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Ask Slashdot: Swift Or Objective-C As New iOS Developer's 1st Language?
macs4all (973270) writes "I am an experienced C and Assembler Embedded Developer who is contemplating for the first time beginning an iOS App Project. Although I am well-versed in C, I have thus-far avoided C++, C# and Java, and have only briefly dabbled in Obj-C. Now that there are two possibilities for doing iOS Development, which would you suggest that I learn, at least at first? And is Swift even far-enough along to use as the basis for an entire app's development?
My goal is the fastest and easiest way to market for this project; not to start a career as a mobile developer. Another thing that might influence the decision: If/when I decide to port my iOS App to Android (and/or Windows Phone), would either of the above be an easier port; or are, for example, Dalvick and the Android APIs different enough from Swift/Obj-C and CocoaTouch that any 'port' is essentially a re-write?"
Swift is still a very immature language, with lots of bugs in the compiler, rough support in the debugger and IDE, and the syntax isn't even set in stone yet (don't expect the syntax to settle down before Swift 2.0, probably some time in late 2015 if not 2016). There are a number of things that you still can't do in Swift (e.g. providing a callback function for APIs that expect a C function pointer), and you'll just spend a lot more time hitting your head against walls than writing working code. On top of this there are many more resources available for learning Objective-C than there are for Swift, and the pitfalls and corner cases are better understood for Objective-C than they are for Swift. As a bonus most of your instincts honed on C will carry over to Objective-C (while they are likely to lead you astray in Swift).
Swift is a really exciting language, and fun to play around with, but it's not ready for production work (yet). It will get there, but in the mean time you should stick with the established tools, which means Objective-C for iOS and Mac OS X app development.
just a ghost in the machine.
A lot of comments here saying how Obj-C is "ugly", and so forth. I wonder how many commenters are actually using it to any great extent, on a day-to-day basis, rather than have just looked at it out of curiosity for five minutes?
If you want to write an app now, Obj-C is the only sensible choice. Swift looks promising, but it's not ready. It's changing almost weekly and at the moment it's actually introducing bugs into the frameworks where none exist in Obj-C. If you want to live on the bleeding edge, go for Swift, but if you want to write an app, get it working and ship it out of the door, Obj-C is the only game in town today.
Once you get into Obj-C, it's a much more elegant language than it's usually given credit for anyway. Sure, it's old, but the runtime and compiler work put in in recent years makes up for many of its older roots. Manual memory management is not required, there is a dot syntax for properties and so on, so square brackets are not the only way to call getter/setter methods. As a pure superset of C99, it's easy for a C programmer to learn. It's also a small language. The real power lies in the frameworks, and that will take you far longer to learn than the language. Don't be put off by the superficial "ugliness" of Obj-C code, it isn't relevant. It's expressive and straightforward, and as a former C++ programmer, I also found it dramatically more productive when I first adopted it over a decade ago. It is possible to become fond of it, believe it or not. Whether the same eventually becomes true of Swift, only time will tell. Ignore the nay-sayers who have probably never actually used Obj-C in anger in their lives.
It was my understanding that if you want "complete" control, you still need to use ObjC, and that Swift was for dashboards, things previously known as WebApps, and other lightweight situations where you aren't actually doing anything novel, just packaging an interface to a datastore or moving sprites around.
That said, Swift is just as good on inheritance as ObjC, and does garbage collection correctly (benefits of a CLR).
ObjC has been tuned to OS X/iOS, and if you write in ObjC, you should be able to make a single back end that's easily portable to OS X as well as iOS; Swift would be more for iOS only.
I really do like the real-time iteration available in Swift though.
That said, my opinion must be crap, because I'm older than Java too :D I still like Pascal and Common LISP, but wouldn't write a modern application in them (flashback to writing Avara mods in the 90's using ClarisWorks). Most stuff I write these days is in C or Python.
Oooof. So much wrong in a single post. Let's review....
Swift definitely does not do garbage collection. Obj-C actually had a garbage collector for a while (Swift never has) but it was optional, and support for it has ended.
What Obj-C has now is something called ARC (Automatic Reference Counting). At compile time (not run time) the compiler does a static analysis of the code and determines where it needs to add memory management code, and then quietly does so for you. This means there is no run time hit, and behind the scenes everything is still manual memory management. Sometimes you still need to hint to the compiler what to do (usually when trading pointers with C), but 99.99% of the time it just works.
Swift is built on the same runtime as Obj-C, so it inherits ARC. With Obj-C, you can turn ARC off and continue writing manual code, and I'm not sure if Swift allows the same, but it's the exact same behavior. Swift uses the same manual memory management functions as Obj-C in the background, while in the foreground the developer still writes without memory management. I'm not sure what this "benefits of a CLR" is you're talking about, as that's a term usually associated specifically with the Common Language Runtime of the Microsoft language family, but it's neither here nor there. Swift does not run in a VM (it's natively compiled just like C or Obj-C), and it does not have a garbage collector. (But the compiler will add your memory management code for you.)
As far as Swift being multi platform, Swift most definitely for sure runs on OS X, so the language choice has absolutely no bearing on what platforms you want to port between. I have a partially Swift project going on the Mac right now. Swift is definitely not iOS only. Beyond that, it looks like Apple will be working to open source much of it and move it to other platforms.
I'm not sure what this business is about Swift being for lightweight solutions. It runs on the same runtime as Obj-C, it's starting to be as fast as Obj-C, and it interoperates with any Obj-C code (as Obj-C will interoperate with any Swift code). Apple has never messaged that it's for lightweight apps, and developers aren't treating it that way. I still prefer Obj-C, but I'm not sure what that bit is about at all.
Here's why you should learn Objective-C first:
Swift is designed to make it easy to build apps that include a mix of Swift, C, and Objective-C. Therefore, there's no reason to believe that it won't be possible to write fully capable apps for iOS and OS X in Objective-C for the foreseeable future. And even if, God forbid, Apple decides to be a bunch of a**holes and starts shipping a bunch of Swift-only classes in a reckless and desperate attempt to pressure developers to switch to Swift, you'll still only be a tiny bit of glue code away.
That's not to say that Swift isn't interesting. The ability to test code on the fly is certainly cool, and if Swift proves to be a long-term-viable language, I'd imagine it will eventually (over a couple of decades) become the dominant language for OS X and iOS development. However, there's plenty of time to learn Swift. If you want to start writing real-world code today, you're better off learning Objective-C, because there are orders of magnitude more examples, you'll be more likely to find employment (there's way more Objective-C code out there to maintain), and more people can help when you run into problems.
Ask again in five years, and the answer might be different, but for now, IMO, Objective-C is the clear choice unless you don't already know any C-based language, and probably even then.
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