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Aaron's Law Is Doomed and the CFAA Is Still Broken

I Ate A Candle (3762149) writes Aaron's Law, named after the late internet activist Aaron Swartz, was supposed to fix U.S. hacking laws, which many deem dated and overly harsh. But the bill looks certain to wither in Congress, thanks to corporate lobbying, disagreements in Washington between key lawmakers and a simple lack of interest amongst the general population for changes to the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. Representative Zoe Lofgren blamed inactivity from the House Judiciary Committee headed up by Representative Bob Goodlatte, which has chosen not to discuss or vote on Aaron's Law. There is still an appetite for CFAA reform, thanks to complaints from the security community that their research efforts have been deemed illegal acts, perversely making the internet a less secure place. But with the likes of Oracle trying to stop it and with Congress unwilling to act, change looks some way away.

134 comments

  1. Well by Njorthbiatr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What did you expect from an oligarchy?

    1. Re:Well by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What did you expect from an oligarchy?

      I think it's worse than that ... it's a nascent authoritarian state which is beholden to an oligarchy.

      Which means whatever the government doesn't control is in the hands of the corporations.

      So, if you're not being screwed in the name of secret national security by agencies which lie cheat and steal ... you're being screwed in the name of corporate profits. Or both.

      As a free society, America has pretty much almost ran it's course.

      Papers please, comrade, and don't forget to keep the economy going by buying stuff from one of our sponsors.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Low taxes and independence, the same as I expect from any governmental system.

    3. Re:Well by JWW · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep.

      I'm growing tired of counting all the things that supermajorities of the people want that the government will never ever allow us to have.

      There are so many things that could be reformed/improved/eliminated/added in the context of government that the PEOPLE truly want (and want through large majorities) that it boggles the mind.

      However, if any of these things have a negative impact on the power of our politicians, or the power of their lobbyists, or the power of their party leaders, or the power of their special interest groups, then screw us.

    4. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are so many things that could be reformed/improved/eliminated/added in the context of government that the PEOPLE truly want (and want through large majorities) that it boggles the mind.

      There is no super majority that wants Aaron's law passed.

    5. Re:Well by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      I think the majority who know of it want it passed - it's just not an issue that many people have heard of.

    6. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well no, not many people off campus are going to give a fuck about some dumbass who offed himself because he got busted.

      Martyrs are not virtuous, they're pathetic.

    7. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think a very insignificant very vocal minority who know of it want it passed - it's just not an issue that many people care about.

      Fixed that for you.

    8. Re:Well by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I'm growing tired of counting all the things that supermajorities of the people want that the government will never ever allow us to have.

      It doesn't matter what you want. It only matters what you vote for. Bob Goodlatte represents Virginia's 6th congressional district, which includes Roanoke, Lynchburg, Harrisonburg and Staunton. If you live in that area, and this issue is important to you, then you should vote for someone else on November 4th. Zoe Lofgren represents San Jose, California, and deserves support on this issue.

    9. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      inb4 some idiot says "tyranny of the majority" as if we aren't living in a tyranny of the minority.

    10. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never noticed it before or as a possibility but laws were put in like this which only seem to aide the NSA and other government authority. I say that because with the NSA and other agencies means to infect then collect data, or more to the point of cyber warfare in which countries more the likely led by the US are creating worms like Stuxnet, and thus they don't want the security community to find it, or even a hacker that created one and the power-that-be want to own that person to work for them, and keep Stuxnet like worms from becoming public knowledge.

      I find it odd corporations also want to make sure the defunct CFAA stay intact and not a law that has commonsense, I'm sure their argument is not allowing security researchers or hackers from exposing the swiss cheese holes in their software/hardware. And not because they may be putting deliberate holes in their software/hardware.

    11. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We’ve tried to fund challengers against Goodlatte for years. He’s firmly entrenched and has a huge war chest. He appeals to the highly religious conservative base in this region as well as many of the larger business interests, so things like Aaron’s Law never even make it on the radar around these parts. The few times I’ve seen him in public forums, he’s derisive and arrogant to his constituents that express more liberal views on much of anything.

    12. Re:Well by mellon · · Score: 1

      Funding isn't going to do it. Grass roots organizing is the only way around a political machine like that. That means tables at shopping centers, leafletting, speaking engagements at local organizations, etc. It can be done, but it's a lot of work.

    13. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, using the word "funding" wasn't meant to suggest larger efforts like you describe weren't in place... they have been. Thus far, though, it has been hard to make a dent in the Goodlatte machine for numerous reasons.

  2. Face it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The fascists are never going to give up power now that they have it.

    And, at this point, it is fairly obvious that both parties are more than willing to vote in favor of fascism.

    This is all about government control and secrecy, and if anybody is going to hack into anything with permission it's the NSA et al.

    Pathetic, in my lifetime, America has become a joke -- face it, you suck, your government sucks, and you've turned your backs on rights and freedoms.

    America deserves what it gets at this point, and deserves a massive amount of contempt and distrust from the rest of the world.

    You have become the fucking problem.

    1. Re:Face it ... by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      The fascists are never going to give up power now that they have it.

      And, at this point, it is fairly obvious that both parties are more than willing to vote in favor of fascism.

      This is all about government control and secrecy, and if anybody is going to hack into anything with permission it's the NSA et al.

      Pathetic, in my lifetime, America has become a joke -- face it, you suck, your government sucks, and you've turned your backs on rights and freedoms.

      America deserves what it gets at this point, and deserves a massive amount of contempt and distrust from the rest of the world.

      You have become the fucking problem.

      Why is this modded "flamebait"? It is the truth.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    2. Re:Face it ... by just_another_sean · · Score: 1

      And what, as American Citizens, would you have us do? Rise up in arms? Overthrow our government? I participate in the civil process, I encourage others to do so, I write my politicians when I'm concerned about specific issues. What else is there?

      I agree the country is going to hell in a hand basket but fuck that "you get what you deserve" bullshit. Not everyone in this country lives on the fringe of political opinion; the majority do not. Yes, fuck our government for ignoring the will of the people but fuck you for your lack of compassion towards those people. Yes, some of them sit back and enjoy it or take it depending on their status but, again, most of them don't and are as appalled as you are at the state of this country.

      And where are you from AC that's so much better? How did your country's people prevent this from happening? Any useful suggestions or did you just come to hate?

      Me, I'll continue to participate in the political process, teach my children to do the same, encourage others to do so (whether I agree with them or not) and hope that eventually the process wins and the fuckers that are taking us down the tubes are finally voted out of office for good.

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    3. Re:Face it ... by mellon · · Score: 0

      No, it's flamebait. If you care about this, get involved in politics. If you don't care enough to get involved, go back to your pizza and your TV.

    4. Re:Face it ... by mellon · · Score: 2

      Vote. In. The. Primary. If you are in a gerrymandered district, register for the party that owns the district. Participate in the campaign if you have time. Run for office if you have more time. Even if you don't win, if you get attention you can move the Overton window in your direction.

    5. Re:Face it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I would, but since I'm not rich, I can't afford to.

    6. Re:Face it ... by usuallylost · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That is good advice. A huge number of Americans do not understand that we have a two election system. The primaries for the various parties and then the general election. The party's policy positions are frequently fought out in the primary process. Since such a small percentage of the population participates in those the will of the party elite tends to hold sway. If you want to change what happens a primary challenge is a much smaller undertaking and has the potential for greater impact than any other method of directly challenging the current system. Absent a primary upset odds are that the person on the ballot for both parties is an entrenched establishment player. Mostly because they are the only ones who come out for primaries.

      The Virginia seventh district is a prime example of how a comparatively small and not well funded group of upset voters can change the entire dynamic of a race. An unknown comparative outsider came into the race and spent ~$250,000, which is chump change in congressional elections, and took down Eric Cantor. Because the voter pools are so much smaller it is much easier for a group to impact policy at that level. In the general election you frequently add a zero to the number of voters involved and to the amount of money you have to spend to get your message out. The key is upset local people changed the power structure in the house by particpating in the primary.

    7. Re:Face it ... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      I agree the country is going to hell in a hand basket

      Note that this has been a common belief for the last 50 years or so.

      Arguably, it's been a common belief for the last century....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    8. Re:Face it ... by Frobnicator · · Score: 2

      And what, as American Citizens, would you have us do? Rise up in arms? Overthrow our government?

      First, contact elected officials, both your own and those in a position over the bill's progress. I wrote to six of them today when I read the story. I also contacted several of the committee members including Bob Goodlatte who is the committee chairman. Yes, one person is unlikely to get much change, but enough people contacting his office can induce change.

      Second, encourage those around you contact their representitives, and encourage them to directly contact those in the committee who can get things changed. Just like I did up there in that first paragraph. Post the links on facebook and other social media (also already done this today). Encourage people to send a message, ANY MESSAGE, that references the bill to their legislator's office.

      One or two messages won't do it. When it gets to be enough messages that the staffers notice, or even better enough that it overwhelms their office staff.

      What would I have you do? Make a noise. Any noise you can. This reply is the first one that would be considered "preaching to the crowd", but is about my 15th communication about it today. That is what you can do. Make it clear to the legislators that it is important to you, raise the layperson's awareness of the issue, and help encourage others to contact the right offices. Even if it is nothing more than writing your own messages and then calling on the Internet Trolls that you know to send them messages, that is still something. Do what you can to get your voice heard, since it needs to be heard over the corporate money.

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    9. Re:Face it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're as naive as you probably think the OP is. The general public in the US, UK, Australia, you name it, don't care about digital rights or surveillance or secrecy. Even people who care about transparency can't keep up with everything that's going on. Citizens can't beat interest groups that work day and night to get their legislation passed and maximize profits. Getting into the U.S. Congress, as if that'd solve the problem, requires being a sellout.

      OP doesn't offer a solution, and neither do you.

    10. Re:Face it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boo hoo hoo! I don't give a shit. Your little tin messiah is dead by his own hand and your collective efforts to legalize his crimes have failed. Maybe you ought to kill yourself and join your little hero rather annoying the rest of us with your sullen whining. Be like Aaron.

    11. Re:Face it ... by mellon · · Score: 1

      No, I don't mean buy politics. I mean get involved.. The whole point of votes is that everybody gets the same number. When change occurs in government, it occurs because people get involved.

    12. Re:Face it ... by mellon · · Score: 1

      I didn't claim to offer a solution. I was just commenting on the parent, who claimed that it was wrong to mod its parent flamebait. I agree with the moderators. Unfortunately new moderators have come along and modded the article up. We don't need more hope-killing hysteria. Telling people not to hope, that we're already doomed and defeated, is the surest way to keep them down. It's a fairly safe assumption that when someone does that, they are doing it precisely for that reason: they don't want you to get involved.

  3. Also in the news... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    More and more IT security companies and conferences are moving abroad to evade insane politicians.

    Remember when Black Hat Las Vegas was the ITSEC Mecca? People started praying in a different direction a while ago.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  4. How to contact Bob by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://goodlatte.house.gov/contacts/new

    Obviously your message will carry more weight if you actually live in the 6th District of Virginia, or you're a contributor to Bob's campaign, or if you convincingly argue that passing Aaron's law will somehow be good for Israel.

    1. Re:How to contact Bob by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently you have to enter in a zip code from his area, so I added my real state to the city field and copied and pasted the zip code of his office in the state.

  5. Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by guises · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Apparently Oracle has sunk $1.36 mil into lobbying against this because they are using the CFAA to "protect trade secrets." Presumably they're holding the threat of ridiculous prison sentences over their employees' heads to keep them from leaking any of Oracle's precious bodily fluids, but someone must have some idea of what it is that Oracle is trying to hide, even if you all don't know the particulars. Spill.

    Is it some special sauce for tricking state governments into contracting with Oracle when they could be working with a different, competent company? Or into buying ten times as many licenses as they actually need? Doubtless there's some reason why Oracle is as rich as it is...

    1. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know what, this is precisely what happens when you decide corporations are people, and that money equals speech ... your democratic process becomes subverted by the will of corporations and ceases to be about representing the people.

      It's pretty much all downhill from here.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is nothing in the constitution that says the first amendment only applies to people.

    3. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Apparently Oracle has sunk $1.36 mil into lobbying against this because they are using the CFAA to "protect trade secrets."

      Sounds like an insane argument. Defending a law because you're using it for something it wasn't intended to be used for.

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    4. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by jfdavis668 · · Score: 2

      Well, maybe if people stopped deciding who to vote for based on television commercials and put some actual thought into it we would get a more responsible government.

    5. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Sounds like an insane argument. Defending a law because you're using it for something it wasn't intended to be used for.

      In fairness, the government does it all the time ... so it's no more screwed up when corporations do it.

      News flash, badly written laws get misused.

      The problem comes when the people passing laws have no idea of what they say, the laws are written by corporate lobbyists, and the law makers ignore people pointing out the flaws in the law before it's passed.

      When your elected representatives owe more to their corporate sponsors/donors than they do the people who elected them, this is what you get.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    6. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Very few people believe in that thing anymore.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    7. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      So when cops shoot dogs for barking they're violating the canine's right to free speech?

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    8. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So when cops shoot dogs for barking they're violating the canine's right to free speech?

      No

      "Congress shall make no law..."

      A Cop shooting a dog isn't congress making a law.

    9. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by gstoddart · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      A Cop shooting a dog isn't congress making a law.

      So, we can shoot Oracle then?

      Thanks for clarifying that.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    10. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's actually neither of those things. It's that the feds have the power to protect an individual businesse's interests in the first place. How the system is subverted from to do so is trivial.

    11. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by PPH · · Score: 1

      corporations are people, and that money equals speech

      Its worse than that. You and I can speak. But corporations can issue the equivalent of royal* edicts. If we have a disagreement, we have to take it up in court as a civil matter. A corporation can create law and define some activity as illegal, making it a criminal offense. And they can expect the administration and courts to do their bidding based on that.

      Our Constitution places limits on what Congress, the courts, the Administration and the people can and cannot do. So how is it that they were empowered to create entities with no such limitations?

      *In old Europe, the position of royalty was considered to be granted as an act of God. So if Congress empowers corporate entities with such powers, they are clearly in violation of the First Amendment. Corporate charters aren't creating people, they are crowning kings (a few other Constitutional prohibitions going down the toilet right there).

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    12. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Cop shooting a dog isn't congress making a law.

      So, we can shoot Oracle then?

      No you can't. Because the cop shooting a dog has nothing to do with free speech. It would fall under those do not murder laws.

    13. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have to be someone negatively impacted, to have standing to complain about government exceeding their authority.

      Suppose we had "The government shall have no authority whatesoever over warp drives, and the right to manufacture and sell warp drives shall not be infringed" in the Constitution. Then suppose Congress passed a law "No person shall manufacture or sell warp drives" in blatant defiance of their constitutional authority. Tell me: who could take that to court and have it struck down? There's no such thing as warp drives. You don't make them, or even know how to make them, or even have reason to suspect that you might be able to make them. You have never tried to buy one and then had Congress' stupid law interfere with your attempt. You've never been arrested for selling one, or aiding or abetting someone who was trying to sell one. The court would say you have no standing to sue. SCOTUS wouldn't merely silently refuse to hear your case: they would actually give you that reason for not hearing your case.

      So, while Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, they could actually abridge my dog's speech and get away with it, since there'd be no one to stop them. It's be a victimless crime, and so even if it's illegal for the government to do it, we have not seized the power or asserted any means to enforce such limits.

      Corporations aren't dogs, though. They're able to show standing. And that is really why they're able to assert rights. (It's not why they should necessarily have all these rights, but this is how they get the rights.) If you could deny standing to corporations (probably a bad idea, but...), then the First Amendment really wouldn't effectively cover them. Congress would be "prohibited" from infringing their rights, but it would be an empty, unenforcible prohibition. It's sort of like how people are "secure" against illegal search, but as long as the illegal search can be done sufficiently secretly enough, people can't prove they're victims and therefore the limits aren't enforced.

    14. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Normally when that happens to people, the cops get charged with "18 U.S. Code S. 241 - Conspiracy against rights." However, that law does appear to only apply to "persons," not dogs or corporations.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    15. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by idontgno · · Score: 2

      News flash, badly written laws get misused.

      Every tool is a weapon in the hands of someone with violent intent.

      Business is a battlefield. Weapons are damn useful in a battlefield.

      Business is ultimately responsible for the weaponization of the law. How could anyone argue that the CFAA is intended for anything else? If no one is digging holes, the only use left for a shovel is bashing your adversaries. The only question left, and it's purely an academic one, is whether this (mis-)use of the CFAA is an accident arising after its inception, or its real but unpublicized raison d'être.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    16. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      No you can't. Because the cop shooting a dog has nothing to do with free speech.

      Nor does shooting Oracle.

      It would fall under those do not murder laws.

      What about those Texas "he needed killin' " laws?

      Could we shoot Oracle in Texas and say it was a public service?

      And, a note for the humor impaired, I'm not actually advocating anybody getting shot here, it's a fscking joke.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    17. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was nothing against slavery at first either.

      We need a new Amendment.

    18. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      No you can't. Because the cop shooting a dog has nothing to do with free speech.

      Nor does shooting Oracle.

      It would fall under those do not murder laws.

      What about those Texas "he needed killin' " laws?

      Could we shoot Oracle in Texas and say it was a public service?

      And, a note for the humor impaired, I'm not actually advocating anybody getting shot here, it's a fscking joke.

      Wait! What?! (unloads shotgun) Dammit. I was on the way to the DMV. Good thing I hit Refresh on my way out the door.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    19. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      I have standing against all laws I am subject to. Anything less is not a functioning justice system. One shouldnt have to prove personal suffering to change the law.

      --
      Good-bye
    20. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1 US Code Section 1:
      "In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, unless the context indicates otherwise...the words “person” and “whoever” include corporations, companies, associations, firms, partnerships, societies, and joint stock companies, as well as individuals;"

      So how exactly does the section you quoted apply to "persons" but not corporations?

    21. Re:Oracle trying to protect trade secrets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In old Europe, the position of royalty was considered to be granted as an act of God. So if Congress empowers corporate entities with such powers, they are clearly in violation of the First Amendment.

      That would be a valid point if modern America was old Europe.

      Really, there are enough perfectly legitimate problems with law and the power of corporations in the modern age. Don't make things harder by holding up such weak-tea claims.

  6. CFAA & Aaronsw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    CFAA may be broken but what Aaron did was still wrong and I don't think the law should be changed to make his behavior legal, which is the impression I get when the bill is named after him. I'm sure many others feel the same way. Sure, Swartz will be missed and many people are blaming themselves for not recognizing the signs of mental illness and helping him before he killed himself. However, I'd do the same thing MIT did if I discovered some creep walking in off the street and causing all the researchers to lose access to a major database, kept evading blocks over a period of months, and broke into a wiring closet to hook up his own equipment. Likewise, if some creep was trying to "keepgrabbing" my entire database, creating more traffic than all of my other customers combined, and jeopardizing my relationship with one of my biggest customers, you bet your ass I'd call the cops. Somehow, however, Swartz apologists keep trying to hitch this wagon up to the "I didn't read a web sites ToS and now I have a felony conviction" cause.

    1. Re:CFAA & Aaronsw by king+neckbeard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think that people are wanting his actions to be totally legal so much as just having reasonable punishment. I think naming it Aaron's law is to demonstrate that it is a means of preventing the abuse of the CFAA in the way it was used against Aaron.

      --
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    2. Re:CFAA & Aaronsw by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      I don't think that people are wanting his actions to be totally legal so much as just having reasonable punishment.

      Six months sounds more than reasonable - however Swartz and his lawyers decided that was unreasonable and decided to enage in a high stakes game of chicken with Swartz's freedom on the line because Swartz wanted to be The Hero and Fight Back Against The Man. He and lawyers forgot two important things however, first - don't bet what you can't afford to lose, second - don't bluff unless you're prepared to be called.

    3. Re:CFAA & Aaronsw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      CFAA may be broken but what Aaron did was still wrong and I don't think the law should be changed to make his behavior legal, which is the impression I get when the bill is named after him.

      As much as I agree fundamentally with the point that what Aaron did was wrong, the simple truth is that what JSTOR does is also wrong. The whole point of the creation of JSTOR was to have a collaborative database of journals between universities to collective pool the costs of archiving, access, etc. Yet no part of it was intended to anyway further restrict public access to the extant or future journals. But as a consequence of JSTOR apparently wanting to guarantee its position as an independent non-profit, its needlessly restricted access to just universities, libraries, etc who pay a fee instead of some model of public contribution that allows public access. The correct solution, of course, would be to recreate JSTOR and try to migrate people over and/or to campaign for JSTOR to change. In the end, at best Aaron was engaging in a sort of civil disobedience against how JSTOR was and is structured. The problem, though, was the 50 year prison sentence and the clear evidence that he was unlikely to much, if any, pardon. This very story just proves the point.

      Sure, Swartz will be missed and many people are blaming themselves for not recognizing the signs of mental illness and helping him before he killed himself.

      Can you really call it "mental illness"? The US has striven to make the US Federal Prison system as horrible as possible to ensure that people desperately do not want to be placed there. Further, there has been a consistent trend that "white collar" crimes should be effectively nullified in fact (if not in statute) because there's a belief that CEOs, bankers, etc shouldn't have to suffer under those conditions. When you consider that at 26 a 50 year prison sentence could translate into life imprisonment, who in their right mind would choose that? That's the real irony of the death penalty, btw. A relatively quick death would likely be preferable to many murderers over a life in an 8'x8'x8' cell.

      However, I'd do the same thing MIT did if I discovered some creep walking in off the street...

      "At the time, Swartz was a research fellow at Harvard University, which provided him with a JSTOR account."

      and causing all the researchers to lose access to a major database, kept evading blocks over a period of months,

      And these are very legitimate complaints that would be a basis for punishment under CFAA, I think.

      and broke into a wiring closet to hook up his own equipment.

      "The authorities said Swartz downloaded the documents through a laptop connected to a networking switch in a controlled-access wiring closet at MIT. The door to the closet was kept unlocked, according to press reports." It's enough to say "walked into a wiring closet" and know that trespassing was involved without including a falsehood.

      Likewise, if some creep was trying to "keepgrabbing" my entire database, creating more traffic than all of my other customers combined, and jeopardizing my relationship with one of my biggest customers, you bet your ass I'd call the cops.

      Granted. And if they wanted to throw the creep in prison for 50 years, would you condemn the prosecutors or be generally oblivious to your involvement?,/p>

      Somehow, however, Swartz apologists keep trying to hitch this wagon up to the "I didn't read a web sites ToS and now I have a felony conviction" cause.

      Quite possibly because if zealous prosecutors were wanting to put Swartz in prison for 50 years, then violating a web site ToS with a wget crawl might get you 10 years. And that's just absurd.

    4. Re:CFAA & Aaronsw by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      For the actions committed, I would see reasonable as a fine not exceeding $1000 and/or 40 hours or less of community service.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    5. Re:CFAA & Aaronsw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem, though, was the 50 year prison sentence and the clear evidence that he was unlikely to much, if any, pardon.

      You know damned well that with the sentencing guidelines and Swartz's clean record he was facing a couple of years at theworst had he gone to trial and lost. His lawyers had reportedly negotiated plea deals ranging from 3-6 months. Swartz wouldn't accept the deals because a felony conviction would mean no more cushy ivy league fellowships.

      Can you really call it "mental illness"?

      Yes, people who kill themselves instead of go to prison for a few months have serious mental problems. Every year, tens of thousands of people serve their time in the federal Justice system and they don't kill themselves because they aren't sick. Your implication that If you think the US federal prison is as horrible as possible, go on youtube and watch some videos about places like Bang Kwang and realize you have no idea what you're talking about and also have no creativity.

      "At the time, Swartz was a research fellow at Harvard University, which provided him with a JSTOR account."

      Ask yourself why Swartz didn't run his keepgrabbing script at Harvard. hint: its the same reason he went to MIT, bought a clean laptop, used fake names, covered his face with his bike helmet, etc... Also, just because you have authorization and credentials to use a system doesn't mean you can use other credentials to abuse that system.

      "The authorities said Swartz downloaded the documents through a laptop connected to a networking switch in a controlled-access wiring closet at MIT. The door to the closet was kept unlocked, according to press reports." It's enough to say "walked into a wiring closet" and know that trespassing was involved without including a falsehood.

      Massachusets breaking and entering law only requires force to be involved. Opening a door you know you're not authorized and is not open to the general public is breaking and entering. You can see on the security camera images entered into evidence that he broke into that closet, he most certainly did not just walk in as you suggest

    6. Re: CFAA & Aaronsw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you, seriously. Swartz did not turn it into a highspeed game of chicken, prosecutors did with their excessive sentencing for fun and profit. Fuck you and everyone who thinks that it is okay to extort away right to a fair trial.

    7. Re:CFAA & Aaronsw by DerekLyons · · Score: 0

      In other words, essentially no punishment at all. That's not reasonable in any sense of the words.

    8. Re:CFAA & Aaronsw by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      CFAA may be broken but what Aaron did was still wrong

      What Aaron did was not wrong (in a moral sense). What Aaron might have done could have been wrong, but no one knows what his intent was in downloading all those papers. Was he going to publish them all? Was he going to just run some analysis on them?

      What is clearly wrong is the level of punishment that he could have been subject to for doing something that had hurt no one and caused no significant losses to anyone.

      You are condemning him based on assumptions about his future actions.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    9. Re:CFAA & Aaronsw by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      My terms are somewhere along the lines of a serious traffic ticket or a bout of drunken stupidity. I would hold his actions to be about there on the scale of severity, doubly so because it is very much in line with the kind of mischief that MIT's hacker culture has.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    10. Re:CFAA & Aaronsw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a harsher sentence (in relative terms) than what the banks got for laundering money for drug cartels and nations on the banned list.

    11. Re:CFAA & Aaronsw by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      What Aaron did was to go to a university he was unaffiliated with, and use covert means to do a denial of service attack on a service that served that university. That service cut that university off so they could continue serving their other clients, including the university Aaron was affiliated with. Without getting into the reasons behind the DoS, he did hurt people and caused significant loss of service. The covert means suggest that he knew he shouldn't be doing what he was doing. Had he downloaded articles at a reasonable rate from his own university, you'd have a point.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    12. Re:CFAA & Aaronsw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Inflammatory language is inflammatory.

       

      What Aaron did was to go to a university he was unaffiliated with

      .... but which freely provided access to the JSTOR achives to the public. In addition, Swartz was authorized to access JSTOR because of his position at Harvard.

      Without getting into the reasons behind the DoS,

      There you go with the inflammatory language again. DoS usually implies some kind of attack, some deliberate attempt to block access for others. Yes, JSTOR did express concern about the amount of their bandwidth he was consuming, but any DoS was a side-effect.

  7. Will never ever pass by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When your lawmakers are low IQ low education level types that put more weight in the opinions of the lobbyists that stuff their pockets full of money... You will NEVER get fair and balanced laws.

    DMCA and PATRIOT are two prime examples of how the people on capitol hill work. most of those idiots do not even READ the laws they are voting on.

    The proper answer still remains, if you want to be a white hat, you MUST remain anonymous when you release any information. DO NOT ever let someone know who you are because good deed will be punished harshly by the scared and uneducated lawmakers.

    And the laws are only going toget worse as big business buy even more legislation to shore up out of date business practices.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  8. I love the blame game! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You can't blame the Republicans for the Senate Committee on the Judiciary, chaired by Sen. Leahy (D-VT). Its a senate bill too.

  9. Abstract laws that already exist. by jellomizer · · Score: 2

    Lets say someone had little security, akin to not locking the door, and someone gets into the system and seals data. That is the same as if someone just walked in and made photocopies of all the data and left the building.

    If they needed to break in, where the computers are in a more compromised state then it is breaking and entering.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  10. I don't expect anything from Congress ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... and Oracle was afraid they would do something. They wasted their money.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  11. Re:All I can say to that is... by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · · Score: 1
  12. He didn't hack by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Aaron Scwartz deliberately installed his own equipment, deliberately hidden under a cardboard box, in a place he had no right to be in.

    The fact he had a JSTOR account is irrelevant. He put his equipment on someone else's network in an attempt to bypass the normal JSTOR requirements.

    Stop making him out to be a hero. If you think what he did was fine, I'll be sure to do the same thing to the company you work for.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:He didn't hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Fine, no. But worth 30 years in prison when even all the wronged parties did not want to continue the prosecution. FUCK NO.

    2. Re:He didn't hack by meta-monkey · · Score: 2, Informative

      But he had every right to attach his computer to that network. MIT has (or had?) a free and open network. It was open to everyone, not just students, faculty and guests. So there was no problem with him connecting to their network, or stashing his computer there.

      JSTOR's contract with MIT allowed access to their papers to anyone on MIT's network. Not limited to students and faculty. Just anyone coming from their network. So there was nothing illegal about him downloading papers from JSTOR.

      However, JSTOR's terms of service limited the number of papers one could download in a given period of time. I think it was something like 25 a day. Aaron, however, wrote a script that would download all 4 million in rapid succession.

      The only thing "wrong" that he did was violate JSTOR's terms of service. Yes, if everyone did that the system would collapse. What he did amounts to bad manners. For that he deserves to be threatened with up to 50 years in jail? That's the kind of abuse Aaron's Law is intended to stop.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    3. Re:He didn't hack by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fine, no. But worth 30 years in prison when even all the wronged parties did not want to continue the prosecution. FUCK NO.

      Lets be completely honest about this.

      He was neither convected nor sentenced. The claim that he faced 35 years jail time is highly disingenuous since he had been offered a plea bargain that carried only 6 months in a low security prison, but he turned it down.

      The story after his suicide was one disingenuous load of crap after another. If the guy killed himself because of the jail time he faced, then even 6 months was too much for him.

      I dont see how 6 months is out of line for the crimes that he admitted to committing.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    4. Re:He didn't hack by PPH · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I dont see how 6 months is out of line for the crimes that he admitted to committing.

      What crimes? He violated the system's terms of service. Purely a civil matter.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re:He didn't hack by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      But he had every right to attach his computer to that network. MIT has (or had?) a free and open network.

      No he, nor anyone, does not. This was a specific network closet which he entered at night, in dark clothes and then attempted to hide the laptop under a box. That is not something anyone who has rights to a network would do. Ever.

      Aaron, however, wrote a script that would download all 4 million in rapid succession.

      So then you're admitting he deliberately violated the terms of agreement he signed.

      The only thing "wrong" that he did was violate JSTOR's terms of service. Yes, if everyone did that the system would collapse. What he did amounts to bad manners.

      Putting quotes around the word wrong doesn't make the word somehow less important. He was wrong, period, in what he did. The reason for the TOS is exactly what you said, the system would collapse. In fact, that is exactly what JSTOR was seeing. In his attempt to "free information" he was destroying the very thing he was using.

      As someone further up said, those high number of years was bogus. It would never have happened. But then this whole thing would be moot if Aaron didn't break the law, now wouldn't it? Or are we once again to completely ignore one's personal responsibility in all this?

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    6. Re:He didn't hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a very bold comment. His crime was explicitly stated (illegally installing networking equipment to steal data) and you pretend like it wasn't even mentioned. I don't even think Bill Clinton would be brazen enough to copy you.

    7. Re:He didn't hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, so could you be more specific about how he connected his equipment to the MIT network? I'm guessing not because if you did, it would undermine your entire argument.

    8. Re:He didn't hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.wired.com/2013/12/swartz-video/

    9. Re:He didn't hack by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      You can't steal what you already have a right to, genius. He had a legitimate right to access that data.

      Now, if you want to charge him with trespassing, that is another matter. That's not what they were charging him with.

      Oh, and you're an idiot. Thought you should know.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    10. Re:He didn't hack by cbhacking · · Score: 0

      He didn't sign a thing, retard. There's nowhere on a website's TOS to sign, nor is there anywhere to dispute or modify a clause, nor is there any prevention against one party (specifically, the one whose agreement with the terms is not required) later modifying the terms. It's not a contract. It's not even a half-decent mockup of one.

      Of course, even if it were a contract, civil contract violations are a matter for lawsuits not criminal charges. So he *DID NOT* break the law. A website's TOS is not law, should never be treated as law, and the potentially horrific consequences of allowing a website's TOS to be enforced by the criminal "justice" system should be obvious to anybody whose IQ exceeds that of a baboon.

      Damn, the stupid is out in force today...

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    11. Re:He didn't hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't steal what you already have a right to, genius. He had a legitimate right to access that data.

      No he doesn't. He has no right to that what so ever. It has a privilege to access that data. MIT and JSTOR, on the other hand, have the right to revolve that privilege.

    12. Re: He didn't hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Six months is unreasonable especially when it comes with the effective loss of citizenship of a felony, Fuck you for thinking that is okay.

    13. Re:He didn't hack by zephvark · · Score: 1

      he had been offered a plea bargain that carried only 6 months in a low security prison, but he turned it down.

      I dont see how 6 months is out of line for the crimes that he admitted to committing.

      Not crimes, civil charges that were entirely disputable. Considering that he was a fairly attractive young gay man, he might also have had significant qualms about the old and generally inaccurate meme of prison rape.

    14. Re:He didn't hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he didn't break the law then he should have gone to trial.

      The fact that he chose suicide seems to be pretty clear evidence that he thought a jury would be convinced he had broken the law.

    15. Re:He didn't hack by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      Not crimes, civil charges that were entirely disputable.

      His 2 counts of wire fraud were not 'civil charges' -- nor were his 11 criminal violations of the computer fraud and abuse act.

      How exactly do you think? Is it that if you know that you dont know anything about a subject that you will act like an expert anyways because you really feel that you are THAT fucking special as to not actually need to know anything at. fucking. all?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    16. Re:He didn't hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok. Let me stick a computer in your closet after you blocked me multiple times for DDOSing your wifi network. I'm sure you'll just consider it a civil matter.

    17. Re:He didn't hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be stupid. The terms which must be agreed to access MIT's wireless network (which Aaron did), are short and simple: https://nic.mit.edu/cgi-bin/netreg?class=visitor. The terms aren't negotiable: it's a take-it-or-leave-it (or go back to your office at Harvard) deal.

      Aaron was banned from the network multiple times. There's no question his use was unauthorized. Unauthorized use of a computer network is a criminal act.

    18. Re:He didn't hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      didn't he have a Girlfriend?

    19. Re:He didn't hack by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      If you're actually DDOSing my network - as opposed to, say, just using a lot of it for its intended purpose of accessing data - I might press charges. Intent matters. Slashdot regularly causes events that *look* a lot like a DDOS, but that doesn't mean slashdotting a site is a criminal activity.

      If I am not authorized to physically access your closet and I do so anyhow, press charges against me - for TRESSPASSING, you moronic lump of ostensibly-sapient matter. Not for "hacking".

      See the last line of my previous comment.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    20. Re:He didn't hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Swartz knew what he was doing was not authorized, that's why he didn't use his own credentials but went to MIT with a laptop he bought just for that purpose and used MIT's credentials. That's also why he used fake names and hid his face with his bike helmet. It takes a special kind of stupid to think that just because you have an account on a system then you can do whatever you want on that system using an account belonging to someone else.

    21. Re:He didn't hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you have any fucking idea of the mental pressure these ruthless profit-hungry sharks are ready to put on their opponents to make them fold?

    22. Re:He didn't hack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His 2 counts of wire fraud were not 'civil charges' -- nor were his 11 criminal violations of the computer fraud and abuse act.

      He violated no laws, whether criminal or civil, that are consistent with the Bill of Rights, just as Rosa Parks violated no laws consistent with the Bill of Rights. The USA has massive numbers of laws on the books that fail the test of being consistent with, for example, the 9th Amendment right to ethical practice of law.

      The prosecutors, on the other hand, massively violated the Bill of Rights, their oaths to uphold it, and the principles of ethical practice of law.

      This kind of thing has been routine in the US legal system for a LONG time. Just as the people who illegally and criminally arrested and prosecuted Rosa Parks (choosing to enforce illegal laws, as if the lessons of Nuremberg were too difficult for them to understand) were never penalized for their actions, the people who illegally and criminally arrested and prosecuted Aaron (and caused his death, an alleged suicide) will never be penalized.

      There is a Latin phrase that cuts to the essence of the problem here: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? For too many years, legal professionals have shielded both their profession and the legal system from the rigorous application of the 9th Amendment right to ethical practice of law, which inherently blocks excessive penalties and overly complex laws, as well as laws that block reasonable conduct. It's not a conspiracy, simply unethical and amoral individuals recognizing common interests.

      Aaron's actions are appropriately viewed as striking a blow for fundamental freedoms that the government is attempting, via illegal laws, to take away.

  13. Larger request by JimSadler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apparently the young man committed suicide due to the threat of severe charges and punishments. The real challenge is the way the legal system works. The common tactic is to charge a defendant with a stack of really off the wall charges and force a plea bargain for much more accurate charges. A person who really would face a year or two in prison is faced with a prosecutor threatening 60 years or more. Many personalities will fold and make a deal. Addicts are particularly vulnerable as they have urgent desires to get out and get loaded as soon as possible. There is also a public display element in that convictions and sentences make great newspaper fodder but inmates appeal and bargains are struck to avoid a retrial in many cases. Think about it. A bad person breaks into a home with people sleeping at night. The charge could be burglary which usually gets one probation for the first offense. Or the exact same crime can be called home invasion and the person may be in prison for 75 years. The prosecutor says plead to burglary and we won't charge you with home invasion. The bad actor doesn't want to die in prison so even if innocent will tend to plead guilty. So the only real cure is to require all charges to be filed before anyone interviews the bad actor. Then disallow any changing of the charges. Or we could dump the entire idea of allowing plea bargains.

    1. Re: Larger request by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, we could:

      "...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

      Here's to hoping.

    2. Re:Larger request by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Informative

      The same thing happens with civil lawsuits also. If the RIAA thinks they've caught you uploading a thousand songs, they'll sue you for $150 million (the maximum penalty the law allows). Then, they will offer to settle for "only" $3,000 and a signed statement that they give you which basically admits your guilt and forces your silence on the matter. Your options are a) pay for a lawyer and spend time and money fighting the case knowing that you might lose and, even if you win, might not get back lawyer fees or b) settle and cut your losses.

      Most people understandably choose option b. It's nice to say you'll defend your innocence in theory but in reality a fight like this would be too much for some people when they need to juggle work, bills, and other aspects of real life. The RIAA counts on this and abuses the legal system to ensure as high a "number of pirates caught" number as possible regardless of whether those "pirates" are really guilty or not.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    3. Re:Larger request by Rockoon · · Score: 5, Informative

      Apparently the young man committed suicide due to the threat of severe charges and punishments.

      He was offered a 6-month sentence in a low security prison. Turned it down.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    4. Re:Larger request by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that modern "justice" is severely broken. I read the stat for "pleading guilty to drug offenses" and it's 96%. Probably because only 4% are willing and financially able to fight a prison sentence. GUILT is usually decided by the arresting officer and the rest is a painful formality. Proving yourself innocent is expensive and time consuming and few can afford to lose a job and a house in order to do it.

      Metric for guilt or innocence is; are you angering arresting officer? Guilty. For some reason your story just doesn't add up.
      First person they see at crime scene with any relationship? Prime Suspect. The stat that tells us 80% of the time it's murder by family probably means 80% of the time, someone in the family is dumb enough to talk to the PoPo. Quincy is not going to take forensic evidence and they won't spend a week tracking down a lead -- OK, that's just my impression. But I can't think of a reason for a decent person to become an officer if they have to enforce stupid drug laws, and all the punishments are overly harsh and expensive so they ruin anyone who is poor -- regardless of guilt or innocence. Again, it's too expensive. The real damage in this country is caused by people with power, abusing that power. A higher percent of execs use drugs than people on welfare (it's a fact), but how many rich people ever go to jail.

      25% of people are in jail for "not being able to pay fines." I'm waiting for the day when there is a blanket and pillow surcharge. You want heat in the room; that's extra. Nobody is choosing to stay in a cozy jail cell unless they are thoroughly broken. It's a negative experience and I've only found real growth in my life with positive support. I've yet to see proven the theory that neglect helps people. We had the dark ages -- and the "tough love" they got certainly didn't make them kings.

      Other than the few serial killers, I don't see what benefit society gets from throwing so many people in prison for so long. If someone stole cars and there were REAL rehabilitation, I can't think of any program that would take more than a year if it were coupled with a chance at a real job.

      I saw recently on a John Oliver show that a corporate corrections company bragged to stockholders of its earning potential due to "High re-incarceration rates." That's sick, disgusting and sad.

    5. Re:Larger request by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apparently the young man committed suicide due to the threat of severe charges and punishments.

      He was offered a 6-month sentence in a low security prison. Turned it down.

      What's the point? If I'm innocent then 6 months in any prison is wrong.

      The grandparent has a lot of good points. Another much-needed reform is to force prosecutors to tell the jury the details of all plea bargains that were offered. When someone's facing 70 years in prison and the prosecutor has to sheepishly say to the jury "yeah, we thought 6 months was a reasonable sentence" then the jury's going to step back and say "okay, then what's up with all these charges?"

      The other reform mentioned by the grandparent is to simply disallow adding charges after the initial charges. If they uncover other criminal activity then make it a separate trial or something - it needs to be more expensive in terms of time and money for the prosecution to bring more charges.

    6. Re:Larger request by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

      He thought he was being 'the hero' would would face The Man down. But the deal worked out differently. And in the end he's ended up getting more attention by his death.

      People his age think in terms of Absolute because righteous Adventurism is highly rewarding, and they really don't have big stakes in anything that matters.

    7. Re:Larger request by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the point? If I'm innocent then 6 months in any prison is wrong.

      Then you should go to court and you'll be acquitted.

      Aaron on the other hand was guilty and he knew it. Luckily justice was still served by offing himself.

    8. Re: Larger request by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By all means go and change it. Come on, revolt, be all cool and edgy and matrix. Oh, I forgot, you're just a stupid, cowardly nurd who would shit himself if a mall cop looked at him. Can you hear me snicker?

    9. Re:Larger request by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that modern "justice" is severely broken. I read the stat for "pleading guilty to drug offenses" and it's 96%. Probably because only 4% are willing and financially able to fight a prison sentence. GUILT is usually decided by the arresting officer and the rest is a painful formality. Proving yourself innocent is expensive and time consuming and few can afford to lose a job and a house in order to do it.

      Right, it's because they don't have the money to fight, and not because possession is basically trivial to prove.

      Also, I like how you assume pleading to a drug offense automatically results in jail time. That's totally legit.

    10. Re:Larger request by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      What's the point? If I'm innocent then 6 months in any prison is wrong.

      The point? The great grandparent is wrong in his version of events and misleading in his statements of how the system works, probably deliberately so. The grandparent corrects him as to the facts of the situation.
       
      And he wasn't innocent. (Something many people forget, or rather deliberately ignore.) He committed a crime and was offered a modest punishment - but he turned it down to engage in a high stakes game of chicken with the prosecutor because Swartz wanted to be The Hero and Fight Back Against The Man. He and lawyers forgot two important things however, first - don't bet what you can't afford to lose, second - don't bluff unless you're prepared to be called.

    11. Re:Larger request by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      6 months in prison is not a "modest punishment" for what he did, unless you're completely out of touch with reality when it comes to the US prison system. I suggest you go spend 6 months in the pen and then come back and tell us it's a walk in the park, tough guy.

    12. Re:Larger request by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope some corrupt narco plants a baggie on you and you find yourself in front of a vengeful judge who wants to make an example out of you. People like you just don't get it until you're on the receiving end of this bullshit.

    13. Re:Larger request by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of innocent people in prison. If you get to trial the jury is automatically biased against you as many studies have shown.

    14. Re:Larger request by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are plenty of innocent people in prison.

      Not as many as you think.

    15. Re:Larger request by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of innocent people in prison.

      Not as many as you think.

      You have no idea what I think. I think that relative to the entire prison population it's a fairly small percentage, definitely single digit and probably "low single digit" at that. However, when you have the world's largest prison population that's significant.

      But worse than that a lot of people that we see being declared innocent were convicted of heinous crimes. That's creates two problems: 1. an innocent person is in jail and 2. a murderer/rapist/whatever *isn't* in jail. There have been documented cases of the murderer killing someone else while stupid prosecutors worked overtime to put the wrong guy in jail.

      Obviously Aaron Schwartz was the right person, but the prosecution thought the alleged crime was worth 6 months in the slammer. They instead pursued charges that would have added up to a lifetime sentence. Something's not right in that picture.

  14. Re:All I can say to that is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    He's a weak loser who the internet has a giant hard-on for because he was young and charismatic and stole some IP from the ***EVIL CORPORATIONS***. To the rest of us, he's just some putz who committed suicide when he found out that stealing actually has --GASP-- consequences.

  15. First problem is calling it Aaron's Law by clovis · · Score: 2

    Associating the act with Aaron Swartz such as calling it Aaron's Law is a huge mistake because any congressman that votes for it will have to consider how his opponents would use that against him in the next election. Keep in mind that the people who fund election campaigns are the kind that would look upon Aaron as a simple thief and menace.

    The CFAA certainly needs to be fixed, but a better way would be to not mention Aaron Swartz and rather call it something like "CFAA Modernization Act"

    1. Re:First problem is calling it Aaron's Law by PPH · · Score: 1

      Yes. Its a shame that a small child didn't go on line, steal some copyrighted material and then was driven to suicide by the shame brought down upon the family for harboring such a terrorist.

      Then we could have named it the "Just think of the children law" and it would have passed easily.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:First problem is calling it Aaron's Law by clovis · · Score: 1

      Yes. Its a shame that a small child didn't go on line, steal some copyrighted material and then was driven to suicide by the shame brought down upon the family for harboring such a terrorist.

      Then we could have named it the "Just think of the children law" and it would have passed easily.

      Sadly, I have to agree with you, but am adding the stipulation that the child be from an upper middle class white family. Optimally, it would be a blonde girl who also fell into a well, but that may be asking too much.

    3. Re:First problem is calling it Aaron's Law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A small child would mean pre-puberty, which means death through autoerotic asphixiation wouldn't even be possible.

    4. Re:First problem is calling it Aaron's Law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She needs to be pretty and not a fatso. Jon Bennet Ramsey would have been perfect! That must be why the CIA killed her upon discovery of her hacker skills.

    5. Re:First problem is calling it Aaron's Law by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure about needing to be pretty. The picture of Dru Sjodin I saw (during the discussion of Dru's law) showed her as rather homely.

      I think the actual requirements are a girl or reasonably young woman with Nordic coloring.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  16. Conspiracy theories by mattwarden · · Score: 1

    No conspiracy required. A bill that very few people know about and far fewer would actually have affect their vote pattern or donations has very little chance of going anywhere. Every bill is an opportunity for riders and house-senate conference shenanigans, so I am pretty sure things are working correctly when this goes nowhere.

  17. Re:All I can say to that is... by LifesABeach · · Score: 0

    The law would not pass anyway, reguardless of the bill's content. I believe the there is enough of the group that says "No" that bills just don't get beyond the house.

    Movie and game idea, "The Purge, Welcom to the Koch Bro's Compound."

  18. lack of interest by Vintermann · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There are a thousand laws where "lack of interest amongst the general population" was no obstacle to getting them passed.

    --
    xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    1. Re:lack of interest by you-nix-boy · · Score: 1

      There are a thousand laws where "lack of interest amongst the general population" was no obstacle to getting them passed.

      Not when there are buckets of lobbyist cash propelling them...

      --
      --- Pork is not a verb.
  19. TRICKS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Anytime there is a bill with a nice sounding name, you can bet it's not in the interest of the American people.

    Aaron's parrents should sue the government for misrepresenting the name of his sone. The name tricks people into thinking it is something he supported, but that could not be further from the truth.

  20. they don't want to look soft on crime as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can't pass laws like that without having the person you are running against Say you want to let felons get off the hook.

  21. One more lost customer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oracle, one more company I will not do business with.

    1. Re: One more lost customer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Suit yourself. Your "business" is nothing to Oracle, and to anybody else.

    2. Re: One more lost customer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      add me to that list. fuck oracle. keep adding more and more people and I guarantee you oracle WILL start caring. smart people are starting to figure these shenanigans out. just read all the comments on this thread about corps and government abusing their powers. change is a coming my friend.

  22. Video of Aaron Swartz in MIT network closet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You'll notice that he locked the door and checked the handle before starting (in order to make sure that he wasn't disturbed):

    http://www.wired.com/2013/12/swartz-video/

    I agree that breaking the terms of service should not be a crime. However, the above video shows what is (and should be) a crime.

    All I ask is that, if you argue for Aaron Swartz, you state why the above video shows a perfectly reasonable (and legal) act.

  23. Losers never win. by westlake · · Score: 0

    The fascists are never going to give up power now that they have it.

    Pathetic.

    Translating geek speak into English:

    " I don't know how to communicate effectively with voters and make my issues and my candidates a driving force in any political campaign.

    When I lose I'll take refuge in Godwinism and talk of bribery, further alienating the voters whose advise and support I need the most."

  24. United States House of unRepresentatives .. by lippydude · · Score: 1

    US elections are rigged. But Canada knows how to fix them.

    "When Americans voted for the House of Representatives in 2012, Democratic candidates won 1.4 million more votes than Republicans. Yet after the dust settled, the GOP ended up with a 234-201 majority in the chamber. And several recently-gerrymandered states had particularly odd results — for instance, in Pennsylvania, Republicans won 49 percent of the votes, but 69 percent of the seats."

    1. Re:United States House of unRepresentatives .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gee, and I thought that was going to be a story about how the Cons were "fixing" elections with their robocall scandal.

  25. omg the government is SCREWING me again! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now they can't even agree to vote on MY LAW - Aaron's Law - after I killed myself!

    Please, will somebody help me! I wish so bad I could kill myself all over again!

    - ghost of AS

  26. Called the Rep... by DriveDog · · Score: 1

    Call your Rep if they're on the Judiciary Committee. Google the committee to find out who's on it. My Rep's staffer was unfamiliar with the bill. At least bring it to their attention. I've usually sent email. It hasn't gotten the attention that a voice phone call has. Be polite and firm and be ready to explain what the bill is.

  27. Not A Martyr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We need to stop making a martyr out of Swartz. The dude hung himself practicing autoerotic asphyxia.