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Protesters Blockade Microsoft's Seattle Headquarters Over Tax Breaks
reifman (786887) writes "A thousand unionized healthcare workers protested outside Microsoft's Seattle offices over its Nevada tax dodge on Friday. Microsoft shareholders have pocketed more than $5.34 billion in tax savings as Washington State social services and schools have taken huge cuts. In a hearing Wednesday, the Supreme Court suggested it may hold the Legislature in contempt and order it to repeal all tax breaks to restore proper funding to K-12 schools and universities." I suspect Microsoft's lawyers are careful to engage in legal tax avoidance rather than illegal tax evasion. Geekwire notes "The South Lake Union satellite facility is not a major office for Microsoft, compared to its presence in Redmond. It’s not clear why the workers didn’t protest at Microsoft headquarters."
I suspect they protested at S. Lake Union because that is very close to downtown Seattle and an extremely visible location. Microsoft Campus in Redmond is in the in a much more suburban atmosphere, it would be much less of a visible protest there.
The difference between Microsoft-style tax avoidance and tax evasion is that MS just donate to politicians to reduce the amount of taxes they pay in the former while you don't pay politicians in the latter
It could be that the Starbucks sipping culture is the problem, not a company that has actually created jobs and paid billions in taxes.
Itâ(TM)s not clear why the workers didnâ(TM)t protest at Microsoft headquarters."
- this is not the question, and really, the answer is in TFA:
But Jeff Reifman, a technology consultant and writer who used to work for Microsoft, is pointing the finger at his former employer, saying that Microsoft has used a subsidiary in Nevada to avoid paying Washington taxes. Heâ(TM)s written numerous articles about this over the years, and now published a recent commentary on Crosscut.com linking Microsoftâ(TM)s tax policy with the stateâ(TM)s school funding shortfall
There you go, that's why they are in Nevada.
By the way, this is again compared to Burger King for all the wrong reasons:
In response, Hunter said that he and many other legislators tried for years to figure out whether they could tax the money Microsoft sends to Nevada. He said the answer from the stateâ(TM)s lawyers was always, âoeNo.â And he said itâ(TM)s similar to the recent move by Burger King to buy a Canadian company as a way to lower its U.S. tax bill.
âoeTo move that big chunk of revenue to Nevada â" itâ(TM)s legal,â Hunter said. âoeSo this is just like the Burger King thing. Itâ(TM)s frustrating, and youâ(TM)ve got lots of people in Congress who are frustrated about it, but itâ(TM)s legal.â
Burger King is a BRAZILIAN COMPANY, not American. Hasn't been American since about 1989. 70% of its stock is held by a Brazilian conglomerate. Fucking Americans are idiots, crying about a Brazilian company merging with a Canadian one, but what else is new?
However the point is that Microsoft is a victim of unconstitutional, illegal government system that usurped power and is stealing people's money. Income taxes are illegal and are collected illegally for a wide range of reasons.
Of-course the reality is that so are these government monopolies on education and health insurance and care. There should be no government at all in any of it, education and health insurance and care are just as much subject to free market rules as any other products, including food and shelter and clothing and energy and none of is any of government's business and the fact that government is in all of these things is the reason that these socialist / fascist economies are dying and good, the sooner the better. The sooner these socialist/fascist states disappear the sooner people can rebuild their individual freedoms and real economies.
MY OTHER COMMENTS
I don't get this at all?
If a business has avoided paying some taxes *legally* and citizens are angry about it? The proper channel to go through is protesting the government that allowed it.
Any "for profit" business has the responsibility to maximize profits for the sake of its continued existence and growth, and as a duty to its stockholders if it was publicly held. Therefore, it would be irresponsible of it NOT to take advantage of legal tax loopholes or tactics to minimize costs.
It sounds like some people have the idea that they can "shame" businesses into volunteering to pay more tax than they're legally required to pay. I'm not saying that might not have a small measure of success in some situations -- but you'd probably achieve similar results by just randomly picketing ANY profitable business and demanding they give more to charity, or pay more of their profits to improve the local area, or ??
The crux of the problem here is the way the laws are written, so only your legislators can correct it.
Well the problem is varying business interests essentially own a substantial portion of the legislative body, so reforming the tax law to be more fair to businesses (less breaks) will never, ever happen.
You can rationalize it all you want, but tax "avoidance" really is the same concept as tax evasion.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
I suspect they protested at S. Lake Union because that is very close to downtown Seattle and an extremely visible location.
You have that right on the money.
This year at WWDC there were Apple tax protestors out front before the keynote with the classic protestor drum circle and some kind of chant.
Well the moment the cameras outside are gone? So are they. I had some respect for them before that for at least making a stand, even if I disagree with the position. But they weren't making a stand - they were making a TV show.
Given the behavior it's hard to believe they were not all actors of one form or another. It certainly didn't seem like anyone had the kind of protesting spirit that really meant anything when they couldn't be arsed to protest longer than a few hours. I have to wonder if the Microsoft protest is of the same spiritless form.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Now what would happen if nobody could hide economic development decisions, such as the relocation of companies between states? That is, that any decision to move, no matter how small or early, had to be publicly disclosed - and that all existing records had to be made public? That would anger thieving states like Georgia, who have no qualms about removing history from Northern states, while providing a chance for states to make an agreement.
Or, you can have the status quo, which encourages blood-feud between states.
On some level this sounds like playing dirty pool but it's really not... it's the exact same thing you would do if you had your employer behind the eight ball in salary negotiations: "Other companies are willing to pay me X for my skills, so why don't you match it or I will leave?"
Statistically speaking, that's a rare enough position that it is an exception. Besides, employers can do more damage with the same position over multiple people and jurisdictions - as they are favored by government over workers.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
The state chose not to pursue over a billion in unpaid taxes.
Until now I have chosen not to pursue billions in unpaid money you owe me that I've done absolutely nothing for.
The state just gave Boeing NINE BILLION in tax giveaways.
Until now you have enjoyed a free ride as I've chosen not to tax any of your earnings.
When you have paid this legally shaky debt then you will regain the right to complain about Microsoft.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Over one thousand union workers in the city have plenty of free time on a weekday to go protest instead of doing their jobs? That's a huge surprise.
Companies are not "moving assets to another country" (by which you obviously mean earnings). They are earning money in other countries, on which BTW they pay tax in those countries, and then the profit they have opted not to move back to the U.S. because they face a monstrous tax (40%!!!!) on the amount the would bring back, which remember THEY HAVE ALREADY PAID TAXES ON WHERE INCOME WAS MADE.
Look at the chart of corporate tax rates around the world, the US rate is way higher than any other country.
Would you take a 40% pay cut on your earnings?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why waste your time parading to an empty street?
This is right in the middle of SF (4th & Howard). If nothing else there are a ton of cars going past all the time.
Then the whole week long there are thousands of Apple developers walking in and out and handing around outside enjoying the weather (yes, sometimes SF has nice weather in June and this was one of those years).
But basically if you are dedicated you are THERE. That's really the point. They were not there for anyone but the cameras, then it was off to Starbucks or wherever.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
they didn't protest @ the Redmond headquarters because most people in Redmond wouldn't care. Even if they did, few people would see the protests. the Microsoft headquarters is hugely supported by all their employees and after hours all you get are the black SUVs following you around if you venture too far around their boundaries. Besides, which building would you protest on the M.S.campus? It's nicely lit up, well groomed and clean (perfect skateboard tracks) but not a lot of public traffic. anyone in this area is either a M.S. employee or they are retired.
happy trials
I pooped. It was green. It was also delicious.
Legal tax avoidance is just illegal tax evasion after you bought the relevant laws.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Shareholders pocketed more than 5 BLLION? LIEs
I am a shareholder, and I didn't see a penny.
Employees are shareholders also via stock rewards, they won't see a penny either.
Incorrect,
Evasion is avoiding paying what you OWE
Avoidance is avoiding OWEing.
Semantics is VERY impotant.
One is avoiding a occurred DEBT, the other is avoiding getting into debt in the first place.
Oh, that's why Windows and Surface Pro etc are so "cheap"! It's because of all the money Microsoft is saving on Taxes. Right?
And pocket the dirty money yourself.
As a MicroSoft shareholder, living on a very fixed income, I thank the MicroSoft management for managing the company to increase my return of investment.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Someone needs to remind them Atlas Shrugged was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual.
the Supreme Court suggested it may hold the Legislature in contempt
Regardless of the rightness or wrongness of the underlying issue, I'd really love it if the Washington (State) Supreme Court really did find the Washington (State) Congress in contempt... and then the Congress impeach, convict, and remove from office every single one of the justices on that Supreme Court.
Judges all over the U.S., at all levels, have long over-stepped the bounds of their given roles. They need reigning in -- hard.
So, while the funding for K-12 is being cut to fund the tax breaks for Microsoft . . . Gates is blathering about the importance of teaching history.
Maybe Gates will expand his plans for teaching history to include reading, writing, math and science . . . ? Then the state could get rid of K-12 altogether. It would be a Win-Win.
For someone.
Maybe.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
They wouldn't have to be paying for infrastructure support at a minimum, police protection, private exits from the freeway, ...
It seems like everyone here thinks Microsoft has some obligation to give our government money. Have you seen what our government does with that money? Do you want them to have more tanks, guns bombs? More spying equipment? To continue the war on drugs? To imprison more than 1% of the population?
Thank you Microsoft.
How much would the state collect if they eliminated the income tax deduction for union dues? Seems fair that it goes both ways.
If they put this much effort by going DMV and getting ID, we would not be having this problem.
If they want to protest, maybe they should protest in front of the county, state, or federal capitols. A corporation is legally obligated to operate in the way most beneficial to the stockholders, not the community or country as a whole. They are protesting a company obeying the law. If they don't like the law, they need to address that. Naturally it will get nowhere, as the government at all levels is bought, paid for, and manipulated by large corporate entities, but that's a different and far more sad issue that will only be resolved through some form of huge upheaval (voter attitude or disobedience). I guess they should get some small bit of credit for at least protesting something rather than hanging around the TV waiting for yet another shocking celebrity sound bite...
"because of us you have many thousands more people paying property/school/sales taxes and supporting the local economy. Other places would be willing to offer us a break on our corporate taxes if we moved there instead and benefitted their economy. So why don't you?"
ONLY Businesses can get away with this. The average citizen couldn't. Say I went to my city and said "you should give me a tax break because I spend my pay check in your city and without me you would have that much less local income." Sorry but it wouldn't work - they would LAUGH me out of the city council meeting. Why should big businesses be any different. Sure maybe give them -some- breaks but not the massive ones they get. Having worked for Cabelas I -know- how much they get out of a city to bring one of their stores into town. The big difference is big businesses can shove tons of money into the pockets of the politicians as well as pay for trips and golf outings, or put money in their re-election coffers and magically the business gets what it wants.
Sorry folks but Corporations - run this country and drive ALL the decisions not -YOU- - your vote means diddly squat! They only thing politicians care about is $$$$ to make their decisions. So if you want a politician to vote the way you want - be prepared to cough up LOTS of $$$$ to them somehow.
The Truth is a Virus!!!
ONLY Businesses can get away with this. The average citizen couldn't.
It doesn't work for average businesses any more than it works for average citizens (and for the same reasons). It might work if you were a billionaire, though.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
all these union idiots think they are entitled to a lifetime of employment and high pay. They behave like fucking children. You lose your job, well, go and find another one or get a new set of skills. Jobs and positions don't last forever just look at manufacturing which is almost dissipated in the U.S.
Turn off their water.
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens." - Schiller
I though Microsoft was an Irish corporation.
Have gnu, will travel.
WA does not have a state income tax. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_income_tax :
"Washington – no individual tax"
So the liar zidium gets rewarded up to a +2, but the guy with actual experience that is correct gets hammered down to a -1. Fuck this site. This used to be a good technical site before the moderators decided they hated it and wanted to destroy it with stupid shit like this. Of course CONservatives always ruin everything touch. They hate the reverse midas touch, and this twatnozzle zidium has proven he is one of their kind.
99% of these protestors don't understand it's the IRS's job to enforce taxes
And about 99.9999999999% don't understand the IRS is a treasonous organization, only 100 years old. Sheep will never realize this, and instead blame the company who is simply following SEC regulations.
That rate is the highest possible rate, not what corporations actually pay.
What a great system, where buying influence in government gets you reductions off an astronomically high tax rate.
Perhaps it would be better to have a system with fair tax rates that didn't beg for corruption?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Microsoft shareholders have pocketed more than $5.34 billion in tax savings as Washington State social services and schools have taken huge cuts.
Curious, when has the Washington State budget dropped at a rate less than inflation? When have receipts caused a deficit? If social services and schools are cut, it's not from a lack of revenue - it's the slime in Olympia deciding to change priorities and then use "we don't have enough money left for schools!" to try to extort even more dollars out of the taxpayers. There is plenty of funds for social services and schools - the problem is that Olympia (the Legislature AND the Governor) don't have the intestinal fortitude to actually prioritize as the State Constitution requires.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
That's why.
What the heck, I can jump in on this too.
If big corporations decide to pay as many taxes as they can, they'll have to get the money somewhere, so they will raise their prices, and it'll be you and me footing the bill.
Except that that's not always true.
If they're in a monopoly position, sure; they can theoretically raise prices whenever and however much they want. If they're not, however, then they might just have to reduce the execs' bonuses this quarter, instead. (After all, if they could have raised prices before, why didn't they?) If you look at the statistics on where the profits of corporations have been going more and more over the past 40 years or so, you'll see that there's plenty of room for compensation at the top to be reduced to pay for all this sort of thing.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
in 1997 Microsoft Licensing was formed and setup in Reno, Nevada. one of the original 7, yes, it was to avoid over $600 million per year of corporate sales tax paid to King County Washington. $600 million was the windfall the first year based on $4 billion annual sales of Microsoft licensed software.
Tax avoidance is legal.
Tax evasion is not.
Microsoft was using its tax avoidance mechanism which is legal.
nuf said.
Tax avoidance is legal. Less government should be the direction we take in the wake of less taxes.
K-12 Educational funding should on the heads of property tax owners.
Higher Education should rest squarely on the corporations and businesses.
Don't mix use taxes, and common sense will not prevail since most leaders in government do not use common sense until they need to be re-elected.