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Ask Slashdot: Finding a Job After Completing Computer Science Ph.D?

Posted by timothy on from the I'm-a-people-person-dammit dept.

An anonymous reader writes I recently completed my PhD in computer science and hit the job market. I did not think I would have difficulty finding a job esp. with a PhD in computer science but I have had no luck so far in the four months I have been looking. Online resume submittals get no response and there is no way to contact anybody. When I do manage to get a technical interview, it is either 'not a good match' after I do the interviews or get rejected after an overly technical question like listing all the container classes in STL from the top of my head. I had worked as a C++ software developer before my PhD but in the past 6 years, software development landscape has changed quite a bit. What am I doing wrong? Has software development changed so much in the last 6 years I was in school or is my job hunting strategy completely wrong? (The PhD was on a very technical topic that has very little practical application and so working on it does not seem to count as experience.)

14 of 479 comments (clear)

  1. overqualified by mpicpp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Many companies are going to think you won't stay or will want too much money. You can hire a PhD from India for $1500 a month.

  2. Why? by grumpyman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm just curious on your initial motivation for a PhD? Maybe research/academic is an option?

    1. Re:Why? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or more pertinent to a PhD in particular is: what was your focus? A PhD isn't like a BS or even MS, it almost always reflects a near unique level of understanding something. What was it? What was your thesis? Why are you not working on that, in particular?

    2. Re:Why? by metlin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Motivation notwithstanding, I would also suggest that you consider consulting.

      I work in management consulting in one of the MBB firms, and we hire quite a few ADCs (Advanced Degree Candidates), particularly in the hard sciences.

      The idea is that a PhD provides you with enough critical thinking and quantitative skills that would be extremely valuable in what you do. And you'd be surprised at the type of work that you'd get to do. As long as you have some semblance of social skills that can be cultivated and the ability to think quickly on your feet, you should be fine.

      A good way to think about this is what happens when your senior client executive throws some numbers and asks you a question in the elevator -- can you quickly give an answer, and be professional and polite about it without becoming a nervous wreck?

      Right now, I work with several PhDs and MDs in the healthcare payer/provider space, and their deep medical expertise is extremely valuable. We have similar profiles of folks with PhDs in mechanical/aeronautical/industrial engineering for industrial goods work, CS/EE PhDs in telecom/media/high-tech industry work and so on. You would be surprised at just how many PhDs, MDs, JDs, and the likes are hired by top tier consulting firms.

      Despite what you may have heard of consulting on Slashdot and elsewhere, we do some pretty cool work. Yes, the hours aren't easy and you'll travel a lot, but consider it baptism by fire. In a span of two years, you would have worked on a wide array of projects and will have honed your hard and soft skills -- everything from building financial models to presenting to very senior executives.

      And surprisingly, you will work with some very smart people. Yes, many of them may have MBAs, but just as many have other advanced degrees, and even the ones with MBAs also have pretty strong undergrad credentials (e.g., Harvard, MIT, Stanford), usually STEM.

      So, whatever your motivations may have been, I will just say that consulting will teach you skills that are very hard to acquire elsewhere. It may be baptism by fire, but your value in the job market will grow by leaps and bounds.

      Something to consider. :)

    3. Re:Why? by schlachter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To this point...if you have a PhD, you're not really qualified as a software engineer/developer anyways. You probably shouldn't be applying to vanilla programming jobs and you shouldn't be in interviews where someone asks you detailed coding questions.

      Find a job where you can leverage your skills as a scientist, as a researcher, and as someone who can write proposals and lead others.

      --
      My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
  3. List the STL? Seriously? by ZorinLynx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >technical question like listing all the container classes in STL from the top of my head

    Do experienced devs even know this? I've programmed in several languages and I could never give a list of functions on demand. That's what reference material is for.

    You honestly dodged a bullet with that one; any company that asks for such a thing has a damaged tech culture.

  4. Use a headhunter and resume writer by ageoffri · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since you didn't mention these two things, they are my suggestion. First pay a professional company to re-write your resume, I did this 3 years ago and it was night and day difference. I think I spent about $800, they also wrote a linkedin profile for me to paste there. Next research and find a good recruiting company and let them do some of the searching for you. Just know that these days the best recruiters don't charge you, they make their money from the company that hires you.

    --
    -- Slashdot, making the Left look conservative since 1997.
  5. Don't put PhD in the resume by PHPNerd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know it's sad, but hide your PhD. Most employers are scared of PhD's for multiple reasons: (1) they don't want to pay them what their credentials demand , (2) many hiring bosses are intimidated or feel threatened to have an underling with more education than they do, and (3) they are probably hesitant to invest in someone who is so highly credentialed for fear of losing them when a sweet offer comes around. Sad, I know. But I'd go ahead and hide the PhD. (Disclaimer: I'm working on mine now)

  6. ask your advisor by crgrace · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Surely your advisor has links to industry? Where does the funding come from? Industrial consortia? Federal sources (NSF / DOE / etc). Can you look at doing a postdoc at a National Lab so you can make some contacts? If you don't, ask your advisor for help. It is the least he or she can do for you.

    I don't think resume sites are good places for a newly minted PhD to look for work. You surely did some networking while you were a student. Did you present your research at some conferences? Those are the people you should be talking to about work, not filling out on-line applications. At the PhD level you find work based on a personal network, not web-based applications (although you will need to fill those out for compliance).

  7. Leave the PhD off your CV for a couple of years. by Ami+Ganguli · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not fair, but it's probably better to just list your master's for now.

    Right now they figure you won't be happy with a junior position, but you don't have the experience from them to trust you with something more senior. Once you've got a bit of experience put the PhD back on. It will help you land more senior jobs later.

    --
    It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
  8. are you sure there is no practical application by crgrace · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You assert without proof that your research has no practical application. Were your researching how to implement LOGO in VAX assembly language or something?

    More to the point, if your research was on the cutting edge of Computer Science I assure you it has practical applications. Use some of the research skills that you gained obtaining your PhD and put them to use identifying companies that have business or research interests in line with your own. Then, using LinkedIn or conference proceedings, identify researchers and engineers with interests similar to your own and contact them. Ask to set up informational interviews. See if they "know anyone" looking for new researchers. Build a network tirelessly until you have a job.

    You have a PhD. You're not a programmer anymore. Accept it and don't look for programming jobs. Most organizations that are pushing the state-of-the-art have need for PhD-level people. Find them and find your niche.

  9. Re:Job market does not like PhDs by Darinbob · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Any place that shuns someone with a masters degree is pretty sucky, I feel sorry for you. There are many companies that value people with education. Do you really think at the CTO and architect level that they prefer BA to BS, and BS to MS, and MS to PhD? Granted, fresh graduates don't get those jobs but people do work up to them. Not everyone is in the trenches forever doing coding that other people tell them to do, eventually there's someone in the company that has to actually know something, if the company is worth anything.

  10. Re: Read Slashdot by Noah+Haders · · Score: 4, Insightful

    -1 disagree. the best thing you have going for you right now is your phd. you committed to being a world expert in one particular realm of knowledge. I think a really fruitful path would be to look deeply into what doors that expertise opens for you. Better to do this than to walk away from the expertise and end up with the rest of the people here on slashdot.

    second, follow your peers. where are all the other phds going? and what makes them qualified to go there?

    I'm not surprised you're having poor luck in the general job market. the middle managers who are doing hiring will resent you for your intellect and success. this is why you get thrown the stupid questions like "name all the words in the dictionary from your head". they are tearing you down because they feel bad about where they are in their lives.

  11. Re: Read Slashdot by asliarun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is coming from someone who has been in IT for 20 years, very successfully, and has never taken any computer courses...

    Get a freaking skill!!! The OP admits that the subject of the PhD is not applicable to really anything in the world. You might as well have spent 6 years of your life under a rock, because you are now the utmost expert at that tiny, inapplicable area.

    Want cash and job security up the wahoo? Go pick up a CCNA book, and $500 of used Cisco gear on eBay. Get CCNA and a network admin job at a small, growing company who can't afford to pay you more than $50,000. Proceed to get your CCNP. Invest another $10,000 and two years and get CCIE. Go to "whatever the hell company you want" and make $120k+ and never worry about unemployment again.

    +1. The key to long term success is being hardnosed about failures/setbacks/sub-optimal jobs, having long term focus, and putting yourself in a position where you can demonstrate your value and skills. But most of all, it is being pragmatic in the short term while being optimistic in the long term.

    Having long term focus means picturing yourself on what you would consider a fulfilling job, and how exactly you see yourself and your job. Say, in 10 years. By focus, I mean take up a low paying job if necessary, as long as it is aligned to your long term goals. Good Example: Joining a company with a core focus on quality programming, but as a junior developer instead of a senior developer or lead or whatever else you might be expecting.
    Bad Example: Joining the IT department (cost center) of say, a big manufacturing company. Might pay well in the short term, but will eventually be a dead-end for you.

    Being hard-nosed means continue trying. Obviously, fine tuning or tweaking your strategy and where/how you are applying. By far, the easiest way to get into a company is through referrals. So can any of your buddies help you out? They get to make decent money through referral bonuses too. Also, is your location preference dragging you down? Again, in a long enough time-frame, say, 15 years from now, you will barely remember the extra 3 months (or 6 months or whatever) you put in during your initial struggling phase. So why bother getting demoralized by it now?

    Lastly, don't get desperate to find a job. Your job and your company is as good as your boss. Use the interview process to figure out how much you like your future boss. If you boss isn't even interviewing you (rare, but happens), you probably don't want to work in that company to begin with.

    And please remember - an extra 3-6 months of job hunting is way way better than making a mistake. Typically, from my experience, people take 2-3 years on average to fix a mistake (bad job, bad boss, bad company, bad growth opportunities).