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How Our Botched Understanding of "Science" Ruins Everything

An anonymous reader writes "Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry writes at The Week, "If you ask most people what science is, they will give you an answer that looks a lot like Aristotelian 'science' — i.e., the exact opposite of what modern science actually is. Capital-S Science is the pursuit of capital-T Truth. And science is something that cannot possibly be understood by mere mortals. It delivers wonders. It has high priests. It has an ideology that must be obeyed. This leads us astray. ... Countless academic disciplines have been wrecked by professors' urges to look 'more scientific' by, like a cargo cult, adopting the externals of Baconian science (math, impenetrable jargon, peer-reviewed journals) without the substance and hoping it will produce better knowledge. ... This is how you get people asserting that 'science' commands this or that public policy decision, even though with very few exceptions, almost none of the policy options we as a polity have have been tested through experiment (or can be). People think that a study that uses statistical wizardry to show correlations between two things is 'scientific' because it uses high school math and was done by someone in a university building, except that, correctly speaking, it is not. ... This is how you get the phenomenon ... thinking science has made God irrelevant, even though, by definition, religion concerns the ultimate causes of things and, again, by definition, science cannot tell you about them. ... It also means that for all our bleating about 'science' we live in an astonishingly unscientific and anti-scientific society. We have plenty of anti-science people, but most of our 'pro-science' people are really pro-magic (and therefore anti-science). "

30 of 795 comments (clear)

  1. In lost the will to live ... by amalcolm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... half way through the summary

    --
    Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
    1. Re:In lost the will to live ... by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then again, kirk was fairly unambiguously Christian in at least a few episodes. In a way supported sorta arbitrarily to be totally true by the plot of at least one of those episodes(the "sun worshippers" one).

    2. Re:In lost the will to live ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People don't understand what religion is either. Some people believe that they understand what their own religion is, but they are wrong.

    3. Re:In lost the will to live ... by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We've veered way off topic by now, but since non-religious ethical systems is one of my favorite things to talk about, I'm still going to reply.

      Non-violence can be derived from any ethical position that views others as equal to yourself in all ways. There's a certain naivety to it, but that doesn't make it Christian in origin or purpose, and I think asserting that it does sells Christians short.

    4. Re:In lost the will to live ... by JMJimmy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Religion and science can co-exist if people stopped attributing religious or anti-religious views to science. Science makes no claims about religion and they are not mutually exclusive. When atheists are asked "well, if you don't believe in religion what do you believe in" - they'll often erroneously say "science". Science is not a belief system though it may cause claims of religion to be called into question example: Jesus walking on water. To our current understanding of science this is not possible unaided. Maybe it was a hoax, maybe it was a divine being, maybe it wasn't a literal claim - science doesn't know, that's for people to examine or accept on faith (as part of a religion or otherwise).

      Science needs to be separated from anti-religious ideology.

    5. Re:In lost the will to live ... by meustrus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Alright, screw mod points this time. This is a discussion that needs more voices.

      This is an article about the definition of science. The fundamental point is incredibly sound, and explains a lot about anti-scientific culture by explaining something about pro-scientific culture: even the people who are pro-science don't really know what science is. Science is not the pursuit of truth. Science is, as he says repeatedly, "the process through which we derive reliable predictive rules through controlled experimentation". Nothing more, nothing less.

      Statistics is a dangerous thing that can prove anything. For example, running accepted statistics on the human population of Earth and population expansion rates (or the height of Twitter timelines) leads to the result that the human species will likely go extinct in about 800 years. And most people will never understand how that result happened, whether it seems to make sense or not. Do you know what magic is? It's not fireballs and heal spells. Magic at its most basic is trying to affect the outcome of the future with some action you don't really understand. If I were to turn my cap before pitching a baseball, believing that doing otherwise may jinx the pitch, that would be magic. It is also perfectly meaningful for me to say that because I do not understand exactly what an LED is, or how it is made, from my perspective it is made of and from magic.

      As to whether "religious affairs are obviously beyond the realms of science, and are no obstacle in the quest for truth and understanding": real science, by definition, is outside the realm of religion. But the so-called "science" being criticized in the article is not. Science and religion are separate because science does not deal with Truth, and therefore no religious Truths are at risk. Even if we were to talk about something contentious like evolution, "science" does not tell us that evolution is True. Science tells us that we can ask the question, "Assuming that evolution is true, this other idea should also be true; let us find out". Asking that question has led scientists to predict practical applications (though not nearly as many as the laws of Physics and Chemistry).

      The worst thing I am reading in these comments is basically "I don't understand the summary". If this is you, you are part of the problem. You think you know what science is, and this article is confusing because you're wrong and can't even recognize what you're wrong about. If you don't understand, you need to stop talking about science until you do. You are damaging the cause for science by treating it like a belief system, so just stop. The more that people like you claim that God is made obsolete by science, the more that everyone else thinks that science is just like another religion.

      --
      I sometimes ask revealing, often ignorant-seeming questions. Maybe they're harder to answer than you think.
    6. Re:In lost the will to live ... by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Atheism has been [around] far longer than any sort of theism has, the idea of God is one that had to be invented by people.

      Alternatively, it could be that some form of theism is inherent in the way humans have evolved.

      The only true atheist I have met was a total sociopath of a man, completely oriented to narcisism.

      I have also met a lot of people who describe themselves as atheists, but in each of these cases it seems that their definition of atheism involves negating the idea of Deity (where "Deity" is an inclusive term for belief in God, Gaia, Goddess, multiple gods, pantheistic spirits, etc). So Deity was, through its negation, very much a part of their world view. In each of these cases there seemed to be some sense of rightness that pretty much functioned as Deity no matter what the person chose to call it. That is, their "atheism" seemed to be of the "I am not a believer in God (but I have pantheistic belief, or believe I am myself sacred, etc).

      That one true atheist, the sociopath, never stated a belief or disbelief. That was unimportant to him. The only thing that was important to him was enjoying himself as much as he possibly could without paying for his pleasure if he could possibly arrange for someone else to foot the bill. He was a thief of convenience, a great imposter, and a con artist. But he was rarely a burglar and never an armed robber-- I think those would have required too much work.

      --
      Will
    7. Re:In lost the will to live ... by Gavrielkay · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "True atheist?"

      I know quite a few atheists and am one myself. Most of us don't go around talking about it and are somewhat surprised to run into another one. If you're going to define a "sense of rightness" as "Deity" then I suppose that's your business, but it is not what I think anyone's common definition would be. I have a sense of rightness that derives from empathy. It doesn't take any notion of the supernatural or any deity to understand that if I can feel pain, then I can expect that my fellow humans can as well. If I feel that someone causing me pain is "bad" then it follows that causing others' pain is bad.

      Surely you've heard of the Golden Rule? This requires zero belief in the supernatural or any sort of sacredness. It is my experience as an atheist that many theists are so attached to their world view that they simply can't help but ascribe it to others, even if they have to mangle the definitions of common words to do so.

    8. Re:In lost the will to live ... by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Approach #1 obviously makes a lot of sense in small, tribal societies. If you don't work for the good of the group, they'll kick you out and survival on your own in pre-civilization days is very difficult if not impossible. However, #2 is quite doable these days. All you have to do is work a job for money, and use that money to pay for your living expenses. Then, for personal relationships, you can treat people poorly and take advantage of them for your own personal gain. There's countless sociopaths who do just that every day, and it seems to work well for them. They're even running all our large companies and our government.

    9. Re:In lost the will to live ... by Alsee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or at least that's the only explanation I can see for a non-violent atheism.

      Translation: You don't understand atheism, therefore your personal religion gets to claim all credit for any and all positive common-sense-truths.

      Christianity incorporated things that were widely accepted as true or good long before Christianity existed, and which are widely accepted as true or good in societies that have never had contact with Christianity.... and you want to claim Christianity somehow "owns" them, and that atheists cannot interdependently agree with them.

      I do not need to believe in Native American animal spirit guides to come to the conclusion that it's a good idea to avoid violence.
      I do not need to believe in Reincarnation to come to the conclusion that it's a good idea to avoid violence.
      And I sure as heck don't need to believe in your even sillier walking-talking snake stories to come to the conclusion that it's a good idea to avoid violence.

      There are pure-logic reasons to come to that conclusion.
      There are good reasons to come to that conclusion which may range beyond a strict definition of "pure logic", which have absolutely nothing to do with invisible mystical magical beings.

      One of the great things about atheism is that we see absolutely nothing wrong with adopting anything in Christianity that is true or good. Just as we see absolutely nothing wrong with adopting anything in Judiasm that is true or good. Just as we see absolutely nothing wrong with adopting anything in Islam that is true or good. Just as we see absolutely nothing wrong with adopting anything in Native American religion that is true or good. Just as we see absolutely nothing wrong with adopting anything in Buddhism that is true or good. Just as we see absolutely nothing wrong with adopting anything in Hinduism that is true or good. Just as we see absolutely nothing wrong with adopting anything in Confucianism that is true or good.

      Atheists don't define "morality" as obedience to some random religion's claims about what some invisible-silent-magical-man wants. We are free to accept the best examples of morality and the best teachings on morality and the best reasoning on morality, from anywhere. Jesus said a lot of very wise things. Buddha said a lot of very wise things. Confucius said a lot of very wise things. I see no shame as an atheist, taking the best that Christianity has to offer. But there's no way in hell you can claim Christianity has some monopoly-ownership on the idea of non-violence.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    10. Re:In lost the will to live ... by Zalbik · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why is causing pain to others bad? Why do you care about what other people feel? Yes, most of us agree that it's wrong to willfully hurt others, but why? If you think that we're just collections of cells, then the only thing you should care about is your own personal survival and comfort, and nothing else.

      For three fairly obvious reasons:
      1) If I cause pain to others, or believe that this is justifiable, then others quite likely will treat me the same

      2) If everyone lived according to the ideals of "care about is your own personal survival and comfort, and nothing else.", society would collapse.

      3) It causes me pain to cause pain to others or to see others suffer. That's part of what empathy is.

      Notice that none of these justifications require any sort of supernatural cause. The idea that a supernatural entity must involved in order for people to behave with common decency scares me.

  2. Summary is Troll Rant by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Lets leave the crazy rants to the comment section.

    1. Re:Summary is Troll Rant by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They said, "here's an article about how science works, let me interject my unrelated opinions about how mainstream science is totally oppressing my opinions."

      It's a markedly common sentiment, and only varies on what particular crazy beliefs are being rejected by those institutions. And no, I'm not just mocking global warming denialism, or creationism. You also see the same argument from alt-med, time-cube-lite theories, or "racial realists".

    2. Re:Summary is Troll Rant by penguinoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Science is the pursuit of the subset of truth that makes predictions about the real world. Yet this simple definition seems to be lost on so many people. The worst offenders are the ones who think science is the pursuit of Truth in general, or about being right, or about explanations.

      As an example, consider "Creation Science", whose objective is to explain, not predict, information about biology. And because such explanation is, in the eyes of the public, a decently good explanation, people accept it. And hardly anyone calls them out for failing to make predictions, and thus not even being science. It's like if you have two weathermen, one predicts every day whether it will rain or not, and the other collects a list of every time the first weatherman made a mistake. The second one may be right all the time, but he's still useless. Thus "creation scientists" do not focus on the mathematics of sediments and sorting of dead things, or the impact a population bottleneck will have on current genetics, or their own mathematical predictions concerning radiometric dating, but rather on explanations for these, all of which shows that they themselves don't even believe what they're pretending to support.

      As for science and religion, consider this: many Christians will tell you that the core of Christianity is faith in God. And then they'll turn around and try to "prove" God's existence, demonstrating that they believe testing God is superior to having faith in God. But if the world with God and the world without God are indistinguishable from each other, only then can you say believing in God is an act of faith. Else you could scientifically test for God's existence, and then where would faith be?

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  3. We like to feel smart by halivar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We fell most smart when we are seen "liking" smart things. Hence the idiotic, pseudo-intellectual "I Fucking Love Science" Facebook posts that flood my feed with juvenile memes and puns. Liking smart people like Niel deGrass Tyson does not make you smart. Taking sides on a scientific controversy you do not fully understand does not make you smart (even if you happen to chose the factually correct side). These things are simply part of the cargo cult science has become.

    1. Re:We like to feel smart by Torodung · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Watch his worshipful reboot of Cosmos, and you'll see plenty of it. Hero worship does not belong in a science class, even though that was the purpose of establishing Newton (and others) as an authority for the modern science movement (authority was a requirement for any field of study to be taken seriously in universities at the time.) This is where the concept of "scientific laws" comes from. The antiquated need for authority to please 19th century universities.

      And why people who don't understand science, and that the whole "law" thing is mostly an anachronism, spout that, say evolution, is "just a theory." It's all a theory, and some of them are very well developed! There are no laws in science. None. It's baggage from the birth pains of the 19th century.

      Science is ultimately anti-authoritarian, anti-heroic, or it doesn't work. Turning a "scientific genius" into a superman is right out. Science has no heroes, and hero worship has no place in science. Respect for the elegance of a theoretical framework is the closest we should come.

  4. Re:AGW by SeeManRun · · Score: 1, Insightful

    True, bot correlation does not not equal causation either. It is very likely CO2 concentrations are causing global warming. We don't have another planet to test on, but we know CO2 is a green house gas through experimentation. It is not now required to do so on a planetary scale, we've already proved they trap gasses. The authors interpretation of science might require you to test this on a planetary scale, but that is ridiculous.

  5. Re:So educational! by sixoh1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Excellent trolling, refute the summary of an article about poor understanding of the meaning of science with a Popperian negative-proof masquerading as a strawman. Either you are a grand-master of hyperbole, or you don't bother to read to comprehension before declaring something invalid. Irony, since that's pretty much exactly the OP - many humans really love to declare themselves aligned with SCIENCE! Yet few are actually consistently able to operate scientifically.

  6. Re:Pretty Much Sums it Up by benjfowler · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not every opinion is of equal worth. Not every opinion is informed. Not every opinion is distinguishable from a feeling or hunch.

    Democracy pertains to politics, where there is no objective reality -- only competing sets of values and subjective opinion.

    In more objective areas of life, you live and die based on whether or not your ideas are objectively defensible. Science is a way of knowing: and the worth of an idea is usually based on its ability to explain or predict. That's the key ingredient that most people don't understand.

  7. Re:Philosophy of Science by srobert · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's exactly why I suggest that teaching about creationism IS appropriate for a science class. If I were a biology teacher (and my approach were permissible), when the subject of creationism inevitably came up in the class, rather than dismiss it with the arrogant assertion that "this is a science class, we'll not discuss your religion here", I would, instead, follow up with a discussion of Popper's criteria. Then I might request a short essay discussing how well evolutionary theory or creationism met the criteria for a scientific hypothesis.
    That, in my opinion, is part of teaching science.

  8. Re:AGW by wytcld · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yep, coorelation != causation.

    Correlation is necessary but not sufficient to scientific proof of causation. To prove causation you need to have a theoretical model allowing you to construct experiements which, with variables controlled for, produce fresh demonstrations of the posited effect. There have been laboratory experiments demonstrating the "greenhouse" effect of CO2 levels since the late 1800s.

    Correlation + theory + well-designed experiments + confirming results = causation

    Science often starts with observed correlations. But not always. Sometime the theory comes first. It's only on putting all the parts together that science can speak with confidence about causation. If we use the "corelation != causation" slogan as if it refutes all science which follows from observation of correlations, we entirely miss the point.

    --
    "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
  9. Wrong by a+whoabot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The piece is mumbo-jumbo. Yes, Bacon eschewed the "Aristotelian" search for final causes. Does that mean that Baconian science doesn't try to determine the truth? Of course not.

    The history of philosophy/history of science done in this piece is clap trap. He says that Galileo used experiment, whereas Aristotle did not. And that's why Aristotle thought that "heavier objects should fall faster than light ones". Supposedly. The problem: Aristotle didn't use "abstract reasoning" to come to that incorrect conclusion. He just didn't control his variables adequately. Not controlling variables adequately can happen to the very best of experimentalists.

    "Science is not the pursuit of capital-T Truth. [...] Scientific knowledge is not "true" knowledge, since it is knowledge about only specific empirical propositions"

    So how does this argument run? Scientific knowledge is knowledge about specific empirical propositions. Therefore, scientific knowledge is not "true" knowledge. Therefore, science is not the pursuit of capital-T Truth? That's a terrible argument. This seems like just a case of begging the question from the author where he has an unargued "definition" of what "Truth" is. Why anyone else is beholden to this definition, of course, is a mystery.

    "Bacon, who had a career in politics and was an experienced manager, actually wrote that scientists would have to be misled into thinking science is a pursuit of the truth, so that they will be dedicated to their work, even though it is not."

    I highly doubt Bacon ever said this. Of course, there is no citation to check. I think the author has confused Bacon's model of Bensalem, where he has the houses of specialists hide their operation from others, so that the others don't come to conclusions based on partial understandings, before the work of the specialists is completed.

    "by definition, religion concerns the ultimate causes of things and, again, by definition, science cannot tell you about them"

    Who made these "definitions"? No one in sight.

    "This is how you get the phenomenon of philistines like Richard Dawkins"

    Oh I see, Dawkins, a great evolutionary biologist, is a philistine. The evidence? I guess because the author disagrees with Dawkins about God. No argument is given.

  10. Re:Excuse me?...excuse me?... by cold+fjord · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It can be the perfect setting for morality plays.

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  11. The whole article is just trolling by ranton · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The article is just as bad or perhaps worse than the summary. Most of the summary is just taking snippets out of the article, and some of the more egregious ones that I bothered to check aren't taking anything out of context. And there is plenty of worse content that the summary has left out.

    thinking science has made God irrelevant, even though, by definition, religion concerns the ultimate causes of things and, again, by definition, science cannot tell you about them

    This particular line of reasoning is the first one I checked on hoping it was just embellishment by the submitter. But it was there. The article loses absolutely all credibility in this one sentence. Science is more than capable of contemplating the cause of anything. It may not be good at anthropomorphizing natural phenomena and giving it intent (like wondering why the universe was created), but that is simply because scientific reasoning easily dismisses such thought as not only irrelevant but ultimately incorrect.

    --
    -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    1. Re:The whole article is just trolling by ComputerInsultant · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But science does not dismiss questions about why the universe was created, it merely discovers the limits of what we know. The big bang is how the universe was created. The inflation of the universe is the event that we cannot measure beyond with the tools we currently have. "Why?" is still a valid question; and science says we lack the tools to gather evidence of "why?".

      --
      engineers are all basically high-functioning autistics who have no idea how normal people do stuff
    2. Re:The whole article is just trolling by flyingsquid · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The article is kind of dumb. It's some guy who isn't a scientist and who doesn't really understand the scientific method arrogantly bitching about how everybody else doesn't really understand the scientific method. He argues that science is "the process through which we derive reliable predictive rules through controlled experimentation", but that's a really narrow, limited way of viewing science, because historical processes aren't open to controlled experiments. Evolution, the history of the planet, the origins of the universe... you can't really run experiments to determine what happened, so by this rather narrow definition, paleontology, geology, and cosmology aren't really science at all. So do we reject the findings of Darwin, reject plate tectonics, reject hypotheses on the origins of the universe as unscientific?

      I mean, it's not like you can run an experiment to determine if the dinosaurs were wiped out by an asteroid... I mean, what would that involve? Creating planets and populating them with dinosaurs, Jurassic-Park style, and then bombarding them with asteroids? Even if it were possible, it wouldn't really prove anything except whether the mechanism is feasible, it wouldn't determine whether that was actually what happened or not. So you can't really use an experiment.

      What you CAN do is make predictions based on that hypothesis, and then make observations to see if the predictions are borne out. For one, you should see evidence of asteroid impact, things like iridium, shock-deformed quartz, microtektites, an impact crater, maybe even a tiny fragment of the asteroid itself... and in fact, after 30 years of looking, every single one of those things showed up, so we're pretty confident there was a giant asteroid impact. For another, you predict that the extinctions coincide with that impact if the impact caused them. And when you look at really abundant microfossils, stuff like fossil plankton and pollen, you can trace the Cretaceous stuff right up to the iridium layer that is the debris field, and then these species vanish forever. So the observations of geology, geochemistry, and paleontology are all consistent with predictions. The same process is used to test other hypotheses about historical processes, such as continental drift, or natural selection, or the formation of the solar system.

      That's the *actual* scientific method. It's testing hypotheses against observation. Controlled experiment may or may not come into it at all.

    3. Re:The whole article is just trolling by c6gunner · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Why?" is still a valid question;

      No, it's not. The question "why" in this case presuposes some kind of purpose, without any reason to believe that such a purpose exists. Just because you can phrase something in the form of a question doesn't mean that your "question" makes any sense.

  12. Re:The article isn't any better. by swillden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From TFA:

    So let me explain what science actually is. Science is the process through which we derive reliable predictive rules through controlled experimentation. That's the science that gives us airplanes and flu vaccines and the Internet.

    No - engineering "gives us airplanes and flu vaccines and the Internet". Science gives us the theoretical (in the scientific sense) frameworks and tools that engineering can apply to do that. The author shows at least as much confusion as those he decries, and he does it from the start.

    Yes. That quote describes the philosophy known as "empiricism", which asserts that the epistemological purpose and process of science is to derive methods for prediction, as opposed to creating explanations. The modern, Popperian and post-Popperian, understanding of science is that it is based on the philosophy of falsifiability, and is a process of conjecture and criticism, with the goal of creating expanations for how the world works. The explanations do enable prediction, but they're deeper than that, because rules of thumb that provide accurate predictions can exist without explanations of the underlying phenomena, and such rules of thumb are strictly less valuable and less useful than explanations. The most essential difference, though there are many, is that explanations explain their own "reach", making clear the set of phenomena to which they apply, while rules of thumb don't, regardless of their accuracy.

    Also, some of the criticism takes the form of experiment, but not all, and in fact not even most. Most conjectured explanations are discarded after only a little analysis, because that's all it takes to show them to be inconsistent with what's already known, or to show them to be bad or shallow explanations for other reasons. Controlled experimentation, per se, isn't even necessary. This is a good thing because in some areas of science, for example, astrophysics, we don't have the ability to experiment on the objects of study. Yet we can still theorize, criticize, examine evidence and move gradually towards ever more accurate and deeper explanations.

    The explanations provided by science are, as you say, what make engineering possible, but science is the process of creating ever-better explanations of the universe, not merely of producing reliable predictive rules.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  13. The article says science = experimental science by presidenteloco · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whereas science needs both hypothesis generation and experimental validation/repudiation of hypotheses.

    Hypothesis generation sometimes has to go out there, and invent new concepts that have so far only been thought about, not yet tested.

    So to summarize, science needs both creative conceptualization (ontology formation) and experimentation (validation or repudiation of the ontology and/or hypothesis).
    These need to go on in circular reinforcement. (Spiral development model).

    Experimentation without re-conceptualization will eventually run dry, because it will get stuck in a local-maximum paradigm, and people won't know what new things/aspects to test any more.

    Remember, relativity was discovered in a thought experiment by Einstein. Is a thought experiment a real experiment in the article author's view? I doubt it.
    Einstein, from the outside, was doing "magic". Speculating about the larger truth.
    Relativity was an example of theory creating a completely new set of concepts that were way ahead of the ability to carry out experiments that could validate or repudiate them. It was a well-formed theory, in that it clearly suggested new kinds of experiments that could test it, but it was pure non-experimental theorizing nonetheless.

    Darwin also, most likely, happened on his key theoretical insight about natural selection (the simple core of it), by thinking about the generalization of many observations, and having a theoretical insight.

    Experimentation has its essential place in science, no doubt (keeps the theorists honest and humble), but it is only half of the game. The other half is innovative philosophy, carefully practiced, in the mind.

    Exper

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  14. Re:GP is an attempt to censor and bias by geekoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    to believe that there is a "Philosophical question regarding the origin of the Universe." Is, in itself, a religion.

    The question will matter the moment you can tell us why there is a reason for the origin of the universe we currently live in.
    "There is no proof, but it's a rational conclusion to believe that something did cause the Universe to exist. "
    I philosopher probably would say that, but that would be an another example of why they are useless hanger ons to the historical coat tails of science.

    Yes, there is proof. We are walking around in it. And yes, atheists do understand the something caused it. But there is a lot of evidence showing it was a natural something, and zero evidence it was a bi-product of intent.

    "The question regarding the origin of the Universe is just one question where bias takes charge and science is put in the background."
    False. there is a lot of sciecne regarding the origin of the universe. What we have is a bunch os people who get their panties in a bunch when it's pointed out there is zero evidence to support theire belief.
    Lets see:
    "Vaccines"
    The science is well know. The vast majority of public debate isn't about anything debatable. It's one side making things up and the other using science. i.e. expermint, data, ect.

    "GMO foods"
    ON one side we ahve science, and verification from every major scientific health group in the world, that it is safe. On the other side you got FUD.

    " Global Warming"
    ON side has science, prediction, proof, the other side has people screaming nonsense.
    Science and bias isn't why we can't have a rational debate.
    How would you have a rational debate with someone who claims 2+2 = 5. No natter how many time you showed them it equals 4, they refuse to change? What do you do when the blame the status quo for not accepting his theory?

    "Anyone that dares to challenge the status quo is attacked and ostracized."
    False. challenge the status quo without good data is "attacked and ostracized." If you statement was true, science and out body of scientific knowledge wouldn't change, but it does change. Every day.

    I am replying because it is wrong. Being wrong is not 'challenging the status quo' it's simple just wrong.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect