Slashdot Mirror


Supercomputing Upgrade Produces High-Resolution Storm Forecasts

dcblogs writes A supercomputer upgrade is paying off for the U.S. National Weather Service, with new high-resolution models that will offer better insight into severe weather. This improvement in modeling detail is a result of a supercomputer upgrade. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, which runs the weather service, put into production two new IBM supercomputers, each 213 teraflops, running Linux on Intel processors. These systems replaced 74-teraflop, four-year old systems. More computing power means systems can run more mathematics, and increase the resolution or detail on the maps from 8 miles to 2 miles.

13 of 77 comments (clear)

  1. Woo! by pushing-robot · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now they can be wrong in hi-def!

    --
    How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
  2. Have the solutions converged? by RichMan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was at a supercomputing conference back in the 90's. There were wonderful reports on doubling the resolution of the grid and so on. Advances in the scale are all good.

    The questions are
    a) with the increase in detail of the simulations have we converged on a solution. That is do solutions at scale N and 10N match. If they do then the resolution and model are aligned for accuracy in the solution.
    b) do the simulations agree with reality.

    If a) and not b) then there is something wrong with the model that is not related to compute power or problem resolution, and no amount of compute power will fix it.

    1. Re:Have the solutions converged? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      a) we don't care if the models match
          1) the most impotant thing, the one true thing, is that the model remain stable
          2) if the model remains stable, then it's judged against reality, not other models. However,
          3) Don't break the stability of the model

      b) this is a global differential equation. We don't know the initial conditions, and the model can only approximate them. However, the finer the mesh, the closer we can get to the initial conditions, so the further out in time the model will remain useful.

    2. Re:Have the solutions converged? by pushing-robot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      TFA ironically begins with the quote '"I don’t think we will ever have enough [computing power] to satisfy us,” says researcher.'

      The summary is vague, and the article not much better, and neither say anything about whether the 'new model' is matching observations any better than the old.

      It would be nice if they could at least clarify if the sole pair of comparison images are even the same forecast, because the new model shows not only more detail but a completely different prediction.

      Come on kids, this isn't a network news sound bite. This is the Internet, and you're a tech news site. Would it kill you to go past the press release?

      Maybe I'm just bitter about this because I live in mountains where a coin is a more accurate forecasting tool than the weather service.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    3. Re:Have the solutions converged? by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well the possibility is that at some level the weather will exhibit chaotic behavior and no matter how big your model gets it won't matter - the coin flip will be just as good.

    4. Re:Have the solutions converged? by EETech1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      TFL in TFA goes over it.

      www.computerworld.com/article/2484337/computer-hardware/noaa-goes--live--with-new-weather-supercomputers.html

      It's been a complicated process to get to this point. The NWS has had to ensure that the software running on the new system is producing scientifically correct results. It had been running the old and new systems in parallel for months, and comparing the output.

      This comparative testing involved examining output data to determine whether it is numerically reproducible out to five decimal places. There is also a statistical analysis of weather predictions on the new system against the actual weather conditions.

      The process wasn't just an examination of numerical data. NWS scientists also studied the weather products and examined them for subtle differences. "There is a lot of human, highly experienced, subjective evaluation," said Kyger.

      There are computational differences involved in switching to new chips and a new operating system. They are subtle, and appear in decimal places six through 12.

      As you go further out in a forecast, the differences compound. The changes may appear in the fifth day of an extended, five-day forecast as a difference of one degree.

    5. Re:Have the solutions converged? by StevisF · · Score: 2

      Not surprisingly the scientists that work on weather models care very much about their accuracy. The GFS model's peformance is constantly reviewed: http://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/G...

    6. Re:Have the solutions converged? by amck · · Score: 3, Informative

      These simulations are forecasts. They check every forecast against observations, and have very good metrics on how good their forecasts are, and how much skill changes.
      See for example how the European ECMWF does its forecasts:
      http://www.ecmwf.int/en/foreca...

      Every change to the operational model(s) can be and is checked out first against " will it improve the forecast". Similarly improvements in computing power: we simply run yesterdays forecast at higher resolution for example; we can then say "this new model is n% better, but takes 10x as long to calculate", and use that to decide whether its worth buying a faster computer.

      On the climate timescale we have a challenge verifying the simulations, but on the weather timescale its straightforward, and done.

      --
      Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist
  3. And as the resolution increases ... by Thorfinn.au · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Better resolution is good, but with each improvement in the system, the input data also needs to be improved and remeasured.
    Ultimately the ground features need to be modelled in greater detail to match the increased resolution of the grid.
    Which comes own to knowing where each tree/building and similar sized static feature is and how this affects the model.
    However, as the grid increases it should not need to know where the butterflies are .

  4. WRF has gotten pretty good, actually by erikscott · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm a computer engineer, not a meteorologist, but I've worked with them off and on for about eight years now. One of the most common models for research use is "Weather Research and Forecasting Model" (WRF, pronounced like the dude from ST:TNG). There are several versions in use, so caveats are in order, but in general WRF can produce really good results at a 1.6KM grid for 48 hours in the future. I was given the impression that coarser grids are the route to happiness for longer period forecasts.

    WRF will accept about as much or as little of an initializer as you want to give it. Between NEXRAD radar observations, ground met stations all over the place, two hundred or so balloon launches per day, satellite water vapor estimates, and a cooperative agreement with airlines to download in-flight met conditions (after landing, natch), there's gobs of data available.

    The National Weather Service wants to run new models side-by-side with older models and then back check the daylights out of them, so we can expect the regular forecast products to improve dramatically over the next (very) few years.

  5. Re:this article is a year old by holmstar · · Score: 2

    The July 2013 article discusses an old model that used a 27 kilometer resolution new model that used a 13 kilometer resolution. The new article discusses moving from that to a 2 mile (3.21 kilometer) resolution.

  6. WRF has gotten pretty good, actually by AlejoHausner · · Score: 2
    I worked in meteorology in the 1980s for several years, and one thing I learned was that data is in short supply. I learned that the ultimate truth comes from sending up radiosonde balloons with humidity, wind and pressure sensors. The goal is not just to get data from the ground (there's lots of that kind of data, I'm sure). You have to sample the whole atmosphere to set up the numerical models. You say that about two hundred balloons are sent up every day, and assuming this is done every 6 hours in the continental USA, a back of the envelope calculation says the sample points are about 400 km apart. So the best data for seeding the calculations has very low spatial resolution, much lower than the 2-mile resolution used in the numerical model.

    Of course, you can get estimates for water vapour from IR satellite measurements. I saw this done also in the 1980s. At the time I didn't understand all the math used to do this, but remember that it involved taking IR emissions over several wavelength bands, and somehow combining these to infer the water vapour content at various heights in the atmosphere, under each pixel. These satellites certainly have 2-mile spatial resolution, but the problem I see there is that the polar-orbiting satellites that provide this information pass over any spot on earth about 4 times per day, so the temporal resolution is as low as the balloons'.

    Finally, data from airlines is going to be largely restricted to heights at cruising altitude, so you're missing a large cross section of the atmosphere there.

    And don't get me started on weather observations over the ocean, where there are very few ground stations or balloons.

    The issue is that the Navier- Stokes equations being solved in weather forecasting are very sensitive to initial conditions, so it's really crucial to get the data right to set up the calculations. Sitting in my armchair, I remain a bit skeptical that we will ever be able to get the true initial conditions.

    Despite all this I'm always impressed that the NWS manages to get pretty decent one-week forecasts out, despite the impossible task they face. There must be some deep voodoo in those numerical models!

  7. Not the whole story - maybe leaked as a CMA action by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    This was an interesting article. However as UW's Cliff Mass has previously pointed out (And, today, he privately confirmed is still the case), NOAA is sitting on already-approved funds to purchase a weather modeling computer that's seen as a potential "game changer" for US climate modeling.

    Over a year ago Congress approved the purchase of a computer that's roughly an order of magnitude more powerful than the pair mentioned in this article - but, because NOAA has a contract with IBM and IBM recently sold their server business to Lenovo, NOAA has been sitting on their hands regarding approval of the purchase of such a computer from a Chinese company.

    So while the improvements mentioned in the article are better than nothing... in truth we should be a significant step beyond that by now.

    --
    #DeleteChrome