 24/7, within minutes.

    My little sister had an emergency surgery a few months ago. I immediately hired an UberX driver, who took me from the office, to the hospital. He waited. We then took my sister to her apartment to get her cats and clothes, then he took us to the pharmacy. After, he drove us to our dad's house to drop her off, in the suburbs of Chicago. Then he drove me back to work. 3 hours, $90. I can't get a cab to wait even 10 minutes while I drop off a package at UPS. Forget about them taking credit cards.

    UberX charges my Paypal account and they're off. If they're busy, they charge a surcharge. I can pick it or take public transportation.

    I know why the Chicago Taxi authorities want Uber gone. But a guy like me is their best customer. Next year I'll budget $10,000 a year for UberX, and it will make my life so much more enjoyable and profitable.

    Driving yourself around is dead. It's inefficient. Ridesharing is "libertarian" because it is truly freeing.

    1. Re:From a non-driver perspective by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My SUV cost me around $800 a month in replacement costs. Another $200 in maintenance. I was burning through $12,000 a year in gas.

      Are you sure you calculated your gas costs right? That's a helluva lot of money to be spending on gas, even for an SUV. At $4/gal, that's 3000 gallons/yr. At 14 MPG, that's 42,000 miles/yr.

      The average vehicle is only driven 12,000 miles/yr, the average commute vehicle about 15,000 miles/yr. If your gas cost is accurate, your use case is just so far outside the norm that your anecdote is probably only applicable to about 0.01% of the population. (Your other vehicle costs seem absurdly high too, even if insurance is included in "replacement costs".)

      I spent an average of 1000 hours a year in the car, for work, for groceries, for fun.

      Consider my annual total: about $25,000 + 1000 hours of my time. For the "privilege" to sit in Chicago traffic.

      Which translates into an average speed of 42 MPH, which is unusually high. You must've lived ~70 miles away from your workplace and spent most of your driving on the freeway to (1) rack up that many miles, and (2) have such a high average MPH.

      I spent about $5000 a year on UberX. $100 a week
      [...]
      I figure I'm $20,000 ahead in vehicle costs

      UberX lists their Chicago rates as $2.40 + $0.24/min + $1/mile. There is absolutely no way you're replacing your 42,000 miles/yr commute with fewer than 5000 UberX miles. At 42,000 miles/yr @ 42 MPH and 500 commutes/yr (250 workdays, 2 commutes per day), completely replacing your SUV with UberX would cost you:

      ($2.40)*(500) + [ (1 mile / 42 MPH)*(60 min/hour)*($0.24/min) + $1/mile ] * (42000 miles) =
      $1200 + [ ($0.343/mile) + ($1/mile) ] * (42000 miles) =
      $1200 + $56,406 = $68,406/yr

      I mean think about it. It's effectively a taxi service. There's no way it can be cheaper than driving your own car (unless it's an UberX carpool) because that would mean the UberX driver would be losing money. Any reduction in your commute costs now that you got rid of the SUV is because you're taking public transportation. Any solo rides you're taking on UberX are costing you more than it took you to drive your SUV.

      The IRS places the standard deductible cost for mileage at $0.56/mile. That's probably a good average to use for a commute vehicle's cost per mile nationwide. UberX costs nearly 3x that.

    2. Re:From a non-driver perspective by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 2

      I stopped driving 2 years ago, voluntarily. My SUV cost me around $800 a month in replacement costs. Another $200 in maintenance. I was burning through $12,000 a year in gas.

      Can you clarify those numbers a little? What parts have to be replaced or maintained so often? And why have an gas guzzler of an SUV if it's going to cost $1000 a month for fuel?

      --
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    3. Re:From a non-driver perspective by godrik · · Score: 2

      I looked at these numbers as well, and they look like BS to me as well. But anyway comparing the cost of Uber to the cost of an SUV seems unreasonnable to begin with. If you are driving so much over the course of years AND your can deal with not having a car at all. Then why the hell are you driving an SUV to begin with?
      Switching to a compact would probably cut gas expenses by 2 and the car is likely to be much cheaper as well, which means less investment and replacement and lower insurance.

      The story from GP reads like "I used to buy $200 of grocery per day. But now I save a lot of money by eating at the restaurant for only $60 per day. On top of that, I do not prepare the food, so I can read the NYT in the mean time."

    4. Re:From a non-driver perspective by evilviper · · Score: 2

      At 14 MPG, that's 42,000 miles/yr.

      The average vehicle is only driven 12,000 miles/yr, the average commute vehicle about 15,000 miles/yr. If your gas cost is accurate, your use case is just so far outside the norm that your anecdote is probably only applicable to about 0.01% of the population.

      Nobody drives an "average" vehicle. Either you pay a ton of money (often over 1mil) for housing in high-demand areas and barely need to drive, or you drive yourself a hell of a long way from your nice cheap home with a big yard, to work and back again, every day.

      42,000 miles/year is just a medium commute here in California, and complaining about it will bring ridicule down on you, from those who do (or have) commute much further.

      There's no way it can be cheaper than driving your own car

      Sure it could... All those car payments, maintenance, license, insurance, parking, etc., can be effectively pooled by one driver, spreading the maintenance costs across dozens of people. In addition, the Uber driver could have a 50MPG Prius, instead of a 14MPG SUV, dropping the fuel costs by a factor of 3.5X, and pocketing some of the cash.

      GP is probably playing very fast and loose with the numbers, but there's definitely a savings to be had by pooling/sharing resources such as vehicles.

      --
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    5. Re:From a non-driver perspective by evilviper · · Score: 3, Informative

      So living 90 miles away from work is the norm in California?

      It is quite common, yes.

      Anything more than 20 miles from city center is considered hillbilly territory

      Nonsense. The most desirable areas shift every decade or so. And you clearly have no idea just how sprawling California cities are.

      Anywhere along the coast is high-rent. In SoCal, you could live in nice and expensive parts of San Diego, and commute to Burbank, without ever even driving through an area where condos cost less than half a mil.

      In NorCal, going between the coast and Sacramento is common. 'cisco to San Jose is about 60 miles of high-rent areas, and you can't get a cheap house anywhere along the route.

      --
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    6. Re:From a non-driver perspective by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      Yes it is, in fact. Americans think a hundred years is a long time, while Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way.

    7. Re:From a non-driver perspective by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

      If you're solo-driving an SUV around to commute you're doing it wrong. If you're sitting in that SUV in stalled commuter traffic in Chicago, you're doing it way wrong. There are many lower-cost personal vehicle choices. It doesn't even have to be something 'weird' like a Toyota 'Preach-at-us' to be a better alternative.

      So your cost figures are so screwed up right away up front that it's hard to want to dig further into anything else you wrote.

    8. Re:From a non-driver perspective by evilviper · · Score: 3, Insightful

      100 miles is a pretty long way to be commuting to work every workday.
      That's more than 2 hours per day commuting assuming it's mostly interstate at 80 mph.
      Why would anyone do that to themselves?

      Because working a second-job for that 2-hours every day, wouldn't ever hope to pay for the difference between a $100,000 house with a long commute, and a (smaller) $1mil house with only a short commute.

      --
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  5. Re:Not this again.. by TWX · · Score: 2

    Yeah, because once I'm mugged and all my personal electronics are stolen, I can give quite the negative review to that driver through the website...

    Or when I get home from being dead in the ditch, I can really lay into them!

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  6. Predictability?...Well... by bogaboga · · Score: 2

    That system may be a pain to deal with, but in its defense, it provided predictability and security.

    Well, I agree about that predictability in the fact that in New York, black patrons would hardly be able to [successfully] hail a taxi after 8 PM. I am sure our black friends are happy about the change in the taxi business that's well underway.

    1. Re:Predictability?...Well... by kervin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, I agree about that predictability in the fact that in New York, black patrons would hardly be able to [successfully] hail a taxi after 8 PM.

      That's definitely not true. It's more likely black patrons will not be able to hail a cab in any rush hour period. E.g. 5pm, 2am ( many clubs and bars close ). It's not that the drivers are afraid, it's greed more than anything else.

      The cab drivers know that statistically black patrons are more likely to take them to the outer reaches of the boroughs. The fair to these areas is ok, but coming back there is no fair. So it's worse than someone who stays in Manhattan and then the cab driver gets fairs every direction every time.

      But it has nothing to do with the time of day, it's really about how busy they would be. At 4AM in the morning, when everything is quiet cab drivers will tell you they are happy to pick up anybody.

  7. we're missing the METERS by jfruh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The meters on traditional cabs may sometimes be tinkered with, but that's illegal, and in the vast majority of cases they're accurate and legally binding. Whereas with the new wave of rideshare apps there's no indication of what charges you're reacking up until you arrive. You can get an estimate to start with on at least some of the apps but it's not binding, and especially when surge pricing is in effect you can end up with large and unexpected charges that are difficult to predict.

    I use Uber and Lyft a lot, and I'm the first to admit that traditional taxis brought this on themselves, by often refusing to take credit cards and by never adopting a convenient method of hailing a cab for the increasing pool of people who use smartphones. But traditional rules around taxis were put in place for a reason, and meters in particular were created and regulated to protect consumers against arbitrary price-gouging.

    1. Re:we're missing the METERS by misexistentialist · · Score: 2

      How does a meter provide an expected charge? I guess you can get out if it is getting too high, but an accurate estimate for the whole trip is what is missing. The "legally binding" meter binds you just as much, while I imagine with these services with flexible pricing you could dispute the charges to get your money back, though they'd ban you.

    2. Re:we're missing the METERS by Solandri · · Score: 2

      The meters on traditional cabs may sometimes be tinkered with, but that's illegal, and in the vast majority of cases they're accurate and legally binding. Whereas with the new wave of rideshare apps there's no indication of what charges you're reacking up until you arrive.

      There's another way to tinker with meters besides hacking them - drive a different route. My first taxi ride from Boston Logan to MIT took what seemed like an unusually winding route through downtown Boston. A year later when I got a car and began driving around the city myself, I realized I'd been taken for a ride, literally. I mentioned this to a fellow student at my lab, and he remarked that it had taken him 3 years to figure out what the actual cost of a cab from his apartment to the airport was, because every time he'd be taken on a different, circuitous route to rack up extra miles. It was 3 years until he actually got an honest driver who took him straight home.

      Modern navigation software means you can get an exact distance from start point to destination before you even step into the taxi. There's no need for a meter (other than to time the ride). A lot of airport taxis already do this for longer rides - they charge based on zones, with further zones costing more. No meter needed. The only case this doesn't handle is rerouting to avoid traffic. An alternative might be a meter which prints out your GPS route so you can see that you were taken almost straight to your destination, and not in circles.

  8. For posterity - by Burz · · Score: 2

    Here is a 2006 article about the IGT Taxibus concept. It definitely wasn't conceived in Northern California air, but in the UK (circa 2001 IIRC).

    The problem was they approached municipalities with the idea and no large cities climbed on board. So now the cities have to face the likes of Uber and Lyft who, I predict, will not collectively reach the scale needed to apreciably reduce traffic congestion (one of the aims of IGT). Combine that with no regulation and a consumer protection model that amounts to Yelp.com, and I'll guess that Uber and Lyft will in 7 years be less of a joke and more of a way to elict negative reactions from people (assuming you momentarily lack the gas to fart).

  9. Re:Don't worry, Uber et all will end up regulated. by tnk1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't think there is anything wrong with the idea of regulation.

    However, regulation can be turned into a false barrier to entry when the regulatory system becomes a system with its own constituency, such as the labor unions, medallion holders, and bureaucrats. In those cases, where regulation might simply be updated to take into account new technology or ideas, the regulation blocks consideration of new things, and the constituencies have no interest in making any changes because they like their safe and familiar modes of operation.

    Not to mention scenarios where members end up investing in regulatory artifacts like medallions, which have value due only to artificial scarcity and then something comes along and makes those less valuable. They're going to want to protect those investments, even if the underlying system they represent is outdated and less efficient.

    The real problem isn't regulation, it is the effect that regulation can have, if allowed to harden into a particular structure that does not respond to outside forces adequately.

  10. The real reason why Uber is going to take over by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was talking with a former cabdriver just the other day, and the major reason he left the field was because of the danger. In his urban taxi career he had eleven "runners", or people who dash without paying, but it was the one robbery that unnerved him to the extent he left the field. Although Phoenix is one of the most gun-friendly cities in the nation, management forbade him to carry, a rule typically enforced by insurance companies who care more about their liability exposure than employee safety.

    The great advantage of Uber is that because everyone has to sign up as a member of the system before getting rides, the company knows who the customers are, and who is riding with whom at a given time. The increased driver safety, not any abstract political philosophy, is why services like this will replace traditional cabs.

  11. over/under by minstrelmike · · Score: 2

    Over regulation is bad, just as bad as under-regulation.
    One problem is that complete anarchy means no protection for anybody which is one reason pure Libertarianism failed (buy insurance from Joe's Pizza Palace) and is why all those classic Western towns you see in John Wayne movies hired sheriffs and were trying to become more civilized.
    Over-regulation happens mostly because of regulatory "capture." After the initial public wave of disgust forces a new bureaucracy in place, it becomes beholden to the industry it regulates because no one else really cares to put in the work defining terms and setting up precise rules (precision is another problem in and of itself).

    It's a conundrum-type problem, trying to find the sweet spot. You basically need to decide if the over-burden of regulation is going to cost more than what you are preventing. And that's if you're a corporation. If you're a government trying to please the public, you have a mess of moralists who don't care about economics and demand 100% perfection which requires a lot of rules and almost always costs more than accepting 5% graft.

    In the taxi market, one trade-off is between having standard prices or having a boatload of vehicles charging different prices all the time. I remember reading about soda pop machines wired to change prices depending on the outside temperature. Seems like slashdotters hated that but I can't see why it's any different from Uber.

    If you want a steady price or a steady supply, you need different kinds of regulations than if you want perfect supply for every demand.

  12. Re:It's just not necessary by minstrelmike · · Score: 2

    We don't need the government to protect us from getting bad customer service during a car ride. We don't need the government to make sure drivers are "qualified" to give people car rides. It's just a car ride.

    1. How often do you pick up hitchhikers?
    2. Car-jacking took off last century only after anti-theft devices made it too hard to steal unattended vehicles. I'm thinking now it's pretty goddamn easy to steal a smartphone, then use that to rent a Hummer or Mercedes off Uber and now you have a nice car to drive around in all by yourself (along with the driver's smartphone and whatever cash s/he was carrying). New ways of business always provide new ways of crime. Human nature.

    Before you decide government is a complete waste of resources, perhaps you should live someplace without government such as Yemen or Somalia. It's probably as hard for us to put a value on the government and society we grew up in as it is for fish to understand the value of the water they cannot see.

  13. Medallions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The reason for taxi medallions is to prevent competition, end of story. $1M in NYC, $800K in Chicago, yet DC has none and are DC cab known for being horrible?

    Talking to a Chicago cab driver of 28 years, what happened was a Russian bought 80% of all cabs in the city. He talked to the mayor and a year later there was a medallion law in Chicago costing $800k to operate a new cab. Guess what? All existing cabs were grandfathered in and got their medallions free. So anyone who operated a cab on the day that went into effect got $800k for each one. They haven't sold any new ones since then, but now that Russian owns tens of millions in cab medallions, and I'd be willing to bet he donated heavily to help Rham get elected as mayor.

    Its a corrupt system, pure and simple. People telling you different are part of the corruption or ignorant.