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Miss a Payment? Your Car Stops Running

HughPickens.com writes Auto loans to borrowers considered subprime, those with credit scores at or below 640, have spiked in the last five years with roughly 25 percent of all new auto loans made last year subprime, a volume of $145 billion in the first three months of this year. Now the NYT reports that before they can drive off the lot, many subprime borrowers must have their car outfitted with a so-called starter interrupt device, which allows lenders to remotely disable the ignition. By simply clicking a mouse or tapping a smartphone, lenders retain the ultimate control. Borrowers must stay current with their payments, or lose access to their vehicle and a leading device maker, PassTime of Littleton, Colo., says its technology has reduced late payments to roughly 7 percent from nearly 29 percent. "The devices are reshaping the dynamics of auto lending by making timely payments as vital to driving a car as gasoline."

Mary Bolender, who lives in Las Vegas, needed to get her daughter to an emergency room, but her 2005 Chrysler van would not start. Bolender was three days behind on her monthly car payment. Her lender remotely activated a device in her car's dashboard that prevented her car from starting. Before she could get back on the road, she had to pay more than $389, money she did not have that morning in March. "I felt absolutely helpless," said Bolender, a single mother who stopped working to care for her daughter. Some borrowers say their cars were disabled when they were only a few days behind on their payments, leaving them stranded in dangerous neighborhoods. Others said their cars were shut down while idling at stoplights. Some described how they could not take their children to school or to doctor's appointments. One woman in Nevada said her car was shut down while she was driving on the freeway. Attorney Robert Swearingen says there's an old common law principle that a lender can't "breach the peace" in a repossession. That means they can't put a person in harm's way. To Swearingen, that would mean "turning off a car in a bad neighborhood, or for a single female at night."

38 of 907 comments (clear)

  1. Oh good by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm glad the finance companies found a way to make "be late on your payment, while you scrounge up money" a worse option for the poor than "let your family starve while you scrounge up money". :-/

    1. Re:Oh good by Jhon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Lucky for them. All that money they save will help fight the lawsuits they'll have for accidents on freeways and intersections...

    2. Re:Oh good by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that some percentage of that increased value is going to pay for the devices being installed, and their management. And what they're changing, according to the summary is late payments, not non-payments. Meaning the amount of risk mitigation is on the order of a fraction of a percent.

      Besides, that decrease in cost does little to handle the situation I described above. It only works if you buy into the neo-liberal notion that more liquidity in an economy always benefits all actors of that economy. I don't.

    3. Re:Oh good by Demonantis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is not a good thing for predatory loans to exist. These people can't afford the way they are living. They need to rejigger their lives. The loans just prolong the agony and inflate prices for everyone by creating demand and buying power where demand and buying power should not exist.

    4. Re:Oh good by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...and this is why I have never made a car payment since the early 1990's, when I got a car repo'd while I was off serving in Desert Storm (once I pointed out that the bank broke the law by doing the repo, I discovered the costs of bringing the car back across two states --or a lawyer to fight that-- was way out of scope for an E-4 sergeant's budget.) It was then that I resolved to never, ever make payments on a car again... ever.

      Since then, I've driven some outright piles of crap throughout the 1990s, but I've always owned my cars free and clear. I save up the money as best I can until I have enough to buy something newer in reasonably decent condition.

      This has progressed from $300-400 hoopties, to a 1988 Mustang (in 1999) for $400, to a 1991 Jeep Wrangler (in 2001) for $4500, to a 2003 Pontiac Sunfire (in 2007) for $7200, to a brand-new 2013 Kia Soul for $14,200.

      Each time, I saved my pennies and paid cash, which gave me a drastically lower pricetag, and I own the thing up-front. As a bennie, I still have both the Sunfire and the Soul (my wife drives the latter, and the former is still rolling along just fine at 150k miles), and the Soul is fully covered under warranty for the next 8 years. The Jeep finally died for good in 2013 (too much rust decayed the frame), prompting the new Kia. I gained the advantage of being very handy around a vehicle with tools and knowing junkyards very well, though most of that was self-taught over the years from turning outright shit-piles into decent running cars.

      Long story short? Yeah it sucks that you can't drive some NewShiny that gathers all the babes, but start small and build up over time. Save, save, save... and always pay cash. You wind up paying less over the long run, the salesman suddenly wants to kiss your ass, and you get a better deal overall.

      Oh, and in many of the cases up there, I managed to sell the older cars for more than I paid for them (though nowadays I figure I'll just drive the ones I have until they finally die for good.)

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    5. Re:Oh good by fustakrakich · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...this induces suffering for unreasonably small business gains...

      For the sociopath, every penny counts, and they are 100% apathetic about "suffering". On the other hand, they enjoy watching, that's just how they roll. More and more we are rewarding this behavior in all our institutions.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    6. Re:Oh good by msauve · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Being subject to grave bodily injury..."

      Now, there's an exaggeration. It's a starter interlock - it doesn't stop a running car (despite what the lady who ran out of gas on the highway claimed). If someone drives to, then stops their car in a bad neighborhood, well, that was their choice. If a car isn't maintained, and is so unreliable that it shuts off at intersections and needs restarting, the owner is already putting themselves in danger.

      And, of course, they voluntarily entered into a loan contract with this as a requirement - they made a choice there, too.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    7. Re:Oh good by Wycliffe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How do you define predatory? Let's say I lose my job and burn thru my savings and then my car breaks down.
      I'm late on my mortgage and have maxed out my credit card. Yes, I did it mostly to myself, but now let's say
      I do manage to find a job and don't live in a big city and need to get to work. I'm too risky for someone to give
      me a loan but with one of these devices someone who otherwise would not sell me a car might be willing to
      take that risk. Is this a predator because they are selling me a car when noone else will?
      Same with payday cash loan places. They are willing to loan money to people when banks won't. In exchange
      they charge considerably higher interest rates but still probably better than getting a loan from a loan shark
      that gets you to pay him back with a baseball bat. Desparate people do desparate things. You can't eliminate
      predatory loans without eliminating desparate people. It's much better to regulate it than outlaw it and sometimes
      even people who aren't living incorrectly come up short of money when they need it most.

    8. Re:Oh good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I can't believe this woman was paying $389/mo for a car, when there are cars out there that you can buy outright for 3-4 payments worth.

    9. Re:Oh good by Moof123 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Payday loans are a scurge on the earth. If you have to resort to one you are already financially toast, and all they do is suck you into a final debt black hole that is nearly impossible to escape.

      The need to install an ignition interrupter makes it clear that these loans should not have been made in the first place, and put htese loans into the same category as payday loans. The practice should not be legal, and these customers should simply not qualify for these vehicles in the first place.

      There are plenty of ways to rant on the financial misery that is fairly common in our country. We have a weak safety net, basic home accounting/budgeting is either not taught or poorly taught, wages are stagnant, living and working in the USA without a car is a poor option in nearly all parts of the country, etc. These loans and associated practices are just one more symptom of a broad set of problems we have in this country.

    10. Re:Oh good by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except that some percentage of that increased value is going to pay for the devices being installed, and their management.

      That's not as big a cost as you think. You see, these kinds of car dealers that specialize in bad-credit buyers expect to repossess the cars eventually. They don't make their money from buying a car and selling it once at a higher price; they make their money from selling, repossessing, and re-selling the same car over and over again, while collecting usurious interest payments in the intervals between sale and repossession. All these devices do is make the cycle more efficient (and thus more profitable) by shortening the time between the first non-payment and the repossession.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    11. Re:Oh good by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I was him, I would have billed the loan company for the time he was not driving. After all is fair, right?

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    12. Re:Oh good by TWX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We visited a friend last night that is trying to sell a vehicle that's been sitting awhile. The battery is dead and a potential buyer made outlandish claims for what could be wrong with the vehicle in order to try to lowball her. All that would have been necessary to avoid that fiasco was to replace the battery, air-up the tires, and check the fluid levels and top-off as needed, then drive it around a bit to verify that it's still good to go.

      I could probably remove or bypass this anti-nonpayment disabler device in the same way that one could disable a breathalyzer or antitheft starter disabler device, but I don't think that most people could. What they need to do is to define rules for how long a grace-period post-payment-due should be, then make the device in the car itself notify the users through audio playback that they are past-due and have x days or x starts left before the vehicle shuts down until payment is received. That would satisfy a moral obligation to not leave someone stranded without notice, and would also prompt people to make their car payments if it's slipped their mind.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    13. Re:Oh good by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Payday loans are a scurge on the earth. If you have to resort to one you are already financially toast, and all they do is suck you into a final debt black hole that is nearly impossible to escape.

      Well if you are already "financially toast", then it's pretty easy to escape. Just stop paying back your loans. Your credit score will be ruined, and no one will ever lend you money again. So what? That's where we started and where you wanted to end up anyway.

      We don't have a debtor's prison in the USA. The worst punishment you will get for not having money, is that people will stop giving you money. There are even limits on how much your wages can be garnished.

    14. Re:Oh good by JeffAtl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They'd just ignore any bill that you sent them.

    15. Re:Oh good by zarthrag · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you drive off the lot with a loan for a car that is fully depreciated already, and you paid an appropriate amount for the car, even without a down payment, the lender has a relatively small amount of risk.

      That's the kicker, right there. These customers do not, nor will they ever, have $2500 for a down payment (If they did, they could buy a "real" car.) These places take vehicles with a bluebook value of $2000-$5000 and sell them for $10,000 or more with little to nothing "down", at the maximum interest rate the law will allow, and with an "as-is" warranty term.

      It's usury, plain and simple. These snakes are just waiting for you to slip-up on a payment. Fees for being late are fair. But their goal is to simply repo the very moment you're late with a payment. Because, then, they can repo the car - sell it again (and again, until it can't be sold). Auction it. Then still leave you with a credit-report item for the difference.

      A remote kill-switch (and probably GPS for recovery) only increases profits, I'm sure.

      Believe it or not, but 95% of 'Merica isn't New York/Chicago/LA/Big-City. Here in Tulsa, there is no public transit to speak of. Unless you plan carefully where you live/work, it's quite difficult - maybe impossible - to live/work/eat without constant access to a car.

      Profits over people. It's the American way.

      --
      Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
    16. Re:Oh good by ewibble · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Where I live a car is not an essential item, it maybe in some places, but people still buy cars that the cannot afford here. Without one you will probably end up healthier anyway. It costs a lot of money to maintain. This may be different in places without public transport.

      If you cannot afford to buy a car for cash you probably cannot afford to pay double or triple that price in interest to borrow the money to buy that car. If you borrow to buy the car you are effectively paying a higher price for the car, so if you are broke do you really want to throw your money away? It is a bad decision.

      If you actually need a car, and I mean NEED, for example for work, not just really really want because would be more convenient, that logic would change of course but you should still get the cheapest possible car. Be careful you don't convince yourself you need the car, when you really don't, if you try hard enough you can come up reason to justify any purchase. I need a TV to keep up with current events, I need a smart phone, keep up my emails, ... people survived thousands of years without any of these things and you probably can too.

      I drive a 1994 Toyota, works fine doesn't break down often. I don't actually need the car.

    17. Re:Oh good by LordLimecat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I cant believe the degree to which blame shifting is happening in this thread. How about you meet your financial obligations, or dont take out loans you cant afford?

      When you park illegally and they boot your car, do you then complain that you werent able to pick up your sick diabetic daughter from chemotherapy? Or do you have a moment of introspection and ask, "how did I screw up in this situation, and how can I do better?"

    18. Re:Oh good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Are you a subprime loan company? An average person could not possibly comprehend the terms of a normal loan agreement let alone the complicated double securitized and clause layer caked shitholes known as subprime loans. The loans are made to intentionally mislead a systematically disprivileged class of people who might be desperate for a car so that they can live. Slashdot is like Ayn Rand foundation sometimes

    19. Re:Oh good by GrahamCox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Obviously you've never had your circumstances suddenly change, for example lost your job unexpectedly, or had a close family member (or yourself) fall ill. I know it's therefore a big stretch of the imagination, but how about showing a little bit of compassion?

  2. what's a bad neighborhood in this context by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1, Insightful

    >> turning off a car in a bad neighborhood

    In other words, where they live?

  3. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  4. Only single females? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What makes a single male any safer in a dangerous neighborhood?

    1. Re:Only single females? by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They'll rob you, but they probably won't rape you.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  5. Re:Uhhh by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No it isn't. We made a relatively early decision in this country that debt slavery isn't acceptable, nor are debtors' prisons. We also decided you don't necessarily have full rights to your own money when you have an outstanding financial obligation, and that your wages can be legally garnished.

    But we also have legal protections to insure that punitive and fiduciary measures don't create undue hardship. We have a pretty good system that does alright at balancing the risk-mitigating concerns of the creditor with the basic needs of the debtor, but in no way is failure to pay a debt actually illegal.

    That fact doesn't even remotely justification the mindless advocation for it that the GP has. We don't need to have any Shylocks(and no, I'm not trying invoke the fact that he's Jewish) coming along for their pounds of flesh.

  6. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  7. Re:These people are doing it to themselves by Fishbone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah poor people, suck it up and call an ambulance. It's only a couple extra grand tacked on to your hospital bill anyway.

    Wait, you mean this whole situation BEGAN with financial problems, and this would only compound the issue? Oh, I guess it isn't so easy as "call an ambulance" and "don't be a stereotype."

  8. Needing Protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    That means they can't put a person in harm's way. To Swearingen, that would mean "turning off a car in a bad neighborhood, or for a single female at night."

    Either we're striving for equality in which females aren't protected by males or we're not. Please stop letting women play helpless victims while at the same time demanding preferential treatment for tons of other things. Equality kills all modern chivalry.

  9. Competition by tepples · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In the absence of a government-protected monopoly, if all sellers' costs decrease, competition will drive the price down over time. Ideally this is as true of automobile finance as it is of any other good or service. Or to which monopoly are you referring?

    1. Re:Competition by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      " if all sellers' costs decrease, competition will drive the price down over time."
      Nope. We have seen many time where that does NOT happen, and it never happen equatable.

      While technically true, it's as accurate as calculating falling rate while ignoring all other variable. Wind resistance, area of the object, etc.
      Fine for introduction teaching, but not fine in the actual real world.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Competition by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In the absence of a government-protected monopoly, if all sellers' costs decrease, competition will drive the price down over time.

      Horseshit.

      If all sellers have their costs go down, prices stay the same and profits go up.

      Or they get together as a group and decide where to set the price.

      Your faith in the market to respond to these ways in a way which isn't anti-consumer is quaint, but it isn't what happens in the real world.

      In the real world, corporations have shareholders to answer to, and a lowering of costs doesn't translate into a lowering of prices.

      So I have zero faith that your theoretical model of competition in any way matches what actually happens. Because corporations have demonstrated time and time again they aren't interested in such things.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:Competition by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If all sellers have their costs go down, prices stay the same and profits go up.

      Profits will go up because they will be able to make loans to people who weren't able to afford the interest rates they would have needed to pay before.

      Or they get together as a group and decide where to set the price.

      Besides being collusion, which is illegal, your assertion is easily debunked by anyone who has ever purchased a used car. You can play dealers off of one another, or even just buy a car from Craigslist. There are dealers all over the freaking place, and you can get financing from non-dealers. There are far too many parties involved for collusion. The used car market is very close to pure capitalism, except for transaction taxes, registration, proof of insurance, and other regulations which make the transaction too expensive to do frequently.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    4. Re:Competition by RobertM1968 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wrong - T-Mobile, who doesn't act like a traditional carrier, is SINGLE HANDEDLY driving down rates.

      Before they went on their marketing blitzes to let people know, AT&T and Verizon kept raising rates, or suckering people into plans that they'd then drop and replace with more expensive things at the earliest contract excuse.

      Not every market has a T-Mobile. The insurance industry is one such market.

  10. Re:Uhhh by gmhowell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Debt slavery is perfectly legal in the US as long as you call it 'alimony'.

    --
    Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  11. Re:This is evil by sinij · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >>>People who got NINJA loans were a prime reason for the mortgage crisis.

    Not quite. People who gave out NINJA loans to people who had no hope of repaying these loans and then proceeding to misrepresent these loans as AAA were the prime reason for the crisis.

  12. Re:What is the net effect? by swb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wonder if it moved a lot of cars from "able to repo and sell again to someone else" to "remotely shut down and then reported stolen and torched in a shitty neighborhood."

  13. Re:It's the bank's car by geogob · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Buy a piggybank for $1
    Put $389 in the first month
    Set aside $389 in the second month
    Break piggy bank
    Combine two sums
    Buy 8-year old car

    How is that for a payment plan?

  14. Re:Pay cash by RabidReindeer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Being poor can be a real juggling act.

    You probably don't have enough liquid assets to pay cash for a big-ticket item, but you can scrape by lots of "easy payments", even those the interest rates may be ruinous. You may, in fact, spend considerable time and effort on juggling bills because you can't pay them all, you simply rotate who gets stiffed that month. And then pay again because there will be penalties and late fees.

    Being poor involves a completely different mindset. You can't afford to trade convenience for money because you have no money. You become timid because so many of life's problems can be smoothed out or solved if you have money, but you don't have money. So you take extra care to try and not have those problems.

    And, of course, you buy a pair of carboard-soled boots every 6 months because you cannot afford to just up and buy leather-soled boots that will last 6 years, even though in the long run it's cheaper. Because everything has to be done in the short run.

    It's all very well to say "pay cash", but you have to have the cash to begin with. If you start out at zero and you have no excess income to save, you're not going to have the cash. If your reserves are low and Tiny Tim breaks a leg, there go all the savings.

    Then again, we all know that if they'd just work hard, they would all be billionaires, just like us hard-working folks. Who gives a crap about stupid lazy poor people?