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UK Ham Radio Reg Plans To Drop 15 min Callsign Interval and Allow Encryption

First time accepted submitter product_bucket writes A consultation published by the UK Radio Regulator Ofcom seeks views on its plan to remove the mandatory 15 minute callsign identifier interval for amateur radio licensees. The regulator also intends to permit the use of encryption by a single volunteer emergency communications organization. The consultation is open until 20th October, and views are sought by interested parties.

104 comments

  1. Why encryption only for one body? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Guess that'll automatically be RAYNET then. Would have been nice to have encryption for a wider audience to play and experiment with.

    1. Re:Why encryption only for one body? by mwvdlee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because the rest can just use steganography and encryption as usual.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  2. Scrap all the rules by Threni · · Score: 1

    All that ham nerd stuff was probably meaningful once, but is there a single good reason why people can't broadcast whatever they want? I mean, sure, stick within allocated frequencies, don't bleed over other ones etc, but check out the rules - they're hilarious. Are we still worried about political subversion and Russian spies?

    1. Re:Scrap all the rules by Ozoner · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can now. Just stick to the allocated ISM bands (eg WiFi).

      What you can't do now is build your own transmitter without a ham license. This obviously is to prevent interference to other services.

      The philosophy is simple. License the Radio or License the Operator. The Amateur Operator has passed sufficient technical barrier to ensure that they won't do stupid things and cause interference.

      There is one catch however. The Amateur License excluded commercial operations. To do that you need a commercial license.

      The amateur license is primarily for self education.

    2. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can build your own equipment for ISM, at least in Europe. You can self certify it for CE and write the technical-file.

    3. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Different modes are not encryption. That's like saying "hmmm i can only do sideband so that means i cant listen to AM". Crypto is not at all allowed on the ham bands and likely never will be. Phase Shift Keying is a mode of transmission and PSK31 is a standard that uses it. Also, WSJT isn't a mode, it is a program.

    4. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but is there a single good reason why people can't broadcast whatever they want?

      Yup, It frightens rich people and politicians hell bent on scaring the rich.

      You have to be a sociopath to get into politics.

    5. Re:Scrap all the rules by compro01 · · Score: 2

      There are many encrypted ham standards, PSK31 WSPR, WSJT, MAP65, Hellscriber, etc, etc.

      Umm, unless I am managing to completely misunderstand something, those are not encryption, those are simply digital signals rather than analog.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    6. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Home made does not need CE certification, neither does kit gear.

      The only rule is you must not EXCEED the limiting power output on tranmission.

      So it is VERY legal to JAM ISM bands (WiFi et al.), as long as you DO NOT EXCEED POWER LIMITS.

    7. Re:Scrap all the rules by AlecC · · Score: 5, Insightful

      EM spectrum is a scarce resource, shared between all the community. If one person fills up the spectrum with high powered broadcasts, they deny others the use of that spectrum for potentially more valuable resources. You cannot buy or manufacture more electromagnetic spectrum: what we have is all there is, and more people want it than than there is space for. Would you be happy if, for example, I knocked out all WiFi and cell signals for ten miles around my house? Would you be happy if I overloaded the frequencies used by the emergency services? Would you be happy if I filled the TV frequencies with hardcore porn or a terrorist manifesto?

      You have to be a sociopath not to expect there to be some sharing of limited resources.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    8. Re:Scrap all the rules by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

      You are mostly right, but Hellschreiber actually ends up being an analog signal: though it has digital origins, timing drift and interference make it worthwhile to produce grayscale output for maximum legibility.

      --
      How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
    9. Re:Scrap all the rules by johanw · · Score: 0

      "Would you be happy if I filled the TV frequencies with hardcore porn"
      Well, yes. That would be better than the crap they broadcast now most of the time. :-)

    10. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is different in the EU compared to the US. You are excempt from some CE certifications if it is a one off for temporary lab use, but EMC is one that you typically always need. Note that putting on the market also covers using, not just selling it.

    11. Re:Scrap all the rules by AlecC · · Score: 1

      So you want to subject children to hardcore porn?

      I have no problem with adults viewing what they want, but children are different, and broadcast TV goes to children. I don't think I want to live in your world.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    12. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, (here) encryption is not disallowed as long as other people can read the contents of your conversation. One way to do that is by publishing the algorithm and key used. Another one if using plaintext, but encryption for authentication, for example for repeater control.

    13. Re: Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for the part about not interfering with another device

    14. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Ahh ye old cry of the champion of the lack of critical thinking. Children might... something something.... children!

      We sit our children down in front of the TV and ignore it, trusting that somebody else will make sure they can't see anything objectionable. God forbid we take responsibility for raising our own offspring.

      Don't you think that if the broadcast TV channels were open to anything and everything we wouldn't blithely sit our children down in front of them? I know the concept of critical thinking is alien to you but 2+2 should still be understandable.

      There's hardcore pornography on the internet too, and a whole lot more. The answer is naturally, not to allow your child unsupervised on the internet. But that would take effort on your part, instead of crying to the rest of society to demand we make the world into something that won't let your child find anything awkward in it.

      "Children might" is not a good reason for anything on its own. Your children might drink bleach, the answer is not to ban bleach, the answer is to expect you to keep the fucking bleach away from your kid until you've taught him better. This logic applies to a great many things.

    15. Re:Scrap all the rules by AlecC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I entirely agree one should supervise children. Children should only be watching safe channels, and adults should supervise them. But your proposal is to invade the safe channel - to replace Cartoon Network with snuff movies. This is not putting porn where the unsupervised can find it, this is forcing porn into areas where reasonable people would not expect to find it.

      It is not "children might", it is "you are forcing on children". The difference between consensual sex and rape, the difference between guns in self defence and firing at random in a shopping mall.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    16. Re:Scrap all the rules by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      You're not misunderstanding. They are encoding schemes and/or modulation techniques.

      One of the differences is that anyone who knows the standard can decode the above. They don't need possession of a decryption key or device.

    17. Re: Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ISM band do not gurantee non-interference, why? Microwaves, Babymonitors, Wifi, et al. Everybody stepping on each others band and no rules for band spacing.

    18. Re:Scrap all the rules by RabidReindeer · · Score: 0

      I entirely agree one should supervise children. Children should only be watching safe channels, and adults should supervise them. But your proposal is to invade the safe channel - to replace Cartoon Network with snuff movies. This is not putting porn where the unsupervised can find it, this is forcing porn into areas where reasonable people would not expect to find it.

      It is not "children might", it is "you are forcing on children". The difference between consensual sex and rape, the difference between guns in self defence and firing at random in a shopping mall.

      BS. It's putting objectionable material out in front of them, but unless you're doing a Clockwork Orange on them, the nasty little buggers don't have to watch it. They can switch channels or turn it off or leave the room.

      It's called Free Will. And it's amazing how many of God's Anointed want to take it away from us.

      Ultimately, it says that A) other people cannot be trusted to find their own way into Heaven, so we have to force them there. and B) we don't trust God to ensure that other people's life experiences won't allow them to become worthy in their own right.

      Porn or no porn, for most of us, life is going to consist of all sorts of unpleasant experiences. It's what we make of the sum total of those experiences that counts. Parents - and other authority figures - are expected to train children, not control them. Leave that for the physical dangers of life. If they see porn and it traumatizes them, counsel them. Just like you should be counselling them over scenes of violence and destruction.

      And if you don't believe in God, then the "Think of the Children" argument is pretty weak and you need to present scientific evidence.

    19. Re:Scrap all the rules by AlecC · · Score: 0

      In, I don't need evidence for "Think if the children". As a parent, I think if the children. A purely emotional response, but one that I share with most of the human race. Which is how we got here - species that don't think of their children tend to go extinct, at least at our scale (insects etc do fine on lay 'em and leave 'em). It is one of my fundamental values, along with free speech and not being eaten.

      And I think expecting small children to work out what is happening and take appropriate action when Bugs Bunny is sudsenly replace by sado-masochistic sex is to have totally a unreasonable understanding of what children can and cannot do, and betrays someone who, so far as children are concerned, does not know what they are talking about.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    20. Re:Scrap all the rules by msauve · · Score: 2

      "Crypto is not at all allowed on the ham bands"

      That's not true. Part 97 prohibits "messages encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning." If crypto were used, not for obscuring meaning, but to prevent unauthorized access (e.g. for a "telecommand" application), it would not run afoul of the regs.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    21. Re:Scrap all the rules by chuckinator · · Score: 3

      The amateur license is primarily for self education.

      As a US general class amateur radio licensee, I will gladly confirm that you called out one of the primary objectives of the international amateur radio service with the other being emergency communications. I got mine out of pure curiosity and it never ceases to provide something new on a regular basis to scratch my head over.

    22. Re:Scrap all the rules by chuckinator · · Score: 2

      You can on the unlicensed ISM spectrum bands for wifi, CB radio, those FRS bubble pack radios, but you're legally limited to very low power operation. Radio licensing is largely about safety with regards to high power transmissions since RF can burn and kill you (it is a form of electricity), and slackjawed mouth breathing fools have a tendency for "hold my beer, watch this" moments.

    23. Re:Scrap all the rules by AlecC · · Score: 1

      I never claimed more moral authority. I claimed my right to express my opinion on /. I also suggested that I am probably in the majority. That is not a moral statement, it is a personal view. No, I think the OP is a short sighted selfish git, but I do not see it as a political statement, just an ignorant one. That, also, is a personal opinion not a claim of moral superiority,

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    24. Re:Scrap all the rules by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

      but is there a single good reason why people can't broadcast whatever they want?

      Yup, It frightens rich people and politicians hell bent on scaring the rich.

      You have to be a sociopath to get into politics.

      Perhaps, but you definitely are a sociopath given that you think that you must be allowed to do whatever you want regardless to the consequences to anyone else.

    25. Re:Scrap all the rules by tepples · · Score: 1

      That's signing, not encryption.

    26. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus Christ, you are as dumb as a fucking manhole cover.

    27. Re:Scrap all the rules by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      ". Radio licensing is largely about safety with regards to high power transmissions since RF can burn and kill you (it is a form of electricity), and slackjawed mouth breathing fools have a tendency for "hold my beer, watch this" moments."
      As opposed to know it all geeks that have hay this is cool moments.

      Wow Radio Licensing is not largely about safety it is about interference. You do not want some self entitled libertarian deciding that they should black out the local TV station AKA "Max Headroom" or jam the police and fire departments communications, or any number of dumb things.
      It takes A LOT of RF to burn you. It only takes a few watts of power to make problems for a 4 block radius.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    28. Re:Scrap all the rules by msauve · · Score: 1

      No, signing is only one option. One may wish to use off-the-shelf 802.11 equipment and WPA to create a secure telecommand link. If done with the intention of preventing unauthorized access rather than obscuring the content, it does not violate the regs.

      For instance, one may want to securely control a model craft, something the regs directly allow: "The control signals are not considered codes or ciphers intended to obscure the meaning of the communication." Or, it might be used for telecommand of a ham station, which the regs specifically require to be "protected against making, willfully or negligently, unauthorized transmissions."

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    29. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Calm down, there, champ. I think the guy you have freaked out about was just making a joke. If you're this thin-skinned, please leave the internet and turn in your credentials at the front desk before you go.

    30. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you not realize that the johanw's post was a shot at the content of quality of network/broadcast television and not a real call to have "Bugs Bunny ...replaced by sado-masochistic sex"? I think you have the problem, no one took this as far as you did.

    31. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amateur frequencies are there for personal pursuit of the technology and "for fun". If encryption is allowed, that opens the floodgates for commercial abuse (more traffic == less bandwidth for amateur use) since it'd be hard to identify a station that is abusing the amateur part(s) of the spectrum to get around buying a commercial license. Further, it's *WAY* too easy to build a transmitter that interferes with other frequencies (or that isn't calibrated properly and is bleeding over into non-amateur frequencies -- which could be military, fire and rescue, police, cell phones, ......). An amateur license means you've learned a great deal of RF technology and spectrum allocation, rules, etc. to make sure you won't (accidentally) do any of these things. As to "subversive", this is more to prevent a "news broadcast" by an unaccountable (ie, biased liar) news source and we all know only licensed Biased Liars (like Fox News) are allowed to do this. ;-) In general, all this is useful because we don't want AT&T and Verizon to be the only ones who remember anything about how all this shit works, do we?

      The rules are there for good reasons but it does limit the "fun" you can have. I'm not sure how I feel about it but this is definitely significant news.

    32. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what rules are you refering to?

      PART 97—AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE
      97.5 Station license required.
      97.7 Control operator required.
      97.15 Station antenna structures.

      Subpart B—Station Operation Standards

      Subpart E—Providing Emergency Communications

    33. Re:Scrap all the rules by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      I think a ham operator can encrypt the control link to a spacecraft legally.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    34. Re:Scrap all the rules by bugs2squash · · Score: 2

      I'm a new ham, looking into installing an antenna in my back yard. I have kids.

      The impedance at the center of a half wave dipole is low, say 70 ohms or so if it's the right length for the transmission, but at the ends it is really high. 100W (small beer for a ham operator) into 70 ohms is 80 volts or so in the middle of the antenna. At the end of the antenna the impedance is very high, say 4000 ohms, the same 100W is then 630 volts or so.

      The impedance can be much more, the power can be much, much more, these are moderate numbers for RF that can be generated from a small radio. That's one of the reasons the antennas are hoisted into the trees, it's not just for propagation.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    35. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Think of the children!" More crap has been foisted on the public with this disingenuous phrase. I looked at porn when I was a child, and loved it!

    36. Re: Scrap all the rules by dr_dank · · Score: 1

      As a young ham, myself and another member of our club were rebuked for what we thought was a clever workaround to a persistent jammer. We came up with a list of repeaters, assigning a number to each. When a jammer would come along, we'd simply say "meet me on number 4" and we'd QSY to that repeater to continue our QSO.

      At a subsequent meeting, one of the OM officers of our club told us to knock it off as it could run afoul of the "codes & ciphers" prohibiting of part 97.

      --
      Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
    37. Re:Scrap all the rules by PhotoJim · · Score: 1

      Part 97 only applies to US hams, or foreign hams with reciprocity transmitting from US territory.

    38. Re:Scrap all the rules by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Yes but you will break no law if you burn yourself. The regulations are all about interference.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    39. Re: Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not permitted to cause, but must accept all.

    40. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The EM band is not all that limited, hell it's from less then 1hz to quite a few thousand+ learn to make less noise and use less bandwidth...

    41. Re:Scrap all the rules by Tyrannicsupremacy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well we also got here by fucking the females right after puberty and suddenly (in the cosmic scale) that's off the table. The only thing that's changed is the definition of "child."

      --
      http://i.cubeupload.com/T6cyLu.png
    42. Re: Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not to obscure the meaning! It's a secure telecommand link!

      I'm sure there's a loophole waiting to be ripped a new one.

    43. Re:Scrap all the rules by chuckinator · · Score: 1

      Well, I guess you got me. That exam the FCC made me take to get my license had a LOT of questions about safety around electricity and RF, maximum peak envelope powers, and the requirements for a formal site survey when installing transmitting equipment. Yep, nothing at all about safety there.

    44. Re:Scrap all the rules by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      You obviously haven't been paying close attention to Bugs Bunny if you think that he's a magic shelter. There's some really wicked humor in there. It just happens to go over our heads when we're young.

      There is this ridiculous delusion of "innocence" when it comes to young children and sex. Children are are born aware of sexuality. One of the most embarrassing things about parenthood can be convincing them not to display that awareness in polite company.

      Of course, there's porn and then there's S&M. But that's not so much sex as sex+violence, and as far as I'm concerned, it's the violence part that I'm worried about, just as much as I am when there's no sex, but lots of pistol-whipping, waterboarding, guns, and fists.

      Our closest genetic relatives are chimpanzees and bonabos. Chimps have very rigid sexual controls, and they also display a lot of aggressiveness - including sexual attacks. Bonabos are very free and open about sex and reportedly a lot less inclined to be violent. Maybe they're on to something.

    45. Re: Scrap all the rules by brainboyz · · Score: 1

      Your officers were full of shit. Having a private channel list is perfectly legal. Your content is perfectly readable: you're changing channels. "QSY channel 4" is no different than "QSY Bob's repeater." Just because an outsider wouldn't know who Bob is, doesn't mean you're using a code or cipher.

    46. Re:Scrap all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If hardcore porn is permitted on broadcast television, then I should also be permitted to walk around in public naked while masturbating. If your don't want your children to see me wanking it, then don't let your children out of your home unsupervised.

    47. Re:Scrap all the rules by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Except that if you hurt yourself you are not breaking the law.
      There are lots of safety rules. You have to obey the regulations.

      I am not just talking about Amature radio but FCC licensing. That includes TV, Radio, Public service bands, HAM, and even wifi. The power regulations and frequency regulations are mostly in place to keep you from stomping on everyone else. AARL has a special relationship with the FCC that allows them to do testing and have a large voice in setting the rules for HAMs. But HAMs are a small section of licensed users.
      Frankly AARL works on the notion that someone that makes the effort to study and pass the tests will not do anything hyper stupid like highjacking a TV stations band. Frankly much like the EAA the AARL seems to do a good job with keeping the dangerous idiots out.
      But what I said stands. The licensing is about interference. If you hurt yourself you will not get a visit from FCC but if you interfere with someone else you could get a visit from the FCC

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    48. Re:Scrap all the rules by chuckinator · · Score: 1

      There's a lot about safety in the regulations, and you're misrepresenting what those regulations are by only highlighting a circumstance in which the operator hurts themselves. You are breaking the law if your station installation doesn't meet the necessary safety regulations, isn't grounded properly, isn't of a sufficient level of engineering quality, but particularly if you exceed maximum power output and RF exposure limits (especially to recipients unaware of the exposure). Enforcement of that is a different matter... Still, the safety and welfare of human beings trumps little things like interferences, and anyone in a life threatening situation (with or without a license) is allowed to use a radio on any frequency or any communication tool at their disposal to ask for help.

      The human body is resonant from 30-300 mhz, and the human head is resonant on VHF freqs (2 meter VHF is the most common amateur band for local FM communication, by the way). Say I have a 100W 2 meter transceiver fed into a 20 db yagi-uda directional antenna which I point towards my local repeater, but it's not high up because I cheaped out on a decent mast installation, and that sucker isn't grounded worth a flip. I could potentially be transmitting 1000W (100W at 20 db is 1000W) into an unsuspecting neighbor's house, and the regulations for individuals aware of the exposure is much higher than those for individuals unaware of their exposure (since those unaware wouldn't recognize the signs of dangerous exposure). You're going to feel a little tingling heat sensation if you have that antenna pointed at you, it will definitely burn you good if you touch it (you'll get this funky ashy grey burn, too), and that is a reasonable setup to encounter for even the most cash strapped ham out there.

      Ok, now lets move over to unlicensed services. AM and sideband mode citizens band, 5 watts. Tons of folks operating illegal linear amps on those, and there's regs on amp manufacturers to prevent their equipment from illegally boosting on 11 meters. Family radio service is limited to 1/2 W output, and the radios are required to have permanently mounted negative gain antennas that almost guarantee coming in under that limit every time. Wifi is limited to 1W peak output on the beefiest of access points, and is still only going to go up to 10W with a 20 db directional. Any ham transmitter that outputs below 200W peak envelope power doesn't require any sort of RF survey for installation, but that value takes into account the gain/loss of the feedline and antenna system in use, too. The mode of operation comes into play since it dictates duty cycle of transmission, and most digital systems are typically a fraction of the duty cycle of FM.

      You might be interested to note that it's the Amateur Radio and Relay League, making it the ARRL. I'm not sure what the AARL is, but I think you mixed it up with the other old timers club, the AARP.

    49. Re:Scrap all the rules by chuckinator · · Score: 1

      It definitely is, and my prior list was not meant to be comprehensive by any means.

    50. Re:Scrap all the rules by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      It was a typo/brain fart. I though it was the American Amateur Radio, I remebered it was the ARRL right after I hit the post button.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  3. Encryption by cirrustelecom · · Score: 1

    Some HAMs in the US tried to get the FCC to allow encryption on HAM radio about a year or so ago under the guise of HIPAA... that did not go very far. Although, it would be nice to ID every 15 minutes instead of the current 10 in the US.

    --
    "No, but understanding is not required, only obedience."
    1. Re:Encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HIPAA doesn't really matter, you will not be transmitting patient records over your handy talkie (I guess). European privacy laws do not even allow talking about medical things (if you are related to a healthcare provider or something like it) if the connection is not secure.

      No encryption is no volunteer emergency service using HAM, simple.

    2. Re:Encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Extending to 15 minutes the length of ham radio monologues that are daily broadcasted on V/UHF repeaters would be the final straw...

    3. Re:Encryption by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      Ahhh, but as soon as it's an emergency, then the rules are suspended and you don't need to be a HAM to broadcast and would not be limited by the regulations that HAM operators are required to follow. And, let's face it - in a true emergency situation all the rules go out the window anyway. When it comes to saving a life or following the written word of regulation, life safety will always trump.

      The only real thing that keeps encryption from being on the airwaves is hardware support - i.e. the availability of radios which both encrypt and allow operation on HAM frequencies. Most manufacturers are obligated to respect the rules, though clearly some Chinese versions tend to not disallow operation that goes afoul of the US regs.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    4. Re:Encryption by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      Presumably the reason to allow this is not to permit hams more freedom, but rather to persuade hams to purchase encryption units so that when the authorities ask them to provide communications they can do so in an encrypted way. Or, for the lobbyists, to make the ham radio service appear to have more utility in handling emergencies.

      I can't think of any reason why encrypting ham communications would do anything to improve the hobby, but I can see why authorities might like to have access to another somewhat secure communications alternative. How secure could it be anyway, you still have to distribute the keys ?
      The best this would do would be to make it slightly harder to listen to.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    5. Re:Encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't recall about the UK, but that's not true in the U.S. You might not get punished for it, but it's still illegal.

      In the US, encryption is illegal on ham bands. I like the idea of allowing it for emergency organizations, but then the NSA would have a tougher time, and the FCC would have a tougher time policing the ham bands.

    6. Re:Encryption by EmagGeek · · Score: 2

      Well, it didn't help that the guy who filed that petition didn't bother to read the HIPAA laws, nor understand that HIPAA laws do not apply to ham radio operators. He was seeking a solution to a made-up problem.

    7. Re:Encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also didn’t help his case when he mentioned checking his gmail.com account...

  4. They did scrap the rules... by Viol8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... they just called it CB.

    In theory a great idea, in practice you got a load if halfwit teenagers and other dimwits who had nothing to say keying up over people trying to have a sensible conversation and generally causing a nuisance. What with them and the people who seemed to think playing music from a crappy cassette tape into the mic suddenly turned their bedroom rig into Kiss FM eventually made CB unusable and it died (in the UK anyway) apart from the occasional diehard and some truckers.

    1. Re:They did scrap the rules... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      CB failed in the UK due to the very low power constraints. Most people couldn't talk to others a couple of miles away, even with 5m antenna. In car units struggled to make a mile on a good day when KD40s ruled the roost.

    2. Re:They did scrap the rules... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, there's always the 'freeband'. Which isn't free by the way. In '94 or so I had a lot of fun DX'ing on the channels above 40 (27555kHz was a main starting point if I remember correctly). Exchanged a lot of QSL cards. It's was something like the ham pirates. I haven't transmitted on any band since, but I'm still an avid listener. Anyway, the 11m band has been rather dead for the last years it seems... How times pass...

    3. Re:They did scrap the rules... by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

      In practice, the regulars are such pretentious dicks everyone else leaves and all the channels are now ghost towns.

    4. Re:They did scrap the rules... by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      UK CB channels went from 27.6 to 28Mhz. Only in the 90s was the US/EC band legalised too.

    5. Re:They did scrap the rules... by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      Oh rubbish. With a decent setup 4W goes a long way. Anyway, most people ran linears even back in the day though most also didn't have a clue what SWR was and wondered why they kept burning out. Muppets.

    6. Re:They did scrap the rules... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the situation in the UK was anything like in the Netherlands, you'd have a 0.5 Watt limit and just 22 channels. Which would not even be that bad, weren't it for the fact that every (*EVERY*) home had one. You'd have apartment buildings and flats with literally an antenna on every balcony. You'd be lucky if you could reach you neightbour five houses over under those circumstances.

      Now, the rules are more relaxed, as far as I know there are now 40 channels at 4 Watt. And nobody uses CB anymore. Only truck drivers and Tokkies (think ASBO, think white trash). At night you are more likely to hear foreign stations blearing at ridiculous power than a local station. No one cares anymore. CB is over.

  5. And also all the other things! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    These are the least interesting aspects of the consultation.

    1) The "how often you have to identify" thing is nearly irrelevant - it's just turned now from set occasions to the vague, and therefore hard to enforce, must-always-be-identifiable. But a few people on long ragchews didn't quite stick to the rules, while almost everyone else does. Those who continue abusing the bands will carry on not identifying anyway. As for digital/data encoding, that could always announce its callsign automatically at whatever interval - it's not like you have to do it in Morse/voice anymore, unless you want to;

    2) RAYNET are nowhere near as comprehensive as US amateur radio emergency support. I don't even understand why they've been given the privilege of encryption, but I guess there's something at work here I dont know - anybody?

    Now, the other shit, some of which is far more interesting:

    a) The "release" (this is newspeak for "private give-away") of bands 2350-2390 Mhz and 3410-3475 MHz. This is a substantial loss of amateur allocation to the wireless leeches. This isn't being consulted on, but it's a harsh reminder of the position of the ham, and a reason for the concession in b);

    b) The allocation without NoV of spectrum in the 470 kHz and 5 MHz bands. I remember a decade or so ago when 470 kHz ham radio work was pioneering, and it's nice to see it go mainstream;

    c) They're updating wording on fees but STILL not charging for the licence. In Soviet Britain, this is a bad thing, because a government department which gets rich from some set of stakeholders is one which listens to those stakeholders;

    d) They're making it slightly harder to transmit if you've been convicted under the WT Act. Since ham radio is the last bastion of long distance electronic free speech, any moves to make it harder to transmit are worth keeping an eye on. These amendments consider fairly specific circumstances, fortunately;

    e) A few babbles about call sign usage and re-use, which please those who like picking apart (genuine, if mostly just bureaucratic) problems with license wording;

    f) Some minor if decent clarifications supporting reciprocal usage and transmitting from multiple locations (direction-finding exercise, etc.). This shows that the licensing body is paying attention to detail about how licenses are actually used by hobbyists, which is pleasing.

    1. Re:And also all the other things! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      These are the least interesting aspects of the consultation.

      1) The "how often you have to identify" thing is nearly irrelevant - it's just turned now from set occasions to the vague, and therefore hard to enforce, must-always-be-identifiable. But a few people on long ragchews didn't quite stick to the rules, while almost everyone else does. Those who continue abusing the bands will carry on not identifying anyway. As for digital/data encoding, that could always announce its callsign automatically at whatever interval - it's not like you have to do it in Morse/voice anymore, unless you want to;

      2) RAYNET are nowhere near as comprehensive as US amateur radio emergency support. I don't even understand why they've been given the privilege of encryption, but I guess there's something at work here I dont know - anybody?

      Now, the other shit, some of which is far more interesting:

      a) The "release" (this is newspeak for "private give-away") of bands 2350-2390 Mhz and 3410-3475 MHz. This is a substantial loss of amateur allocation to the wireless leeches. This isn't being consulted on, but it's a harsh reminder of the position of the ham, and a reason for the concession in b);

      b) The allocation without NoV of spectrum in the 470 kHz and 5 MHz bands. I remember a decade or so ago when 470 kHz ham radio work was pioneering, and it's nice to see it go mainstream;

      c) They're updating wording on fees but STILL not charging for the licence. In Soviet Britain, this is a bad thing, because a government department which gets rich from some set of stakeholders is one which listens to those stakeholders;

      d) They're making it slightly harder to transmit if you've been convicted under the WT Act. Since ham radio is the last bastion of long distance electronic free speech, any moves to make it harder to transmit are worth keeping an eye on. These amendments consider fairly specific circumstances, fortunately;

      e) A few babbles about call sign usage and re-use, which please those who like picking apart (genuine, if mostly just bureaucratic) problems with license wording;

      f) Some minor if decent clarifications supporting reciprocal usage and transmitting from multiple locations (direction-finding exercise, etc.). This shows that the licensing body is paying attention to detail about how licenses are actually used by hobbyists, which is pleasing.

      This is a consultation exercise - make sure you get your views heard by Ofcom and raise awareness with your fellow enthusiasts. If you don't like something (RAYNET and / or band give-away) then write in and get everyone else to do that as well. Draft a set of objections and send it to others for them to write in as well.

  6. Encryption on HAM bands is a Pandoras Box by Sniper061 · · Score: 0

    As an Amateur Radio operator, I have mixed feelings on this. For one, being able to use encryption would be pretty neat. Being halfway around the world and being able to have a secure conversation with my wife (also a licensed HAM) would be awesome. On the other hand, the hand allocations we have right now are already pretty small and allowing encryption is just begging for more pirates to show up and splatter all over the bands. An earlier comment was right on the mark that part of the reason us HAMs study so much for our licenses is that it allows us to experiment with our radios. People who have not done this level of study will more than likely have spurious emissions or cause interference. Just look at the CB frequencies right now. When the license requirement went away for CB, the band was 'okay' for a while. Now though, you have guys cranking out thousands of watts and splattering all over the place. On the other hand I know how to transmit a 1500 watt signal while keeping all that power limited to within 100 Hz. As for the comment asking how relevant Amateur Radio is, I would say that it is still extremely relevant. Most advances in radio communications both on the HF and the microwave frequencies for the last 100 years have been done by amateur radio operators. Lets not forget the constant tinkering we do with our antennas and coming up with new antenna designs, several of which are now in common commercial use.

    1. Re:Encryption on HAM bands is a Pandoras Box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Encryption is already allowed for hams in the United States so long as the decryption keys are published somewhere.

      Encryption is NOT allowed for the purpose of obscuring a message, but it IS allowed as a method of access control.

    2. Re:Encryption on HAM bands is a Pandoras Box by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      I thought the capitalized HAM was supposed to an idiot newbie mistake. Doesn't every ham like to explain that the word is not an acronym for anything?

    3. Re:Encryption on HAM bands is a Pandoras Box by Sniper061 · · Score: 1

      While you are exactly correct in this assessment, the legality is currently very fuzzy and is only used in a couple specific circumstances. For instance, if you were to use 'insert band here' and 'insert digital transmission method here' to establish an SSH connection with computer system hooked up to a radio, you would likely end up being in violation of multiple rules. For instance, anybody stumbling across the signal would not be able to decode it. They will likely figure out which method of digital encoding you are using fairly easily but would be unable to decode the contents. Even if you have the keys posted on a website somewhere, who will know where to get them? Further, you must still identify yourself roughly every 10 minutes. That means you either break your connection and transmit in the clear every ten minutes, or you attach it to your packets... Only the first method would really be viable as in the second, your callsign is again, obfuscated. People in my club have gone back and forth on this as a side project to setup a packet BBS in the local area. What we have determined is that it is fine as long as we don't encrypt anything and manage the system locally. Anything else just gets too convoluted and fuzzy in regards to the regulations. Further conversations on the topic brought up the same points I did above and we have come to the conclusion that it is for the best to keep encryption out of Amateur radio with only a very few small, specific instances.

    4. Re:Encryption on HAM bands is a Pandoras Box by Sniper061 · · Score: 1

      I stopped fighting that fight a long time ago and just roll with it. Besides, while it not be an acronym it helps differentiate from the bacon variety. I usually leave qrz.com feeling hungry.

    5. Re:Encryption on HAM bands is a Pandoras Box by PhotoJim · · Score: 1

      Indeed. It's "ham" (or better, "radio amateur"), just like it's not the INTERNET or SLASHDOT.

  7. Special pleading by tepples · · Score: 1

    So you want to subject children to hardcore porn?

    Children would not exist were it not for a process whose depiction would be considered hardcore porn.

    children are different

    The special pleading fallacy can be avoided by describing how the difference is relevant in a particular context.

    1. Re:Special pleading by AlecC · · Score: 1

      No, I would not describe reasonably consensual sex of the sort required to make children as /hardcore/ porn. Hardcore porn probably requires strange ustensils, use of bodily orifices in ways that do not lead to reproduction, often blood, pain or simulated pain, obvious coercion.

      Children, not having yet developed the sexual drive, do not understand the motivation for sex. However, I do not think that seeing normal consensual sex, which I would describe a porn but not hardcore porn, would be seriously damaging to children. But the violence, simulated or real, common in hardcore porn is very frightening for children who do not understand the world but know that they are weak, uninformed and defenceless. I would ezpect it to be seriously traumatising for a majority of pre-pubescent children,

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    2. Re:Special pleading by mmell · · Score: 1

      You need to find a better adult bookstore. Any depiction which includes penetration is generally considered hardcore porn. Hell, I know a lot of people who consider Game of Thrones to be hardcore porn.

    3. Re:Special pleading by AlecC · · Score: 1

      Which shows that the word is undefined. But I would expect, whatever the actual details, "hardcore" means unsuitable for broadcast TV. I would agree that GoT might be defined as porn, but is being broadcastable automatically makes it not hardcore. My definitions would not include anything transparently consensual as hardcore, but explicit portrayal of sex is porn. But the "hard" in "hardcore" implies some level of violence or coercion.

      Anyway, I introduced the word into the conversation, and what I means was the sort of non-consensual violent porn which I think would be damaging to children. Whatever the words used, there are some extreme images which are capable of damaging children. While I accept that consenting adults should be able to access such stuff via moderately protected channels on the internet or similar, they should not, as the OP suggested, be transmitted free to air on any wavelengths the transmitter chooses, including those already in use for domestic TV. There is a need for a regulator of some sort - though the rulebook for that regulator is not obvious.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    4. Re:Special pleading by mmell · · Score: 1
      I'll go along with you this far - when a licensed broadcaster has their signal's integrity compromised by an individual broadcaster that's a violation of law. I agree completely with the concept of allocating bandwidth to commercial entities with the attendant regulation concerning what they're allowed to say and how.

      Now, when I'm told that I may not use any bandwidth until I pay and submit to those same rules, that's censorship. Your "think of the children" argument doesn't hold water. They may have removed the knobs from my television, but there's still a button on the damned thing - unless it's 1984 and nobody told me.

    5. Re:Special pleading by tepples · · Score: 1

      I would agree that GoT might be defined as porn, but is being broadcastable automatically makes it not hardcore.

      Game of Thrones is not shown on broadcast television. It requires a subscription to limited basic cable television plus HBO plus (on many cable systems) expanded basic cable television.

  8. Efficient modulation by tepples · · Score: 1

    You cannot buy or manufacture more electromagnetic spectrum

    But you can use the spectrum you have far more efficiently, with more directional antennas, more efficient channel modulation, spatial multiplexing through MIMO, etc. Legacy modes used in the AM and FM broadcast bands, for example, are horribly inefficient compared to modern digital modes.

    1. Re:Efficient modulation by AlecC · · Score: 1

      Of course. But the OP was suggesting people should be free to do whatever they wanted - which would include using bandwidth wastefully and overwhelmingly (i.e. at high power). Hence the need for some form of regulator to enforce the use of efficient modes, and power levels no more than necessary, not as the OP implied at complete liberty.

      I agree that modern technology makes possible a greater variety and greater number of uses of the available bandwidth. All the more reason for a good regulator to share it efficiently

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
  9. Everyone uses encryption right now anyway by citizenr · · Score: 1, Informative

    and its called Dstar, only way to "legally" decrypt it is to buy decryption module from DVSI or whole radio from Icom.

    Dstar is a proprietary, patented and closed protocol using another patented and closed vocoder (ambe).

    --
    Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    1. Re:Everyone uses encryption right now anyway by Zondar · · Score: 1

      And PACTOR 3 / PACTOR 4.

    2. Re:Everyone uses encryption right now anyway by cdwiegand · · Score: 2

      No, it's NOT ENCRYPTION. It's ENCODING. I can go out, buy a DSTAR radio, and copy your conversations, without needing any encryption key from you. Encryption would be where I need a pin or other code to decode your message successfully, where not having that information from you would prevent me from monitoring your transmissions. DSTAR, DMR/MOTOTRBO, Codec2, etc., are all encodings, just like PSK31. I can't verbally copy PSK31, but I can buy a device (laptop) to decode your messages without further input from you, so it's not ENCRYPTION.

      --
      . Define sqrt(x) as something really evil like (x / rand()), and bury it deep. Watch your coworkers go nuts.
    3. Re:Everyone uses encryption right now anyway by dbc · · Score: 1

      Pedantically correct, you are. But... why is a proprietary CODEC allowed in the ham bands? I can't go out and build a D-STAR compatible radio because of that. Proprietary CODECs should not get FCC type acceptance for amateur radio, as it conflicts the the "basis and purpose" wording of the enabling legislation. *grump*

      Encryption, OTOH, is kind of a big deal now for emergency communications. In the USA, hospitals have traditionally been both big supporters of and big clients of amateur radio emergency communications groups such as RACES and ARES. HIPAA has put a very large kink in that -- being able to encrypt patient information would make that a non-issue, but as things currently stand HIPAA regulations are a giant trip-wire for anyone passing information in the clear. Amateur radio would benefit greatly from changes to part 97 that allowed health/welfare information to be encrypted for emergency communications.

    4. Re:Everyone uses encryption right now anyway by citizenr · · Score: 1

      No, it's NOT ENCRYPTION. It's ENCODING. I can go out, buy a DSTAR radio

      oh, so you need to go and "buy decryption module from DVSI or whole radio from Icom"? its almost like I said the same thing...

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
  10. International implications? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OK, if OFCOM wants to keep this within the UK, I really have a hard time caring. However, any ham radio activities that transmit signals outside the borders of the UK should be unencrypted.

    They CAN be encoded, with well known codes and modulation, but encryption is right out.

    The US FCC looked at this about a year ago and most of the response came to that conclusion.

  11. This sounds really good, but it isn't by chubs · · Score: 2

    Allowing encryption on the ham bands sounds like a great idea, especially to slashdotters, because we all really love the idea of our government not being able to listen to everything we say. Unfortunately, there are a lot of governments who really don't like that idea. The only reason Ham operators in your favorite semi-free country of choice can talk to people in much less free parts of the world is because of the ban on encryption. If the UK allows encrypted signals over ham, and a UK ham operator can get signals hitting all over the world, you better believe the Iranian, Chinese, and all other heavy-handed governments that make no effort to hide their censorship efforts will start rounding up ham equipment because who knows what sort of ideas are streaming in from the UK.
    Global encryption bans are the only thing allowing ham to operate in large portions of the country. All it takes is one country lifting that ban to spoil it for everyone. There are plenty of other avenues for those who want to encrypt their communications.

    1. Re:This sounds really good, but it isn't by ai4px · · Score: 1

      You really lost me there..... Voice of America hasn't stopped heavy handed governments from rounding up AM radios has it? Well, maybe in N Korea. But they've already restricted ALL radios anyway, so encryption making a difference is moot.

  12. Talk about redundant... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. The regulator also intends to permit the use of encryption

    Why bother?, they already spout a lot of incomprehensible garbage at each other...

  13. this leads me to a question. by nblender · · Score: 1

    I have an APRS transceiver sending telemetry from my cottage; mostly so I know whether I need to get in the car and drive out there to address either water in the basement or pipes about to freeze... Soon I'll be able to send commands and receive responses (like raise the temperature because I'm en-route, or turn on the irrigation system, or whatever)... I don't want any old shmuck to mess with my stuff so I thought about encrypting the text in my APRS message with a pre-shared key and calling it a day... Does that qualify as verboten?

    1. Re:this leads me to a question. by Ozoner · · Score: 1

      It depends on the country, but in general it's OK to encrypt control codes, but not OK to encrypt data. Although shared keys probably fix the problem.

    2. Re:this leads me to a question. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Encrpyting the message is illegal in most places, but simply add a digital signature. Everyone can read the message, but cannot spoof it.

    3. Re:this leads me to a question. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could probably add a checksum to your message, calculated using your own home-grown algorithm. This would in a way verify the sender, though easily broken if someone wished to crack it.
      The command and receive responses sounds like a neat concept. Care to share, or point others interested to a website that details this process?

    4. Re:this leads me to a question. by nblender · · Score: 1

      It's not really code that's applicable to anyone else, probably. It's embedded in a bunch of python that mindlessly runs my cottage.. I have an RCS TR-60 thermostat out there that has an RS-485 port to which I can send commands and requests stats. I also have an Etherrain/8 which runs my sprinkler valves... I have a WaterBug water sensor, and some other miscellaneous arduino things to monitor my well pump controller, etc...

      My APRS transceiver is a Microtrak4 and it has a serial port as well. So I monitor the stream looking for messages from me-1 to me-9...

  14. Pedo Alert!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The "Children are are born aware of sexuality" argument is one that is usually only made by pedophiles to justify their child rape.

  15. Old geezers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tuning the HAM bands you seem to only encounter old geezers (70 years or older) that go on and on and on about, well, nothing really. They talk to the same (local, mostly) people, and have been doing that for the last few decades. Nothing left to say, but still saying it.

    Newly starting amateurs are actively shunned. If you're not part of the incrowd, they don't want to talk to you. And certainly not about anything HAM related.

    It's ridiculous.