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Scientists Seen As Competent But Not Trusted By Americans

cold fjord writes The Woodrow Wilson School reports, "If scientists want the public to trust their research suggestions, they may want to appear a bit 'warmer,' according to a new review published by Princeton University's Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs. The review, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), shows that while Americans view scientists as competent, they are not entirely trusted. This may be because they are not perceived to be friendly or warm. In particular, Americans seem wary of researchers seeking grant funding and do not trust scientists pushing persuasive agendas. Instead, the public leans toward impartiality. 'Scientists have earned the respect of Americans but not necessarily their trust,' said lead author Susan Fiske, the Eugene Higgins Professor of Psychology and professor of public affairs. 'But this gap can be filled by showing concern for humanity and the environment. Rather than persuading, scientists may better serve citizens by discussing, teaching and sharing information to convey trustworthy intentions.'"

27 of 460 comments (clear)

  1. Fox News? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fox news goes on and on to perpetuate the idea that scientists would rather be shamed and discredited by releasing junk science to receive grant money than be honored as brilliant to discover something profound. I swear those people are nitwits.

    1. Re:Fox News? by lorenlal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ^^This

      The fact that a good chunk of the population has been repeatedly fed that scientists are every bit as corrupt as the politicians (and ironically enough, the big money backers) that they'd compromise their standards for cash has done more damage than and lack of personability or "warmness."

    2. Re:Fox News? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think there's a bigger problem. The US is a nation of rebels. We almost all see ourselves rebelling against [insert personal selection of powerful entities in the country here]. And we tend to see the people rebelling against something substantially different as being aligned with [our evil of choice]. Christians rebelling against secular satanists, atheists rebelling against Christian hegemony. Racist fucks rebelling against the "PC police", minorities and allies rebelling against bigoted fuckwads.

      I'm not saying that every group has an accurate perception of the things they're rebelling against, nor am I saying that rebellion is entirely unwarranted. Just that "Not trusting" scientists occurs because they're "the system" to certain groups.

    3. Re:Fox News? by cranky_chemist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not just Fox. It's a problem with journalists in general.

      Journalists are taught to present "both sides" of a story. This approach, however, leads to journalists giving charlatans "equal time." Thus, the public wrongly assumes that scientists must be split 50/50 on important issues like climate change. The reality, of course, is that the split is far closer to 99/1 than to 50/50.

      The REAL underlying problem is that journalists don't know enough science to be able to spot a crackpot when they see/hear one.

    4. Re:Fox News? by Immerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >The REAL underlying problem is that journalists don't know enough science to be able to spot a crackpot when they see/hear one.

      Don't know, or don't *care*? The major media outlets in this country are all controlled by a very small group of very powerful people with definite agendas, who then send a message down the heirarchy about what kind of behavior is expected. Things like "fair and balanced" reporting of largely one-sided issues is almost certainly one of those things. People who don't trust science are far easier to manipulate after all, regardless of your agenda.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    5. Re:Fox News? by bickerdyke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh and how they care! But they care for controversity. A panel discussion with all participants agreeing would sink the ratings.

      "Fair and balanced" is not a reminder that you have to hear multiple viewpoints, but an excuse to pit them up agains each other for maximum drama.

      --
      bickerdyke
    6. Re:Fox News? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, you're mistaking intelligence and expertise. I'm a very intelligent person(yeah yeah, everyone thinks this, especially on the internet), but I wouldn't even remotely confuse that for the expertise in any arbitrary field I only have a passing knowledge of that other people have developed for decades. I understand calculus based physics pretty well, and the premises of quantum mechanics pretty well for a layman, but I wouldn't pretend I have the expertise to design a supercollider experiment.

      I wouldn't trust myself to make an accurate medical diagnosis of anything. I wouldn't even think of representing myself in court(except maybe small claims).

      So when my Doctor says "Take these pills" I might have curiosity about what they do, learn what I can about them, but I'm not going to "You don't know more than me!" If my lawyer says "No, seriously, plead no contest, it's not worth it", I might ask what the risks are and why not "Not guilty", but I'm not going to pretend to have the familiarity with the court system, and judges, and juries, and the results of similar cases that he does.

      It's not a "need to be led", but the recognition of human limitations. You can only get so much from reading in your spare time. You can only manage to be a true expert in about 5-10 things in your lifetime, and that's if you spend literally all your time becoming an expert in those things.

    7. Re:Fox News? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You mean the corruption that was quickly discredited? That corruption? Working as designed. Try as they may, the climate scientists can't be discredited. Fox refuses to acknowledge that.

    8. Re:Fox News? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      False equivalence. Although equal airtime for all views is silly, Fox intentionally distorts facts and dialog to fit their agenda. WMD's in Iraq? A certainty, well after all the other news outlets have given up on that. Obama a Muslim? Obama not an American citizen (even though the fact that his mother is one made him one). How long did they go on and on about that? Obama a weak socialist tyrant? (How does that even work?) Their news is opinion and their opinion is whatever is the opposite of Obama. It's a crying fucking shame. We need a decent opposition party.

    9. Re:Fox News? by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The biggest problem is that anyone can call themselves a scientist. There really is not definition of what it takes to be qualified as a scientist. One who practices science regardless of comptence?

      The press is much to blame, never checking qualifications or accomplishments when reporting the work of so called 'scientists". Due to that, so much bullshit is promulgated that never comes to fruition, people naturally become skeptical. Promises of fuel cell being ready for mass adoption, promises of medical cures on the way, etc.

      The media should also distinguish between engineers and scientists, but the fact they never do is a great indicator that they don't have a clue. That falls back on the technology and science reporters themselves often being quite unqualified.

    10. Re:Fox News? by Rob+Y. · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Most of the bogus scientific breakthroughs are "amazing medical advances" and "promising cancer treatments" that have no business being in the popular media at all - given their untested status at the time they're released. This is largely a media problem (isn't everything these days), driven by an over-competitive media landscape in which consumers' attention is all that matters. But it's also a trap scientists themselves can fall into. There often are large financial involvements at stake, and the media are all too easily manipulated. None of which is to say that the scientific method and peer review don't win out in the end. Science pursues all kinds of dead ends - we're just not supposed to hear about them. And that's not any kind of cover-up; it's how the process works - and it does work.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    11. Re:Fox News? by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think that critical thinking skills are something that scientists cannot trust American citizens to have. We are lead to believe that someone would have around 16 years of higher education, and take a job that pays at least a third of what they could make with the math and technical skills if they became stock brokers or media pundits -- and they do all this so they can lie about a passion for seeking truth and knowledge. It shows a complete lack of empathy or understanding of human nature.

      If I'm wanting to rip people off, I'll open a pay-day loan or a bank and charge bounce fees to poor people -- I don't need to waste time with difficult science to fudge a climate report in the desperate hope of getting a meager research grant.

      The Crooks that own the media and hire think tanks to make every controversy like dealing with the Tobacco industry -- they are to blame. They are a cancer on society. We have to do something about these idle, useless rich people gaming the system to ruin it for everyone else. What, are they not able to afford a prostitute and enough steak to eat? These entitled parasites need to be shut down. We face a few existential crisis right now but we can't deal with Climate Change or the end of cheap labor (replaced by robots) because money owns politics and the media.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    12. Re:Fox News? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If we were a nation of rebels we'd have lined our telecom exec's and board members against a wall and shot them, mulched them and prepared the wall for RIAA/MPAA/IP activists, and finally have led violent revolt against pretty much everyone in congress.

      Instead we bend over backwards to accomodate dysfunctional, greedy monopolies. Watch idly as 12yo's are prosecuted for "piracy" and vote the same clowns in again.

      We haven't been rebels in a real long time.

    13. Re:Fox News? by Vokkyt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The press is much to blame, never checking qualifications or accomplishments when reporting the work of so called 'scientists". Due to that, so much bullshit is promulgated that never comes to fruition, people naturally become skeptical. Promises of fuel cell being ready for mass adoption, promises of medical cures on the way, etc.

      It's even worse that that though -- it's not just that the media doesn't fact check, it's that most media members lack the ability to fact check, as do their audience. It's the game telephone on a national scale, and it's hurting everyone when a rather important but nascent study on polymers gets conflated to "scientists create new ultra-capacity battery purple monkey dishwasher".

      The report itself doesn't really focus so much on this disconnect though as much as it the social dynamics of credibility; according to the article, we're trained to focus more on "friend or foe" than "true or not true", and the first challenge in communicating serious scientific advances to people is getting past the friend or foe response. The article refers to Climate Change as an example of this, and it seems true that most people cannot enter into discussions of climate change without there being a political agenda attached.

      What this really comes down to is poor logical training -- it's not that people are outright illogical or that science and pure logic are the most ideal way to be (as they aren't), it's that we're just wired to have an emotional investment, and too often, the public gets hurt by this wiring. Rather than take a second to try and see if the content is or is not valid, or to separate the person speaking from the evidence presented, which admittedly can be difficult if you are very invested in a particular belief (political, religious, mystical, personal, and so on). I've always used the example of liking Burzum versus liking/approving of Varg Vikernes and his personal beliefs; you don't need to subscribe to the latter to accept the former.

      However, the article just suggests that we can't really get past that friend/foe check.

      I think this is really where celebrity scientists (Tyson, Nye, Sagan, Asimov, etc) can really help out everyone. I'm re-reading two of Asimov's books "A short history of [chemistry|biology]" and I think that there needs to be more of this. Asimov was an incredible writer and had a knack for telling a good story, and even better just explaining science simply. Sagan has some fairly poetic ways of describing the universe which spoke to people in an easy way, Bill Nye brought a good sense of entertainment to science and made it fun for kids. The more writing and early exposure people can get to this sort of material, the better people can begin to separate the human behind the science from the evidence presented.

      (Of course, this is not to say that scientists are without their own prejudices or agendas; reading the history of chemistry has shown how sometimes a leading scientists' personal agenda stymied progress just because they were perceived as an authority. Everyone, regardless of training, is subject to this bias)

    14. Re:Fox News? by TheNastyInThePasty · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, YOU must have missed the whole Climategate thing.

      Eight committees investigated the allegations and published reports, finding no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

      --
      The best thing about UDP jokes is I don't care if you get them or not
    15. Re:Fox News? by jd.schmidt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, your scenario is exactly where you need to start using your real intelligence. Take for instance the conservative claim that climate scientists are just spinning their doomsday scenarios to get those "fat" research checks or to advance some other agenda. This is where you brains are supposed to kick in when you realize that energy companies are willing and able to fund their research in a lavish style that government research simply can't and won't match. Further, your brains should be able to tell the difference between honest attempts at research vs. simple attempts to delay and undermine research. So yes, don't trust everything you are told, but use your analytical skills to understand motive and source reliability.

  2. SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by lesincompetent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I pity USA scientists. It must be hard to live and work in a country where the powers that be turned all facts into opinions.

    1. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Eh. I don't entirely disagree, but...

      It could be Italy, where failing to predict an earthquake lands you in jail.
      Or it could be China, where grants don't actually cover the costs of your experiments, and many scientists publish faked results on some work to pay for the science they want to do.
      Or it could be Iran, where being a scientists in the wrong field nets you a free gift box of bullets delivered straight to your cranium, courtesy of the CIA(okay that's the US's fault too).
      Let's not forget that only few decades ago, in the Soviet Union, several entire schools of academics(like sociology) were considered outright verboten to study, on the grounds that they weren't Marxist.

      And the US still has the single biggest science economy in the world, even if that's massively and disproportionately military in nature.

      The problems are voters have with understanding and appreciating science definitely hold us back, but it could be a lot worse.

    2. Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid by SirGeek · · Score: 4, Informative

      I pity USA scientists. It must be hard to live and work in a country where the powers that be turned all facts into opinions.

      Or worse. Where their "faith" trumps your Facts, Data and empirical evidence.

  3. Science is not about trust by dave314159259 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Science is about reproducible results. Publish the details of your experiment, so I can perform your experiment (and variations on it) myself. Your claim is strengthened if I get the same results you do.

    1. Re:Science is not about trust by Immerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >Science is not about trust

      Certainly it is - the very core of the scientific method is the peer review which winnows through the morass of contradictory results coming from different inevitably fallible scientists to find the ones that are reproducible - that can be trusted and built upon.

      The fact that it's not about trusting individuals, and in fact integrates distrusting them into the very core of it's principles, is what makes the results that survive the gauntlet so much more trustworthy than anything else in the human experience. The most trustworthy individual on the planet is still rife with self-deception and fallibility - science is the art of building knowledge about the universe that's far more trustworthy than the people who built it.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  4. Scientists don't *NEED* to be trusted! by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The entire goddamn point of science is that you prove the theory using experiment, publish a paper explaining what you did and how you did it, and then anybody else [who is competent] can go read the paper and reproduce similar results for themselves.

    The real issue here is the part I put in square brackets as an aside: "anybody [who is competent]." It's true that if you're not competent then you need to trust something. But what you need to trust is not the individual scientists themselves, but rather that competent people will, as a group, follow the process and weed out the disproven theories.

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  5. Bullshit by ilsaloving · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe scientists would be friendlier if the 'average American' wasn't a proctologic habersashery.

    It is not a scientists job to teach people science. Their job is to do science. Furthermore, the "climategate" scandal has demonstrated very clearly that if a scientist dares try to engage the public to any meaningful extent, then they'd be inundated with either trolls, or assholes who insist on pushing their own personal politics.

    And then, of course, scientists will get raked over the coals because they are not allowed to be a human being, who gets frustrated and bitchy when being forced to deal with such crap.

    The problem is that there is no one clear problem. The media don't know jack about science, but insist on reporting it. North American culture in general has become profoundly anti-intellectual. There are other issues as well, but those are the most directly relevant.

    What we need are more *spokespersons* for science. More Neil deGrasse Tysons. People who BOTH understand the science AND have the skill to teach it to laypeople. Hell, IMO general media should be banned outright from discussing scientific topics, since they don't seem to be able to do anything BUT screw it up.

  6. Re:Americans are smart. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    True, but when it comes down to it, I'll trust a scientists' word about something scientific over a celebrity's word or a preacher's word.

    For example, Scientist A, a respected immunologist, says that vaccines prevent disease and are good. Celebrity M, a former Playboy model, says they're filled with icky stuff and should be banned. Too many Americans would listen to the celebrity over the scientist or give their views equal weight when there is no comparison: The scientist should win out.

    For another example, Scientist B, a geologist, says that the evidence points to the Earth being 4.54 billion years. Preacher Z claims that the Bible says it is only 10,000 years old. Again, too many Americans would either give them equal weight or would side with the preacher.

    Avoiding the authority fallacy is a good thing, but this doesn't mean that a person's knowledge of a field should be disregarded in all cases.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  7. as an american perhaps i can clarify. by nimbius · · Score: 5, Funny

    Trust is a pretty big thing here in America. Gravity? sure, i get it, i use that every day (unless its not still free. i do have a budget you know.) But sir isaac newton? seriously shady guy. how can i trust someone that looks that much like Weird Al Yankovik but never once dropped a mix tape...you have to approach the guy kinda carefully. dispersive prisms are sweet, but did you know that Pink Floyds dark side of the moon album uses them too? Isaac newton probably invented them so he could have a mix tape, but through the magic of Pink Floyd (prisms help roger waters rock harder) +1 to Isaac for helping out (maybe he can be trusted now. maybe.)

    and climate change? sure, i get that and its been explained and it helped al gore invent the internet and now flights to florida are a lot cheaper than before. But 300 scientists around the world? hold on. can they be trusted? i mean what if they dont wash their hands after going to the bathroom? You cant trust people who dont use their turn signals either, so those guys are right out. What if climate change was secretly used in 9/11? do those scientists support the troops? EXACTLY. these are important questions about science that keep us up at night. Also if I disagree with it, then that makes it a THEORY and not a science fact, which means it can only be used in movies until they make it come true.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  8. Re: Rebels by asylumx · · Score: 5, Funny

    Reasonable grammar is for conformist sheep!

  9. Intelligent Leaders verses Intelligent Scientists by nucrash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    An intelligent leader does not need to be a scientist, however, an intelligent leader needs to be scientifically literate. I feel that the lack of scientific literacy and statistical literacy as a whole has created a great gap between understanding what is going on and trusting people who have the bests interests of the people at heart. However, some exceptions exist. I honestly feel Pope Francis has been one of the best leaders of the Catholic church in the last century. I don't know if he will exceed Pope John Paul II or not, but in a short time, he has undone a lot of damage that his predecessor did. I feel his scientific background has assisted in this.

    On top of that, we have an economy built on short term gains. This has created a lot of negative perceptions on things that need to be done. We can't push alternative energy because we will destroy the economy, but China and Germany have been doing just that and their economies are booming.

    Sadly, what we are being told by this study is that our researchers need a PR team. Everyone can imagine what that will do to the cost of research and development. On a positive note, we might now have justification for employing the people who spent all of that time getting marketing degrees.

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    Place something witty here