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Astrophysicists Identify the Habitable Regions of the Entire Universe

KentuckyFC writes It's not just star systems and galaxies that have habitable zones--regions where conditions are suitable for life to evolve. Astrophysicists have now identified the entire universe's habitable zones. Their approach starts by considering the radiation produced by gamma ray bursts in events such as the death of stars and the collisions between black holes and so on. Astrobiologists have long known that these events are capable of causing mass extinctions by stripping a planet of its ozone layer and exposing the surface to lethal levels of radiation. The likelihood of being hit depends on the density of stars, which is why the center of galaxies are thought to be inhospitable to life. The new work focuses on the threat galaxies pose to each other, which turns out to be considerable when they are densely packed together. Astronomers know that the distribution of galaxies is a kind of web-like structure with dense knots of them connected by filaments interspersed with voids where galaxies are rare. The team says that life-friendly galaxies are most likely to exist in the low density regions of the universe in the voids and filaments of the cosmic web. The Milky Way is in one of these low density regions with Andromeda too far away to pose any threat. But conditions might not be so life friendly in our nearest knot of galaxies called the Virgo supercluster."

80 comments

  1. A few hundred extrasolar planets by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And suddenly you can start extrapolating on the whole damn universe. I like how science works like that. You start having an understanding of something, and you can use that in conjunction with the theory that best predicted it to suddenly have a pretty good guess about everything else.

    It's the nice reality of science compared to the complaining about it a couple threads down.

    Sure the theory's wrong, but we don't know how yet, and our guesses are just so much better than they were a decade ago.

    1. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As opposed to, what, assuming that our galaxy is unique and special and doesn't follow the same rules as the other ones?

      You think the physics of planet formation in our galaxy was somehow magic or something?

      Use your big-boy words, because you sound like a gibbering monkey. I can't even tell WTF you're on about.

    2. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I really don't like how they do this extrapolation stuff. Like the universe is currently expanding, and based on the current rate of expansion (or the rate of change of that expansion) we assume it has always been expanding and that 14 billion years ago everything was crammed into something the size of a golf ball. I'm not anti-science, but that seems to be making a pretty big leap.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    3. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Since the universe, in every direction we look, behaves by the same physical laws, it isn't an unreasonable extrapolation at all. I'm not actually sure what you're complaining about.

      Oh, I get it, you probably don't like science. All those really smart men and women, so much more accomplished than some blowhard on /.

      Well, your lack of credibility and accomplishment is not science's problem.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      I see, so you're dislike of a theory somehow should be fed into whether that theory is legitimate or not.

      Every piece of evidence gathered over the last century shows the universe is expanding, and that it was once much hotter and denser. The evidence for Big Bang cosmology and inflation are overwhelming, whether that pleases you or not.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    5. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Informative

      No one "assumed" that. There's a fuck-ton of evidence for the big bang and universal expansion. And the current model is a reaction to that information.

      Off the top of my head:
      1. Cosmic microwave background radiation matching what the models suggested there would be had the universe expanded from a singularity
      2. Redshift of distant objects being proportional to their distance
      3. Overall concentration of elements heavier than those produced in a super-nova matching expected levels for the super-high energy environment immediately following the big bang
      4. The apparent distances of the furthest objects in the "visible universe" corresponding to about 14 billion light years in distance

      Now before all these observations, the de facto assumption was a Newtonian model, where gravity and momentum kept things in a constant near perfect eternal balance, with the universe having an unknown age. When hubble came up with the Big Bang, he was attempting to address the discrepancies that model had with reality.

    6. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3

      Not as opposed to anything. I'm saying this is how science is supposed to work. We take new observations and use them to classify the properties of things according to the hypotheses that best predict the new information.

    7. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      You're the second person to think I was complaining. What gives? Did you take the "I like how science works like that" as sarcasm?

    8. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think most cosmologists would be happy to revise their theories. But the thing about researching the past is that you *have* to do extrapolation, since you weren't there to observe. The idea is that you take the simplest explanation you can think of, and then look for things that disprove it.

      If the universe started out very small, and expanded to the point where we are today, you would expect to see near uniformity in the cosmic background radiation. So far this is what we've seen, so there's no reason to come up with a more 'creative' solution than they have now with the big bang. I don't entirely understand your dislike for this sort of extrapolation because it's the best thing we have, and is open to change if something better is identified. On the other hand, I'm totally on board with your attitude if it's pointed at String/M/Random-letter theory with it's utter lack of anything to test.

      Of course, I'm also not a scientist so maybe I should leave the commentary to others. :)

    9. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by BlackPignouf · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I take those studies with a huge grain of salt.
      Not too long ago, there was a scientific consensus on conditions required for life. Deep seas (e.g. hydrothermal vents) were far far away from the accepted habitable regions on earth.

    10. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He couldn't have been more clear. What the fuck is wrong with you?

    11. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      This is another thing that bothers me. If we can see stars as far away as the universe is old, then we (or the matter we are composed of) must be moving away from them at very close to the speed of light, since we were once very close to them. I've heard explanations that we are not really moving as fast, or faster than the speed of light but that it's space that is expanding?

      What is the difference between space expanding such that the distance between them increases by 14 billion light years in 14 billion years and 2 objects actually moving apart at the speed of light. The definition of speed is (x1 - x0)/(delta t). If the two objects are now 14 billion light years apart, and we it took 14 billion years for them to get that way, then they must be travelling at the speed of light.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    12. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      To be fair, your comment did have a pretty strong sarcastic tone to it. Maybe it wasn't intentional, but it was there.

    13. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The definition of speed is (x1 - x0)/(delta t).

      That's not even true in Newtonian physics, let alone the kind you need to do cosmology.

    14. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      I think I see it now. Grandiosity as interchangeable with sarcastic hyperbole. Interesting.

    15. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by VanessaE · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well for starters, the observable universe is something closer to 90 billion light years across, not 14 (or 28). The universe's *age* is about 13.7 billion years or thereabouts. You can thank the inflationary period after the Big Bang for that difference. It's the space itself that's expanding and *pushing* or *carrying* the matter with it.

      Space can expand/move far faster than the speed of light - that universal speed limit simply doesn't apply to the fabric of spacetime itself. Same idea that makes warp drive so appealing.

    16. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, no. Someone inferring sarcasm or a sarcastic tone does not mean it was actually present.

    17. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by PvtVoid · · Score: 2

      This is another thing that bothers me. If we can see stars as far away as the universe is old, then we (or the matter we are composed of) must be moving away from them at very close to the speed of light, since we were once very close to them.

      Things as (almost) far away as the universe is old are moving away from us at (close to) the speed of light. Things farther away from us than the universe is old are moving away from us faster than the speed of light. This is perfectly consistent with General Relativity: it seem to contradict Special relativity, but it actually doesn't.

    18. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah... I think these guys are just too cynical to see someone appreciate the vastness of the cosmos and the power of science without assuming that person is being a sarcastic asshole. It's kind of sad that that's their default interpretation.

    19. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by PvtVoid · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I really don't like how they do this extrapolation stuff. Like the universe is currently expanding, and based on the current rate of expansion (or the rate of change of that expansion) we assume it has always been expanding and that 14 billion years ago everything was crammed into something the size of a golf ball. I'm not anti-science, but that seems to be making a pretty big leap.

      This is mostly because you apparently don't understand the theory (or the data) very accurately, which is fine. But to take a layman's understanding of something and concluded that "all teh scientists are idiots" is really, really not a good idea.

      The evidence that cosmological expansion occurred in the distant past, not just today, is compelling, and direct. We can actually see light that has been traveling unimpeded since the universe was only 300,000 years old, which means that we can directly observe the conditions in the universe at that time. And it was hot, and dense.

    20. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice set of assumptions you've got there.

      Too bad most of them and the majority are, historically speaking, incredibly wrong.

      How they're wrong, we cannot say yet. However, using your exact same arguments, we can extrapolate...

      Captcha: template

    21. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      Sure the theory's wrong, but we don't know how yet, and our guesses are just so much better than they were a decade ago.
       
      Of course, in the entire history of the human race, we've never once actually confirmed or refuted a single predictions if this nature. This is where "faith" comes in.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    22. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can thank the inflationary period after the Big Bang for that difference.

      You don't need the inflationary period to explain the difference. Under constant expansion when light travels x years between A and B then A and B are farther than x light-years apart because each meter traversed by the light is now longer than it was when light traversed it.

    23. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      It may have been unintentionally present, but it was there. The OP has already recognized his mistake and moved on. You should as well.

    24. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      I think you're not understanding the underlying assumption. When they talk about life, they are not talking all forms of life; they are only discussing life as we know it. Life could possibly exist in strange ways which we do not know. For example being made of pure gas, not based on DNA, etc. So when they are extrapolating they are making reasonable assumptions. Now if they were to conjecture about all unknown forms of life, that would be conjecture.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    25. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      No, they understand & appreciate science - it's the very poorly worded message that the OP posted that many here are having problems understanding.

    26. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by QuantumLeaper · · Score: 1

      Maybe because both of them are gibbering monkeys? Maybe a better way to put it, we are all gibbering apes.

    27. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 2

      The problem is 'i kan reed' is a sarcastic asshole in all his conversations and not this one alone. Assuming he is being sarcastic is no great leap of interpretation as, from his own history, just about everything he says is sarcastic.

    28. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      You think the physics of planet formation in our galaxy was somehow magic or something?

      The evolution of intelligent live requires far more than "planet formation". The more we learn about Earth's history, the more we realize how long the odds were. First you need a rocky planet in the habitable "goldilocks" zone. Those are common in our region of the galaxy, but are likely less common further out, where there is more hydrogen/helium and fewer heavy elements. Then you need liquid water. The early earth was too hot and small to hold on to water (it lost almost all it's neon, which has about the same molecular weight). So the water came later, from comet impacts. But if you have too many big gas giants, they will suck up all the comets, and you end up with a desert planet like Arrakis (but without either worms or molecular oxygen). Too few gas giants, and you get too many comet impacts, which form a global ocean hundreds of km deep, like Europa. A ocean that deep has no upwelling, so the nutrients sink to the bottom, where there is no energy other then volcanic vents. Even if you get the water level right, too many comet ELEs can wipe out species before intelligence evolves. To few ELEs, and life stagnates, as species evolve into narrow niches.

    29. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Oh sure, everything I say is sarcastic. That's totally believable.

    30. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      That's pretty much the way in which science quite entirely unlike religion. "Humans are/Earth is special", my ass.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    31. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      Fortunately, Mother Nature had a metric fuckton of tries at her disposal. The only bad thing about the odds is that we won't be hearing of other such civilizations every two decades on Space CNN because the other successful tries will be too distant in time and/or space.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    32. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      If the space is expanding, I'd expect the objects to accelerate in time, and I'm not even sure how the speed of expansion changed over time, but I'm quite certain that merely dividing the current distance of two objects by the age of the Universe doesn't make much sense.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    33. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      They can only identify the known observable universe. However, it is unlikely that they have identified the habitable zone for the entire universe. It would be near impossible for them to identify the habitable zone for our galaxy. This is because we have no idea what is habitable because we only know about our life. Maybe that should say the like-human habitable zone of any given galaxy rather than the habitable zone of the universe.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    34. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google "comoving frame".

    35. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. People predicted that there were planets outside our solar system, and some contested that it was an oddity.

      No evidence for thousands of years, then just over a decade ago, BOOM, demonstrated. You're just being intellectually lazy, here.

    36. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      As opposed to, what, assuming that our galaxy is unique and special and doesn't follow the same rules as the other ones?

      Well, you can only extrapolate from what you have, so it is a useful exercise, but there is no reason that the rules apply the same everywhere. Nobody really understands what kinds of fields might exist on a large scale across the cosmos so it may very well be that there are things that behave differently elsewhere.

      It isn't about our galaxy being "special" per se, so much as the anthropic principle. There may very well be many galaxies in the exact same situation as ours, but that doesn't mean that all galaxies are, or even most.

      But, again, you can only work with the data you have, so it does make sense to at least ask what the universe is like assuming that it is uniform in behavior.

    37. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      If the space is expanding, I'd expect the objects to accelerate in time, and I'm not even sure how the speed of expansion changed over time, but I'm quite certain that merely dividing the current distance of two objects by the age of the Universe doesn't make much sense.

      Well, relative to each other everything seems to be accelerating apart. Of course, that is a recent result - until recently the universe seemed to be nearly flat - that is the expansion of the earth was asymptotically slowing towards a static universe (which it would never actually reach).

      I'm not an expert in such things, but there are a bunch of factors involved with relativistic motion. The relative passage of time slows, light becomes red-shifted (to the extent that an event that was incomprehensibly hot is redshifted to the temperature of something at 4K or so), and so on. We can actually "see" all the way to the beginning of the universe, simply because it was an incredibly brilliant flash of energy, but we can't see anything immediately afterwards because those objects are all red-shifted into undetectability (and there are also period of time where the universe was not transparent to light).

    38. Re: A few hundred extrasolar planets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until you go there, it's still only dots of light in the sky.

    39. Re:A few hundred extrasolar planets by business_kid · · Score: 1

      Mark Twain made my point, so I'll just quote him: In the space of one hundred and seventy-six years the Mississippi has shortened itself two hundred and forty-two miles. Therefore ... in the Old Silurian Period the Mississippi River was upward of one million three hundred thousand miles long ... seven hundred and forty-two years from now the Mississippi will be only a mile and three-quarters long. . . . . There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesome returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

  2. Sorry, no by oodaloop · · Score: 0

    This isn't science's domain, as long as it has anything to do with origins. For that. we need ancient superstitions.

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    1. Re:Sorry, no by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 0

      Actually, there's some sense in your statement. If you look at our world today, the biggest threat to life on this planet is not gamma rays. The biggest threat to life on this planet . . . is other life on this planet. Most of that is motivated by these "ancient superstitions".

      The cruel irony is, that Islam, Christianity and the Judaism are all based on the same Jewish Fairy Tales. And despite that it seems that Muslims are hell-bent on killing everyone who isn't a Muslim. This latest Islamic State crew even seem to want to kill fellow Muslims as well.

      Forget gamma rays. If, in the future, we are able to travel to habitable planets . . . we'll probably discover that the life there has destroyed itself. No need for gamma rays to do what life can do to itself.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:Sorry, no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The cruel irony is, that Islam, Christianity and the Judaism are all based on the same Jewish Fairy Tales.

      Which was all ripped from from the Babylonians, Sumerians, and Assyrians.

      They just keep re-hashing the same old myths and acting like they've come up with something new.

      It's all based on the same creation myth, even if they won't recognize it.

      Everything thereafter is just editorializing by humans, and relying on "evidence" which would get you a psychiatric evaluation these days because they're little more than signs of hallucinations.

    3. Re: Sorry, no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Atheist movements were responsible for roughly 100 million murders during the last century alone.

    4. Re:Sorry, no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we'll probably discover that the life there has destroyed itself

      Spoken like a true believer.

      In light of humanity completely having failed to destroy itself, you believe - against all common sense or logic - that we'll find habitable planets as barren, post-life places.

      Righto.

  3. Like Niven's "At the Core" by CRCulver · · Score: 1

    Astrobiologists have long known that these events are capable of causing mass extinctions by stripping a planet of its ozone layer and exposing the surface to lethal levels of radiation. The likelihood of being hit depends on the density of stars, which is why the center of galaxies are thought to be inhospitable to life.

    Like many here, I'm sure, I first considered the possibility that the galactic core was inhospitable to life when I read Larry Niven's 1968 short story "At the Core" (collected with his other "Beowulf Shaeffer" stories in Crashlander ). In his science-fiction tale, Niven had an astronaut visiting the core and witnessing the wash of radiation from so many supernovas placed so close together.

    Niven's story, however, ended with the astronaut coming back and warning that this massive wave of radiation would be moving towards Earth at the speed of light. If that were true, and even the edges of galaxies were not safe in the end, then every galaxy would be ultimately hostile to life, not just in their cores. Is this the case, or did Niven get it wrong?

    1. Re:Like Niven's "At the Core" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Niven's story is fine, but your conclusion isn't. If the massive wave of radiation is focused on a particular spot like Earth then the Earth is toast, but the rest is safe because the wave wasn't focused on it. If the massive wave of radiation is not focused on a particular spot, then its intensity decreases as 1/r^2 and everyone is safe.

    2. Re:Like Niven's "At the Core" by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Astrobiologists have long known that these events are capable of causing mass extinctions by stripping a planet of its ozone layer and exposing the surface to lethal levels of radiation. The likelihood of being hit depends on the density of stars, which is why the center of galaxies are thought to be inhospitable to life.

      Like many here, I'm sure, I first considered the possibility that the galactic core was inhospitable to life when I read Larry Niven's 1968 short story "At the Core" (collected with his other "Beowulf Shaeffer" stories in Crashlander ). In his science-fiction tale, Niven had an astronaut visiting the core and witnessing the wash of radiation from so many supernovas placed so close together.

      Niven's story, however, ended with the astronaut coming back and warning that this massive wave of radiation would be moving towards Earth at the speed of light. If that were true, and even the edges of galaxies were not safe in the end, then every galaxy would be ultimately hostile to life, not just in their cores. Is this the case, or did Niven get it wrong?

      I would find it very hard to believe radiation of such magnitude could be generated from a core and sterilize the galaxy on its way out. But then again, I'm not an Astrophysicist :)

      You would also like to read Niven's "Protector" if you haven't, and how sentient life actually evolved in a radiated home world near the core.

    3. Re:Like Niven's "At the Core" by Mr_Wisenheimer · · Score: 1

      If the core has a lot of young, hot stars then it could certainly sterilize a galaxy, especially a small one (I haven't done the calculations myself, but I suspect they would back me up if I did do them).

      Our galaxy is middle aged and very large, so we are probably not in so much danger out here in the galactic suburbs.

    4. Re:Like Niven's "At the Core" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Astrobiologists have long known that these events are capable of causing mass extinctions by stripping a planet of its ozone layer and exposing the surface to lethal levels of radiation. The likelihood of being hit depends on the density of stars, which is why the center of galaxies are thought to be inhospitable to life.

      Like many here, I'm sure, I first considered the possibility that the galactic core was inhospitable to life when I read Larry Niven's 1968 short story "At the Core" (collected with his other "Beowulf Shaeffer" stories in Crashlander [amazon.com] ). In his science-fiction tale, Niven had an astronaut visiting the core and witnessing the wash of radiation from so many supernovas placed so close together.

      Niven's story, however, ended with the astronaut coming back and warning that this massive wave of radiation would be moving towards Earth at the speed of light. If that were true, and even the edges of galaxies were not safe in the end, then every galaxy would be ultimately hostile to life, not just in their cores. Is this the case, or did Niven get it wrong?

      I would find it very hard to believe radiation of such magnitude could be generated from a core and sterilize the galaxy on its way out. But then again, I'm not an Astrophysicist :)

      You would also like to read Niven's "Protector" if you haven't, and how sentient life actually evolved in a radiated home world near the core.

      Slashdot isn't e-mail. It's absurd to quote an entire post when Slashdot has a "Parent" button. Quote only when commenting on a specific part.

    5. Re:Like Niven's "At the Core" by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Read up on active galaxies, eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A....

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  4. millions in a few decades by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Statistical extrapolation say at least half of the systems have them. We can only detect the one percent of edge-on systems with transit method or the fat-fast ones with doppler. But we've barely started to look at the systems within a couple thousand light years. There are millions of starts within this distance.

  5. Need two data points by gurps_npc · · Score: 2
    to do any extrapolation. With just a single data point (humanity), you are just making wild guesses.

    For all we now, dark matter (the most common form of matter), which we have never seen or studied, has variations as significant as normal matter, and therefore can support life, but only inside very radioactive areas, where they can feed.

    Not to mention we really need to to take a look at a couple of the ice moons and see if life does well living on moon with a frozen surface and a hot core providing energy. That could very well be the most common form of life sustaining location in the universe, and it could very well survive in places where atmospheric planets like earth could not.

    The very best we can do is make an estimate on where DNA based life forms may thrive on atmospheric planets..

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:Need two data points by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Agreed. It's awesome how science is getting a better and better understanding of how much of the universe is hospitable to us-like life. But it's always mentally-painful when stories like this make loudly-screaming-assumptions that we are a typical, or exclusive, model of what life in the universe looks like. The most trivial problem with the current story is that undersea or underground us-like life won't be much bothered of the atmosphere gets nuked with radiation. Stretching things a bit, we have no idea if gas giant planets could support some sort of life in the ocean-like depths of their atmospheres. And to go onto the deep unknown, there's about 6x as much dark matter as regular matter. The little we do know about dark matter does give some cause to doubt it's suitability for life, but our understanding of dark matter and our understanding of unlike-us life is far too thin to make any reasonable assumptions on the subject. Is there life out there? It's looking increasingly inevitable that more us-like life does exist, but we still know far too little to presume that we aren't a wildly a-typical form of life.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    2. Re:Need two data points by radtea · · Score: 1

      For all we now, dark matter (the most common form of matter), which we have never seen or studied, has variations as significant as normal matter, and therefore can support life, but only inside very radioactive areas, where they can feed.

      Actually, we're pretty sure dark matter is relatively smooth in its distribution and does not form anything even remotely equivalent to stars and planets (we'd see the gravitational lensing if it did). Nor can we figure out any way it could self-interact in a way that would sustain imperfectly replicating objects but not end up in clumps that eventually form large agglomerations.

      This is not to say that such things are impossible--the fact that we can't imagine something is not evidence for its non-existence--but likewise no one has been able to make the notion more than minimally plausible.

      To repeat: the evidence is that dark matter does not clump, and so far as we know clumping (self-interaction) is required for self-replication. If you can come up with a way to make self-replication with almost no self-interaction, it would help. Such self-replicating systems would have to be extremely large (galaxy-size or larger?) as the size of a structure is generally inversely proportional to the strength of the coupling between it's parts.

      With regard to the evidence for non-clumping dark matter, it comes in two forms. One is the direct observation of an absence of gravitational lensing by dark-matter clumps except on very large scales. The other is that if dark matter gets too clumpy it screws up the dynamics of normal matter on cosmic scales in such a way that stars and galaxies don't form in the way we observe them to.

      Simply because we have "never seen" something does not mean we don't have evidence that can allow us to draw useful inferences.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  6. Bogus "Science" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We already know that life takes all forms, including the discovery of some that eat radiation.

    These predictions and the people making them serve to provide an answer to a question that they humanity is wholly unqualified to answer. We don't even have anecdotal evidence about extraterrestrial life, let alone knowledge of anything outside of the Moon and Mars where nothing on the scale of normal discussion lives.

  7. How do we know life can't adapt to it? by satuon · · Score: 2

    Would the lethal radiation kill life in the deep ocean? It would need to kill ALL of life on that planet to make the planet inhospitable to life. Otherwise life would just adapt to it as yet another selection pressure.

    1. Re:How do we know life can't adapt to it? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      The radiation levels are high enough to strip atmospheres and burn away oceans on most non-gas/liquid planets.

    2. Re:How do we know life can't adapt to it? by radtea · · Score: 1

      To get a sense of the energies involved: if you're a light-year way from a supernova, the neutrinos will kill you, even though they barely interact with matter at all. One light year is pretty close, but the gamma ray flux is comparable to the neutrino flux and forty orders of magnitude more deadly, so no, deep ocean life even at great distances from the exploding star will be boiled rather than fried, but it would still be dead.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    3. Re:How do we know life can't adapt to it? by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 1

      To get a sense of the energies involved: if you're a light-year way from a supernova, the neutrinos will kill you, even though they barely interact with matter at all.

      Complete and utter bullshit. You are pulling numbers out of your ass. I give you the truth. I stopped reading your post after that sentence.

      --
      the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
    4. Re:How do we know life can't adapt to it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One light year is pretty close, but the gamma ray flux is comparable to the neutrino flux and forty orders of magnitude more deadly

      So the gamma rays will kill you if the supernova is 10^20 light-years away? What a load of made-up shit.

    5. Re:How do we know life can't adapt to it? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      To get a sense of the energies involved: if you're a light-year way from a supernova, the neutrinos will kill you, even though they barely interact with matter at all. One light year is pretty close, but the gamma ray flux is comparable to the neutrino flux and forty orders of magnitude more deadly,

      The numbers you assign here do not match reality, since if neutrinos from a supernova can kill you at 1ly, and gammas from same are 40 orders of magnitude more deadly, then a single supernova would sterilize the universe.

      Given that we can SEE supernovae, they obviously haven't sterilized US, much less the entire Universe.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    6. Re:How do we know life can't adapt to it? by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      But would life living comfortably in the subsurface ocean of a Europa be affected? I'd expect not.

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    7. Re:How do we know life can't adapt to it? by x_t0ken_407 · · Score: 1

      That. Is. Fucking. Awesome. I'll now be stuck reading through the archives on that domain for a while...didn't even know it existed after all these years reading xkcd!

  8. surface-life biased study? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Life can evolve just fine. These gamma-ray bursts don't affect deep-sea vent life.

    1. Re:surface-life biased study? by Bengie · · Score: 2

      The average GRB lasts about 0.3 seconds and releases as much energy as if your took 1,000 Earth and turned all of the mass into pure energy. If you're anywhere near that, bad things will happen.

    2. Re:surface-life biased study? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure if you're within 1 light-year of a GRB it might boil off the entire oceans, but my point is that the study makes its calculations assuming that a GRB is a threat to life evolution even if it merely "strips the ozone layer".

    3. Re:surface-life biased study? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      I think one of the issues of the whole "your atmosphere is now gone", is that a lot of poisonous chemicals are produced, which can still make their way into the oceans, assuming it's not frozen over.

  9. They have ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... generated a hypothesis. But is it testable?

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  10. Just in time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now that we have a 3D printer in Low Earth Orbit, clearly we'll be able to colonize the universe.

  11. Visiting galactic cores still important! by StefanJ · · Score: 1

    That's where you find the Wisdom Chits necessary to advance your civilization.

    (Wow . . . no hit on the correct reference ten pages into a Google search.)

    1. Re:Visiting galactic cores still important! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never heard of Outreach before, but my Google search for "galactic core" "wisdom chits" told me what I needed to know.
      Have people forgotten how to use search engines?

  12. Gwyrxia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This whole mapping is based on the idea that life will be very similar to ours. This is a questionable premise, I think.
    I read a great hypothetical article in ACM a few years ago that had me chuckling. It was called: "Fermi's Paradox and the End of the Universe" by Geoffrey Landis.

    Go to page 115 of http://issuu.com/diriangem_bravo/docs/communications2012_10

  13. Impressive! by edibobb · · Score: 1

    The entire universe is not observable, yet they managed to identify all the habitable zones in the entire universe. Very impressive.

  14. Partial answer to Fermi's paradox? by wisebabo · · Score: 1

    From the abstract: "life as it exists on Earth could not take place at z>0.5". I take this to mean (since I'm not a professional astronomer I am guessing that the variable "z" represents redshift) that life couldn't get started in the earl(ier) universe because the galaxies were closer together/with more gamma ray bursters etc.

    So a partial answer to Fermi's paradox (where are they?) is that we are one of the "first" to evolve into sentient beings because for "most" of the period before life evolved on the earth the whole universe was mostly uninhabitable. Of course I put "first" and "most" in quotation marks because we're talking about billions of years here; maybe the universe became reasonably habitable "only" a billion years before life arose on planet earth; that's still a lot of time! That's why I say this might be a "Partial" answer to Fermi's paradox, there would still be time for some civilizations to arise way before us. Just not as many and perhaps no really ancient multi-billion year old civilizations.

    1. Re:Partial answer to Fermi's paradox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice reasoning. I appreciate that.

    2. Re:Partial answer to Fermi's paradox? by simoncpu+was+here · · Score: 1

      For the sake of this discussion, let's assume that the Judeo-Christian God is real.

      We're probably the first sentient beings to evolve because it doesn't make sense for God to incarnate himself as Christ here on Earth. If sentient beings exist on other planets, alien God incarnates (alien Christs) have to die multiple times to save the entire universe.

  15. GRB's necessary for advanced life, perhaps? by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 1

    On the other hand, it might very well be that without galactic ray radiation shaking up the DNA mix every now and then we'd all still be pond scum right now.

  16. Good News! by grep_rocks · · Score: 1

    This is good news people as it is a mark in favor of the only optimisic answer I can think of to the Fermi paradox - i.e. life is rare and could only have formed fairly recently- the other answers are ugly and imply our imment extinction.... cheer up people!

    1. Re:Good News! by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      The most realistic answer is that space is bigger than you imagine, nobody knows we're here, and the energy required for long distance space travel never becomes practical or politically acceptable on a large scale. There's really no reason to expect aliens to continue spending their resources on expansion unless they're Borg.

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