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What Do You Do When Your Mind-Numbing IT Job Should Be Automated?

jfruh writes Not everyone has a job like Homer Simpson, who's been replaced at various times by a brick tied to a lever and a chicken named Queenie. But many IT workers have come up against mind-numbing, repetitive tasks that probably could be automated. So: what do you do about it? Well, the answer depends on how much power you have in an organization and how much your bosses respect your opinion.

228 comments

  1. QUIT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    QUIT

  2. Automate it by Lennie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Learn how best to automate that task so you can start on other projects to automating other tasks.

    --
    New things are always on the horizon
    1. Re:Automate it by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Learn how best to automate that task so you can browse Slashdot all day.

      FTFY.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Automate It by MatthewCCNA · · Score: 1

      Automating simple/repetitive tasks represents most of my self assigned projects (in between larger/outside funded development projects which are assigned) the most important thing is to always be working on something... or at the very least always appear to be working on something.

      --
      "He is so stupid. And now back to the wall!" Moe Szyslak
    3. Re:Automate it by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Absolutely, but DO NOT TELL ANYONE. honestly automation will not get you a raise or a promotion, it will just get you extra work. for the same pay.
      Automate all of it and keep your frigging mouth shut.
      Hell I used to automate emails to be sent at 2am so that management though I was working 24/7.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:Automate it by jafiwam · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Learn how best to automate that task so you can start on other projects to automating other tasks.

      Yup. But do it in secret and don't share the automation with the employer. Use your spare time to look for a new job.

      IF you come to the point where know your job is going to evaporate, it's better not to make a lot of waves (and that includes positive ones) until you are ready to go anyway. Your employer is already NOT paying attention and may not have a full understanding of what you do already. You'll be facing "the Bob's" in no time.

      There is a reason they call it "work." Boring and repetitive comes with that. Brush up on your Zen skills and deal with it. And FIND ANOTHER JOB.

    5. Re:Automate it by Sobrique · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you pull out the all the stops occasionally, you're a hero. If you do it routinely, you're taken for granted. It's hard enough to measure 'productivity' in IT anyway. Far better to automate your job, and 'pay yourself' to support it on an ongoing basis.

    6. Re:Automate it by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      I don't need to maintain my scripts, they work the first time. No fires to put out. No one offs.
      I am not lazy or incompetent. My stuff actually works too well.
      I do fear automating myself out of work.

      Wow, it must be interesting to work in an environment where your inputs, outputs, environment, and processing requirements never change.

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    7. Re:Automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, don't document your automated script so much. That way you are harder to replace :)

    8. Re:Automate it by Corbets · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Absolutely, but DO NOT TELL ANYONE. honestly automation will not get you a raise or a promotion, it will just get you extra work. for the same pay.
      Automate all of it and keep your frigging mouth shut.
      Hell I used to automate emails to be sent at 2am so that management though I was working 24/7.

      If you've automated your job, *shouldn't* you get new tasks to do? You're being paid to do the job to the best of your ability. You've done that by automating - but that leaves you on-the-clock time to do other productive tasks.

    9. Re:Automate it by ALeader71 · · Score: 1

      Wow, sounds like you've been burned! Honestly, in our industry why wouldn't you automate the drudgery, then move on to other tasks? Or perhaps use the experience to seek a better job?

      --
      Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato
    10. Re:Automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nobody is going to fire a magical programmer whose scripts always work first time and never need maintenance.

    11. Re:Automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You won't get a raise over it, at worst "let go" from the job. Might as well reap the rewards of reduced workload and stress. Besides, employment is just like any other business agreement; it's mutual. So unless it's part of the job description to emphasize automation, you're doing it for YOU, not them.

    12. Re:Automate it by plopez · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No. That would be wrong. A worker should maximize efficiency by discovering the best way to achieve maximum pay with minimal work. That is what economists say the company should be doing and since companies are now people and workers are people that's what workers should do. In fact doing it any other way flies in the face of the "Free Market" and therefore maximizing efficiency is both an ethical and moral imperative.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    13. Re:Automate it by anmre · · Score: 1

      You sound like a manager. Having a "what have you done for me lately" attitude only demotivates your best employees. How about letting that company-time-saving individual go home an hour early on Friday? For the love of jeebus, that's all it takes to keep him happy!

      Also, obligatory Dilbert

    14. Re:Automate it by pla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you've automated your job, *shouldn't* you get new tasks to do? You're being paid to do the job to the best of your ability. You've done that by automating - but that leaves you on-the-clock time to do other productive tasks.

      If they want to pay me hourly, then yes, absolutely. As long as employers do their damnedest to push the limits of "exempt", however, then very much no. I get paid to perform certain tasks to the best of my ability. As long as my employer doesn't care whether that takes me 40 or 60 hours a week, then I don't care if it only takes me 20.

      Note that I mean this somewhat in the abstract, in the sense that I refuse to work for someone who expects me to work more than 40 a week regulary. My current employer actually treats me pretty well, and as a result, yes, if I automate task X, I'll spend my newly-found time doing the rest of my work somewhat better (I wouldn't specifically say "picking up new tasks", because we all know that what we can do in 40 hours doesn't mean we should to produce the optimal result).

    15. Re:Automate it by master_kaos · · Score: 2

      I guess it depends on the company. I work for a small company with just 2 developers. We have A LOT of processes automated. If we didn't we would only be doing 1/4 the amount of work we currently do. Yes you know what sometimes automation breaks but we fix it. Also any automation that is done that only saves 10 minutes per day the person that was originally in charge of that work still is required to know how to do it manually so that if it eventually breaks it won't effect them other than opening a ticket and doing the process manually.
      We get p(raises) for our automation and how much we can churn out.

    16. Re: Automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep.
      If you save it for a big crisis, you are saving the day.

      If you do foo all the time, then your just a janitor cleaning up their mess.

    17. Re:Automate it by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, it would be okay for you to get additional tasks to do as long as the pay increased in proportion (which of course, would not actually happen). So the GP was not necessarily wrong, just unrealistic.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    18. Re:Automate it by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      No. That would be wrong. A worker should maximize efficiency by discovering the best way to achieve maximum pay with minimal work. That is what economists say the company should be doing and since companies are now people and workers are people that's what workers should do. In fact doing it any other way flies in the face of the "Free Market" and therefore maximizing efficiency is both an ethical and moral imperative.

      This "free market" theory of yours works for a while until someone else discovers that they can automate the task
      you've already automated and you're out of a job. That's how the "free market" really works. If you were the only
      farmer with a combine then you would make a ton of money but eventually everyone else gets one too and your
      competitive advantage goes away. If you really do come up with a "time-saving" device, the best way to get rich
      with it is to either hide it so noone knows about it or license it so that every pays you for it.

    19. Re:Automate it by operagost · · Score: 1

      It's an interesting question of ethics whether or not you should comprehensively document the scripts so that they can be maintained. After all, once you've automated much of your job penny-pinching and shortsighted managers could decide you're no longer needed. We're assuming they're wrong, and you really ARE needed and not just looking for a Wally job (see Dilbert). I'm pretty sure putting a dead-man's switch in the scripts (unless it's actually a safety feature, to ensure that someone's checking the logs in case there is a potentially data-destroying fault) is unethical, but what about all the time put into documenting any code and daily operations?

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    20. Re:Automate it by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Relevant XKCD http://xkcd.com/1205/

      We actually use that chart to represent time gain efficiencies to automation.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    21. Re:Automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, no you shouldn't get new tasks to do. At least not so many that they take as much time as the original one. Why? Because automation requires monitoring and maintenance, and to be truly valuable it requires consistent re-thinking and examination of failure cases.

      If I write a good script to automate something, in theory, it will produce less errors than I would have doing it by hand. It will do it more efficiently. That means that I can spend more time on QC for the task. I can start looking at my inputs and outputs, and the next steps beyond them to ensure that the data in is better and the resulting data out is better. All of this makes my work even more valuable for company.

      The alternate, which happens ALL THE TIME, is that something gets automated, the person who automated it moves on to bigger and better things, and bugs and failure cases start creeping into the process. Because it's a black box without an owner looking at inputs and outputs, we design systems either before it or after it to handle those failure cases. Jan ends up looking through the spreadsheet at the end of the month for garbled cells, and replaces them with 0, that sort of crap.

      Your job or the task that you've automated doesn't exist in a vacuum. Ensuring that the processes that interact with it are given a similar consideration is important. If you simply automate and move on you've improved one link in the chain. That doesn't make a strong chain, just a strong link. And if you're not monitoring the work you've automated, you've just created a liability for the organization, because should your link break, the whole chain goes down. And even if your link doesn't break, just slowly degrades with time, you've still got a liability, and likely systems popping up to start handling the issues your slowly rotting automation has caused.

      Automate your link, and start working your way up and down the chain. But don't forget to monitor the work, don't forget to consistently look for failure and edge cases, and don't forget that if shit starts breaking that you need to have the free time to identify it and fix it.

    22. Re:Automate it by operagost · · Score: 2

      As a dirty libertarian capitalist, I agree with this. Management's job is to set objectives and make sure they're accomplished, within budget. If one of their employees can meet these objectives in 20 hours a week by being a genius with the computing speed of Data and the communication skills of Ronald Reagan, so be it. If they can meet them by being cunning, and working a few extra hours to automate tasks so that they can meet the objectives in 20 hours a week, so be it. Only a moronic manager (but I repeat myself) would fire that guy because he wouldn't take on more work-- because you'll be lucky if the next guy can get the same work done in 40 hours.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    23. Re:Automate it by operagost · · Score: 1

      Knowing the task well enough to automate it, and knowing how to automate tasks at all, is a skill that not everyone has. It's like the anecdote about Charles Steinmetz, who charged Ford $1 for a chalk mark on the proper access panel of a faulty generator and $9,999 for knowing where to put it.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    24. Re:Automate it by digsbo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And, if the worker wants to, he should ask for a raise and more work. This would benefit him and the business financially; whether it would happen depends on the wisdom of his managers. Less efficient firms would be forced to innovate in kind or suffer competitive disadvantages.

    25. Re:Automate it by MarkvW · · Score: 1

      Yes, you have a moral duty to your corporate overlord to serve it to the best of your ability. You must strive to do more than the job that you are paid to do because that is your moral duty. In return, you can fully expect your corporate overlord to honor its moral duty to you (because it has no duty to you).

    26. Re:Automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely, but DO NOT TELL ANYONE. honestly automation will not get you a raise or a promotion, it will just get you extra work. for the same pay.
      Automate all of it and keep your frigging mouth shut.
      Hell I used to automate emails to be sent at 2am so that management though I was working 24/7.

      You think we're that dumb and you expect us to give you a raise, or a promotion?

      Next time, don't make it so obvious.

      Thanks,
      Management

    27. Re:Automate it by TWX · · Score: 1

      I call this the, "keep your mouth shut," approach.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    28. Re:Automate it by plopez · · Score: 4, Funny

      Good Lord. Next time I will explicitly set the 'sarcasm' tags. There are too many things wrong with my argument to even begin to suspend disbelief.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    29. Re:Automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      license it so that every pays you for it

      So, business method patents it is, then!

    30. Re:Automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This ^^ lol.

      Automate your own job to whatever degree you can, but don't brag about it or tell anyone about it.

      It is a true statement that if you can magically do 3x the work of everyone else, you're not going to get 3x the pay, you're going to get 3x more work to do. Automate your job to make your life easier while at work, but not so much that it ultimately deprives you of the job :D

    31. Re:Automate it by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      There is a fine line between a dead mans switch and an unnecessarily complicated script.

      But always remember, unfireable is unpromotable.

      However, on the gripping hand, being unpromotable is not an issue if your employer doesn't promote anyhow. Being unpromotable is not the same thing as being tied to you job. Go ahead and make yourself unpromotable, but then find a new place and really screw over the assholes.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    32. Re:Automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm being paid to do a / my job. I am not being paid to do everyone ELSE'S work for them simply because I am more efficient at it.

      However if I find a way to do twice the work in half the time, and you compensate me for it, then we can discuss picking up additional tasks to do. I do NOT expect you to pile double the work onto me then watch you enjoy your fat bonus check you get at the end of the year for magically getting so much done by abusing the more efficient members of your team. ( Which is usually the case )

      Efficiency comes at a price, if you're unwilling to fund it, I'll substitute the $$$ out for time.

    33. Re:Automate it by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Absolutely, but DO NOT TELL ANYONE. honestly automation will not get you a raise or a promotion, it will just get you extra work. for the same pay.
      Automate all of it and keep your frigging mouth shut.
      Hell I used to automate emails to be sent at 2am so that management though I was working 24/7.

      If you've automated your job, *shouldn't* you get new tasks to do? You're being paid to do the job to the best of your ability. You've done that by automating - but that leaves you on-the-clock time to do other productive tasks.

      Perhaps, but with the understanding that part of your time will now be devoted to maintaining the automation you created.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    34. Re:Automate it by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't consider a combine, a washing machine, or turbotax a "business method patent".
      Those all automate tedious tasks. If you were the only one who had a washing machine
      or tax software then you could charge the same as everyone else yet do work multiple
      times faster. Historically this has been tried many times. Some times the person takes
      the secret to their grave and noone ever discovers it but most of the time the competitive
      advantage doesn't last too long as someone else figures out a way to copy it.

    35. Re:Automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But always remember, unfireable is unpromotable.

      I guess you haven't been keeping up on 'current events', but there ain't no such thing as a free lunch^w^w^w job security.

      Also, the spoon cuts both ways: you are at liberty to fire the company you work for whenever they become more trouble than they're worth (to you).

    36. Re:Automate it by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Or do what I do, tell management to fornicate themselves and their horse by getting a job with the competition who will give me a 15%-25% pay increase to jump ship.
      Recycle this every 5 years and you are golden.

      Nobody gives raises, my current job is royally fucked when I leave because the other guy left 5 months ago and instead of hiring someone, they threw me an intern and said, "train him to be as good as you are".

      Gave my 2 weeks notice today and the boss is shitting himself as there will not be anyone to do my job, and it will cost them $60K to hire even a mildly competent replacement..... suddenly that $10K a year raise they should have given me 3 months ago when I ask looks like it would have been a good idea.

      I love how non competes are illegal in this state....

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    37. Re:Automate it by operagost · · Score: 1

      I used to follow that strategy when I was younger. I stuck with my current position over 10 years, because I found myself in a great team and a great business line inside a large corporation. That corporation has made several poor choices regarding both capital and personnel that expose it to various kinds of risk-- including the compensation of THIS particular human resource. I'm part of a critical two-man team, so if one of us leaves the other is sure to follow-- there are issues such as 24-hour on-call that would make hanging around intolerable when it's questionable that the vacated position would ever be filled at all. Besides my industry experience and skills, I have entrepreneurial options so walking out would be scary, but exciting. I'm trying to impress this on my superiors in a low-key, professional manner but the foot dragging continues, so the nuclear option becomes more likely every day.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    38. Re: Automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think like a poor man.
      1. Automate it.
      2. Don't tell your boss.
      3. Sit down and relax.
      4. Get paid.
      5. Wait until you have enough money.
      6. Start a consulting company.
      7. Sell your automation to your old employer for big dollars.
      8. Sell your profitable start-up for big dollars.
      9. Profit, there is no ????

    39. Re:Automate it by digsbo · · Score: 1

      I'm happy for you. You're teaching them a lesson; whether they learn it is NOT your problem. Good luck and continued success to you!

    40. Re:Automate it by digsbo · · Score: 1

      I'm in a similar spot. I'm getting a little high salary-wise and don't want to lose a 15 minute zero-stress commute, or a great team, and so I'm OK with being paid slightly under market for a while. There are benefits other than money at a certain point that can be worth more to the individual.

    41. Re:Automate it by egranlund · · Score: 1

      You won't get a raise over it, at worst "let go" from the job. Might as well reap the rewards of reduced workload and stress. Besides, employment is just like any other business agreement; it's mutual. So unless it's part of the job description to emphasize automation, you're doing it for YOU, not them.

      Bleh, that sounds boring.

      I automate all boring crap, so I can do more interesting things.

    42. Re:Automate it by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      When you realize they are taking advantage of you, please do the right thing and walk.
      They absolutely can afford to give you a 10% pay increase right now, they consciously choose to not to. I bet they can afford a 20% pay increase.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  3. Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Automate it yourself and go to the pub.

    1. Re:Easy by some+old+guy · · Score: 1

      Works for me! :)

      --
      Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
  4. Oh sure, that's brilliant! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tell your boss that your job can be automated? Unemployed in 3...2...1...

  5. Automate them by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, automate them, off course. That is how I started my programming career. I started as a technical draftsman using AutoCAD, and I was "actively lazy": when I had to type something 10 times, I wrote a little program to do that for me. When my bosses noticed that my computer was better configured than that of my colleagues, I started getting programming assignments as well.

    --
    Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    1. Re:Automate them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've shown my "extra skills" at work, too. I was invited once to design some extensive automation on a couple of repetitive processes, which I indeed did. I designed the whole system from top to bottom and handed over the documentation for review and implementation. This is where it all went South, though. I was asked to design the system without any authority over its implementation. The documentation had every last detail in it, but they went on and did some "changes" before it was implemented.

      Everything was interrelated, though, which they didn't take into account when they did the changes without consulting me. It lead to a catastrophic failure with quite a few bucks lost down the drain due to poor implementation, which in turn was due to altered documentation. Guess who got the blame? Haven't done any such work without acquiring proper authority and responsibility over a project ever since. It sucks to be responsible of something that is out of your full control.

      I'm not saying nobody should try to introduce their great ideas to others, I'm just saying that if you do so, make sure you are responsible only of what you can actually control. What happened to me cast a long shadow over my career for some time.

    2. Re:Automate them by RabidReindeer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I always automate.

      Then I get laid off because "I'm not doing anything."

      People who don't automate, and get paid by the hour to do the same thing over and over again stay on.

    3. Re:Automate them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you truly had done a complete and proper job of specifying how this software system would work, then you inherently would have already implemented it.

      That's all that a software system implementation is, of course. It's a (hopefully) unambiguous and (hopefully) complete description of the system that can be interpreted without issue by a computer.

      My guess, however, is that your "top to bottom" design with "every last detail" was actually missing critical parts. The "changes" you describe were the implementors trying to work around the problems that you overlooked, or the functionality that you missed.

      If your design documentation couldn't be directly executed by the computer and tested, then we cannot say that it was even remotely complete or correct.

    4. Re:Automate them by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      Your fault for opening your mouth and telling them.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:Automate them by landoltjp · · Score: 1

      "Actively lazy" is a GREAT way to approach automation. Good job. My colleagues and I call that "Precrastination"!

    6. Re:Automate them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I understand what you're saying, but it wasn't the case. The changes were not due to incomplete documentation but a non-technical manager's change of mind. I would not even had objected to any changes, but since I was ultimately bypassed when the changes were made, I wasn't able to help them adjust other parts of the system to correspond with these changes.

      The system had thorough documentation and I had tested the logic on all areas several times. Subcontractors were in charge of the implementation and a skilled coder would've probably noticed the parts of the system that were broken by the changes. When they decided to go with the cheapest offer, skill is not what you usually get, though.

      It was a good opportunity and I definitely should've gotten myself more involved with it. I was a lower level employee back then and I thought it's best not to piss on anybody's shoes. I guess I should've just unzipped and let it all out. :-)

    7. Re:Automate them by Sobrique · · Score: 2

      Lots of people 'play spreadsheets' all day, which is working really inefficiently. Some companies prefer this, because they operate on billable hours in the first place. You being efficient costs them money. Some companies know better, and will value your skills. You should go and work for those. Getting laid off sucks a bit, but it's far from the worst thing that'll ever happen to you.

    8. Re:Automate them by Sobrique · · Score: 1

      I've espoused the doctrine of proactive laziness since I started sysadminnning. I figure I'm doing my very best work when there's nothing that I need to be doing, and I can be spending my time fiddling with the next thing.
      That means applying appropriate automation and scripting. (Don't overdo it - not all scripts need to be gold plated).
      Decent documentation. (Which is easier: explaining or fixing a problem, or saying 'RTFM' and waving a hand dismissively - if TFM is up to scratch, they won't come back and bother you)
      Tackle tasks that'll become a pain, before they're a pain.
      The combination of these means I've had a fairly easy and productive live in 'systems admin', because I've never had a need to diddle with spreadsheets to look like I'm working.

    9. Re:Automate them by anmre · · Score: 1

      To a certain extent, perhaps. However, eyeballing a 100+ line spreadsheet is 100% likely to produce errors. I know, I know ... real geeks don't use spreadsheets! But managers do! I think the article is expressing the woes of the common cubicle-warrior who is damned if they do, damned if they don't in this regard.

    10. Re:Automate them by zauberberg51 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, my last boss wanted a spreadsheet every couple of months on all of the development databases ( I was in the DBA group for a SQL Server shop), what size were they, what version of the two parts of the application were installed. It would take half a day to run through all 60+ development databases. After I did it the first time, I started writing scripts to gather the data from the data dictionary for each database and storing in a few of tables in each database. I had another script that ran every week that collected the data from each database and wrote it to a schema on my local database and to a schema on one of the newer systems. He stopped asking for the spreadsheet after the second request because I pointed him to the repository where he could export the data into a spreadsheet or query the data to ask questions about the weekly history of changes. All of the jobs ran under my network id, so when they laid me off, all of the jobs had to fail. I still wonder if they remembered to changed the ownership of those jobs or if they are continuing to fail because my id is inactive.

    11. Re:Automate them by psmears · · Score: 2

      If your design documentation couldn't be directly executed by the computer and tested, then we cannot say that it was even remotely complete or correct.

      That's not true - it's perfectly possible to give a specification that's complete and comprehensive, and yet is not executable by a computer.

      For instance, you could specify a "sort" function by saying that (1) it must return a list that contains a rearrangement of the items passed in, (2) that list must be in ascending order, (3) the time taken must be less than K*n*log(n), where n is the number of items passed in.

      I've given that specification in English for brevity, but you could equally specify it in a more formal way - and indeed in one that the computer could verify for any instance of the problem that you put in. (Some might call this "specifcation by unit test".) But the computer could not, in general, go from the specification to an implementation completely automatically.

    12. Re:Automate them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was with you until the part where you said you built something that failed immediately (and deliberately) when you quit. That's pretty sloppy, and serves to illustrate the downside of these sorts of grass-roots tools.

      At my company we are currently feeling the pain of this: a power user created a tool to automate several of his tasks, and then over time started to show other teams how to use it. However, he didn't show anyone how to run it or develop it. He quit, and now we have a team that has grown dependent on the tool for day-to-day operations (naturally the team was able to take on new responsibilities because they were able to execute former tasks more efficiently) and yet no in-house resources knowledgeable about it nor assigned to maintain it.

      Maintenance is the unexpected and often unrecognized cost of automation, but I suppose at least your tool failed immediately at your departure, rather than months later when you were long gone, so that the correlation between your departure and the failure had some chance of being correlated.

    13. Re:Automate them by Nukenbar · · Score: 1

      As an attorney, I totally understand this.

      Considering most of our job is writing, I'm amazed at how poorly most people understand Microsoft word. I am not an expert, but if you don't even know what style sheets are or how to insert a cross reference, you are creating SO much more work for yourself as you try to "clean-up" the document later.

      But as attorneys who are getting paid by the hour, there can be short term benefit (more billable hours) to this inefficiency.

    14. Re:Automate them by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

      He said laid off, not quit.

      Personally, if I quit (or otherwise left) on good terms, I'd have no problem telling someone how to fix/change such things before I left.
      If they laid me off, I wouldn't care about being sloppy.

  6. Automate It by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

    Sorry but this is what I do for a living. Find an automation tool that works and implement it. Rinse and repeat!

    --

    Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

  7. By all means, automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So: what do you do about it? Well, the answer depends on how much power you have in an organization and how much your bosses respect your opinion.

    I don't think anyone would oppose a little bit of automation if it makes sense. Just write a couple of PowerShell scripts to do the thing.

    1. Re:By all means, automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Powershell? WTF???

      Powershell does not run on Mainframes (a.k.a. real computers) you insensitive clod.

    2. Re:By all means, automate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, ok. :) I didn't have time to read the article, but if there is a mainframe involved, then PS would be out of picture indeed.

    3. Re:By all means, automate it by omnichad · · Score: 1

      But running software on a mainframe requires you to have "power...in an organization." Anyone can automate tasks from their own workstation without any authority needed.

  8. shove it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yo, if your boss is a s-o-b
    Tell him to s-h-o-v-e the j-o-b
    Put your middle finger up slowly
    Put it close enough to his face so he can examine it closely
    Say I ain't workin here no more
    Who do you think you are?
    Rip your apron off, throw it on the floor
    Run to the door, to the payphone
    Make a toll-free call
    Tell your spouse what happened and where you are
    So they can come and get you in the car later on
    And help you search for a new 9 to 5 job
    If the unemployment line ain't that long
    You can take your time printin out w-9 forms
    Eventually, you'll get on if you try hard enough
    And you'll get money if you keep punchin your time card enough
    Maybe you hate it, maybe you love it
    But if you hate it all you gotta do is get mad and tell the boss to

    Take this job and shove it
    I ain't workin here no more
    Take this job and shove it
    I ain't workin here no more
    Take this job and shove it
    I ain't workin here no more
    Take this job, take this job, take this job and shove it

  9. Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Automate it on the dl and get paid while you pretend to work all day.

    1. Re:Simple by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Welcome to Slashdot.

  10. Evaluate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You evaluate how long it should take, automate if possible and enjoy paid time poking navel/beer/"insert hobby".
    When customers are happy boss is happy.

  11. And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I always hear managers and programmers say, "We'll just automate it!"

    But that's usually the easiest part of the whole process. They rarely look beyond it, to the maintenance phase.

    The maintenance phase, of course, often lasts far longer than the implementation phase. It often outlasts the people who pushed for the automation in the first place, and the people who initially implemented it.

    No automation is perfect, and no surrounding environment is static. Things will break, or change will eventually be needed. And this is where automation can often fall flat on its face.

    I can't count the number of times I've seen companies with scripts or apps that perform some simple operation, but it only saves a few minutes each day. Yet at some point something with the automation breaks or needs to be changed, but the original developers are long gone, and now some other developer has to investigate.

    This poor developer will end up needing hours, days, weeks, or even months in some cases in order to find out where the fuck the script or app is running, where the hell the most recent version of the source code is, how to get it running on a development system, and how it works, all before being able to make the fix or the change. Then it takes time to fix it or make the change, plus some time for testing, and then it needs to be redeployed, and finally it needs to be monitored for some time.

    So the automation saved maybe a few dollars a day. Yet just a single fix or change to the automation can end up costing hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of dollars once all is said and done. Merely one small fix or change can literally wipe out any cost savings that the automation has ever brought in the past, and then wipe it out for the next few years!

    It's all rainbows and roses to claim that "documentation" or "training" or "best practices" will solve these problems, but even when those are in place and actually working, they rarely reduce the actual cost of maintenance.

    So do some real analysis before screaming, "JUST AUTOMATE IT!" The cost of even simple or minor automation can quite often far, far exceed the benefits it'll ever bring. Maybe it's better to have the intern or low-paid employee just do the work manually for a few minutes each day.

    1. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Things will break, or change will eventually be needed.

      Good luck explaining necessary maintenance to a PHB who screams like a cretin about every OS upgrade and security patch: "YOU CHANGE SOME THING!!!"

    2. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Please mod parent up! There are some decent points in this posting, regardless of it coming from an AC.

      I've spent a good 15+ years doing process automation. And process automation itself is indeed a process. It's significantly more than some server monkey slapping together a script together during lunch to do something. Don't get me wrong; such an approach is fine if it's going to sit on an admin's machine and be used every once in a while. But once enshrined in day-to-day operations, the game changes.

      What are the specifics that the script is going to do?
      What is the "Happy Path" operation of the script?
      How will common / uncommon errors / exceptions be handled?
      How will the script handle unknown or unexpected errors (ie. is it written to be resiliant)?
      How will the script be monitoried (e.g. snmp stuff) to ensure it hasn't choked?
      Where are these scripts being maintained and managed (ie, groupings of P.A. scripts in version control)
      WHERE IS THE DOCUMENTATION ABOUT THE SCRIPT?

      Stuff like that.

      Do some planning. Be a software developer about it. Just because it's a [Perl | Python | Groovy | Bash | DOS ] script does not mean it should be treated differently than compiled source or a more complex app.

      Do you need to turn this into a full-blown project, with 8x the overhead of just writing the damn script and sticking it in place? No.
      Do you just write the damn script and hope for the best? No, not if you want the system to die a horrible, disfiguring death.

      So, put a bit of planning into what's being done. Prove the script out first. Test it (remember that?). Manage it.

    3. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That is what documentation is for.

      Not just user documentation, but also system documentation. Good commenting of the procedure can also help.

      Without the documentation you can't pass on the procedure (or support).

      Now, even without documentation, it becomes just your baby... Maybe it helps you do your job, but you better have SOME documentation so you will know what it does, and how to change it when you HAVE to change it in the future.

    4. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      The maintenance phase, of course, often lasts far longer than the implementation phase. It often outlasts the people who pushed for the automation in the first place, and the people who initially implemented it. ... No automation is perfect, and no surrounding environment is static. Things will break, or change will eventually be needed. And this is where automation can often fall flat on its face. ... I can't count the number of times I've seen companies with scripts or apps that perform some simple operation, but it only saves a few minutes each day. Yet at some point something with the automation breaks or needs to be changed, but the original developers are long gone, and now some other developer has to investigate. ... This poor developer will end up needing hours, days, weeks, or even months in some cases in order to find out where the fuck the script or app is running, where the hell the most recent version of the source code is, how to get it running on a development system, and how it works, all before being able to make the fix or the change. Then it takes time to fix it or make the change, plus some time for testing, and then it needs to be redeployed, and finally it needs to be monitored for some time.

      Which is a social and cultural problem, not a problem of automation itself. If people were using open environments similar to Smalltalk or Oberon, half of those problems would go away. As ESR put it in TAoUP, there are simply systems hostile to casual programming. Now he of course draws the comparison between IBM's MVS and Microsoft Windows on one side, and Unix on the other side, but I'd actually stack MVS and Windows AND Unix against Smalltalk and Oberon. (Mind you, those two systems are far from being perfect, for example, documentation and code analysis/comprehension tooling could use some huge improvements, but IMO, those systems are at least heading roughly in the right direction.)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    5. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Sobrique · · Score: 1

      Not that you'll care, if you're the person who's already moved on :).

    6. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Sobrique · · Score: 1

      Scripts are generally more accessible, but that's about it when it comes to comparison with other languages. That means you get some pretty bad scripts, but ... well, there's no real reason to not use decent coding practice. The core one being 'get everyone involved a working knowledge of the language'.

    7. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If people were using Smalltalk and Oberon, they'd still be trying to build the basic libraries necessary for creating a modern server, desktop or web app of any sort. They wouldn't even have started developing their own application yet.

      Get real, okay? Those are dead 1970s/1980s-era languages. They died out then because they weren't useful. And they still aren't useful today!

    8. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's all rainbows and roses to claim that "documentation" or "training" or "best practices" will solve these problems, but even when those are in place and actually working, they rarely reduce the actual cost of maintenance.

      Oh, enough weasel words. You start off with a strawman of "it saves a few minutes a day" when in fact nobody automates systems that actually only take a few minutes a day - and it's probably your "few minutes a day" that's off, if they do (you're ignoring the costs of errors - the few minutes a day can often cost half a day if it's done wrong). Then you quote "documentation" as if it's some kind of mythical being and again maybe in your experience it is, but get real. Documentation solves all the problems you cite. Documenting your automated systems does reduce the actual cost of maintaining them. And I suspect if you'd ever seen it in place and actually working, you wouldn't be giving us this luddite anti-automation rant on the basis of a woeful misunderstanding of what constitutes a business case.

    9. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      :DDD Yeah, right, because Seaside never made any impression on anyone, despite so many people trying to copy its basic design, and it didn't even work because there's obviously never been any libraries to make it work. You're an idiot.

      Let me know when "non-dead languages" finally get the capabilites of the "dead" Smalltalk debugger. I'll go make myself a few million cups of coffee in the meantime.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    10. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Shortguy881 · · Score: 1

      Clearly progress is a bad thing. F*** science and technology. Who needs them?

      --
      Brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.
    11. Re: And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you give us some examples of modern, notable and widely used web apps written using Seaside and Smalltalk?

      Can you give us some examples of any modern, notable and widely used apps of any kind written in Smalltalk?

    12. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by ArcadeMan · · Score: 2

      But that's usually the easiest part of the whole process. They rarely look beyond it, to the maintenance phase.

      We'll just automate the maintenance phase.

    13. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by landoltjp · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I had posted the above, but clicked "Post Anonymously". Didn't want to leave the impression that I was the Posting AND Replying message

    14. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you missed two of the most important aspects of automating.
      1. What is the potential cost of the automation failing??? (aka how closely should the automation be monitored)
      2. How long will it be until someone notices erroneous operation that the program didn't self catch???

    15. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      But who automates the automaters?

    16. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by sensei+moreh · · Score: 1

      So do some real analysis...

      I took two quarters of real analysis as an undergraduate, but I never took complex analysis.

      --
      Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
    17. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Daniel+Hoffmann · · Score: 1

      I feel your pain, but the area I work with in the company has been using trello to keep track of this kind of stuff, we have one card for each process/application/script running on our servers. These cards describe what each script does, where it runs, how often it runs and so on. It has been working great.

    18. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by mpe · · Score: 1

      I always hear managers and programmers say, "We'll just automate it!"

      The word "just" can cover a multitude of sins.

    19. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Wycliffe · · Score: 2

      I can't count the number of times I've seen companies with scripts or apps that perform some simple operation, but it only saves a few minutes each day. Yet at some point something with the automation breaks or needs to be changed, but the original developers are long gone, and now some other developer has to investigate.

      This poor developer will end up needing hours, days, weeks, or even months in some cases in order to find out where the fuck the script or app is running, where the hell the most recent version of the source code is, how to get it running on a development system, and how it works, all before being able to make the fix or the change. Then it takes time to fix it or make the change, plus some time for testing, and then it needs to be redeployed, and finally it needs to be monitored for some time.

      So the automation saved maybe a few dollars a day. Yet just a single fix or change to the automation can end up costing hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of dollars once all is said and done. Merely one small fix or change can literally wipe out any cost savings that the automation has ever brought in the past, and then wipe it out for the next few years!

      If it's only saving a few minutes per day then when/if it breaks then you scrap it. Why would you spend "days, weeks, or even months" fixing a script
      that is only saving you a few minutes per day?

      This xkcd comic tells you when to automate: http://xkcd.com/1205/ but it applies equally to how long you can afford to spend fixing a script that breaks.
      This is across 5 years so IMHO you should probably cut the number in half so that 1) you are actually coming out ahead and 2) you have some room
      for updating/repairing the script when it breaks.

    20. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're getting that wound up over automation, you're doing it wrong.

      Automation of repetitive tasks needs to be simple. Simple to implement, simple to maintain, simple to use.

      Build a framework for automation to work from, or buy one.
      Then build each component as a simple module, that anyone can look at and understand.
      Build simple wrappers to combine the functions provided by the modules as needed.

      Don't use languages like java, python or perl when plain and simple shell scripts will suffice - ksh, awk, sed are still your best friend when automating UNIX variant processes.

    21. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Which is a social and cultural problem, not a problem of automation itself. If people were using open environments similar to Smalltalk or Oberon half of those problems would go away.

      Switching to a new language won't solve the problem. Documentation is the right answer, but not just any documentation will do.

      You need to understand how the manual part works before you think of having an automatic part.

      Then you need a document for the automated version of the process: hyperlinked to a document about each script and each server and each service and each related process.

    22. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please mod parent up! There are some decent points in this posting, regardless of it coming from an AC.

      I've been saying that for years, yet somehow I constantly get modded a troll.

      The mods are a bunch of sheep that can't think for themselves.

    23. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by drew870mitchell · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately documentation is the epitome of "in a perfect world, yeah, but we have another problem to tackle right now."

    24. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cyberdyne?

    25. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by chemicaldave · · Score: 1

      This is an example of where DevOps comes in handy. Developers make requests, and devops creates it (it it doesn't already exist), a maintains it.

    26. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I wasn't talking about languages, more about environments (both that I mentioned are not merely a syntactic and semantic definitions of a language, they're complete software artifacts, with OS kernels, runtimes, compilers, tools, and conventions). And actually, this is the part I actually had in mind: the documentation tools suck. These days, I'd expect some sort of an inter-linked system, allowing you to not just jump between pieces of code in your editor, but, i.e., to find all relevant document referring to the code fragment you're working on, regardless of wherever it is mentioned, and vice versa. Unfortunately, in the mainstream world, IDEs and wikis in browsers are separate worlds, unless you write an extension for the browser and a plugin for the IDE to take care of that.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    27. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it breaks you can go back doing it the manual way until you fix it.. So how could you possibly be losing time ?

    28. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The real reason to automate the sorts of tasks that only take a couple minutes is NOT to save time. It's to ensure consistency. To eliminate mistakes. And if that's the case, saying it takes more time to fix than not having automation, you missed the point.

    29. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      You need a job scheduler to centralize the tasks and knowledge of the processes, so you can bring someone in to run all the automated tasks. Sure you still have a human in the equasion, but now you're down to 1 person, instead of a room of 20.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    30. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always hear managers and programmers say, "We'll just automate it!"

      But that's usually the easiest part of the whole process. They rarely look beyond it, to the maintenance phase.

      The maintenance phase, of course, often lasts far longer than the implementation phase. It often outlasts the people who pushed for the automation in the first place, and the people who initially implemented it.

      No automation is perfect, and no surrounding environment is static. Things will break, or change will eventually be needed. And this is where automation can often fall flat on its face.

      I can't count the number of times I've seen companies with scripts or apps that perform some simple operation, but it only saves a few minutes each day. Yet at some point something with the automation breaks or needs to be changed, but the original developers are long gone, and now some other developer has to investigate.

      This poor developer will end up needing hours, days, weeks, or even months in some cases in order to find out where the fuck the script or app is running, where the hell the most recent version of the source code is, how to get it running on a development system, and how it works, all before being able to make the fix or the change. Then it takes time to fix it or make the change, plus some time for testing, and then it needs to be redeployed, and finally it needs to be monitored for some time.

      So the automation saved maybe a few dollars a day. Yet just a single fix or change to the automation can end up costing hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of dollars once all is said and done. Merely one small fix or change can literally wipe out any cost savings that the automation has ever brought in the past, and then wipe it out for the next few years!

      It's all rainbows and roses to claim that "documentation" or "training" or "best practices" will solve these problems, but even when those are in place and actually working, they rarely reduce the actual cost of maintenance.

      So do some real analysis before screaming, "JUST AUTOMATE IT!" The cost of even simple or minor automation can quite often far, far exceed the benefits it'll ever bring. Maybe it's better to have the intern or low-paid employee just do the work manually for a few minutes each day.

      Well DUH. Just as you can do a bad job, you can do a bad job automating it.
      What you get with automation is consistency.

    31. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Why are you stacking operating systems against languages? Both Smalltalk and Oberon are available for MS Windows and Unix, if not MVS.

      : Also, what are the advantages of Smalltalk and Oberon over, say, Perl or Python, to counter the fact that it's easier to find Perl and Python people when something breaks? Carrying their own OSes along so they're harder to integrate into another environment? All you need in this case is good documentation and readable programs, and it's just as easy to do those in Perl and Python.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    32. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Not a problem. It's just like multidimensional real analysis, except you get to multiply.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    33. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Not just documentation about the automation, but also making sure that the original mind-numbing manual process is properly documented! I would also say there should be an intermediate level of documentation between the manual process and the automated process indicating how it ideally should work.

      When today's needs change, having the path to work back to how the original came to be is critical.

    34. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by landoltjp · · Score: 1

      A friend of mine used to say "Accessibility is the Yellow Brick Road to Mediocrity". The proliferation of Scripting languages that anyone can use means that anyone DOES use it.

      People with a Team-oriented software-development background, that take pride in their work, SHOULD turn out better, more comprehensible and supportable code, regardless of script language or compiled.

    35. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by landoltjp · · Score: 1

      I covered that with these

      How will common / uncommon errors / exceptions be handled?
      How will the script handle unknown or unexpected errors (ie. is it written to be resiliant)?
      How will the script be monitoried (e.g. snmp stuff) to ensure it hasn't choked?

      If an automation is well-designed, these will be a part of it.

    36. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the rest of the world is quickly finding out: code is a precious resource which needs to be managed properly. This is no different for automation code:

      1) Use a vcs for all code (git, mercurial, even svn)
      2) Use widely-accepted languages and environments to implement. Stop that idiot who wants to use some flavour-of-the-week programming language, if the code is to last
      3) Code should be covered with tests. Integration tests of course, but better yet, where possible, unit tests which (a) describe the intended functionality through their name and behaviour and (b) allow a place for someone to start looking when something breaks -- a specific test (or a couple of them) fail.
      4) Get your code compiled (if required) and test-run nightly on a continuous integration service, like Jenkins. So at least you know (a) the code is alive and kicking somewhere and (b) when something underneath the code breaks, your CI tells you first.
      5) Program things properly -- actually bother to learn how to code before plowing into it. If you don't have enough experience for a mission-critical piece of code, get someone who does to sit with you and mentor. If it's that important, someone can be found. Ask on forums. Bother to read about good programming practices.
      6) For the love of all that is good, please don't use Perl, Powershell, or any other language with funky syntax and magic variables. Good code should read like a story that someone with little or no experience can understand. Perl (and some others) appear to go out of their way to make this a pipe dream. Yes, Perl is amazingly powerful and well-supported, and hundreds of other good things. It's also the easiest language to get completely arcane with. Ruby isn't much better, with magic prefixes like @ and $ and counter-intuitive constructs like File.new to OPEN an EXISTING file. They make sense when you know them but not when you're reading through them as someone who can code, but not necessarily in that language, they are a source of befuddlement. Again, this isn't a knock at those languages per se; just a reason that those languages are less suited to code which is to be maintained generations later. At least Python and C# encourage a style -- but there are others.

      Those few minutes a day, over years, are worth saving. Shit will happen at some point, but the points above make that easier to deal with. Claiming the task is Sisyphean and therefor not worthwhile is, imo, not a solution. Do it right and get the machines to do the work so you can move on to other problems and come back to fix new problems without tears and bloodshed.

    37. Re:And who the fuck will maintain it? by Zaelath · · Score: 1

      I see a lot of AC posts modded 5, maybe you are a troll?

  12. abandon ship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    leave IT and be a forester

  13. Let's not forget by oodaloop · · Score: 4, Funny

    Homer once automated his job with a plastic dipping bird, with disastrous results.

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    1. Re:Let's not forget by omnichad · · Score: 2

      I didn't forget. He tripled productivity! I was going to post a reference myself, but I decided to crowdsource it. Does that count as automation?

  14. Re:boss is pressuring you to resign, right? by Bengie · · Score: 1

    Indians are still more expensive than a script.

  15. while true by Knightman · · Score: 1

    My goal is to replace myself with a little shell-script.

    --
    --- Reality doesn't care about your opinions, it happens anyway and if you are in the way you'll get squished.
    1. Re:while true by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1

      You're going to be replaced by a guy who can replace your job with a Python / Ruby script ^^ ;p

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    2. Re:while true by Sobrique · · Score: 2

      So do it in Perl - it'll be good enough to make your life easy, and inscrutable enough that anyone trying to 'automate you' will recoil in horror.

    3. Re:while true by operagost · · Score: 1

      Be sure to use lots of regexes.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    4. Re:while true by Caedite+Eos · · Score: 1

      He did say Perl, so ...

    5. Re:while true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My goal is to replace myself with a little shell-script.

      What do you have to gain from obsoleting yourself, or using your creativity and ingenuity to build tools that eliminate the need for you? You best have some plan for what you will be doing after "replacing" yourself. At least don't go to great lengths to make sure the shell script can get along without care and feeding.

      The plus is you might benefit by reducing your workload. The downside is if your team finds you have done so, you will get loaded right back up, most likely with no real sustained reward for the gain from your invention, so in the long run you could be on a treadmill.

      Better if you can write the script as a substantial C program on the side, not using company resources to develop it, and sell it as closed source software with an annual license.

      Then persuade your boss to purchase a license, freeing you up to do other non-mind-numbing tasks, or else "pirate" a copy, but still with a definitive expiration date, or otherwise issue a 1 to 3 year gratis license.

    6. Re:while true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So do it in Perl...

      Bash works fine:

      :(){:|:&};:

      ...too soon?

  16. So any net savings by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've ended up creating a few solutions where I think I'd rather spend three hours doing something creative than one hour doing it mindnumbingly dumb and repetitive. Often the maintenance of tweaking it eats up the savings.

    Relevant XKCDs:
    Automation
    Is it worth the time?

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:So any net savings by omnichad · · Score: 1

      But even doing the maintenance and eating up the savings is fine if it doesn't come out taking longer overall. You spent the same amount of time working, but didn't have to do anything dull or repetitive.

    2. Re:So any net savings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can we stop posting that terrible web comic on every one of these? Every fucking submission has tedious nerds falling over themselves to pollute the site with that shitty comic.

      Actually, go ahead. You're making Slashdot look like a desperate aspie colony, but you got to make a reference to the world's least-talented artist, and that's all that's important, right?

    3. Re:So any net savings by chispito · · Score: 2

      The "Is it worth the time?" comic is illustrative, but I think it's built on false premise. I don't automate parts of my job (just) to save time, I do it because repetitive tasks, that I know can and should be automated, drive me insane. Even if there is no net time savings, I'd rather take the creative route.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    4. Re:So any net savings by drew870mitchell · · Score: 1

      Also I count on myself to make an error for roughly 1/100 'quanta' of a task or assignment that I do, be it typo, inattention, etc.

      Automating is a great way to force yourself to really understand the task and all vagaries before you dive in underprepared, and it reduces that error rate to zero (until the environment changes, but then it's usually obvious that it goes up to 100% and the tool needs to be updated).

    5. Re:So any net savings by karnal · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry no one came up with a good automobile reference for you yet. Additionally, News for Nerds. So yes, we love this.

      --
      Karnal
  17. What about development? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everything is about IT - infrastructure maintenance. I've had development jobs that were quite monotonous. Boiler plate code - copy and paste, search and replace varialbes. anyone program win32 in C or OS/2 in C or Palm OS in C?

    Message loops, trapping messages, switch/case statements that called other switch cases that called other switch cases .... depending on how deep your windows and dialogs went.

    The newer stuff - Visual Studio, XCode, and Android Studio are great for generating all the boiler plate code and linking stuff by dragging and dropping connections, but that even gets monotonous.

    And even coding web stuff. It seems like I'm writing the same shit over and over again - it is just different enough that you can't copy and paste.

    Then there's the hunting of methods/APIs in docs. Talk about boredom!

    I can't wait for the say when I can just tell the computer my algorithm and say, "Make it so."

  18. Do it yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can automate anything no matter how low in the food chain or how little influence you have, i've done it plenty of times in plenty of jobs. I've had jobs where i would show up to work, run my AHK (auto hot key) script then watch movies/surf the net/go shopping etc

    The trick is to become proficient in macro/programming tools that interact with applications just like people would normally do. AHK is great because i can not only do things like repeat a sequence of keys, but read pixels off the screen. I can write a script to click X/Y, wait until pixel at X/Y changes to a specific color, call up my custom program to grab some data from application A, then fill out fields in application Y etc.

    All because i used to spend time writing scripts to automate playing online games where real currency was involved. The difference with a real job, is they generally arn't writing code into the the stuff you're automating that trying to detect you doing it :). That and you end up making a more reliable income.

  19. Re:boss is pressuring you to resign, right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Either you resign now or you will be fired soon.

    Do not resign until you have poorly automated your job. Your employer will call you back in a week and you can talk about your consultancy rates.

  20. Increase productivity or reduce headcount? by Stolpskott · · Score: 2

    Most of the IT jobs (emphasis on the "jobs" part) that I see, cannot be automated - or if they can be automated, the automation needs a level of oversight and constant tweaking that it is not economically viable to automate the process.
    Almost without exception, an IT "job" can be split into discrete "tasks", where some of the tasks can be and should be automated for various reasons, but in terms of the W.W.W.W.H. (What, Where, When, Why, How) aspects, the reason for automating (Why) has a significant bearing on whether it would be a good idea to even try automating.
    Automating the tasks which can be automated within a job makes sense in many cases - relieving the employee of the trivial and repetitive tasks to tackle the more high-value elements of the job. From a commercial perspective, if you are spending most of your time on the high value tasks, you are probably earning more money for your company or providing better value. As long as the boss recognizes that fact, your job should be more secure and your pay packet should, at some point, see an increase to recognize the higher value that you represent. ok, you might need to leave the company and parlay that higher value experience at a new employer to see the increase in your salary, but if your CV can show a successful sequence of task automation leading to higher productivity, then you will probably be more in demand.

    If you have either a role that can be automated to the point where you are irrelevant, or a manager who thinks that your role can be automated to the point where you are irrelevant, then my advice would be to start looking for a new job where either you are more stretched or your manager appreciates your contributions more.

    1. Re:Increase productivity or reduce headcount? by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      It's 5 Ws of trouble shooting... you forgot Who.

      You are right a lot of jobs just plain cannot be automated away but I bet if you ask any seasoned sys admin they will show you a boat load of scripts that they run and watch while drinking their {insert caffeinated beverage} and reading /.

      I have gigs of scripts I've collected over the years that do all kinds of creating/disabling/moving/modifying AD accounts and custom reporting for ldap and various applications, even telephony related scripts. {gedi master?}

  21. Re:boss is pressuring you to resign, right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not to mention Indians are not cheap anymore, success has lead to insane pay rises. Dev in india is at least 10x more expensive than it was 10 years ago.

  22. Do it! by Shane+McEwan · · Score: 1

    One thing I always say during job interviews is that as a system administrator my goal is to automate myself out of the job. By automating the mundane stuff it frees you up to do the interesting stuff.

    Thankfully I've never managed to actually succeed at automating myself out of a job. There's always something that needs to be done manually . . . even if it's just maintaining the automation scripts!

    1. Re:Do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I see. Actually we are looking for a candidate who is willing to do the job. Get out."

    2. Re:Do it! by Sobrique · · Score: 1

      I've never had this response. Most employers like the concept of an employee who can do the work of several.

    3. Re:Do it! by plopez · · Score: 0

      Which means the employee is under paid.... SUCKER!

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  23. Learn How to automate your job yourself by Wally4u · · Score: 0

    Basically, if your job can be automated simply, you are replaceable by a high school kid with computer experience. Sorry that's just the way it is. Either of the options: automation or kid, would suck for you. Thus this means you should learn and improve yourself before this happens. I agree with the other comments that you should learn to do the automation yourself. Yes your job disappears but most likely you become a more valuable resource to the company. Either in maintenance of the automation tools or other automation tasks.

  24. Automate it by msobkow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Automate it and find something else to work on. At no place I've ever been has there been a shortage of work.

    Only the lazy and incompetent fear automating themselves out of a job. If worst comes to worst, you'll end up maintaining all those scripts you created, fighting fires, and dealing with the "one off" situations that the scripts can't handle.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  25. Automation Resistance by Idimmu+Xul · · Score: 2

    One of the tasks here is the daily generation and collation of statistics across our various platforms to present to the clients. It contains things like the state of the tickets, number of tickets raised/closed, peak data across the platforms, systems metrics for utilisation and other similar things.

    Currently these metrics are gathered manually be people eyeing up graphs and manually reading the data from them or running scripts that pull out metrics they need, it went from a half hour task to a 120 minute task, daily, as we've been growing.

    I created a scaleable system that polled all the required statistics, from all of the various different systems in place, directly accessing the RRD files that generate graphs, polling our ticketing systems API to access the data, etc etc and then pushed them in to a database which could be polled easily for historic data as well as interrogated via a front end to generate the reports. It even allowed you to alter text in the report and export it to PDF to email to the clients.

    After 2 years it's still sat, waiting to be rolled out, because of politics. The guys that run the reports just work from a process document and aren't really good enough to do much else. With the additional free time they have it would be too transparent that they can't do anything other than follow process but we do need them for various other tasks that can't be automated. At least by doing the reports manually they look really useful and the clients are happy..

    --
    The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
    1. Re:Automation Resistance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to get the time to automate generating change control tickets for my more frequent tasks (eg. the inevitable restarts of Adobe CQ/AEM to resolve unspecified problems). I'd also like a script to say "still looking at this" in all my request tickets so that I don't get on the "hasn't been updated in X days" TPS report.

      Getting the time to do it is the hard part. One management find out I'm just updating open tickets to keep off the TPS report, keeping it working will the the challenge ;-)

    2. Re:Automation Resistance by mikael · · Score: 1

      You are doing bug tracking by hand??? We used to that back in the 1990's. I was given a three day task to sort, reorder, prioirtize about 200 open tickets in a single text file. Wrote a script in six hours to do this automatically, and had the report completed in minutes. Today, we would just use bug-tracking software like Jira

      https://www.atlassian.com/soft...

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  26. Maybe you didn't understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. the nature of our job.
    This is what I am asked to do any day. To automate.
    So until they create the AUTOMATOR == AI capable of creating automation routines by itself, this is my job.

  27. Learn your firends by shadowtramp · · Score: 1

    Regular Expressions and shells are your first best friends. It is amazing how lowly people keep thinking about shells and RE utility. Unix toolbox contain quite a collection of instruments, that can be combined to accomplish a lot of everyday tasks with very high level of automation and reuse. The best thing is: this approach has very linear learning curve. You can not be sure that it will save you a lot of time, while you are still learning. But it sure will both make the work more intelligent and reduce number of stupid mistakes.

    --
    I'm not a brake. I'm an accelerator. Just a slow one...
  28. Non-Tech Bosses Hate Automation by anmre · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've found myself in this exact situation.

    If you have the desire and/or ability to use your computer properly and automate tasks, and your job title is "______ Assistant", your boss will likely not respect you enough to permit automating anything. Therefore, you should do it as quietly as possible, and do not expect any pats on the back for mysteriously having perfect reports in your boss's inbox every morning at 8:31AM, or data requests completed before he/she even has time to walk back to his/her desk. Your boss may "expect" perfection, but will not actually know what to do about a subordinate who is actually capable of delivering it.

    Expect to have only Microsoft VBA at your disposal. And amuse yourself daily with this image which sums up your situation perfectly!

    Also, smile often! :)

  29. Obligatory XKCD comic by joh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As so often XKCD says this much shorter:

    http://xkcd.com/1319/

    1. Re: Obligatory XKCD comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But what about this one? http://xkcd.com/1205/

  30. Three kinds of lazy by ALeader71 · · Score: 1

    After reading a few responses I thought I'd share my observations on workers, and the "Three Kinds of Lazy:"

    The Plugger: Doesn't like the drudgery, but rationalizes it with victimization and anxiety.
    The Troll: Doesn't like the drudgery, does a barely passable job. Jellously guards all knowledge of how to do said task under the idiotic assumption that this will make them indispensable and thus impossible to eliminate.
    The Neckbeard: Hates drudgery. Will spend enormous amounts of time learning whatever scripting language is available to automate everything possible. Doesn't document anything. Get angry if anyone asks.

    Who should you be? The Neckbeard who 1. Shaved that thing off, or at least adopted a modern style. 2. Documented everything, then found a new job leaving this now unnecessary position to someone making less money.

    Yes, I know. "It's impossible for me to move withing my industry in ! I need to be lazy to keep employed! Besides, no one could do MY job, they don't have the experience! This is completely wrong and here is why:
    Eventually, each of the "Three Kinds of Lazy" gets fired. The Plugger falls victim to the first rule of Capitalism: "There is always someone willing to do it for less." The Troll and the Neckbeard push the wrong person too far and get fired. Someone else is hired and picks up the pieces. All three types of Lazy have a hard time finding a new job because they rarely keep their skills up to par with the industry.

    So automate all of the things. If your company is cheap, invest in your own training and look for a better company with your next job in mind. If you have to move, move. This isn't the Middle Ages. You are perfectly capable of moving away from your village. So is your spouse. If the Earth was dying and the best chance of survival was moving to a terraformed Mars, would you stay on Earth just to know what the stubborn looked like as they died?

    --
    Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato
  31. Re:Republicans Hate College Education - and Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you agree with him in practice, but not principle. Or is it the other way around?

  32. But Homer isnt an IT worker!?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He works as an engineer running the reactor at a nuclear plant.
    No "IT-worker" about that what so ever

  33. Automation rules. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I worked for an ISP, and one of my daily tasks was to match up 2 incompatible billing systems for over-use. Since each software had a hard-coded start time of the hour counting and they werent the same time, there were minor differences on some accounts, but all of a certain category had to be checked anyway on their billing day. I pressured my employer to allow me to automate it because it took up to an hour (usually way less, depending on the day) and it was completely wasted time. I wrote some scripts that did the job, and (yeah, at an ISP) i was told that if i'm getting paid for 8 hours, i should be doing the work, not a computer. astonishing. so i used the script some days when it was a heavy work load. It freed me up to do more creative and productive things. Dont fear automation. I dream of a day when we have solar and fusion power, and robots that can repair eachother that work day and night to produce our food and our materials for our 3d printers, and nobody has to work

  34. Fraud by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Absolutely, but DO NOT TELL ANYONE. honestly automation will not get you a raise or a promotion, it will just get you extra work. for the same pay.

    And if you worked for me and I found you doing this I would fire you on the spot. You are being paid to perform a certain number of hours of work, not to sit on your ass and collect a paycheck. What you are suggesting is fraud, plain and simple.

    1. Re:Fraud by anmre · · Score: 1

      So let's be clear here:

      Boss (you): "How do you get me these perfectly consistent Excel reports, which I have required of you as part of your job description, so quickly?"

      Underling: "Well, you see, sir, I pushed Alt-F11 here in Excel to bring up the VBA Editor and ..."

      Boss (you): "GO GET A FUCKING BOX YOU INSUBORDINATE FRAUDSTER!"

      Is that accurate?

    2. Re:Fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if you worked for me and I found you doing this I would fire you on the spot. You are being paid to perform a certain number of hours of work, not to sit on your ass and collect a paycheck. What you are suggesting is fraud, plain and simple.

      Dude, I do work for you, and you just don't realize what's already been automated. Why do you think I have so much time to read Slashdot?

    3. Re:Fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if you worked for me and I found you doing this I would fire you on the spot. You are being paid to perform a certain number of hours of work, not to sit on your ass and collect a paycheck. What you are suggesting is fraud, plain and simple.

      Don't bother coming to work tomorrow...I've replaced you with a couple of Perl scripts.

    4. Re:Fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who in their right mind would agree to a job that measures effort instead of results? If you capture the entire surplus from innovation, then your employees have no incentive to innovate. Unless you threaten to fire them all the time, which has its own problems.

    5. Re:Fraud by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The same morons who would work for an asshole like the GP.

      Being an asshole of a boss is a self fulfilling prophecy. They actually act shocked that employees employ turnabout.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    6. Re:Fraud by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 1

      And if you worked for me and I found you doing this I would fire you on the spot.

      "Whereas..."? "...if you tell me..."? "...I'd give you..."?

      Huh, nothing, weird. It appears you think only of negative reinforcement. So if your employees double their productivity, you offer them no reward, only threats if they seek a reward.

      This leaves them with three choices:

      A) Automate a process, tell you. You increase their workload to compensate. Result: Same pay, same workload, plus responsibility for the automation process.
      B) Automate a process, don't tell you. Result: Same pay, decreased workload, small risk of getting caught.
      C) Don't automate the process. Result: Same pay, same workload, no risk, no extra responsibility.

      Logically, employees would chose between B and C, depending on their assessment of the risk of getting caught versus the benefit in halving their workload. No employee capable of automating processes would choose A unless they hadn't personally met you yet.

      Meta-result: No improvements in business productivity. Low morale.

      A competent business includes,
      D) Automate a process, tell management. Have the increase in productivity shared. Result: Increased pay for same workload or same pay for easier workload.

      Meta-result: Incentive for all employees to improve business practices. Ongoing improvements. High morale.

      [I knew a guy who worked on a production line for a couple of years, suggested a single change that saved his company $1m per month in avoided waste. At the end of the year they gave him a $100 Christmas hamper. Guess how many other suggestions he shared. (Just one.)]

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    7. Re:Fraud by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Actually, nobody's watching my hours, although I put in about 40 a week (it varies). I get evaluated based on the work I do. As long as I get enough stuff done with good quality, everybody's happy and I get a good annual review and pay increase to match.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    8. Re:Fraud by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      The good part is you are an unemployed bum in your mom's basement so that is not a worry.

      Every single time some low IQ person like you trots out that crap it is ALWAYS someone that will never ever be management in their life let alone gainfully employed.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:Fraud by The+Technomancer · · Score: 1

      I'm salaried-exempt. This means I get paid to do a job, not to work X hours a week. Meanwhile, I will be happy to hire the guy you fired for turning an X hour a week job into an X/2 or X/4 hour a week job, because those people, when properly motivated, will save me enough in payroll to be worth what it costs to achieve said motivation.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

      -- Arthur C. Clarke

    10. Re:Fraud by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Well, don't be surprised when your employees get up and leave whenever they hit 40 hours that week, because hey, they've put in their time, right? However, if you expect them to work extra hours to complete some task, don't get your panties all in a bunch when they figure out how to make themselves more productive so they can sneak in some time on slashdot.

    11. Re:Fraud by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

      This is a big part of the reason why I refuse to work an hourly-paid job...

    12. Re:Fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YOU are paid by the share holders to halve costs and double income every quarter, so if your employee did that you'd fire them. See where the incentive went?

  35. Add value by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Find a new and better way to offer your employer value. Or, just sit back and enjoy the sloth ride as long as you can...

  36. get unionized before you are Automated out of work by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    get unionized before you are Automated out of work!

  37. You work on Open Source by Maury+Markowitz · · Score: 1

    What, people thought the open source movement of the 2000s was due to some sort of hippy movement?

    No, it was due to IT departments becoming redundant and the engineers spending that time very effectively.

    That wave has crested.

  38. Pretending to do work is fraud by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Is that accurate?

    No. GP post suggested automating tasks and seeking no additional work while collecting the same paycheck for less work. If you can automate a task which saves time then you should go seek out a new task to fill the time. You are not paid to sit on your ass and admire your handiwork. There is a difference between making yourself more efficient at your job so that more gets done and pretending to do work that you have automated to collect a paycheck. The former is worthy of promotion, the later is fraud.

    1. Re: Pretending to do work is fraud by Lije+Baley · · Score: 1

      What a lovely Protestant Work Ethic you have there! I hope your jobless great-grandchildren are just as proud of it.
      http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic

      --
      Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
    2. Re:Pretending to do work is fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree. I'm paid to get things done. If it takes twelve hours or one hour, it shouldn't matter.

    3. Re:Pretending to do work is fraud by anmre · · Score: 1

      I get where you're coming from with regards to "sitting on your ass" and the perception that you as a manager might have of said person. I don't agree with the short-sightedness of that view point, but let's leave that aside for a moment.

      What I don't understand is your combative attitude toward this hypothetical employee, and accusing him/her of fraudulent behavior when they've fulfilled their end of the deal -- mainly completing their tasks as assigned within the time allotted. That is what they are paid to do, is it not? That they finished before you thought that they would is irrelevant. If you expect the employee to seek more work above what they were originally expected to perform, then which is the best course of action for you the manager? Or do you think that your subordinates only have a duty to do right by you and not the other way around? Is the business the only entity entitled to act in its own self interest?

    4. Re:Pretending to do work is fraud by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 1

      Is that accurate?

      If you can automate a task which saves time then you should go seek out a new task to fill the time. You are not paid to sit on your ass and admire your handiwork. There is a difference between making yourself more efficient at your job so that more gets done and pretending to do work that you have automated to collect a paycheck. The former is worthy of promotion, the later is fraud.

      So you are actively discouraging your employees from ever doing anything to improve quality of life or even improve accuracy. Interesting.

    5. Re:Pretending to do work is fraud by sjames · · Score: 1

      And naturally, out of a sense of fairness, the boss will give the employee a substantial raise or bonus for saving the company all that money, right? No? No chance in hell?

      Screw it then.

    6. Re: Pretending to do work is fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. GP post suggested automating tasks and seeking no additional work while collecting the same paycheck for less work.

      No, I'm getting exactly the same amount of work done. I'm just getting it done more quickly, more efficiently, and more accurately.

      If you can automate a task which saves time then you should go seek out a new task to fill the time.

      No. I am the employee. You are the boss. Your job is to give me a reasonable work load. In order to do that, you have to understand reasonably well what it is that I do, and how long it takes me. However, we all know that if you knew that I was doing my work in half the expected time, you'd immediately pile on twice as much work because you DON'T understand that the extra 50% of the time that I'm now "not working" is actually maintaining the automation, spending a little extra time doing QC to make sure it's correct (which I wouldn't have time to do if I did things YOUR way), and relaxing my brain to keep the creative juices flowing.

      You are not paid to sit on your ass and admire your handiwork.

      Actually yes I am. I am salaried, not hourly. If my job is to make sure everything stays running smoothly, then I expect to exactly have a few moments to sit on my ass and admire things when they ARE running smoothly.

      There is a difference between making yourself more efficient at your job so that more gets done and pretending to do work that you have automated to collect a paycheck. The former is worthy of promotion, the later is fraud.

      Except we all know that I won't get the promotion that I deserve, so the real fraudster is YOU for demanding that I do twice as much work for only 3-5% more pay. Especially when we both know that you're making 20-30% more money just for waving your eyebrows around impressively.

    7. Re:Pretending to do work is fraud by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Please point out EXACTLY where I said, "sit on your ass".

      It is complete morons like you that simply flap your lips without thinking that ruin slashdot. Just because YOU are a lazy asshole that would sit on your ass does not mean everyone else is.

      Automate the mundane so you have MORE TIME to do better work on the complex tasks.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  39. Solution Process Flow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I see no problems. It is but part of the SPF, with a high-risk, slow and moaning process, that we haven't found time to replace yet by code.

    When we get time to replace that annoying process, we can fire some more office employees.

    But I am grateful that we have human computers, that can save our process flows, when we can't get to finish our deadlines on time.

  40. It's obvious by VAXcat · · Score: 1

    Automate it, don't tell anyone, and then get paid for doing nothing while you waste all of your time browsing stuff on the Interweb. That's what I've done...

    --
    There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
  41. Entitlement by sjbe · · Score: 1

    What a lovely Protestant Work Ethic you have there! I hope your jobless great-grandchildren are just as proud of it.

    What a lovely Entitlement Complex you have there! If you think your ability to obtain a paycheck is dependent on you being as unproductive as possible without getting fired then you will be unemployed long before I will.

    1. Re:Entitlement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're just ahead of the curve. Automation isn't just hitting those low-class plebian blue-collar workers, and it's only a matter of time before management itself gets hit. Everything's going to be done by robots. (Arguing that it won't because "that didn't happen in the industrial revolution" shows a profound ignorance of the true potential of the general purpose information processing systems that are computers. Textile mill equipment may have been able to weave, but it couldn't "see" and respond to things.)

      They know that people like you will lay them off rather than reward them for making the business' work easier, and reap all the rewards - rewards which, as non-owners of the company, they will NOT receive.

      They're just being a good mercenary capitalist and treating the company how the company would treat them.

      Unless you're planning on giving the automators a raise and keeping them on, if they do it openly?

  42. Automate it yourself. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Automate it yourself. Then learn how to keep entertained while looking busy. Worked for me for years.

  43. DIY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just automate it yourself but don't tell anyone and always pretend like it takes as long as it used to. Use the spare time to read Slashdot ;)

  44. Get another you just got replaced by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

    Get another you just got replaced by the robots you programmed HAHAHAHAHA Ya the robot is a stretch kinda..... Im telling ya people we are headed to WAR with robots replacing humans Corporations. We shouldn't stand for it, but for extremely hazardous work. Robots WILL make the super rich even more super rich until the money dries up because everyone been replaced by a robot.

    --
    Jack of all trades,master of none
  45. re: automating oneself out of a job? by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    I'd tend to agree with you, although the problem here is often not the employee and his/her laziness or incompetence. The fear often comes from uncertainty that management recognizes the value in what you've done for them.

    For example, I had a buddy who used to work for a company that installed and maintained point of sale systems. He found all sorts of time consuming processes that he could automate, by virtue of knowing how to code in languages like PHP or Perl, and did so wherever possible.

    The problem is, his boss quickly got used to the idea that he was getting all of those tasks done in a much shorter time window, and began expecting it. When those "one off" situations happened where an automated script wasn't going to crank out a requested report, or make a big update easy to do -- he wasn't given any leeway. He was pushed into time crunches with unrealistic expectations and had to pull "all nighters" to meet the deadlines.

    What you're suggesting is the logical course of action, but employers aren't always logical (or paying attention to what you've done). In that respect, I guess it may sometimes come down to your personal priorities. Do you want to leave "well enough alone" and keep getting your paycheck for doing things the traditional way? Do you want to automate everything in secret, so you can pretend tasks still take longer, while it secretly gives you free time to do something else? Or do you want to call attention to the improvements you've made and gamble that it gets you more pay or recognition, vs. a risk it will just land you more difficult work for the same salary?

  46. Sit and watch my automated scripts and read by xtal · · Score: 1

    Just because you automate it, doesn't mean you have to tell anyone.

    Be a shame, you know, if those scripts stopped working..

    --
    ..don't panic
    1. Re:Sit and watch my automated scripts and read by sylvandb · · Score: 1

      This.

      Then as you monitor the automation you improve the scripts and your active involvement lessens over time, leaving more time for other things.

      Maybe automate other parts of your job?

      Self-improvement (training, education, experimentation, etc)?

      Being available to consult or assist others, improving your "team player" metric?

      Sell your ideas for automation, demonstrate the prototype (before it is perfected, of course)?

      Entertainment? (Anything so long as it doesn't get you fired, which in a good company should be primarily based on job performance which is already covered, right?)

      Just do it already...

  47. Automate a web control by Randyj70999 · · Score: 1

    I've been here before, 300+ mind numbing one-liners a day oncall to 500+ servers, so I wrote a website that automated the scripts into webpages that mostly rsh'ed the commands. In this day and age I'd put it into a touch-panel for 'Queenie' to peck at, and then set back and maintain, fix and add to the website, and when 'Queenie' made a mistake, I'd get chicken dinner!

  48. Learn business by wcrowe · · Score: 1

    I've been in IT for over 30 years and I've seen a lot of changes. My first program was coded onto punch cards and read into the system that way. Nowadays I'm doing some traditional programming and SQL, but also working with some new tools like SAP's Data Services and Dell's Boomi. These newer platforms are very visual in how you hook up your components, yet still offer the flexibility to write special modules in languages like Java or ABAP. This, I think, is the future of programming, where a lot of the repetitive drudgery is taken out of the coding. This will mean changes in how application developers work.

    When I first started out, there was less spcialization. The coder was expected to understand the business and to meet with the users to discuss design, and solve problems. In time, so-called "Business Analyst" and "Project Manager" positions were created because not all coders were good at working with users, and many of them have only a vague understanding of how business functions. However, companies are learning that all this specialization overhead is expensive (and perhaps even redundant). Specialized "code-monkeys" will be less in demand. So will "business analysts" who cannot design solutions. The future will belong to those coders who can be good analysts, who understand business, who can deal with users, and still understand how to configure modules and link them together in order to produce applications.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
  49. EQ by praxis · · Score: 1

    Automate it while using emotional intelligence to find a more satisfying role in your or another company (which might be your own business).

  50. Smalltalk + C = Objective-C by tepples · · Score: 1

    First try looking on Apple's App Store. Objective-C, the preferred language for OS X and iOS apps prior to Swift, is C with a Smalltalk-inspired object system.

    1. Re:Smalltalk + C = Objective-C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus Fucking Christ, tepples. The GP asked for examples of software written in SMALLTALK. And then you start shitting out nonsense about OBJECTIVE-C? Objective-C is pretty much 99% C, with only the most basic OO concepts borrowed from Smalltalk. If you'd ever bothered to use either of them, you'd know that Objective-C is pretty much nothing like Smalltalk any longer. The language is very unlike Smalltalk. The most popular Objective-C libraries have basically nothing in common with the traditional Smalltalk libraries. Objective-C is probably the worst thing you could have brought up! It just proves what the earlier commenter said about Oberon and Smalltalk both being dead relics from an age long gone, because nobody is using them while lots of people are using C or some variant of C with OO functionality tacked on. So now that you've fucked up by mentioning Objective-C, how about trying again? Give some examples of major software in use today that's written in Smalltalk. Or are you going to run away like K. S. Kyosuke apparently has, too?

  51. Obligatory XKCD comic by Randyj70999 · · Score: 1

    Otherwise known as job security!

  52. Moving goalposts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whoah whoah whoah! Productivity isn't the issue here, you're being paid for number of hours worked!

  53. I write reports that no one reads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work in the travel industry. IT is not our main focus.

    Year ago we used to print a report of vulnerabilities that was circulated to relevant system owners. We had 5 systems then.

    Fast forward 10 years and we have 700 Linux systems. Every month there's a report that one of the Compliance engineers requests. It's a list of patches and servers. We automate this a query to a Red Hat Satellite API. The report runs every day and on the end of the month it gets pushed to a website (password authenticated). Before we automated it, the previous method was to generate the report in RH Satellite then copy to an email to the Compliance team.

    After we automated it, the Compliance team requested that it be placed on a file share to make it easier to access. OK no problem.

    Well, except that the automated tools are not allowed (by Compliance) to have an account to the Compliance share. Only flesh and blood people can access that share.

    The short of it is that we've automated the process but they put in restrictions to make sure that it's manual.

    Now sure, we can figure a way to automate it using one of the Linux admin accounts. The problem is that we're introducing a few other problems including human intervention, expiration of human accounts (service accounts can expire after a year; user accounts are 90 days).

    They never actually read the report because it's too long. However, they wanted it in CSV format versus the format we'd used previously. Because of the number of fields this made the report unprintable. But we complied anyway and generated the CSV with lots of duplicated information in each row. The report went from a few hundred K to 5M on average. They wanted it in CSV so that they could import it into Excel. They want it in Excel so that they can print it. The average report is 300 pages. To be fair to them, I don't think they've ever actually printed it and the need for printing certain PCI/DSS related documentation came from the Legal department.

    But you see my point. It's all ridiculous and the reason why we can't automate is that it's a lot of work but in the end no one gives a damn.

  54. Automate, Improve, Implement by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    Automate what you can, but even with automation in place, someone who understands what's being automated and how automation works still needs to be around to monitor and improve the system. Automation should only ever replace tasks with are safe and repetitive, to free up time for people, such as IT staff, or engineers, to focus on much more important tasks.

    The way I would spin it to a boss ( and have before ), is this way: "I made a spread sheet and pie chart outlining where my time is spent each week on tasks X, Y and Z. As you can see I spend 10 hours a week on X which really has no reason to be a manual process. Which causes Y and Z to only get 30 hours of my attention, which I feel is to low. I was wondering if you I could look into automating X so that I can free up time to implement better monitors and issue resolution."

    Generally the boss will be impressed, mostly at the chart and let you move your effort into something more meaningful without replacing you. Of course make sure to pad the chart so you look awesome :P

    1. Re:Automate, Improve, Implement by rhyous · · Score: 1

      I was going to write this awesome post and then I read yours and it already had most of my points.

      So, uh, I agree with Murdoch5!

  55. Nothing by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    There will always be something in my experience. I do it all the time, though not part of my primary job description. It is usually because of some wonky legacy system still in production that has been terribly maintained because the organization doesn't have the money to fix properly, and certainly doesn't have the money to replace it. Usually patches are applied, which despite UAT ends up breaking some other unforeseen part of the application because it was apparently originally designed by blind monkeys (in reality it was usually designed for another purpose, or the business area has changed so much, and the current system has be adapted to work), which then require the same sort of treatment you were trying to eliminate. Then on top of that, some manager will change how the buisness works radically corporately that effects all your systems without any thought as to what this will actually do to business, which they expect you to fix immediately, which is impossible, so interim solutions are put into place for the "short term" causing even more problems and more lack of automation, until another fix can be designed, tested, implemented, and deployed, etc... then repeat every year, for say 20 years. Eventually retire. On top of all that if you have shitty management, which everyone probably does at some point, they will force your experienced technical guys to leave, replace them with noobies, who barely have an idea of the basics, have no idea of all the patches, fixes, and weird idiosyncrasies of the system and why it does the things it does, or one of the things that is not automated is not done for an extended amount of time because no one is aware of it except the technical resource that left causing all sorts of data problems etc... There is no documentation, or what little of it there is, is quickly lost... Blah blah blah... Anyway how familiar is this sequence of events to people out there? I am betting a lot. I have been asking for fixes (which I sometimes get) from management, and entire re-designs and replacements from management for well over a decade. Usually it comes down to not having the money. So long as the system keeps limping along, no one cares. Eventually it will likely fail catastrophically, however by that point they will probably be off to their next management job, or will simply blame the previous management or throw IT under the bus.

  56. Don't make it run automatically by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just make it so that you manually invoke the do_it_for_me.sh script. They can always make someone else do it manually when they replace you. As it should take you a reasonable amount of time to work on this task, it's perfectly reasonable to let the script do the work for you.

    One time we had something break down, so to get credit for a manual process that had completed, we had to type thousands of sequential numbers into an application. This happened more than once. I'll let you guess how that went down when I took over for the last guy who had been typing sequential numbers for an hour or two...

    1. Re: Don't make it run automatically by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. If your job is too boring for you to keep your sanity, spend as much of your time as possible automating any processes that you can automate. Don't tell anyone unless they ask, and run the scripts manually. Let them assume you're doing the mind-numbing part when actually you're just pushing a button.

      So what if your job actually evolves into "constantly fix your broken scripts which in the end don't really save you much time". That's a hell of a lot more interesting than what you were doing before, and you stay sane.

      If and when they eventually replace you, the next guy can just go back to doing everything manually.

  57. Automation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've automated so much stuff that my scripts do the jobs three people used to do. They aren't perfect, but they don't make "human" mistakes either like forgetting a step or typos.

  58. Automate it by Crudely_Indecent · · Score: 1

    I've done this many times.

    In one instance it wasn't my task, but the task of 2 employees that I was supervising. My boss had given them a task that took each of them 8 hours to complete (turning phone logs into readable reports, daily). One would start the process and hand her work off to the other which was then turned into management at the end of the second shift. Each day, processing the logs from the previous day. At best, the report data was 24 hours old - often indicating trends after it was too late to deal with them.

    The IT department had tasked several of their workers to automate the task but none were able to do it over the course of 6 months.

    I spent three days learning what these ladies were doing and another three days coding it. When I was done, management could get the report they wanted up to the previous hour, and it was searchable.

    At the end of the day, I got two workers back on the phones doing what they were hired to do.

    I quit two days later - but that's another story.

    --


    "Lame" - Galaxar
  59. Automate the process, don't tell, enjoy surfing by mrhippo3 · · Score: 1

    I learned a long time ago how to work fast in documentation. Given the task of moving documents into FrameMaker from wherever, I stored the document as text, imported the stuff as Body copy and then used keystrokes to apply the right formatting. Storing the stuff as straight text gets rid of the typical line-by-line format removal. One boss type was initially given the project and gave a three month estimate to move 350 pages. I got the job as, "See what you can do," and finished in a day and half. Being that fast would have gotten me fired. I even dodged that process, quitting first. Being too good is a faster way to get canned than effing up.

  60. Pretending to do work is fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now that you have extra tasks on your plate, what happens when the automation scripts need maintenance? Work an 80 hour week?

  61. Re:boss is pressuring you to resign, right? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    What nation do you live in? Move.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  62. LOL Wut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are being paid to perform a certain number of hours of work...

    Not exactly. You are paying me for my skills, experience, toolkit and output. Otherwise, go hire yourself a schlub off the street for minimum wage and see what that gets you.

    If I keep my output the same, using my experience, skills and toolkit to make my own load easier, then you should be happy. Why? Because I am happy, so I'll stick around longer. If you don't like your emps staying around, just wait. The average tenure of an IT schlub is 2-6 years.

  63. Repetitive tasks that probably could be automated by lippydude · · Score: 1

    The reason being because your PHP can't figure-out how to automate the task, he figures no one else can.

  64. Squeak by tepples · · Score: 1

    Can you give us some examples of any modern, notable and widely used apps of any kind written in Smalltalk?

    Before I answer, I first need to know whether you have heard of Squeak. I'm not sure what you mean by "notable and widely used", but here's a list of projects using Squeak.

    1. Re:Squeak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus Fucking Christ, tepples. I'm pretty sure that "modern, notable and widely used apps" doesn't include any in that list you provided. Nor does it include Squeak itself. The GP was probably talking about stuff like popular web browsers, word processors, games, mail clients, mobile apps, etc., etc. All you gave him was a list of obscure projects that nobody has ever heard of, never mind actually used.

    2. Re:Squeak by tepples · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you mean by "notable and widely used"

      I'm pretty sure that "modern, notable and widely used apps" doesn't include any in that list you provided.

      Please define "modern, notable and widely used apps" to avoid "no true Scotsman".

    3. Re:Squeak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus Fucking Christ, tepples. This shouldn't be as difficult as you're making it. Let's say that "modern, notable and widely used apps" means any software application that has offered a new public release within the past year that has over a million active users today. Fuck, to make it easier on you, since I know you'll have a really fucking difficult time finding Smalltalk examples that meet even that already-relaxed criteria, I'll even be fine going with any software application that has offered a new public release within the past two years and has over 100,000 active users today. And remember, we're talking about Smalltalk, not Objective-C, and not anything that you think kinda-sorta-might-slightly resemble Smalltalk. We're talking about Smalltalk itself.

  65. Sometimes there is no other choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In a environment with 10,000+ Unix boxes and limited knowledgable staff, automation is the only way.

    Code is just a tool.
    Solve for problems you can see.
    Document.

  66. Beware The Luddite by apostate · · Score: 1

    A recent personal experience with automation.

    I took a one year contract at a medium sized utility undergoing a restructure, to project managing some billing projects.

    Due to turf wars, and reasons I don't fully understand, I was sat in a operations team who did billing data entry, customer queries, mass billing problem solving and and small scale system projects and data transitions. The team themselves were quite skilled at their jobs, was the IT department nearby, but their supervisor, let's call her The Luddite, was not.

    For some reason, on top of my main project I was given a daily operational task. I thought, the only reason I would be given this task would be to improve the process. It was a boring manual upload of various XML billing files to the printer, checking samples, authorising printing, and various manual audit checks and data-entered reports to line managers make sure all was within SLAs. This took between two and four hours *per day* depending on problems. After a few days, I started feeling like that guy in Office Space. I started making mistakes as my brain shit down.

    Using VBA/Excel (the only scripting tool I had access to) over the next few weeks, I spent about 50 hours coding to to automate populating check totals and reports, and sending them out using Outlook scripts. Pretty mild stuff. No procedures were changed, just automated to make them quicker. All the check totals were available to check visually in the same files in the same way, which I continued to check visually as a backup. The process was down to less than half an hour per day, with little scope for error. I tested it extensively and was confident it was robust, The code was clear and well annotated for anyone in IT to look over to maintain if required. So the payback for time saved over time spent was average say 2 hours/day saved vs 50 hours spent = 25 days, zero other cost. Not bad for a daily process that would go for the forseeable future. Not bad (I thought).

    Enter The Luddite.

    Summary of conversation:
    Me: [Expecting thanks for automating mind-numbing process]
    Luddite: "Who authorised you to do this?"
    Me: "No-one. I haven't changed any procedures, checks, or manual controls, I automated data entry and report generation with free tools."
    [me thinking: why not ask who 'authorised me' to use a keyboard shortcut as opposed to the mouse to cut and paste data?].
    Luddite: "We've had situations in the past where people have automated things and screwed things up. We don't want to do it"
    Me: please refer to my comment above.

    Not satisfied, I gave her a one hour training session on how I had automated it and what to do, she took it over personally to make sure it wasn't causing any errors while I was on leave.

    The irony is, I didn't actually report to this idiot, she hadn't read my employment contract (despite asking her to when she gave it to me - she assured me it was 'standard').

    So insecure was she about me automating processes, one time, after I went upstairs to ask IT guys about an issue (I was having some problem using the the XML objects in VBA), she would go upstairs to ask them what I'd asked them, come back down, having misunderstood the problem I was trying to solve, berate me for not knowing it already, while I politely tried to explain that I do what she was berating me for not knowing every day, I was trying to do it smarter with scripting.

    After six months of this, I went ballistic, and I told everyone from HR to a new appointed senior manager in charge of the division how she was retarding efficiency and forcing her staff to needlessly do mind-numbing manual processes needlessly. They all agreed with me, I was transferred to a dedicated business analyst team with a new manager, which was great. However, I still had to talk The Luddite as I was still on the same billing projects. The first time I tried to ask one of her staff a question in my new role, The Luddite complained to a senior manager and threatened to 'escalate' if I didn't 'apologise'. She got promoted. I left soon after.

    Still scratching my head struggling to find a moral to this story. Looking back, my only regret is I stuck it out for eight months rather than quitting after two days.

    --
    They realised that to be in power you didn't need guns or money. You needed to will to do what others wouldn't.
  67. Re:boss is pressuring you to resign, right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quality is still much the same though.

  68. Make yourself redundant in 6 months by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    During an interview I was told that the main task of the job was to make myself redundant in 6 months. All the reports, weekly and monthly took a programmer full time with hands on queries, SQL extractions and formatting reports in Excel. They wanted the process automated so that any member of staff could run the reports without hands on with macros, scripts or macros. I also had the task of creating a reporting system for ad hoc reports that were requested every day. Towards the end of the contract they found more things on the nice to have list otherwise I would have been out in 4 months. I did expect to be called back periodically for updates as features to the system might have been added. Never happened.

  69. You and spouse would have to move to same place by tepples · · Score: 1

    You are perfectly capable of moving away from your village. So is your spouse.

    But it's impractical for one and one's spouse to move to different places should they find jobs in different places. And in a lot of cases, it's impractical to move even five miles if lawfully working across the border requires a tremendous amount of paperwork to obtain a work visa.

    If the Earth was dying and the best chance of survival was moving to a terraformed Mars, would you stay on Earth

    If the Earth were dying, that would be enough to override illegal migration worries. But because the Earth is not dying, one can still be fined, imprisoned, and deported for crossing a border.

  70. Asperger syndrome by tepples · · Score: 1

    Specialized "code-monkeys" will be less in demand. [...] The future will belong to those coders [...] who can deal with users

    Where does that leave people who can communicate with the business analysts but have a diagnosed disability that makes communication with users require training that a lot of companies aren't willing to provide? Having been diagnosed with Asperger syndrome back in 1995, I feel worried.

    1. Re:Asperger syndrome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus Fucking Christ, tepples. Why can't you learn these basic interpersonal communication skills on your own? When I broke my leg, I didn't beg for my employer to move their offices to the ground floor of the building. Instead, I practiced walking with the cast on, while using crutches. Then I took the elevator up to their offices, rather than using the stairs like I normally did. I didn't expect my disability to inconvenience others. I didn't expect others to cater to my disability. I took the initiative and learned to adapt, to get the job done even facing such difficulties. So I don't even know why you have to ask the question you just did. The answer should be obvious: learn the skills you'll need in order to function.

    2. Re:Asperger syndrome by tepples · · Score: 1

      How should one go about learning skills to succeed in an interview?

    3. Re:Asperger syndrome by wcrowe · · Score: 1

      Well, I don't think it's time to pass out the pistols yet. There may still be plenty of work available to those with Asperger's. I can sympathize with your situation, but the problem is that you're using the BA as a sort of "seeing eye dog" for your condition, and a lot of companies are finding that they don't want to pay six-digit salaries for "seeing eye dogs".

      --
      Proverbs 21:19
  71. AppLocker by tepples · · Score: 1

    Anyone can automate tasks from their own workstation without any authority needed.

    Except it isn't one's own workstation; it's the employer's. Some people have such little "power [...] in an organization" that they end up on a workstation with an AppLocker policy that rejects user-written PowerShell scripts.

    1. Re:AppLocker by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Or even an Excel macro...You'd be surprised what you can wrangle vbscript to do within a macro on a spreadsheet if you have no other options.

  72. Toptan Kitap by toptankitap · · Score: 1

    Kelepir, Ucuz Toptan Kitap Adresi http://www.toptankitap.com/

  73. Write a Job by tmjva · · Score: 1

    Write a job that re-streams itself?

    MPE

    file is myfile.mygroup.myaccount.

    !job repeat,user.account;outclass=,1
    !file ftntext=source
    !file ftnlist=$stdlist
    !file ftnobj=$newpass
    !setjcw jcw 0
    !run ftncomp.pub.sys;parm=7;info="include 'spectrum.include'"
    !if jcwfatal than
    !echo end of compile
    !else
    !echo errors in compile
    !endif
    !purge oldobj
    !link $oldpass,oldobj;rl=rl.local,rl.common,rl.local;xl=xl.common;cap=ia
    !purge obj.local
    !rename oldobj,object.local
    !comment **** do this thing again in 30 minutes ****
    !stream myfile.mygroup.myaccout;in=,,30
    !eoj

    (The original was in all caps MPE JCL for FORTRAN77 but slashdot forbade the all caps, had to downshift.)

    --
    Tracy Johnson
    Old fashioned text games hosted below:
    http://empire.openmpe.com/
    BT
  74. Woo hoo 239lb's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Homer once automated his job with a plastic dipping bird, with disastrous results.

    I did exactly this, I have a drinking bird jig doing 80% (the jig was designed to look just like the dribking bird) of my work I now spend my days arriving late leaving early and testing out my YouTube connection from the beanbag in my office. My boss loves it, the drinking bird does my job better, faster and doesn't complain about a sore shoulder. As for my down time I have given up asking for more things to do, but when they arrive I jump on them and smash them out as quick as I can. Do I get paid more? No but yes, I do less labour and get paid the same, and get a crap load of foreign orders done that keep my mind going. Am I looking for a new job? Not really, I know this can't go on for another four years but I am happy, and any new job will require ( relatively lots) more work, so to me they will have to pay me lots more which is just not going to happen! I really feel sorry for my next employer I have been spoilt and will be hard to get back into a normal work pattern where I must arrive on time every time and appear busy until I leave!! But until that day comes along the gravy boat is floating just fine for me :)

  75. Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    become the guy who develops the automation.