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US Patent Office Seeking Consultant That Can Stamp Out Fraud By Patent Examiners

McGruber writes: A month after Slashdot discussed "Every Day Is Goof-Off-At-Work Day At the US Patent and Trademark Office," the USPTO issued a statement that it is "committed to taking any measures necessary" to stop employees who review patents from lying about their hours and getting overtime pay and bonuses for work they didn't do.

USPTO officials also told congressional investigators that they are seeking an outside consulting firm to advise them on how managers can improve their monitoring of more than 8,000 patent examiners. The Patent Examiners union responded to the original Washington Post report with a statement that includes this line: "If 'thousands' of USPTO employees were not doing their work, it would be impossible for this agency to be producing the best performance in recent memory and, perhaps, in its entire 224 year history."

In related news, USPTO Commissioner Deborah Cohn has announced plans to resign just months after a watchdog agency revealed that she had pressured staffers to hire the live-in boyfriend of an immediate family member over other, better-qualified applicants. When he finished 75th out of 76 applicants in the final round of screening, Cohn "intervened and created an additional position specifically for the applicant," wrote Inspector General Todd Zinser in a statement on the matter.

124 comments

  1. Ask the US Postal Service by PPH · · Score: 2

    Little catwalks with one-way mirrors in the sorting facilities. So inspectors can see who is stealing, screwing off, etc.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by Cassini2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Management 101: If you don't trust your employees - you are screwed. You need committed and motivated employees, and you must take actions to keep the employees committed and motivated.

      CEO 101: Employee problems are management problems.

      Financial Investor 101: A bad CEO can wreck the company.

      The USPTO has experienced all three problems, and financial investors in lots of different tech companies have paid dearly.

    2. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      I bet this is part of why "going postal" is part of the American lexicon.

    3. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Sure. But lawyers have made out like bandits. I wonder how many lawyers are patent examiners?

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    4. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by PPH · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The USPTO has experienced all three problems, and financial investors in lots of different tech companies have paid dearly.

      That's the principle behind government: They play with other people's money, other people's intellectual property, other people's freedoms. So when they f*ck up, other people suffer.

      It's called sovereign immunity.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My postmen can't count, or read, or something. I get my neighbors mail and vice-versa, sometimes mail from miles away. Complaining doesn't work, even to USPS headquarters, It just pisses them off and they "accidentally" rip my outbound mail in half.

    6. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      They should perhaps pay patent examiners some money annually for each patent that is passed, and take away that money and then some if they're partially or completely overturned. That way they've an incentive to work quickly, and a disincentive to do sloppy work.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    7. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by IANAAC · · Score: 1
      Maybe you're not old enough to remember...

      In the 80s/early 90s there was a string of postal workers freaking out and subsequently shooting office co-workers.

    8. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Yes. Now continue the train of thought.

    9. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      Real life 101: If you cannot hold people accountable, they will goof off.

    10. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Not at all. Banks are doing great and they by definition cannot trust their employees.

      It's all about proper security measures being implemented to counter the risk.

    11. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Again this would lead to corruption with patent pre-screening and favoured people getting patentable stuff and unfavoured people getting junk and working for free.

      I'll bet core of this problem is yet again right wing performance based measures ie number of patents reviewed and approved. Everyone time right wing idiots do performance based measures it fucks things up. Performance based law enforcement, people get arrested for nothing, law enforcement is in a rush, slow them down and get tasered or shot, so minimum number of arrests per day leads directly to maximum number of million dollar lawsuits great bloody saving, huh. Performance based schooling means, directly leads to stacking classes for select charters schools and teachers with better performing students and sticking the poor performing students in poor schools with cheap teachers, yep, that is going to produce results.

      Stop filling government departments with political appointees, especially management positions, that is the single greatest cause of failure and of course directly leads to even idiots can monitor performance based guidelines, yep, manage them right into the ground.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    12. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure tampering with federal mail is a crime...

    13. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by SeaFox · · Score: 2

      Management 101: If you don't trust your employees - you are screwed

      That''s how every business operates now, though. Employees are always under surveillance because the management doesn't trust them not to steal from them in one way or another. Either by actual supply/money theft, or by not working hard enough when on the clock.

      And funny enough, employers have actually made the situation worse on themselves. If they want to know why they can't trust the employees to be "committed and motivated", look no further than the modern low wage, low appreciation, low potential for advancement employment they offer. When you're not paying people enough to make ends meet, don't be surprised when they look for ways to supplement their income.

    14. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      How about when you file for a patent it's only a registry, no checks or validity or anything (like now?). And every single time you attempt to use the patent in court it can be challenged (and possibly declared invalid). The government still gets their money, the patent office can continue with their no value added business model, and everyone else can fight the patent trolls in court on an even footing.

    15. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by Bengie · · Score: 2

      Tellers at a bank could be completely rep[laced with ATMs or the like. You don't need to trust people much when their jobs are pointless. When you depend on someone's skill, and you don't trust them, that's when you have issues.

      People don't work well as a team when there is no trust.

    16. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by arvindsg · · Score: 2

      Democracy 101:an ignorant citizen wrecks himself and others

    17. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by Seumas · · Score: 1

      But then we need another layer of catwalks to watch the watchers.

    18. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      You still can't accept the fact that Obama has been in office for five years, and accomplished nothing he promised in regards to improving the government.

      If the problem was simply that Bush had appointed idiots to run departments, Obama could have flushed most of them out immediately, and forced the rest to be replaced by now. Except of course, that would require two things: time spent doing his job rather than golfing, ability to actually be an executive.

      As Micheal Moore recently said, one hundred years from now Obama's record is going to be, "He was the first black president."

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    19. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      No no. Ex-co-workers.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    20. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      It's catwalks all the way up.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    21. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Well, its also called union.

    22. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Except Clinton already claimed that one.

    23. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Not exactly true. Bank managers generally do trust the tellers but have to have all kinds of systems in place as a requirement for being insured. It is a CYA because the ones that will hurt you the most are the ones you trust. Banks could lose far more to a teller stealing from them than they ever could from an off-the-street robber. Further, much of the surveillance is also to protect the teller from the dishonest customer. Having a video record of what the teller hands the customer helps keep customers from invalid claims of having been shorted. It also helps when legitimate mistakes are made such as a busy teller handling to different drive-up lanes and losing focus and sending each lane the other lanes money. I've had a bank teller tell me about the video being used for all three situations: dishonest employee, dishonest customer and employee mistake.

    24. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      only if you can prove it really wasn't the "sorting machine" that ripped it up.

    25. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Actually no sane bank trusts tellers. That's why you have multiple ways of recording everything teller does.

      Same thing with cashiers in retail and countless others.

      You concept of "must trust everyone on the team" is frankly ridiculous. Opportunity makes a thief.

    26. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by sillybilly · · Score: 1

      Obama accomplished something. He got elected as a colored person, and got reelected too. He also brought some troops home. And he cares, true he may care more about blacks than whites and discriminates that way, but in general he cares about everybody, even is he's clumsy in the way he goes about it. It's not easy to do the right thing at the top when you don't know what the right thing is and nobody knows. I mean you may think you know, and even be certain about it, and then you need to review why the Oracle at Delphi told Socrates he was the wisest man alive.

    27. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by sillybilly · · Score: 1

      Except I cannot purchase a money order at an ATM, without talking to a teller. And my landlord has the habit of sitting on checks for a whole fucking year, before it hits my bank account, and plays this cat and mouse game or memory, see how much you can remember, what checks you wrote out 6 months ago. So I get a money order, it instantly gets deducted, and I send it off to him in the mail, just like it says in the rental contract, which specifies mailed payments, not paypal or anything like that. And I told him if he don't get the money orders, and fails to inform me, it's on him, I'm not writing them out again for a whole year, unlike when he sits on un-cashed checks, and hammers my account after a year. It also says in the contract I can't touch the furnace, can't modify things in the house, landlord cuts the grass but does not shovel snow, and he has not increased the rent for 7 years, unlike in a lot of other places you move into with yearly leases and yearly increases. He was still happy when I told him the city knocked my junk house down with an excavator, he said it's amazing how quickly they get that stuff done. Yeah, it's fucking amazing how I have to keep paying him rent, it must be very amazing to him.

    28. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by sillybilly · · Score: 1

      I bought that stupid house at a public auction. It was good enough for me, even if the city thinks it's not appropriate for me, and knocked it down for me, it did not live up to their standards of luxury. If anybody had a problem with me buying it at too low a price, they were welcome to show up at the auction and pay more, but other than that I care not about level of luxury as long as it's a roof over my head that keeps the rain out, and my most important luxury item is keeping my own bank account balance above zero, unlike the government that has run rampant with destruction, dragging other people into debt by charging them for that destruction, and unable to keep their own bank account balance above zero. Fuck the government, take the money from one guy, kill him with it, give it to another welfare recipient to breed out of control and vote you down at elections. Time for some tea bagger party motherfuckers that cut the government cancer out of everyday people's life.

    29. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and corporation. Don't forget that the entire point of the corporate contract is to indemnify owners against personal liability for actions taken by the company.

    30. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      During the 70's and 80's a large number of Vietnam vets were hired because they were given extra points for their service. Post Traumatic Stress isn't far from going Postal.

    31. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's see....

      - Blaming the "others" for all problems
      - Suggesting obvious solutions that don't work
      - Plenty of namecalling of everyone you hate

      Tolerant caring liberal alert!!!!

    32. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Addendum: Please see the definition and history of the idiom "go postal."

    33. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      > Again this would lead to corruption with patent pre-screening and favoured people getting patentable stuff and unfavoured people getting junk and working for free.

      No, I'm not saying that they would get paid only for passing patents. They would get paid for examining patents. It's just they would get paid more for being successful patent clerks; for passing patents that are enforceable and novel.

      And the patents could be assigned randomly from the pool of patent clerks that accept the patents.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    34. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      It doesn't seem like a good idea, challenging patents in court is likely to be a lot more expensive than any patent clerk could ever be.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    35. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      "They should perhaps pay patent examiners some money annually for each patent that is passed"

      They do. That's the problem. There's no incentive to be overly critical on an application because you don't get paid if you reject it.

      They also get paid more for examining more patents in a given period, which has the same effect.

      The other problem (not enough work) is a direct result of "featherbedding" - managers with more employees under them end up with higher pay grades. This happens in large corporates but far more often in govt departments.

    36. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1

      How about not quoting me out of context?

      "... and take away that money and then some if they're partially or completely overturned"

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    37. Re:Ask the US Postal Service by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      I'm not.

      The problem is you have to pay your examiners evenhandedly for _rejecting_ applications as well as accepting them.

      Taking money away afterwards isn't going to help nearly as much as decent statistical modelling of what should be average and then taking a much closer look at examiners who appear to be gaming the system (it's possible to pick up "gaming" to appear average too.)

      The reason is that the interval between patent approval and court overturn may well be a decade or more. People simply don't think that far ahead when operating in a fraudulent manner.

  2. Ms. Cohn was at USPTO since 1983 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    according to her bio. Most likely, her entire professional career after law school.

    It seems that one only see tenures like that nowadays in government, or in a family owned business. At least in the case of a business we have the pressures of the market which can topple a business that falls too far behind. A government agency can continue for decades with the same inefficient practices without any kind of market correction, with the same cronyism, the same cushy pensions (instead of 401Ks) and sick days and vacation day rollovers. It's like a sports team that didn't keep track of wins or losses, so at the end of each year the coach would say "we're working damn hard, and getting good results." How would anybody know?

    1. Re:Ms. Cohn was at USPTO since 1983 by Demonantis · · Score: 1

      I can't believe this was voted up. I know quite a few people that have worked for the same company almost his or her whole life and it isn't a government position. One started as a mail clerk and is now a director. Bad actors are bad actors in any organization. The length of employment has zero bearing.

    2. Re:Ms. Cohn was at USPTO since 1983 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i work in govt and there are no long-term goals to track. everything is short-term. "there are XX work tickets open this week" kind of stuff, albeit on many different scales. leadership cares about regularly-reported metrics being 'green' and not about problems being fixed. its all about sustainment, and any large-scale analysis or tracking goes to some other organization in the sky and there never appears to be any impact even if non-green is repeatedly reported.

      consequently, there are many many workers in govt that are able to laze about and be ineffective because they either dont cause any problems or all their metrics are 'green' (regardless of legitimacy). there are all kinds of ways to game the system, and the govt makes it incredibly difficult to remove these people. if someone can handle personally being an absolute waste of taxpayer money, there is a long career in govt waiting for them as long as they can get their foot in the door.

    3. Re:Ms. Cohn was at USPTO since 1983 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not saying that Ms. Cohn is stupid or corrupt, it's just that when you spend your entire professional career in one organization - and the USPTO is a rather small organization at that - you tend to lose perspective of the changes going on in the business world around you, and what the expectations are for productivity. There have been massive changes over the past three decades, not just in technology, but in individual responsibility and expectations for throughput and turnaround. Having lots of employees working from home and not showing much in the way of results was the way things were done in much of the '90s, but that's pretty much gone now. Being able to "make room" for an incompetent relative on the payroll might have been the way things were done back in the day, but that's over in the private sector; it survives in government at various levels. And retiring on comfortable pensions was the norm in the '70s and early '80s, but again, that mostly only survives in government, since the taxpayer is the sugar daddy.

  3. I have a method by Livius · · Score: 1

    to eliminate patent examiner fraud. The method, of course, is patented.

    1. Re:I have a method by Teresita · · Score: 4, Funny

      Not every patent office flunkie can go on to write important papers on relativity.

    2. Re:I have a method by _merlin · · Score: 4, Funny

      If it's patented, you're compelled to publish your method. Are you confusing patents with trade secrets?

    3. Re:I have a method by byornski · · Score: 1

      And then only 20 years since his ./ comment!

  4. OY by Patent+Lover · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Good grief. The IG report involved a dozen or so examiners. The actual number is not stated There are over 8,000 examiners at the PTO. Gimme a friggin break.

    1. Re:OY by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      One bad patent has significant financial impact for the country. We will give you a break when you can cover the loss. Each time.

    2. Re:OY by Patent+Lover · · Score: 1

      Over 200,00 patents granted a year. Once agiain, give us a break.

    3. Re:OY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Over 200,00 patents granted a year. Once agiain, give us a break.

      Either the comma is in the wrong place, or a 0 is missing. Typical example of not even the very basic stuff being checked as part of a patent

    4. Re:OY by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Well, this page says there are actually about 300,000 patents across 3 categories, plus an additional 150,000 to "foreign residents". So that's about 450,000.

      Also, the applications for patents is about double those numbers.

      Factor that by 8,000 patent examiners, and they each both approve and disapprove just over one per week.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    5. Re:OY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Factor that by 8,000 patent examiners, and they each both approve and disapprove just over one per week.

      So they both approve and disapprove the same one patent? Or maybe you actually mean approve OR disapprove. Accuracy and the patent process just don't seem to be connected in any way.

      Anyway, that's just the first 10 minutes of Monday morning taken care off, what do they do for the rest of the week?

    6. Re:OY by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
      IG compliants are like cockroaches, if you see one there are probably another 100 or so waiting to be discovered. After 20 years working in the gov't most of the negative comments I see here are true. You have about 10% that are doing a great job, the next half do the bulk of the grunt work. The last 50% are made up of substandard workers. If you fired the bottom 20% on any given day the only thing you'd noticed at work would be the availability of more parking spots in the morning and possibly the productivity would go up since management could spend more time training and less time on personnel (off duty/discipline) issues.

      Contracting out the work would improve it somewhat, but it would still have metric chasing issues.

    7. Re:OY by sillybilly · · Score: 1

      It would take me a whole year to just read through them 450,000 patent titles, let alone comprehend their meaning, let alone read their text, let alone comprehend their intent, let alone debate in my mind of the validity of any claims. Anything you do in this world might infringe on someone's patent, in fact they can submarine patents under that flood of patents, it's easy to hide something new that wasn't there before, pretending it was issued years ago, right when you do something brand new that has never been done before, and they wanna come harass you to stop doing it. Even if their patent does not apply, they can take you to court and then it's a game of who's got the deeper pockets to fight a patent battle, not a game of who's right who's wrong. I say fuck patents completely, abolish the patent system, it has degenerated into absolute waste of everybody's time and money. Go back to the nomadic intellectual property ways of 1500, and keep trade secrets if you feel like you need to. Which you can do even today anyway, with patents.

    8. Re:OY by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      No, I don't mean "or". I mean "and". They approve one patent, and they disapprove one patent. They do both, just as the sentence says.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    9. Re:OY by Patent+Lover · · Score: 1

      If you fired half of the GS-15 supervisors you wouldn't notice anything. Examiners are on production and actually get cases out the door. Show me another government agency where they actually have to produce, as opposed to just show up (including Congress).

    10. Re:OY by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      "If you fired the bottom 20% on any given day the only thing you'd noticed at work would be the availability of more parking spots in the morning and possibly the productivity would go up since management could spend more time training and less time on personnel (off duty/discipline) issues."

      Management would notice it, because it reduces the number of people under them, so their pay grade might be diminished.

      That's why it's so bloody hard to ratchet staffing levels down in govt departments.

  5. Nepotism??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    In related news, USPTO Commissioner Deborah Cohn has announced plans to resign just months after a watchdog agency revealed that she had pressured staffers to hire the live-in boyfriend of an immediate family member over other, better-qualified applicants. When he finished 75th out of 76 applicants in the final round of screening, Cohn "intervened and created an additional position specifically for the applicant," wrote Inspector General Todd Zinser in a statement on the matter.

    I happen to be Ms. Cohn's boyfriend from this article (posting AC for obvious reasons). I worked very hard to earn my newly created post. No nepotism of any kind came into play at all. I completely deserve this job, especially considering all the bedroom hours put in. I deserve my 'new attorney advisor' position ( http://www.federaltimes.com/ar... ). I hope I don't get fired over this...

    1. Re:Nepotism??!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, I'm the boyfriend of a relative of hers..... "Rep. Blake Farenthold, Texas Republican, didn’t mention Trademark Commissioner Deborah Cohn by name, but he clearly referenced her when summarizing a report by the Commerce Department inspector general at a hearing Friday. The report found she helped an applicant — the live-in boyfriend of a close relative — land an attorney’s job in the agency despite being ranked at the bottom of the pool of applicants." http://www.washingtontimes.com...

    2. Re:Nepotism??!! by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Reference checking. How does that work?

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  6. This is not a new or unique problem by rickb928 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Though it is complicated by the government service issue, there are ways to measure performance...

    - Salt the case load with fictitious, bogus applications intended to be declined. In fact, this can both detect work that is disingenuous, and start applying some quality checks. Applications that are so flawed as to be obvious can be expected to fall through as approved if examiners are just phoning it in.

    - Break up the review process, no insight into the next step for any examiner. At some point, some examiners will be doing too little work to keep up, or the backlog will inspire some investigation. Perhaps.

    - This is an oldie. Full tracking of the examiner's work, down to the keystroke.

    - Even older, time to put up the performance chart. Peer pressure will probably not work in Civil Service, but it's a valiant try nonetheless.

    Now, the real trick is how to measure performance. That scares me.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    1. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by The+New+Guy+2.0 · · Score: 1

      The problem here is not dishonest work on the patent logs, it's dishonest work on the time cards/sheets that tell the bosses how much to pay. Uhm, some computer logging software is about to fall off the patent logs for 14 years being up!

    2. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by jonsmirl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is that the patent office is a papermill and the number of patents being granted has be growing at around 5% a year compounded for the last 25 years. I'm pretty certain that the number of patentable inventions found each year is not growing at 5%. Instead the definition of what is patentable keeps expanding into areas where it doesn't belong. The growth mainly benefits patent lawyers and patent office employees. We've gone from granting 100,000 patents a year 20 years ago to 300,000 a year now.

      Do a little projecting out - if that same growth is maintained in 20 years they'll be granting 900,000 patents a year. And we'll have a pool of 12 million active patents to deal with. To support all that you'll need 25,000 or more examiners. Of course patent infringement lawsuits will be totally out of control - no human can be expected to know the contents of 12M patents and not infringe on them. Heck, I can only read three or four before my head explodes.

      The simple fix is to limit the patent office to granting a fixed number of patents each month. And I'd set that limit at 10,000 or less per month. Doing that stabilizes the number of employees at the patent office. And do you really believe there are 10,000 inventions made each month worthy of patent protection? I sure don't believe that there are that many. I'd set the limit even lower - 5,000 or less. Setting the limit lower simply gets rid of the junk and makes the ones that do get granted more valuable.

    3. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by Patent+Lover · · Score: 2

      So in other words, add a shit load of costs for no real gain. Perhaps become a part of the DoD?

    4. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

      Though it is complicated by the government service issue, there are ways to measure performance...

      - Salt the case load with fictitious, bogus applications intended to be declined. In fact, this can both detect work that is disingenuous, and start applying some quality checks. Applications that are so flawed as to be obvious can be expected to fall through as approved if examiners are just phoning it in.

      - Break up the review process, no insight into the next step for any examiner. At some point, some examiners will be doing too little work to keep up, or the backlog will inspire some investigation. Perhaps.

      - This is an oldie. Full tracking of the examiner's work, down to the keystroke.

      - Even older, time to put up the performance chart. Peer pressure will probably not work in Civil Service, but it's a valiant try nonetheless.

      Now, the real trick is how to measure performance. That scares me.

      There's no need to salt the system with bogus applications. Simply review a sample of each employees work.

    5. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by pepty · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Though it is complicated by the government service issue, there are ways to measure performance...

      - Salt the case load with fictitious, bogus applications intended to be declined. In fact, this can both detect work that is disingenuous, and start applying some quality checks. Applications that are so flawed as to be obvious can be expected to fall through as approved if examiners are just phoning it in.

      - Break up the review process, no insight into the next step for any examiner. At some point, some examiners will be doing too little work to keep up, or the backlog will inspire some investigation. Perhaps.

      - This is an oldie. Full tracking of the examiner's work, down to the keystroke.

      - Even older, time to put up the performance chart. Peer pressure will probably not work in Civil Service, but it's a valiant try nonetheless.

      Now, the real trick is how to measure performance. That scares me.

      - The first would waste 1 or 2 days of patent examiner time per bogus application. On top of that, each bogus application could only be used a handful of times before they were known throughout the section, so the ~$10-50K it would take to hire patent agents to create each bogus application would add up quickly. Copypasta applications would be too easy to spot, as would ones that are quickly thrown together. A 500 page patent application from a pharma is not something you just whiz together overnight. A better bet might be to just assign the same application to two examiners 5% of the time and then compare the first office actions they submit. That would work so long as examiners can't compare their caseloads ...

      - Breaking up the review process would mean that many patent examiners would have to familiarize themselves with each patent as opposed to just one. That could easily double or triple the man hours necessary to examine each patent, and significantly delay each office action. Which is why I suggested only duplicating the effort 5% of the time.

      - Full tracking of their workload would be a PITA all around. A program that monitors how many hours are actually spent on each portion of the examination, as well as when those hours are spent, would be good enough.

      - Performance charts, monitoring, rank and yank, etc: might work in biotech and organic chemistry sections where there is no shortage of qualified applicants, but in IT if you make the working conditions any more unpleasant everyone will just head off to the private sector. If you want examiners willing and able to work like patent attorneys, you'll have to compete on the patent attorney pay scale ($250k per year and up).

    6. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's already mostly salt, anyways.

    7. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by pepty · · Score: 2

      The priority date is the date the application is filed, not the day the patent is granted. This would just create a huge backlog of submarine patents that would come back to bite people later. That or everyone would just file with WIPO first.

    8. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      Keep a pool of about two months worth of patents that might meet the bar of being granted. Then reject the rest. The value of a patent is inversely correlated to how many patents are being granted. When there are fewer patents on better ideas, those patents will be respected and fulfill the original purpose that inspired the creation of patents.

      Software patents are just totally broken. It is far, far too easy for a good software engineer to infringe dozens of patents through independent invention. And no one is going to go read through 100,000 patents and become aware of what has already been patented. So no one knows that they have "infringed" until they get a demand letter in the mail. Then of course they gag on licensing demands over something they have also spent resources on developing.

    9. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I already patented the business process of salting applications thanks to a slack examiner. Pay up!

    10. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, the real trick is how to measure performance. That scares me.

      This is the problem, performance is measured by approved patents.

    11. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      Though it is complicated by the government service issue, there are ways to measure performance...

      You forgot the most important measure of performance: income generated for the Patent Office. The fake attempt at reigning in employees is just to distract from what the real problem is: the more patents, the more profit for the USPTO.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    12. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to ask, why even have a patent office anymore?

      They were to advance knowlege by avoid the secretive guilds of the middle ages or such? I would seriously consider pulling them except for pharmaceuticals and a few other niches cases.

      http://research.stlouisfed.org/wp/2012/2012-035.pdf

    13. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by Tailhook · · Score: 1

      Now, the real trick is how to measure performance.

      They've already done that. It's right there in the summary; "the best performance in recent memory and, perhaps, in its entire 224 year history."

      So obviously they are rigorously measuring their stellar performance ... otherwise how could they make that sort of claim?

      What? You don't think that's credible? You must be one of those tea bag knuckle-dragger anti-government types. The rest of us know better than to question the noble creatures inhabiting our sacred government.

      <sarcasm, you dolts>

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    14. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Well, I guess the answer is to prosecute the people fudging their time sheets. I mean really, this is a crime. Or at least it appears to be. And once people understand there would be criminal penalties, perhaps they would simply be honest.

      http://www.law.cornell.edu/usc...

      Whoever, knowingly and with intent to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof, possesses any false, altered, forged, or counterfeited writing or document for the purpose of enabling another to obtain from the United States, or from any agency, officer or agent thereof, any sum of money, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

      Submitting false time records in order to get pay you did not earn seems to meet this exactly..

    15. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by pepty · · Score: 1

      Keep a pool of about two months worth of patents that might meet the bar of being granted. Then reject the rest.

      I don't understand what that means; I'm not certain you do either. First of all, til SCOTUS or the USPTO say otherwise, all patent applications either meet the requirements or don't. How exactly is the USPTO supposed to play favorites? Hire a contractor to pick "good" patents"? Plus there's the other problem: unless you get about 147 other countries to go along with this plan, PCT patents applied for through WIPO internationally are enforceable in the US.

    16. Re: This is not a new or unique problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont see how that would work as patents legally have to be granted on all inventions including bad inventions as long as they are not already patented/publicly disclosed or obvious in view of other patents/publicly disclosures. There are lots of applications for bad inventions.

    17. Re: This is not a new or unique problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No patent examiner performance is measured by applications "disposed of". Examiner are equally happy if an application is abandoned or allowed.

    18. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Union protects the criminal not the employer.

    19. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by JBMcB · · Score: 1

      Work reviews - like code reviews. Everyone "shows their work" to everyone else, and everything gets reviewed, every week. Less optimal than individual workers working at peak efficiency, but more optimal than most people screwing around with no oversight whatsoever.

      --
      My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    20. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly.
      Or even better: have teams of reviewers work together on the same application. The review and oversight will then be part of the process.
      Why should only one person review a patent application? Different people will have different viewpoints, and any dips in individual performance will average out over the team.

    21. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by Herkum01 · · Score: 1

      I don't even believe that you have to use Bogus applications, I think you can resubmit rejected applications with slight alterations. Then you can compare the original submission results with the new submission results and see the differences. If someone is not doing the work, it should be obvious based upon the underlying research for acceptance or rejection.

    22. Re: This is not a new or unique problem by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      So the answer your propose is to arbitrarily limit demand. I would expect many rejected applicants to be on court with valid complaints that their application was never considered on its merits, as should be expected by law. You shift the work from the PTO to the courts. Stupid.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    23. Re: This is not a new or unique problem by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      Shifting it to the courts is a very effective filter. Most of the rejected applications will not get appealed since they aren't worth the burden of the cost of the appeal. But the PTO may make mistakes and this would allow them to remedy those mistakes.

      An alternative would be to allow for reapplication with the same priority date but require the inclusion of more evidence of why the patent should be granted. Of course if the PTO still doesn't believe it makes the cut into the 10K a month it will get rejected again.

      The trade off for granting a patent is disclosure. Something valuable - a government monopoly - is granted in exchange for this disclosure. So why doesn't anyone read patents to learn from this disclosure? A few may get read but most patents do not contain anything interesting to someone practicing in the field. I would say this demonstrates that the value in many patents is the ability to cause legal problems not the actual technology being disclosed.

    24. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by matfud · · Score: 1

      Not easily as there is quite a lot of back and forth comunication over a very long period of time (up to multiple years) before a patent is granted.

    25. Re: This is not a new or unique problem by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      I was responding to a proposal that cars be rejected outright, arbitrarily, and let the courts act as a filter to vet those, which would, to me, turn the court into a preliminary examiner. Such a waste, as the court should decide that that PTO ess negligent in merely refusing to accept applications dur to workload.

      And that would be negligent, and is. The PTO should perhaps work on streamlining the work, maybe automating the intake and initial comparison of applications to both competing and existing patents, and even developing specialists to more quickly identifying problems and making decisions.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    26. Re: This is not a new or unique problem by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      The bar for patents need to be raised much higher. One way of raising that bar is to simply limit the number being granted. Only grant a patent for something that truly is a significant invention. I don't believe anywhere close to 300,000 significant inventions are made each year.

      Imagine if we only granted 50 patents a year in each field allowing patents. 50 patents is a small enough number that humans working in these fields could be expected to know what is patented and to then respect those patents. (50 * 20 yrs = 1,000 patents). In this model the granting of a patent would be an event in the field, get press coverage and everyone would read the patent to learn about the new discovery. Everyone would know about these 50 patents, infringement would be rare and the value of the patents would be high.

      Instead we get 500 new patents a day in software and electronics. Nobody reads them and they just function as landmines when someone accidentally reinvents.

      Think of a patent as a mini-Nobel prize instead of cannon fodder for lawyers.

    27. Re: This is not a new or unique problem by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Your solution violates the Fourth Amendment at least.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    28. Re: This is not a new or unique problem by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      If they can't be limited then I'll settle for the PTO admitting that software is math (which it clearly is) and banning all software patents.

      In my opinion patents in software and electronics have perverted from promoting the arts and sciences to destroying them. Pretty sure the founding fathers didn't intent for 300,000 patents a year to be issued. It was 50 years before the PTO broke 500/yr.

    29. Re: This is not a new or unique problem by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what number, if any, the authors of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights had in mind. Change the rules in some fair, neutral eau of that dem the right way to do it, but arbitrary limits are stupid.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    30. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      A lot of the time a _good_ union(*) will tell an employee they don't have a leg to stand on when making bogus claims.

      It's not in their interest to back unreasonable demands, as it antagonises employers and other union members alike.

      (*) ie, not the Teamsters.

    31. Re:This is not a new or unique problem by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      or the NYC teacher's union or the UAW and all manner of other unions as well.

  7. Finally! by Krishnoid · · Score: 3, Funny

    When he finished 75th out of 76 applicants in the final round of screening, Cohn "intervened and created an additional position specifically for the applicant"

    It's about time! I can't believe they only now got around to creating a position dedicated to checking for a filing's obviousness.

    1. Re:Finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sounds like an obvious improvement, and they would have thought of it sooner had they a person dedicated to checking for obviousness.

  8. USPTO officials also told congressional investigators that they are seeking an outside consulting firm to advise them on how managers can improve their monitoring of more than 8,000 patent examiners. The Patent Examiners union responded to the original Washington Post report with a statement that includes this line: "If 'thousands' of USPTO employees were not doing their work, it would be impossible for this agency to be producing the best performance in recent memory and, perhaps, in its entire 224 year history."

    STUPID! This problem was solved years ago: when people commit fraud, you send them to a jail cell! The few overt miscreants suffer, while the rest are given cause to think twice. These officials are doing nothing more than complaining how hard their jobs are and setting up a smokescreen for their incompetence.

    And ... I'd really like to know by what standard the patent examiners claim to "be producing the best performance in recent memory". Their memory doesn't seem to be terribly reliable...

    When you really want to find misery, look first to the bureaucrats...

  9. I have a more effective method by MikeRT · · Score: 1

    Tell them that the leadership has had it with this culture and will start directing the Inspector General to arrest employees who behave in this fashion and charge them with defrauding the federal government. Throw their ass in prison, don't fire them. Contractors get charged with defrauding the federal government and it's no better when a federal employee does it, especially when overtime is involved.

    Everyone bitches about fraud, waste and abuse, but the majority of the people who'd unleash the various OIGs and FBI on the civil service are on the right. The moment that, say, a President Rand Paul ordered the OIG to decimate the workforce of the USPTO via prosecutions, you'd have every moderate and left-wing leader howling about how he's "anti-government" and this or that. How the poor civil service is under fire from those evil right wing, corporation-loving conservatives and libertarians.

    Look at the VA. The only people who want to bust the VA hard on the right.

  10. This happens sometimes... by The+New+Guy+2.0 · · Score: 2

    I had this problem at a place I used to work... we were an "answer the e-mail" schedule, and we went six weeks without anybody in our department getting any work commands for the system. I had no choice but to tell my boss the reason why I couldn't close any tickets was because I had no tickets. We checked, saw we were at zero usage, got laid off, and claimed half our pay for the next 99 weeks.

  11. I know Deborah Cohn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know Deborah Cohn! Her late father, Harry Cohn, was a scumbag at the Richmond law firm of Chaplin, Papa, Gonet. His favorite matters to handle were debt collection, and his modus operandi was to sue someone who had a similar name as on the debt. He would win every case by lying about having served paperwork against the supposed debtor, and of course, they couldn't show up to defend themselves at a hearing they had no knowledge about.

  12. Next = Examiner Competence in their field by BoRegardless · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have had an examiner on a recent patent application who was not knowledgable in the required physical-geometric structures.

    She insisted that a straight object was actually a helix! My patent attorney and I explained the difference, but she and her boss ignored the plain geometric truth and refused to budge and threw out my claims.

    I'ld rather have a high level of competence and accept some level of goofing off. You do need a break once in awhile to stay sane.

    1. Re:Next = Examiner Competence in their field by pepty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How did you phrase the claim? Regardless, it varies a lot from one section to the next based on the job market for the applicants. Biology/Pharma/Biotech/O-chem has had huge layoffs over the last 15 years, so there are plenty of PhDs with years of industrial experience, patent writing experience and perhaps a JD for each examiner position that opens up. Software and engineering, not so much.

    2. Re:Next = Examiner Competence in their field by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those of us who serve God and Jesus know that the only way to true salvation is through ignorance.

      You're not serving your god, you're simply hoping to be granted eternal salvation, thus your "service" to your faith is only service to your beliefs, hoping to avoid eternal punishment.

      By definition, you cannot serve your god because the threat of eternal punishment will see you act in your own self-interest.

      So it doesn't matter how much you believe, and how much spreading the word of your god you do, you're going to hell anyway because everything you do is out of fear of damnation.

    3. Re:Next = Examiner Competence in their field by pepty · · Score: 1

      Psst ... you're trolling too hard. Your fur is showing.

    4. Re:Next = Examiner Competence in their field by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you appeal? Did you amend the term "helix" to indicate that it was twisted? Examiners can't "throw out" your claims, and in fact, you get infinite chances to get it right (within the 20-year-from-filing patent term).

  13. Sounds "third-world" like... by bogaboga · · Score: 2

    ...she had pressured staffers to hire the live-in boyfriend of an immediate family member over other, better-qualified applicants. When he finished 75th out of 76 applicants in the final round of screening, Cohn "intervened and created an additional position specifically for the applicant...

    Can someone now say this is any different compared to what happens in those "third-world" countries? Seriously!!

    Now I believe the mantra, "It's who you know..."..."not how much you know or anything else..."

    1. Re:Sounds "third-world" like... by jbengt · · Score: 1

      Sounds more like private industry, where such behavior wouldn't even raise a hint of scandal.

  14. "best performance in recent memory" my ass. by Ken+McE · · Score: 1

    "If 'thousands' of USPTO employees were not doing their work, it would be impossible for this agency to be producing the best performance in recent memory and, perhaps, in its entire 224 year history."

    I tried to track down the reasoning behind a patent that has been recently issued covering growing plants by shining lights on them. The light bulb has been around since about 1880, and I expect we have been using them to grow plants since about 1881. You can't get anything out of them about how something has been approved by the system.

  15. Best performance? HAH! by Chas · · Score: 1

    "If 'thousands' of USPTO employees were not doing their work, it would be impossible for this agency to be producing the best performance in recent memory and, perhaps, in its entire 224 year history."

    No. No it wouldn't. Because you get behavior like this. Where they aren't actually looking at what they're SUPPOSED to be researching. They're, at best, skimming and passing it along, which takes minimal to no effort.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  16. step one by Revek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Make them come to work instead of working at home.

  17. Affirmative Action... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is the solution to all of this. We need to hire more minorities and unqualified workers. We should do this because it would be racist and backwards for organizations to only have the best and the brightest working for them. Is it not unfair to those who try and can't achieve simply because they lack the knowledge, wisdom, and IQ to perform certain jobs? Should we not lower the standards and get rid of those who are capable of performing the job so that those who are less capable can have a chance at success? Success should not just be something that is earned; success is something that all Americans have a right to have, regardless of whether or not they earned it. I voted for Barack Obama not because he was qualified to be the President of the USA, but rather because I knew that African-Americans had been suffering under the yoke of the white man for FAR TOO LONG, and they needed a true leader to lead them to the Promised Land. In other words, I voted for Obama because he was black. We all knew at the time that he had nothing else going for him. And that, my friends, is what makes America great. We don't promote or reward people based on merit; we do it because we know that the government will bail us out even if we fail miserably. God bless you all, and good night.

  18. market pressure, like goldman sachs, BOA.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    oh wait. did you realize that capitalism died in 2008? executed by a ultra-right-wing conservative, with the help of a banker and a former CEO.

    1. Re:market pressure, like goldman sachs, BOA.. by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      but I thought it was resuscitated by a community organizer with the help of some other former wall street management?

  19. This is not a new or unique problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    why bother how hard is it to have you best performance , when the policy is fee paid? rubber stamp!

  20. Indications of a corrupt system. by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

    It feels like this is just one indication that the patent system is corrupt. How can you prevent that a patent isn't going through an application process without a flaw?

    One way to weed out bad workers is to have a cross-examination of the patents. If there's a great deviation between the review results from the two reviewers (or three if you want to make it even safer) then it's an indication that one of the reviewers may not be doing his/her job. Of course - it's not a single patent that you can detect this on but a number of patents. So sometimes statistics is your friend - but it requires that the ones that review the statistics aren't corrupted.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  21. This requires external consultants...why? by bradley13 · · Score: 1

    Is the management at the USPTO so incompetent that they cannot do this themselves? If you are a manager, you know what your people are doing. If you don't, you should be fired. The solutions to this problem are bleedingly obvious, but unpalatable, so they need to spend millions paying someone else to give them the options, that they then won't implement...

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
  22. I just figured it out by donniecrump · · Score: 1

    I just figured out why the patent system is so screwed up. One word .. union.

  23. Labor 101 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Form a union like the USPTO employees did Then management has no means to deal with slackers.

  24. The real problem by Xtifr · · Score: 1

    Yeah, blame it all on the examiners--don't pay any attention to the management which requires them to process and pass as many patents as they can in as little time as possible, because that brings in the most money. It's all the fault of those "lazy" employees who basically do what they're told! :p ;)

    If you really want to change things, don't measure performance by how many patents are granted! Because there's no surer way of guaranteeing that bad patents will be passed than that!

  25. Rate patents by percentage of rejected application by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All patent applications must include a full scale working model.

    If it is not a physical object, patent rejected.
    If it is biological, patent rejected.

    Any patent examiner who approves more than 5% of the applications they work on, is assumed to be aiding and abetting patent frsud.
    First offence is a written warning.
    Second offence is one month suspension without pay.
    Third offence is termination, with no benefits, nor eligibility to work for any federal, state, or local government agency, nor any organization that has a contract with any government agency.

    The fee to appeal a denied patent is US$10^10. This fee is not refundable. This fee is not tax-deductable.
    The fee to appeal a patent application that has been denied twice is US$10^12. This fee is neither refundable, nor tax-deductable.

  26. The next Albert Einstein by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amongst those 8,000 patent clerks there are many that probably take their job seriously, you never know, one could be the next Albert Einstein

    "Much of his work at the patent office related to questions about transmission of electric signals and electrical-mechanical synchronization of time, two technical problems that show up conspicuously in the thought experiments that eventually led Einstein to his radical conclusions about the nature of light and the fundamental connection between space and time."