Slashdot Mirror


Florida Supreme Court: Police Can't Grab Cell Tower Data Without a Warrant

SternisheFan writes with an excerpt from Wired with some (state-specific, but encouraging) news about how much latitude police are given to track you based on signals like wireless transmissions. The Florida Supreme Court ruled Thursday that obtaining cell phone location data to track a person's location or movement in real time constitutes a Fourth Amendment search and therefore requires a court-ordered warrant.

The case specifically involves cell tower data for a convicted drug dealer that police obtained from a telecom without a warrant. But the way the ruling is written (.pdf), it would also cover the use of so-called "stingrays" — sophisticated technology law enforcement agencies use to locate and track people in the field without assistance from telecoms. Agencies around the country, including in Florida, have been using the technology to track suspects — sometimes without obtaining a court order, other times deliberately deceiving judges and defendants about their use of the devices to track suspects, telling judges the information came from "confidential" sources rather than disclose their use of stingrays. The new ruling would require them to obtain a warrant or stop using the devices. The American Civil Liberties Union calls the Florida ruling "a resounding defense" of the public's right to privacy.

36 of 114 comments (clear)

  1. Re:This is horrible! by wierd_w · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes! This is Horrible!

    Rulings like this place obstacles in the way of law enforcement doing what they want, which makes it harder for them to do what they want!

    They have enacted policies and procedures that rely on being able to do what they want without any interference from the courts, and things like this will CLEARLY allow criminals to escape JUSTICE! You dont want law enforcement to LET CRIMINALS GET AWAY, DO YOU!? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

    That's why the various 3-letter agencies are hard at work trying to get laws drafted that will make it legal for them to do what they want! (Because they need to be able to do what they want to do what they want, so they can use the procedures that they have created that rely on them being able to do what they want!)

    *In case you hadn't noticed, I am laying it on thick for a reason. This is basically the argument, boiled down and rarefied to its most basic components, being provided by law enforcement against rulings and findings like this.

  2. anonymously sourced evidence? by ihtoit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I would immediately dismiss as unverifiable. There is NO WAY to prove chain of custody if you're not being given the CoC right back to and INCLUDING the source.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    1. Re:anonymously sourced evidence? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yep. There's never any reason to keep the source of information secret from the judge that issues the warrant.

    2. Re:anonymously sourced evidence? by Imrik · · Score: 2

      The question isn't whether they are able to, it's whether they actually will.

    3. Re:anonymously sourced evidence? by penix1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The question should be what is so fucking hard about getting a warrant? They are handed out like candy these days so what is so hard about getting one?

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    4. Re:anonymously sourced evidence? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't rely on the whim of judges. Develop stronger crypto.

    5. Re:anonymously sourced evidence? by penix1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, it truly is easy if there is probable cause.

      This is from: http://legal-dictionary.thefre...

      Probable cause is not equal to absolute certainty. That is, a police officer does not have to be absolutely certain that criminal activity is taking place to perform a search or make an arrest. Probable cause can exist even when there is some doubt as to the person's guilt. Courts take care to review the actions of police in the context of everyday life, Balancing the interests of law enforcement against the interests of personal liberty in determining whether probable cause existed for a search or arrest.

      If they are not planning to arrest someone, then why the warrantless search? The point is, if the police can articulate their suspicions clearly enough with a modicum of evidence, they get the warrant.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    6. Re:anonymously sourced evidence? by tqk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Then it's either sheer fucking arrogance that pushes them around obtaining a warrant (we're the "law", we don't need a warrant), or you are actually wrong, and they're harder than it appears on TV.

      Oh, come on. A New York judge was recently busted for being in collusion with a young offender's prison. Damned near every kid who faced him got time. The cops could do no wrong, or it would hit him in his wallet.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    7. Re:anonymously sourced evidence? by lendude · · Score: 2

      Well, yes your point does stand but AC is correct: it would stand with more authority if you took the time to google for correct details of the central premise of your argument (as opposed to just every word you type).

      --
      "Get off the cross - we need the wood" - Tori Amos
  3. Re:This is horrible! by CaptainDork · · Score: 2

    The only way to stop that from happening ...

    There's only one way.

    How simple.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  4. Criminals who carry tracking devices... by NixieBunny · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Carrying a tracking device is not a good idea if you don't want to be tracked. Cellphones are basically tracking devices that also place phone calls and take photos of incriminating evidence.

    Leave your phone at home when doing naughty things - it will give you an alibi!

    --
    The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
    1. Re:Criminals who carry tracking devices... by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 2

      Leave your cellphone at home even if you aren't planning to do 'naughty' things; our government violates everyone's privacy regardless.

    2. Re:Criminals who carry tracking devices... by NixieBunny · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, it's reasonable to assume that your cellphone is betraying your every move, if it's on you. The cops ignore the laws anyways - we have to deal with it somehow. The bet way is to not make it easy for them, by using other ways of communicating that don't trigger the cop spying machinery.

      --
      The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
    3. Re:Criminals who carry tracking devices... by Imrik · · Score: 2

      It only works as an alibi if you can force them to admit that they know where your phone was and that it was at home.

    4. Re:Criminals who carry tracking devices... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Many cars are also tracking devices now too.

    5. Re:Criminals who carry tracking devices... by bipbop · · Score: 2

      Or possibly a Faraday cage.

  5. Yeah yeah by penguinoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Florida Supreme Court rules that a bunch of criminals who broke the most sacred laws of the land, won't get punished for their previous crimes.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    1. Re:Yeah yeah by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 2

      The bunch of criminals were not on trial.

      Also, the fact that this made it to the state Supreme Court means it was not obviously a crime when it was done.

      If you can catch Florida law enforcement doing it now, you would have a really good case for a lawsuit.

      Much as it would simplify things, the world does not work the way you think/wish it does.

    2. Re:Yeah yeah by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you can catch Florida law enforcement doing it now, you would have a really good case for a lawsuit.

      Yeah, but would anyone actually be punished? Merely forcing the taxpayers to hand over money isn't as good as imprisoning the ones responsible for violating people's liberties.

    3. Re:Yeah yeah by dcollins117 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a bonus, putting these criminals in jail will also most likely stop all this complaining about a prisoner shortage.

      I have a better idea. Why don't we put police who routinely break the law by conducting warrantless searches in the vacant jail cells. Two birds, one stone.

    4. Re:Yeah yeah by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, but would anyone actually be punished?

      Of course you would.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    5. Re:Yeah yeah by silas_moeckel · · Score: 2

      Not obviously a crime?? Do the FL police not have a copy of the constitution handy? You know that thing they promise to uphold. Frankly the judges that were lied to should be charging these people with criminal contempt of court since it's something within their power. Yes that means less bad cops and lawyers.

      We need the cops to be told parallel construction etc etc is never OK. If they can not reveal the means then they can not use the means is pretty simple. If they fear people finding about what/how they are doing something then they should not be doing it. It is not war the means police use need to be fully transparent to the people they claim to protect and serve.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
  6. This should have been a no brainer by whistlingtony · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    I consider my phone to be "papers and effects" pretty heavily. Everyone does. That this was even a question is pretty annoying.

    1. Re:This should have been a no brainer by hedgemage · · Score: 4, Funny

      You'd be mistaken! The founders meant actual, physical paper (made from wood pulp, no vellum or papyrus!) when they said "papers" and "effects" to specifically mean snuff boxes. Law enforcement are merely constitutional purists.

    2. Re:This should have been a no brainer by Immerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree. But that has nothing directly to do with this. Your phone is not being searched, it's regularly broadcasting its identity for the world to hear as part of it's normal function - it has to so that the cell company can determine which tower is closest and route your calls accordingly. That routing information then makes it trivial to determine at roughly where your phone is at all times. The cops are then requesting that information from the phone company and/or using stingrays to track your radio broadcast directly. *Your* papers and effects are never searched, the phone company is simply transferring *their* operational logs about you to the to the police.

      The problem of course is that they are using that information as a substitute for invasive electronic tracking devices that generally would require a warrant. The courts then have to decide whether it's the technical details or the functional results that are more significant, and I think they made the right call.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    3. Re:This should have been a no brainer by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree. But that has nothing directly to do with this.

      Wrong. The spirit of the constitution is very much relevant here. In today's world, you have little choice but to hand over information to at least a few companies. If the government is allowed to get any information from any company without even so much as a warrant, then no one can have any reasonable degree of privacy without making great sacrifices. That is unreasonable.

      When the fourth takes about "papers," it doesn't literally seek to protect the paper itself, but the information contained on the papers. I'd say protecting people's information is very relevant here.

    4. Re:This should have been a no brainer by ranpel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What about "secure in their persons"? I'm pretty certain that my person should not be searched. That would include where I've been in order to determine where I'm going and where I am at any moment.. The government having access to this type of information at will does not make me secure from much of anything. As a direct result of my person being then where my person has been, in near totality, should not be a source of information accessible by government without a warrant. I can't see how any reasonable person can interpret that amendment much differently.

      --
      \r
    5. Re:This should have been a no brainer by tqk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Translation: "We live in a police state. Deal with it. Happy now?"

      Information is power.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  7. Stingray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why do they want to hide what the Stingray can do when people think they already know what it does? Because it allows them to do a lot more than just track a cell phone in an area.

    At the lowest level of LTE the provider can take control of the phone at a lower level than the operating system. Thus there is a tremendous amount of access to what the phone has other than location. They can turn on the microphone and listen and access other phone capabilities which makes it a much more powerful tool than just knowing the location of a handset or person in an area.

    It does allow knowledge of the location down to meters and the number of active devices and locations within an area. This allows the operator to know how many people are in a building and map their locations and movements in real time.

    1. Re:Stingray by tqk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At the lowest level of LTE the provider can take control of the phone at a lower level than the operating system.

      I was just reading a story about the "Citizen Four" (Snowden) documentary. He worries they can quietly enable VOIP phones' mics. That's hardware; OS level stuff; "root/administrator" access. Considering their NSL access (to AT&T, et al), they have full control of anything they want to control of things you think you own.

      If they can turn on the mic to listen in, surely they can read and slurp anything stored on the thing, and bolted on after the fact crypto isn't going to protect anything.

      Orwell was a piker. But then, he wasn't a Musolini, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Mugabe, Abdulaziz, Stalin, Assad, ... (have I missed any? Oh yeah, Netanyahu, ...) nor a US president.

      The Nazis won, because our democratically elected leaders adopted their methods.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  8. Re:This is horrible! by davester666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, they already are doing it, as there is nobody providing oversight that will actually stop them from doing it in any meaningful way. They just want the laws changed so they don't take a PR hit every couple of weeks from these practices being revealed to the public.

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  9. All warfare is based on deception by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "other times deliberately deceiving judges and defendants"

    "All warfare is based on deception." - Sun Tzu

    What we have is a National Security State at war with the domestic population.

    1. Re:All warfare is based on deception by koan · · Score: 2

      Which begs the question "Who do they actually work for?"

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    2. Re:All warfare is based on deception by koan · · Score: 2

      See you could have just written the second part, but you needed to throw in the insult.
      So lets look at your premise, you think they (more than one person) are are working for themselves and their own power, which would mean they (more than one person) are coordinating this power grab, and since the outcome is detrimental to our country I think it's safe to say your premise meets this definition.
      conspiracy
      knspirs/
      noun
      noun: conspiracy; plural noun: conspiracies

              a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
              "a conspiracy to destroy the government"
              synonyms: plot, scheme, plan, machination, ploy, trick, ruse, subterfuge;
              informalracket
              "a conspiracy to manipulate the results"
                      the action of plotting or conspiring.
                      "they were cleared of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice"
                      synonyms: plotting, collusion, intrigue, connivance, machination, collaboration;
                      treason

      I simply asked a question, you sir are the one with the "conspiracy theory".

      --
      "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  10. State specific? by koan · · Score: 2

    If it's truly a 4th amendment issue then it applies everywhere in the US.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  11. As a Grand Juror... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...I've seen evidence from cell phone towers subpoenaed for an investigation. It's pretty interesting - they used surveillance camera photos from several establishments, including the one involved in the crime, but also spent a lot of time proving that the phones belonging to the targets of the investigation were in proximity to the crime as it was being committed.

    And I don't think there's much oversight. I see a lot of opinions from the parties involved that, "well, it's just an indictment. If there's something unfair about this, it'll come out at the trial." I suspect my fellow jurors would indict the suspect who police handcuffed *after* they shot him to death, if the AUSA asked them.

    Sleep well, citizens! (Posted anonymously for obvious reasons.)