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Tim Cook Says Apple Can't Read Users' Emails, That iCloud Wasn't Hacked

Apple CEO Tim Cook insists that Apple doesn't read -- in fact, says Cook, cannot read -- user's emails, and that the company's iCloud service wasn't hacked. ZDNet presents highlights from Cook's lengthy, two-part interview with Charlie Rose. One selection of particular interest: Apple previously said that even it can't access iMessage and FaceTime communications, stating that such messages and calls are not held in an "identifiable form." [Cook] claimed if the government "laid a subpoena," then Apple "can't provide it." He said, bluntly: "We don't have a key... the door is closed." He reiterated previous comments, whereby Apple has said it is not in the business of collecting people's data. He said: "When we design a new service, we try not to collect data. We're not reading your email." Cook went on to talk about PRISM in more detail, following the lead from every other technology company implicated by those now-infamous PowerPoint slides.

7 of 191 comments (clear)

  1. Is this technically impossible - no. by queazocotal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is it legally possible... Not everywhere certainly.
    http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/in...
    Is he required to lie about this?

    1. Re:Is this technically impossible - no. by unrtst · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Assuming the messages are encrypted on Apples servers at all, they would likely be encrypted with a random key, and a copy of that key would then get encrypted with your password, and another copy encrypted with something support can use (ie. apple owned), so that changing your primary password does not change the underlying key, but just changes the encryption on the copy. There may be multiple layers in there, and public key/private key stuff, etc, but that's one simple description of how, for example, you can send an S/MIME encrypted email to multiple recipients (primary message is encrypted once; its key is encrypted by the public key of each recipient and attached to the email; their private key can decrypt the key and read the message).

      That said, my gut doubts there's much encryption going on. This quote:

      such messages and calls are not held in an "identifiable form."

      ... I've heard similar from many C-line (ceo/cto/etc) calls and RFC's (ex. discussing PCI-DSS or SSN security). It generally means there's just an extra hop between foreign keys. I mean, it's obvious that the messages are identifiable from some perspective (your phone), so the breadcrumbs are there somewhere. Things that get downloaded or are real time (SMS and calls)... maybe they remove the lookup and leave the original data? There's still some ID on them.

    2. Re:Is this technically impossible - no. by Tuidjy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I personally don't believe that the NSA can't crack strong encryption.

      I'm not quite sure what you are saying. It sounds to me as if you think that there is no encryption strong enough that the NSA cannot crack it. This is completely false.

      A simple example is using one time pad encryption. Without the pad, you you cannot even theoretically crack it. Try every possible pad, and you will get every possible message of the proper length - some of them will make perfect sense, so you will not be able to find the right one.

      Taking it a bit further, there are encryptions that would take too long to crack, if they are properly executed, and the NSA does not have a backdoor. And by too long, I mean that there is not enough time before the heat death of the Universe.

      Hell, I am perfectly sure that I could establish communication with some of my friends from college that could not be cracked, even theoretically. I would have to exchange some information with them in a secure manner before hand, of course. But I would never take the risk of doing something like this. It would attract the wrong kind of attention.

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished...
    3. Re:Is this technically impossible - no. by Tuidjy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One time pads are not worthless in practice, at all.

      Whether you are a criminal, or a government agent, at some point you will be in a secure location, and you will be able to exchange the pads. The USB stick in my pocket can hold more data than I expect to exchange with any of my friends in the course my lifetime. How long to you think encrypted messages need to be?

      But even that is less secure than what you could do.

      Hell, if I was writing a novel about smart criminals, and wanted them to be capable of secure communication, this is what I have them do:

      They would meet in the big boss's hacienda, and they would agree to use one of the 50000 books available on project Gutenberg. The page to use as an one time pad would be selected via a function of the day the message is sent. The function would be simple enough to memorize.

      When one of the party wants to send a message, they would take a picture they have a plausible reason to send, and would use a hex editor, on a PC physically disconnected from the Internet, to manually change a subset of low-significance color bits. Again, the subset will be determined by a rule that is easily memorized.

      Yes, the process is laborious, and I would have them do it twice, and then compare the two resulting pictures. If they do not match, they will have to do it again. Once the pictures match, wipe (properly) the originals (from everywhere: camera, usb, secure computer) and send the modified picture, accompanied with an innocuous and appropriate message.

      Obviously, the encrypted messages would need to be short, but this process will not attract any attention, and will rely on memorized rules, publicly available data, and programs that would not draw anyone's attention.

      What is the NSA doing to do? Suspect anyone sending pictures to his friends? Try, as a one time pad, every page on every book available on Gutenberg, or the myriads of pirated book libraries in China, Russia, Ukraine, etc?

      I cannot think of any weakness of this system. Can you? And even if it is completely stupid, I bet you two things: there are plenty of people who can come up with a better one, and plenty of people who are getting away with using a worse one.

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished...
  2. Poor Apple by obarthelemy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It seems they've picked "privacy" as a fighting point vs Google. They don't seem to realize that people either
    1- don't care anyway
    or
    2- care, and know Apple is bullshitting.

    --
    The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
  3. tanslation for the masses: by nimbius · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Tim cook, talking head who has only ever held managerial roles in various fortune 100 companies, expels platitudes about the sanctity of the iGalaxy for users who slept through FISA and NSA backdoors and only recently began giving a shit when selfies and nudes were leaked from the magical cloud by notorious hacker 4chan.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  4. Subject & summary disagree by Aaden42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Article subject says, “email,” but TFS says, “iMessages.” Those are different things, and the security of them is handled very differently because the mechanism of access is very different.

    Apple being unable to access emails is impossible since they must deliver them in plain text to plain-old IMAP clients that don’t support decryption or key storage.

    Apple being unable to access iMessage contents is plausible. My understanding of the protocol is something like this:

    Alice starts texting Bob’s phone number. Alice’s iDevice contacts Apple’s servers to see if Bob’s phone number is registered with iMessage. If not, Alice’s device sends a plain-old SMS. If it is, Alice’s device receives a list of public keys for each of Bob’s registered iDevices. Alice’s iDevice encrypts the message with a session key, then encrypts that session key to each of Bob’s public keys. Her device transmits the encrypted message to Apple’s servers which then transmit it to each of Bob’s devices as they become accessible. Each of Bob’s registered devices can use its private key to decrypt one of the encrypted session key blocks, then use that to decrypt the message.

    The private key to decrypt session keys never leaves Bob’s device. The session key never travels in the clear outside Alice’s or Bob’s devices. Apple can retrieve sender/recipient info (ye olde metadata), but no message contents.

    The one gotcha to all of that is that since Apple controls all SSL certs involved in the process, they could MitM attack the process if they so-choose (or were so-ordered). There’s no certificate pinning or checking implemented, so Alice’s iDevice has no way of knowing if the public keys it retrieved for Bob’s iDevices might also include an extra key held by Apple or LEO.

    Assuming Apple is compelled to intercept messages from Alice starting at a particular date, messages sent before that date at rest on their server should remain secure (unless they’re lying and are currently MitM or escrowing keys). New messages sent while the MitM was active could be decrypted and provided to LEO. Whether or not they’re performing an MitM at present should be detectable by analyzing the traffic during new device registration or sending messages — IE if Alice checks the keys received and confirms them all with Bob manually (jailbreak most likely required). If they don’t match or there’s an extra key, something’s wrong.

    There’s an in-depth protocol analysis of iMessage here: http://blog.quarkslab.com/imes...

    Scroll to the bottom for the tl;dr on that analysis. That post also includes proof of concept software to check for an active MitM attack, at least on iMessage for Mac.

    tl;dr: Apple is in a trusted position where they could intercept message on a per-user basis if compelled to do so, but the general case of iMessage working as intended leaves messages encrypted on their server with keys they don’t have. I’m not aware of any way that Apple could perform that attack in an undetectable fashion, though performing that detection is well beyond the ability of most users.