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Mystery Signal Could Be Dark Matter Hint In ISS Detector

astroengine writes Analysis of 41 billion cosmic rays striking the Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer particle detector aboard the International Space Station shows an unknown phenomena that is "consistent with a dark matter particle" known as a neutralino, researchers announced Thursday. Key to the hunt is the ratio of positrons to electrons and so far the evidence from AMS points in the direction of dark matter. The smoking gun scientists look for is a rise in the ratio of positrons to electrons, followed by a dramatic fall — the telltale sign of dark matter annihilating the Milky Way's halo, which lies beyond its central disk of stars and dust. However, "we have not found the definitive proof of dark matter," AMS lead researcher Samuel Ting, with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and CERN in Switzerland, wrote in an email to Discovery News. "Whereas all the AMS results point in the right direction, we still need to measure how quickly the positron fraction falls off at the highest energies in order to rule out astrophysical sources such as pulsars." But still, this new finding is a tantalizing step in the dark matter direction.

30 of 55 comments (clear)

  1. Huh? by TFlan91 · · Score: 1

    >> the telltale sign of dark matter annihilating the Milky Way's halo

    Sooooo when did dark matter become anti-matter? Or am I missing something?

    1. Re:Huh? by Bengie · · Score: 4, Informative

      In the past year, all of those have been eliminated. Dark Matter has to be something that doesn't not interact with light in any way except via gravity. I'm pretty sure "gas" interacts with light. Black holes is the only thing that fits this restriction, but the gravitational gradient would be too much, and would require 80% of the universes mass to be tied up in black-holes at the edge of galaxies.

    2. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You should have read the sentences right after where your quote stops:

      "But we've been able to eliminate most of these as the primary variety in one way or another. If black holes constituted all of dark matter, for instance, we would expect to see gravitational lensing (the bending of light as it passes massive objects) when we look through the halo of our own galaxy at stars in other galaxies because we would expect there to be many black holes in that halo. We do not see such lensing, so we conclude that the dark matter we know to be present in galaxy is not black holes."

      In other words, a lot of searches for microlensing and occlusion of stars within our galaxy have set an upper bound on the number of such items, and that upper bound is too small to cover a significant part of the missing dark matter. And that is without invoking the cosmological arguments for dark matter to be non-baryonic, and that there is more normal matter out that that we haven't even accounted for.

    3. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      In the past year, all of those have been eliminated.

      Most of those were weakened, if not eliminated over a decade ago, going back almost to some early surveys in the 90s. Not just in the past year. More and more studies keep reducing upper bounds on the number of such objects, but for some time that upper bound has been too low.

      Dark Matter has to be something that doesn't not interact with light in any way except via gravity.

      Dark matter can still interact with light, it just must do so weakly in a way that would match current observations. There are several detectors looking for various dark matter candidates passing through the detectors that would involve electromagnetic interaction, but such processes would be so dim in outer space that you couldn't see them from any distance.

      I'm pretty sure "gas" interacts with light.

      It also is something that has been mapped out a lot, and is baryonic.

      , but the gravitational gradient would be too much, and would require 80% of the universes mass to be tied up in black-holes at the edge of galaxies.

      The gradient is not a problem, nor would they all be right at the edge of the galaxy. A model using a gas of very small black holes spread through out the galaxy and halo would explain rotation curves just fine, as would it explain other things like gravitational lensing if there were clouds of black holes in certain places between galaxies. The problem with black holes is not that they couldn't explain the missing gravity source, but that they would have been observerable in various surveys specifically looking for them and were not.

    4. Re:Huh? by radtea · · Score: 1

      Sooooo when did dark matter become anti-matter? Or am I missing something?

      Probably pretty much everything.

      Matter and anti-matter are--up to a flip in charge and parity--the same thing. That is, if you take an electron (a matter particle), flip its charge and look at in a mirror you'll see a positron (an anti-matter particle).

      So it is actually perfectly consistent, logically if not linguistically, for dark matter to be entirely anti-matter.

      Exotic dark matter can also produce anti-matter when its particles collide with each other, which is what this report seems to be about. The significant thing is that the energy spectrum of the positrons that the AMS detector sees appear to have about the right energy spectrum for one particular type of exotic dark matter (which I personally have a pretty low prior for).

      There are a whole bunch of follow-on papers from other people doing what scientists do, which is check for consistency between the exotic dark matter interpretation of this result and reality, in the sense that if this signal really is due to exotic dark matter there should be a number of different consequences (including the anti-proton signal the article mentions): http://arxiv.org/find/all/1/al...

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    5. Re:Huh? by ls671 · · Score: 1

      I never mentioned large black holes and I was using the quote to demonstrate that we still do not know what is going on really yet.

      Anyway, this seems recent enough ( April 30, 2014):
      "Black hole atoms now join a long list of candidates for dark matter particles, from supersymmetric neutralinos, WIMPs and axions to warm sterile neutrinos and many more, Dokuchaev told Space.com. Verifying whether any of them is the real deal will require catching one first, he added."

      http://www.space.com/25691-dar...

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    6. Re:Huh? by iggymanz · · Score: 4, Informative

      The hypothetical "neutralino" is a family of four particles the lightest of which is considered to be a dark matter candidate. Neutralinos are their own antiparticles (similar to how photons are), and a pair of them can sometimes annihilate to form other matter-antimatter pairs of particles.

    7. Re:Huh? by ls671 · · Score: 1

      Please watch the TV Show Manhattan.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Yet, back then, at some stage, almost the whole scientific community was hyped on ThinMan which ended up being trashed. Implosion prevailed.

      All I am saying is don't jump to conclusions and follow the scientific community hype too easily.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    8. Re:Huh? by ls671 · · Score: 1

      Interesting, the "shadow of the hype" is still hype. You seem to be underestimating me.

      Apart from that, you are basically saying the same thing as I do and rest assured I have been following your recommendations for quite a while, especially the part about: "you could be making decisions for yourself based on the actual arguments and data involved."

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    9. Re:Huh? by ls671 · · Score: 1

      1) I don't have anything to prove.

      2) Learn to read between the lines ;-)

      Cheers,

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    10. Re:Huh? by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      I think they meant "annihilating in." Dark matter should have both anti- and regular variants, which would annihilate with each other, potentially producing an observable signal. Actually, the neutralino they're discussed is probably a Marjorana fermion, which is its own anti-particle.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    11. Re:Huh? by slashmydots · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You forgot the most realistic and easily proven dark matter theory. It's a math error! If the Star Ship Enterprise can't estimate total matter in the entirety of the universe, I don't think a Xeon can. You have to compensate for billion of years of light delay over an even scale while space is expanding the entire time that the light is traveling through it and be flawlessly accurate on the counts of individual atoms. You get one single thing wrong like mass vs perceived light bending around a black hole and you miss half the miss in every black hole in the universe. If there's a 100% black hole universe, you might have missed the whole damn thing. I mean come on! Oh look, lightning...it must be Zeus! Oh look, a floating thing with a light in the sky...must be aliens coming to visit! Can we go back to science and stick to the most likely explanation for once? Dark matter isn't real!

  2. neutralino?! by Lije+Baley · · Score: 1

    Does this mean they'll find the gravioli next?

    --
    Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
  3. So, what energy are we talking about? by Grog6 · · Score: 1

    Are we talking about the fountain of 511keV positron/electron annihilation photons from the galactic poles, or are we talking some exotic gammas from an Neutralino annihilation?

    Inquiring minds want to know... :)

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
    1. Re:So, what energy are we talking about? by skirmish666 · · Score: 1

      The smoking gun scientists look for is a rise in the ratio of positrons to electrons, followed by a dramatic fall

      Enquiring minds should read the summary ;)

      --
      Sigger than your average
    2. Re:So, what energy are we talking about? by Grog6 · · Score: 1

      That was what was unclear; thanks.
      idrtfa. :)

      --
      Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
  4. Wow, I thought you were dead. by Grog6 · · Score: 1

    Great job on the whole moving out of the domes thing; how's R. Daneel?

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
    1. Re: Wow, I thought you were dead. by Lije+Baley · · Score: 1

      Daneel went back to Earth after I shacked up with Gladia. I suspect he's been trying out some new laws on my wife.

      --
      Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
    2. Re: Wow, I thought you were dead. by Grog6 · · Score: 1

      Cool beans; tell him I said hey; and he was right about those chicks. :)

      --
      Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
    3. Re: Wow, I thought you were dead. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I suspect he's been trying out some new laws on my wife.

      In your place, I'd become suspicious somewhere around the 69th law.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  5. Annihilating the Milky Way's halo? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    the telltale sign of dark matter annihilating the Milky Way's halo

    Is that supposed to be "annihilating in the Milky Way's halo"?

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  6. Re:ISIS is in space? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    Her mother Nut is the sky god, you're saying she can't visit?

  7. Re:Generally accepted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Giving a name to "everything" we can't see and then finding evidence that there's something more is a bit curious.

    Except it isn't a name for everything or even some general, broad category of unknowns. It started as a potential solution of a specific unknown, and expanded to cover a small number of other situations that were found to be explainable by a single, common theory.

    What hasn't been "seen" yet is "dark".

    There is a lot of unseen stuff that doesn't get the dark label. The same models that predict that dark matter is non-baryonic also show that that we only see about a quarter of normal matter our there. In that case, the normal matter we don't see is not a part of dark matter, but just unseen stuff.

  8. Poor summary by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    The summary makes little sense, but I suspect this is because nothing was really found. Awake me when you will have some real news.

  9. Re:Generally accepted by MildlyTangy · · Score: 5, Informative

    Dark matter simply means matter that is too small to be detected by what humans have so far developed to see, but which gravity study suggests should be there. Seventy years ago, Pluto was probably "dark matter". Giving a name to "everything" we can't see and then finding evidence that there's something more is a bit curious. What hasn't been "seen" yet is "dark". We will eat away at "dark" matter one snapshot at a time.

    No, thats not correct. Dark matter is not matter that is "too small" to detect currently. Its matter that does not interact with electromagnetic radiation ( light, radio waves, gamma waves etc ) in any way, shape or form. We know its there from its gravitational interactions, that is correct. But it is not affected and does not affect electromagnetic radiation, or electric or magnetic fields. Its size is not the issue that makes it so difficult to detect.

  10. Re:Generally accepted by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

    That's why it's "dark," (pedantic AC corrections notwithstanding), but I would say its size is something that makes most dark matter candidates hard to detect. These particles are mostly predicted to be too massive for production at current accelerators.

    --
    .: Semper Absurda :.
  11. Dark matter or supersymmetry verification by jphamlore · · Score: 1

    Which would be the biggest news for physics: A discovered candidate for dark mattery or discovery of a particle predicted by supersymmetry? I thought evidence from the LHC was casting doubt on many supersymmetry theories? Also Samuel Ting is fairly old which is a shame because it might be unlikely he could live long enough to be one of those rare scientists who are awarded multiple Nobel Prizes.

  12. My speculation by jandersen · · Score: 1

    The fact is that we have too little evidence to guide us, and we can all speculate to some extent. My favourite, based on nothing more than my own wishful thinking, really, is that dark matter consists of not just 1 kind of particle, but of a whole 'phylum' (to borrow a word from biology) of particles that interact with themselves much like the particles we know; there may be several phylums (or phyla, if you prefer). The reason I like the idea is simply that it allows me to fantasize about a kind of parallel universe that we can't see - even life; a sort of ghost universe. Wouldn't that be cool :-) ?

  13. Re:Generally accepted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No, as other AC said, this is flat out wrong. Candidates like axions can interact with magnetic field and directly decay into photons, which is an EM interaction. Majorana fermions can still possess a toroidal moment which is extremely limiting to interacting with electromagnetism, but still allows it to interact. If particles were allowed to have a charge that is a small faction of the electron's charge, you could have very weak but difficult to observe electromagnetic interactions. Other particles could still interact through electromagnetism through loops in their Feynman diagram, which is rare but can happen, just like photon-photon scattering.

  14. Ask and ye shall receive: by Hartree · · Score: 1

    This not only discusses it, but has a link to the actual Phys Rev Letters paper. Jester (the blogger) thinks it may be a more mundane explanation, but still an interesting one.

    http://resonaances.blogspot.co...