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Scientists Seen As Competent But Not Trusted By Americans

cold fjord writes The Woodrow Wilson School reports, "If scientists want the public to trust their research suggestions, they may want to appear a bit 'warmer,' according to a new review published by Princeton University's Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs. The review, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), shows that while Americans view scientists as competent, they are not entirely trusted. This may be because they are not perceived to be friendly or warm. In particular, Americans seem wary of researchers seeking grant funding and do not trust scientists pushing persuasive agendas. Instead, the public leans toward impartiality. 'Scientists have earned the respect of Americans but not necessarily their trust,' said lead author Susan Fiske, the Eugene Higgins Professor of Psychology and professor of public affairs. 'But this gap can be filled by showing concern for humanity and the environment. Rather than persuading, scientists may better serve citizens by discussing, teaching and sharing information to convey trustworthy intentions.'"

30 of 460 comments (clear)

  1. Fox News? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fox news goes on and on to perpetuate the idea that scientists would rather be shamed and discredited by releasing junk science to receive grant money than be honored as brilliant to discover something profound. I swear those people are nitwits.

    1. Re:Fox News? by lorenlal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ^^This

      The fact that a good chunk of the population has been repeatedly fed that scientists are every bit as corrupt as the politicians (and ironically enough, the big money backers) that they'd compromise their standards for cash has done more damage than and lack of personability or "warmness."

    2. Re:Fox News? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think there's a bigger problem. The US is a nation of rebels. We almost all see ourselves rebelling against [insert personal selection of powerful entities in the country here]. And we tend to see the people rebelling against something substantially different as being aligned with [our evil of choice]. Christians rebelling against secular satanists, atheists rebelling against Christian hegemony. Racist fucks rebelling against the "PC police", minorities and allies rebelling against bigoted fuckwads.

      I'm not saying that every group has an accurate perception of the things they're rebelling against, nor am I saying that rebellion is entirely unwarranted. Just that "Not trusting" scientists occurs because they're "the system" to certain groups.

    3. Re:Fox News? by cranky_chemist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not just Fox. It's a problem with journalists in general.

      Journalists are taught to present "both sides" of a story. This approach, however, leads to journalists giving charlatans "equal time." Thus, the public wrongly assumes that scientists must be split 50/50 on important issues like climate change. The reality, of course, is that the split is far closer to 99/1 than to 50/50.

      The REAL underlying problem is that journalists don't know enough science to be able to spot a crackpot when they see/hear one.

    4. Re:Fox News? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, in all fairness, things like a certain stem cell paper recently published and retracted does a hell of a lot more to convince me of corruption in academia than anything Fox News has ever published.

    5. Re:Fox News? by Immerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >The REAL underlying problem is that journalists don't know enough science to be able to spot a crackpot when they see/hear one.

      Don't know, or don't *care*? The major media outlets in this country are all controlled by a very small group of very powerful people with definite agendas, who then send a message down the heirarchy about what kind of behavior is expected. Things like "fair and balanced" reporting of largely one-sided issues is almost certainly one of those things. People who don't trust science are far easier to manipulate after all, regardless of your agenda.

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      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    6. Re:Fox News? by bickerdyke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh and how they care! But they care for controversity. A panel discussion with all participants agreeing would sink the ratings.

      "Fair and balanced" is not a reminder that you have to hear multiple viewpoints, but an excuse to pit them up agains each other for maximum drama.

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      bickerdyke
    7. Re:Fox News? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, you're mistaking intelligence and expertise. I'm a very intelligent person(yeah yeah, everyone thinks this, especially on the internet), but I wouldn't even remotely confuse that for the expertise in any arbitrary field I only have a passing knowledge of that other people have developed for decades. I understand calculus based physics pretty well, and the premises of quantum mechanics pretty well for a layman, but I wouldn't pretend I have the expertise to design a supercollider experiment.

      I wouldn't trust myself to make an accurate medical diagnosis of anything. I wouldn't even think of representing myself in court(except maybe small claims).

      So when my Doctor says "Take these pills" I might have curiosity about what they do, learn what I can about them, but I'm not going to "You don't know more than me!" If my lawyer says "No, seriously, plead no contest, it's not worth it", I might ask what the risks are and why not "Not guilty", but I'm not going to pretend to have the familiarity with the court system, and judges, and juries, and the results of similar cases that he does.

      It's not a "need to be led", but the recognition of human limitations. You can only get so much from reading in your spare time. You can only manage to be a true expert in about 5-10 things in your lifetime, and that's if you spend literally all your time becoming an expert in those things.

    8. Re:Fox News? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You mean the corruption that was quickly discredited? That corruption? Working as designed. Try as they may, the climate scientists can't be discredited. Fox refuses to acknowledge that.

    9. Re:Fox News? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      False equivalence. Although equal airtime for all views is silly, Fox intentionally distorts facts and dialog to fit their agenda. WMD's in Iraq? A certainty, well after all the other news outlets have given up on that. Obama a Muslim? Obama not an American citizen (even though the fact that his mother is one made him one). How long did they go on and on about that? Obama a weak socialist tyrant? (How does that even work?) Their news is opinion and their opinion is whatever is the opposite of Obama. It's a crying fucking shame. We need a decent opposition party.

    10. Re:Fox News? by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is a lot of poor science reported on Fox news. And there is just as much reported on every other network and major media outlet. If you don't recognize that, you may be part of the problem.

    11. Re:Fox News? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If we were a nation of rebels we'd have lined our telecom exec's and board members against a wall and shot them, mulched them and prepared the wall for RIAA/MPAA/IP activists, and finally have led violent revolt against pretty much everyone in congress.

      Instead we bend over backwards to accomodate dysfunctional, greedy monopolies. Watch idly as 12yo's are prosecuted for "piracy" and vote the same clowns in again.

      We haven't been rebels in a real long time.

    12. Re:Fox News? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You misunderstand. We're not good rebels, who get things done(and I'm kinda thankful for that, many rebellions end up with pretty awful results). We're rebels in the sense that we see ourselves on the vanguard of seeing the bad people for what they are.

    13. Re:Fox News? by Vokkyt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The press is much to blame, never checking qualifications or accomplishments when reporting the work of so called 'scientists". Due to that, so much bullshit is promulgated that never comes to fruition, people naturally become skeptical. Promises of fuel cell being ready for mass adoption, promises of medical cures on the way, etc.

      It's even worse that that though -- it's not just that the media doesn't fact check, it's that most media members lack the ability to fact check, as do their audience. It's the game telephone on a national scale, and it's hurting everyone when a rather important but nascent study on polymers gets conflated to "scientists create new ultra-capacity battery purple monkey dishwasher".

      The report itself doesn't really focus so much on this disconnect though as much as it the social dynamics of credibility; according to the article, we're trained to focus more on "friend or foe" than "true or not true", and the first challenge in communicating serious scientific advances to people is getting past the friend or foe response. The article refers to Climate Change as an example of this, and it seems true that most people cannot enter into discussions of climate change without there being a political agenda attached.

      What this really comes down to is poor logical training -- it's not that people are outright illogical or that science and pure logic are the most ideal way to be (as they aren't), it's that we're just wired to have an emotional investment, and too often, the public gets hurt by this wiring. Rather than take a second to try and see if the content is or is not valid, or to separate the person speaking from the evidence presented, which admittedly can be difficult if you are very invested in a particular belief (political, religious, mystical, personal, and so on). I've always used the example of liking Burzum versus liking/approving of Varg Vikernes and his personal beliefs; you don't need to subscribe to the latter to accept the former.

      However, the article just suggests that we can't really get past that friend/foe check.

      I think this is really where celebrity scientists (Tyson, Nye, Sagan, Asimov, etc) can really help out everyone. I'm re-reading two of Asimov's books "A short history of [chemistry|biology]" and I think that there needs to be more of this. Asimov was an incredible writer and had a knack for telling a good story, and even better just explaining science simply. Sagan has some fairly poetic ways of describing the universe which spoke to people in an easy way, Bill Nye brought a good sense of entertainment to science and made it fun for kids. The more writing and early exposure people can get to this sort of material, the better people can begin to separate the human behind the science from the evidence presented.

      (Of course, this is not to say that scientists are without their own prejudices or agendas; reading the history of chemistry has shown how sometimes a leading scientists' personal agenda stymied progress just because they were perceived as an authority. Everyone, regardless of training, is subject to this bias)

    14. Re:Fox News? by crmarvin42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ^^This is, in my not so humble opinion, one of the main reasons science and scientists are viewed with such skepticism.

      How many newspapers and TV news programs gave Wakefield (and even worse, Jenny McCarthy) valuable opportunities to speak publically without challenge, even after it became clear that autism is not caused by vaccines? On the other hand, how many times have they, in the name of "Balance", allowed crackpots to act as foils to certified experts in an area?

      How about the cult-worship status of TV stars like Dr. Oz or Dr. Phil who are billed as trustworthy experts despite their lack of qualifications in the area they spend most of their time talking about. Dr. Oz. is not a toxicologist, but that doesn't stop him (or his producers) from putting out BS on the risks of new pesticides about which none of them appear to know anything accurate.

      The media needs to be held accountable for spreading bullshit for the sake of increased circulation/clicks. They aren't because of freedom of the press, and I am not opposed to freedoms of the press. As Spider-man would say "with great power comes great responsibility", but the press seems to be allowed to exercise enormous power without being held responsible for the harm they do.

      --
      Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
    15. Re:Fox News? by jd.schmidt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, your scenario is exactly where you need to start using your real intelligence. Take for instance the conservative claim that climate scientists are just spinning their doomsday scenarios to get those "fat" research checks or to advance some other agenda. This is where you brains are supposed to kick in when you realize that energy companies are willing and able to fund their research in a lavish style that government research simply can't and won't match. Further, your brains should be able to tell the difference between honest attempts at research vs. simple attempts to delay and undermine research. So yes, don't trust everything you are told, but use your analytical skills to understand motive and source reliability.

    16. Re:Fox News? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most c-sections happen on Friday. Why? They've got to get home for the weekend.

      It also gives the parents a whole weekend to recover before the man has to go back to work.

      What you need to reinforce your claim is a breakdown of c-sections planned for a Friday in advance, and those that get scheduled *that day* on a Friday.

      That said, I agree with the need to question your doctor. But your example sucks.

      --
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  2. SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by lesincompetent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I pity USA scientists. It must be hard to live and work in a country where the powers that be turned all facts into opinions.

    1. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by johanw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Whatever, anyone can predict that this will lead to so many false earthquake alarms that no one is going to take them serious anymore.

  3. Science is not about trust by dave314159259 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Science is about reproducible results. Publish the details of your experiment, so I can perform your experiment (and variations on it) myself. Your claim is strengthened if I get the same results you do.

    1. Re:Science is not about trust by Immerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >Science is not about trust

      Certainly it is - the very core of the scientific method is the peer review which winnows through the morass of contradictory results coming from different inevitably fallible scientists to find the ones that are reproducible - that can be trusted and built upon.

      The fact that it's not about trusting individuals, and in fact integrates distrusting them into the very core of it's principles, is what makes the results that survive the gauntlet so much more trustworthy than anything else in the human experience. The most trustworthy individual on the planet is still rife with self-deception and fallibility - science is the art of building knowledge about the universe that's far more trustworthy than the people who built it.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  4. Scientists don't *NEED* to be trusted! by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The entire goddamn point of science is that you prove the theory using experiment, publish a paper explaining what you did and how you did it, and then anybody else [who is competent] can go read the paper and reproduce similar results for themselves.

    The real issue here is the part I put in square brackets as an aside: "anybody [who is competent]." It's true that if you're not competent then you need to trust something. But what you need to trust is not the individual scientists themselves, but rather that competent people will, as a group, follow the process and weed out the disproven theories.

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  5. "Wall Street" uses 'bad science' to steal from us by teslabox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's very challenging for non-scientists to tell the difference between good science, obsolete science that is used to sell defective products, and charlatan science - 'lipstick on a pig'.

    If real scientists want respect, they need to call out Wall Street for all the ways it profits from the obesity epidemic.

  6. Re:Americans are smart. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd rather trust an elected government than corporate leaders I can do nothing about. Politicians are far from perfect, but they are one step up from capitalists, and unlike capitalists, the people have the power to kick them out every four or so years.

    You can refuse to do business with and therefore not give your money to a corporation.

    Try not paying your taxes and see what happens to you.

  7. Re:Americans are smart. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    True, but when it comes down to it, I'll trust a scientists' word about something scientific over a celebrity's word or a preacher's word.

    For example, Scientist A, a respected immunologist, says that vaccines prevent disease and are good. Celebrity M, a former Playboy model, says they're filled with icky stuff and should be banned. Too many Americans would listen to the celebrity over the scientist or give their views equal weight when there is no comparison: The scientist should win out.

    For another example, Scientist B, a geologist, says that the evidence points to the Earth being 4.54 billion years. Preacher Z claims that the Bible says it is only 10,000 years old. Again, too many Americans would either give them equal weight or would side with the preacher.

    Avoiding the authority fallacy is a good thing, but this doesn't mean that a person's knowledge of a field should be disregarded in all cases.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  8. Re:Americans are smart. by jythie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Stop paying your landlord, or utility companies and see what happens.

  9. Re:Americans are smart. by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you stop paying your landlord, you no longer get to use someone else's land and buildings. This comes as a shock to you?

    If you own the land instead, and stop paying your property taxes, the government will take your property away.

    Your argument for trusting politicians over landlords seems silly.

    --
    If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  10. Intelligent Leaders verses Intelligent Scientists by nucrash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    An intelligent leader does not need to be a scientist, however, an intelligent leader needs to be scientifically literate. I feel that the lack of scientific literacy and statistical literacy as a whole has created a great gap between understanding what is going on and trusting people who have the bests interests of the people at heart. However, some exceptions exist. I honestly feel Pope Francis has been one of the best leaders of the Catholic church in the last century. I don't know if he will exceed Pope John Paul II or not, but in a short time, he has undone a lot of damage that his predecessor did. I feel his scientific background has assisted in this.

    On top of that, we have an economy built on short term gains. This has created a lot of negative perceptions on things that need to be done. We can't push alternative energy because we will destroy the economy, but China and Germany have been doing just that and their economies are booming.

    Sadly, what we are being told by this study is that our researchers need a PR team. Everyone can imagine what that will do to the cost of research and development. On a positive note, we might now have justification for employing the people who spent all of that time getting marketing degrees.

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    Place something witty here
  11. Re:Bullshit by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe scientists would be friendlier......the "climategate" scandal has demonstrated very clearly that if a scientist dares try to engage the public to any meaningful extent, then they'd be inundated with either trolls, or assholes

    'Climategate' involved people being happy at the death of scientists they disagreed with. I don't think you understand the meaning of 'friendlier.'

    Climategate was basically a bunch of assholes being revealed as assholes.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  12. Close, but I think it's simpler and more normal by aussersterne · · Score: 3, Insightful

    than that.

    It's not that the public doesn't trust the abilities of scientists.

    It's that they don't trust their motives. We have a long literary tradition that meditates on scientists that "only cared about whether they could, not whether they should," and the politicization of sciences makes people wonder not whether scientists are incompetent, but whether they have "an agenda," i.e. whether scientists are basically lying through their teeth and/or pursuing their own political agendas in the interest of their own gain, rather than the public's.

    At that point, it's not that the public thinks "If I argue loudly enough, I can change nature," but rather "I don't understand what this scientist does, and I'm sure he/she is smart, but I don't believe they're telling me about nature; rather, they're using their smarts to pull the wool over my eyes about nature and profit/benefit somehow."

    So the public isn't trying to bend the laws of nature through discourse, but rather simply doesn't believe the people that are telling them about the laws of nature, because they suspect those people as not acting in good faith.

    That's where a kinder, warmer scientific community comes in. R1 academics with million-dollar grants may sneer at someone like Alan Alda on Scientific American Frontiers, but that sneering is counterproductive; the public won't understand (and doesn't want to) the rigorous, nuanced state of the research on most topics. It will have to be given to them in simplified form; Alan Alda and others in that space did so, and the scientific community needs to support (more of) that, rather than sneer at it.

    The sneering just reinforces the public notion that "this guy may be smarter than me, but he also thinks he's better and more deserving than me, so I can't trust that what he's telling me is really what he thinks/knows, rather than what he needs to tell me in order to get my stuff and/or come out on top in society, deserving or not."

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