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Flight Attendants Want Stricter Gadget Rules Reinstated

Posted by timothy on from the killjoys-in-uniform dept.

stephendavion writes You might be super happy to toil away on your phone or tablet the entire time you're on a plane, but not everyone is pleased to see your face buried in your device during takeoff and landing. The Federal Aviation Administration's new, more relaxed rules on gadget use aren't sitting well with one group — flight attendants. According to a report from The Wall Street Journal, the nation's largest flight attendant union is now suing the FAA to have the ban on gadget use during takeoff and landing reinstated. The Association of Flight Attendants-CWA argues that the change has caused many passengers to ignore flight attendants' emergency announcements, and that the new rules violate federal regulations requiring passengers to stow all items during takeoff and landing.

32 of 406 comments (clear)

  1. That's not the reason you're being ignored. by sbaker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People don't listen to that preflight announcement stuff because they've heard it a hundred times before. People who've flown even a couple of times before don't need to listen. People who are on their first flight, where it's all new and exciting are paying attention.

    So, no - I know how to wear a seatbelt and that my seat cushion can be used as a floatation device and to check where the nearest exit row is...yadda yadda yadda. I can stick my nose into my phone and I won't miss anything important.

    What's needed is either to make those instructions INTERESTING (like the Southwest Airlines people often do) - or to only give the routine instructions to people who need it. That way, when something truly important comes up, people will pay attention.

    --
    www.sjbaker.org
    1. Re:That's not the reason you're being ignored. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      OMG

      you forgot the oxygen mask?!

      what if you didn't remember that even though the bag may not inflate oxygen will still be flowing, and what if you ignorantly helped someone else with their mask before wearing yours!

      wreckless just wreckless you'll kill us all my friend

    2. Re:That's not the reason you're being ignored. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They are trying to defend their mostly useless jobs. When flights had things like meals and movies, there was a real need for some one to serve. Now they are trying to hold on to their role, should an emergency occur, in controlling the crowd and directing actions. I'm astonished that they even have waitresses on short flights at all. If it is less then 6 hours, your probably better served with having ground crew help every one get seated and deplane.

    3. Re:That's not the reason you're being ignored. by hawguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They don't want people looking at their devices with their headphones in when the captain says "brace for impact" a moment before you're supposed to land normally. It's not that hard to just be ready for an important announcement before takeoff and landing. And they're right that you want everything stowed away for those two phases of the flight.

      I'll take my chances that even if I did brace for impact it wouldn't make a significant difference in my survival or chance of injury. And whether I'm looking at my kindle, staring out the window, even staring right at the flight attendant in the jump seat, I don't think it's going to affect my reaction time at all. Even with headphones on I can hear cabin announcements (I sure wish I couldn't, so I could sleep while the captain points out that we're crossing over the Rocky Mountains).

      I don't remember ever being asked to stow a book, and my kindle is smaller and lighter than most hardcover books (even many paperbacks). Besides, I've seen the overhead compartments come unlatched during severe turbulence, so in the event of a real crash, a loose kindle is the least of anyone's worries.

    4. Re:That's not the reason you're being ignored. by Wycliffe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And they're right that you want everything stowed away for those two phases of the flight.

      So talk to their boss. If an airline wants to allow/disallow certain things or require everything to be stowed, then
      let the airline decide to do this. If the airline wants to sell flights where noone is allowed luggage, or where there
      are no seats and it is standing room only, then let the airlines do this. The FAA should only be concerned with
      the safety of the airplane and the safety of the pilot so that the airline can safely take off and land without hurting
      anyone outside the airplane. If luggage isn't stored properly and falls on someone, that's the airline's problem.
      It's no different than if someone slips and falls on ice at walmart, let the airlines decide what is needed to prevent
      unnecessary lawsuits.

    5. Re:That's not the reason you're being ignored. by arielCo · · Score: 5, Funny

      wreckless just wreckless you'll kill us all my friend

      Wreckless is how I like my flights! (you insensitive clod!)

      --
      This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
    6. Re: That's not the reason you're being ignored. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is wrong on so many levels. The only reason why flight attendants still exist is strictly for safety. They are there to protect the passengers in the event of any sort of problem be that mechanical or some drunk idiot. You rarely hear that as fortunately there are rarely problems that require the to do their "real" job. Remember the miracle on the Hudson? It was the flight attendants who made sure everyone was safe and made sure they evacuated in an orderly fashion. They were the last ones off the plane. THAT is why they are there and I for one am glad to see them.

    7. Re:That's not the reason you're being ignored. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is a classic example of "mission creep". The decision to ban electronic devices originally had nothing to do with making people pay attention to flight attendants. Yet that is now being used as an excuse to keep the ban. The only reason for the ban was RF interference. That is no longer a problem with modern devices, so the ban should end.

    8. Re:That's not the reason you're being ignored. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      On one flight I was asked by a sky waitress to take off and stow my hat. My cloth hat.

      Why? "Because in case of an accident it could come off my head and fly through the cabin like a missile." She said said that with a completely straight face while people around me were on their phones or reading hardcover books and one lady in the aisle across from me had her knitting needles out the entire flight take-off to landing.

    9. Re:That's not the reason you're being ignored. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, thank you for clarifying that you need to be entertained during your briefing of safety procedures that exist to save your life.

      I've flown a depressing amount over the last couple of years. United actually does have pretty entertaining security briefing (although they're less funny the fifth time you've seen them in a week), but they insist on showing you a couple of minutes of adverts after telling you to pay attention for the important security briefing, but before showing the security briefing. If you want people to pay attention, then ban airlines from showing ads before the briefing, because after being advertised to for a couple of minutes, you can bet that I've unplugged my noise-cancelling headphones from the jack and am reading a book until they put the screen back under my control again...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:That's not the reason you're being ignored. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I haven't flown since 2001. Won't fly again until they stop irradiating my nuts or groping them.

    11. Re:That's not the reason you're being ignored. by OakDragon · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Get ON the plane? Fuck you, I'm getting IN the plane!"

      --
      Dark Reflection
    12. Re:That's not the reason you're being ignored. by beelsebob · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'll take my chances that even if I did brace for impact it wouldn't make a significant difference in my survival or chance of injury.

      Actually, the brace position does have a huge effect on your survival of a crash landing. It stops your head accelerating rapidly forward, and then backward relative to your body. That illiminates a whole huge class of possible brain injuries.

    13. Re:That's not the reason you're being ignored. by beelsebob · · Score: 5, Interesting

      and it takes me all of two seconds to remember where the exits are

      Actually, this is the one important bit of the safety briefing. It's been shown multiple times that in an emergency situation we're surprisingly shit at figuring out where we should be going. Not only that, but one person trying to fight the flow and go to the wrong exit can fuck over many many other people. Just prompting people to look around and register in their brain "it's 3 rows behind me" is useful.

    14. Re: That's not the reason you're being ignored. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You mean the Miracle on the Hudson where exactly 0% of the people took their seat cushion which can be used as a flotation device? Well done, flight attendants. Well done.

    15. Re:That's not the reason you're being ignored. by green1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I have always wondered whether or not it's a lie that if the oxygen bag doesn't inflate that it's still working. It sounds like a load of BS meant to prevent you from freaking out, and fighting with the person next to you who has obviously got a working mask.

      Actually it's quite possible. As an EMT, when we give patients oxygen with a mask with a similar bad attached, the bag doesn't always inflate on it's own. Basically the bag inflates if the delivery of oxygen exceeds the amount you're consuming, and deflates if you use more than it's providing. It works as a way of providing a constant flow through fluctuations in demand and/or supply. If the mask isn't sealed well to your face, or if you're hyperventilating because the airplane is crashing and you're not in favour of this particular outcome to your flight, the bag will likely stay deflated, even though you're still getting oxygen through the mask.
      When we're giving a mask to a patient, we actually block the oxygen flow for a few seconds before giving it to them to force the bag to inflate, and if they're managing to suck the bag flat we'll turn up the supply until it stays inflated, however our goal is to increase oxygen for someone with breathing difficulties, the airline's goal is simply to provide adequate oxygen to simulate the normal amount you'd have if you weren't in an unpressurized plane at 36,000ft.

    16. Re: That's not the reason you're being ignored. by Bob9113 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Remember the miracle on the Hudson? It was the flight attendants who made sure everyone was safe and made sure they evacuated in an orderly fashion. They were the last ones off the plane. THAT is why they are there and I for one am glad to see them.

      Does the math work? How many lives per year would flight attendants have to save to justify the price?

      There's just short of 10m flights per year in the US, and a US life is worth about $7m for prime-aged workers. If a flight costs an average of 10 flight attendant hours (I'm guessing that's low), that means we spend 100m flight attendant hours per year.

      Starting pay for flight attendants is $16/hr. So that's 1.6 billion dollars per year, plus overhead, that we pay for flight attendants.

      If safety is 50% of their job, and overhead is 50% of base pay, that means we're spending $1.2b per year on flight attendants for safety purposes.

      At $7m per life, that means they have to provide safety benefits equal to saving 170 lives per year. In the US, we currently lose about 15.3 lives per year to air travel fatalities.

      Just ballpark figures, but it feels like we're overpaying.

      --
      Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
  2. Do it like a virgin by MorbidBBQ · · Score: 4, Informative

    Virgin Airlines has a video instead of flight attendants do the safety spiel.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtyfiPIHsIg

    Time for other airlines to get with the times.

    1. Re:Do it like a virgin by jandrese · · Score: 3, Informative

      United has a cheesy video too, where the presenter is in a bumpy taxi talking about seatbelts and on a beach talking about stowing tray tables and putting your seats in their full upright and locked position for takeoff. It's only on planes that have video screens though, on smaller and older planes you get the traditional spiel.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
  3. I understand, but don't sympathize... by nblender · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Typical of Air Canada, if you're not listening, they become surly... So they want you to listen. But you have to listen twice, both in english and in french... God help you if you should tune out while they're going through the whole spiel in a language you don't understand...

    Westjet has a video for the french half and could seemingly care less if you're paying attention. The english half is occasionally made interesting with the injection of humor...

  4. Re:They worry too much by qbast · · Score: 5, Funny

    I am sure there will be at least one idiot who instead of running will try to post cool picture of flaming aircraft to facebook.

  5. What about books? by Len · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why were books, magazines and newspapers never banned before? They're just as much of a distraction (at least, they used to be until smartphones took over). Heck, they give away magazines in every seat pocket.

  6. I thought they loved it! by XanC · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I flew recently, and the crew was saying how much they loved not having to fight everybody to turn off their devices.

    Southwest might be a bit friendlier than most others, though.

  7. Re:They worry too much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "In case of fire, exit plane BEFORE tweeting about it."

  8. Simple solution: bring cookies. by FreonTrip · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seriously - bring a package of cookies for the flight crew. The flight attendants will leave you alone except to check on you, and will probably sneak you a non-alcoholic treat at some point during the flight. And it's not a job that's appreciated terribly much - look at the comments in this thread, just for starters - so it goes a long way.

    1. Re:Simple solution: bring cookies. by ledow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sorry, I don't bribe in order to receive good service from people whom I'm paying money for that service in that first place. Provide of don't. That your job is bad isn't my problem. I won't make it any worse, so long as you do it. But I'm not going to bribe service from you.

      And it's "under-appreciated" for a reason. They serve drinks. And do a little safety panto. Sure, they probably have to do training to get there, but I have to do training to say I can safely climb a stepladder at work these days - it means nothing.

      P.S. Tips are optional. And voluntary. Always have been, always will be. But I know some of us on here live in a country where not paying the tip is actually PENALISED with attempts at humiliating you. Try it on me. Just try it.

      If I choose to reward good service, it's done AFTER the service has been performed for me, if the service was exceptional, and on the condition that it was never expected (Bellboys holding their hands out?! Get outta here!).

  9. Unions by Jodka · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "...the nation's largest flight attendant union is now suing the FAA to have the ban on gadget use during takeoff and landing reinstated."

    An excellent example of how unions supplant an eagerness of workers to meet customers wants and needs with an attitude of wanton truculence.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature.
  10. As if we weren't ignoring them before by HangingChad · · Score: 5, Funny

    We were ignoring seat belt puppet show long before the FAA loosened restrictions on gadgets. Besides, if there ever actually was an accident, the chances of needing any of that safety equipment is pretty negligible. I don't think the little oxygen mask is going to be any match for blunt force trauma. At normal airliner speeds, the little mask would be wearing you for protection.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  11. No more $6 drinks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If they were serious about everyone performing in an emergency, they'd ban the $6 alcoholic drinks and screen everyone for benzodiazepines or GABAergic drugs before they stepped on to the plane. Ask yourself (i) whether you'd want to live in a world where you couldn't knock yourself out on a 15-hour flight, and (ii) whether the extremely rare chance of being in an evacuation is worth that level of imposition on basic developer-society human rights (access to physical/mental health care, and the freedom to consume the food/plants of your choice)... and then we'll be in the right area of discussion.

    Captcha: inhibits

  12. Going backwards... by JeffOwl · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Maybe they are on to something. Maybe we should go backwards to the old flight attendant rules...

    "During Pan Am’s heyday in the 1960s, there were strict requirements for stewardesses: They had to be at least 5-foot-2, weigh no more than 130 pounds, and retire by age 32. They couldn’t be married or have children, either. As a result, most women averaged just 18 months on the job."

    No? Don't want to do that?

  13. Re:They worry too much by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 4, Funny

    "In case of fire, exit plane BEFORE tweeting about it."

    That's terrible advice. Those are exactly the people we want staying on the plane!

  14. Re:I'm a pilot by spaceyhackerlady · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, then you're a pretty crappy pilot if you don't have it memorized by now.

    I've made a point of not memorizing checklists. Good pilots always work from their printed checklists. It lessens the chance of missing something.

    ...laura