If You're Connected, Apple Collects Your Data

fyngyrz (762201) writes It would seem that no matter how you configure Yosemite, Apple is listening. Keeping in mind that this is only what's been discovered so far, and given what's known to be going on, it's not unthinkable that more is as well. Should users just sit back and accept this as the new normal? It will be interesting to see if these discoveries result in an outcry, or not. Is it worse than the data collection recently reported in a test version of Windows?

Comments

Yes, worse

[Zaelath]

Of course it's much worse than the data collection from a "technical preview". It's whole purpose is to discover how people use the damn thing and you sign up to be a guinea-pig in exchange for getting the advanced access.

However, it's "to be expected" from Apple. You don't own their phones or laptops, they own you.

Of course it's worse

[msobkow]

Microsoft is testing a release candidate and is informing users of what they're monitoring.

So far no one has complained about onerous licensing agreements with Yosemite, which seems to imply that Apple is not informing users about it.

Until Microsoft has a production release, it's not even fair to compare the two.

no, its not good thou

[blackest_k]

Seems Apples picking up searches from safari, even when told not too.
microsoft decided to log all your key strokes. Both experiences are negative but the later situation seems worse although niether are acceptable why should safari be sending "where to bury the body" back to apple, perhaps they have been "asked" for this information.

Re:If you want results from the web

[blackest_k]

um no.
you didn't read the link the string was sent to duck duck go and also sent to apple there is no need for the search string to go to both.

if the user was using apple to search then of course the search string should go to apple but if its sent to google then it shouldn't go to apple as well.

Re:If you want results from the web

[anagama]

From TFA:

Having read DuckDuckGo's privacy statements, you might decide to switch Safari's default search to DuckDuckGo. If we enter a new search in Safari, we can then search the logged data to see who the search terms are actually sent to.

The logs show that a copy of your Safari searches are still sent to Apple, even when selecting DuckDuckGo as your search provider, and 'Spotlight Suggestions' are disabled in System Preferences > Spotlight.

Or why when setting up an email account does the mail app send the domain name you enter to apple?

I say all this as a person who has been using mac laptops for the last 9 or 10 years. I'm obviously not an apple hater but this seriously makes me question whether I'll buy another one. It's a pretty astounding intrusion demonstrating some rather staggering hubris.

Benefits and safeguards

[iamacat]

For most users, complete privacy from all internet services is not an option. When you enter a query into a search engine, you are providing the server with knowledge of your often very private interests. Your IP address and cookies make it easy for anyone determined to discover your identity as a person.

So the first question is, do you directly benefit from your personal information being collected and retained? In case of a search query, collecting it for the purpose of showing search results is obviously necessary. Long term retention in the form that can be traced back to you is murky. Forwarding it to Apple seems unnecessary and I hope that the company provides an explanation.

As far as safeguards go, it's reasonable that available information is provided to authorities with a subpoena which is narrowed down to minimum required for investigation. Like a list of queries with specific, obviously incriminating keywords made in the last month.

But the notion of complete anonymity is about as practical for most people as living in the cabin in the woods. As a matter of principal, I don't think either should be made illegal. But most people will not be happy with the results, and most crooks will be too dumb to follow these lifestyles so strictly that they don't slip up and get caught.

Re:Doesn't look like much

[anagama]

I think I understand -- you are saying the software operates as designed, so no problems here.

I think what you aren't getting is that the way the software is designed is what ticks off people who care about their privacy.

Seriously, why should mail.app inform apple that I set up an account randomMailHost.com? That the software does leads you to write [closed: behaves correctly]. This is not at all "correct" from many users' points of view -- you should use a phrase that is more factual and uses words with less judgment involved, for example: [closed: behaves as _designed_ (and if you don't like the design, suck it)].

That's absurd, aim your hate cannon elsewhere.

[Brannon]

Apple has an excellent track record on privacy issues. Not because they are super nice people, but because that's not their business model.

They don't make money by selling user information to third parties or by selling ads, they make money by selling actual physical objects to end-consumers. I'm not sure what you mean by "it's to be expected from Apple", but I'm pretty sure you just made that up because you don't like Apple's customers (probably because you met somebody who likes Apple products who has a more expensive haircut than you).

Re:That's absurd, aim your hate cannon elsewhere.

[drinkypoo]

They don't make money by selling user information to third parties or by selling ads

Sure, it's not their main cash cow, but they do sell ads, with targeting and analytics.

Yes, they do offer a service to developers, but they don't use it themselves in any app I'm aware of.

Moving the goalposts is a logical fallacy commonly employed by fanboys (or in this case, iFanboys) who know full well that a claim which casts their favorite thing in a bad light is true. And the stated claim is true. You've only proven your iFanboy nature with your above comment. Thanks, though, for proving that Apple fans have to fall back on lies and deception in order to seem like they have a point. Even as stated, your words are false. When you pay for an Apple product (a piece of hardware running iOS) it does not prevent Apple from spying on you; to the contrary, it enables it. And since Apple is in charge of the App Store, and they created this API specifically for apps sold through their App Store, they are directly responsible for distributing apps which utilize it to you on multiple levels.

Re:Yay :D

[anagama]

There is a distinction in how you interact with a browser, and the actual content of your searches. Blurring this line is pretty ugly. Apple needs to know stuff like: The user clicked in the search field, typed stuff, and then because of a 60s delay in executing the search, probably couldn't see or understand the search icon, and clearly didn't know to press return (or the phone rang). To get this, Apple doesn't need to know what the person typed. But if that is the claim -- the need to know what is typed -- why not just enable the video camera and microphone too -- that would make it easier to figure out if the person is having problems with the Safari interface, or just answering a text on his phone. I'm guessing people would be sort of grossed out by that, but it fits right in with what you say they need, so why not go total surveillance?

Re:If you want results from the web

[Rosyna]

Because then you are sending a lot of requests to random domains that may not be designed to handle the traffic? And a lot, a hell of a lot of mail servers out there for common email services use legacy mail servers not related to the domain of the email address (because the mail servers were set up before that particular email domain became popular).

Super quick example, if you have a @windowslive.com email address, the IMAP server is imap-mail.outlook.com. The Exchange ActiveSync server is s.outlook.com. Neither one would be found but your suggestion of randomly hitting subdomains.

There is actually an included list of common Mail Servers and common mail configurations. Mail.app only sends the domain when the domain is not on the list or the configuration fails. It also means that if enough users look for a domain, Apple can immediately include the information without waiting for an update.

Have you ever done tech support for email problems before? It's a nightmare. Anything to help the user is best.

Re:Yay :D

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean like Windows 8 had a competitive edge because of all the improvements with the UI?

UI experts are notoriously bad at creating a good UI. They're trying too hard to find a reason for their jobs and they end up trying to fix things which are not broken.

Re: Yay :D

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

If you don't trust an OS vendor, isn't using a network monitoring tool on a different host entirely, with physical access to the wire, pretty much the only way to go? If they were so motivated, the OS would basically be a rootkit with device drivers and a userspace API...