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NPR: '80s Ads Are Responsible For the Lack of Women Coders
gollum123 writes: Back in the day, computer science was as legitimate a career path for women as medicine, law, or science. But in 1984, the number of women majoring in computing-related subjects began to fall, and the percentage of women is now significantly lower in CS than in those other fields. NPR's Planet Money sought to answer a simple question: Why? According to the show's experts, computers were advertised as a "boy's toy." This, combined with early '80s geek culture staples like the book Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution, as well as movies like War Games and Weird Science, conspired to instill the perception that computers were primarily for men.
The only thing responsible for a "lack of women coders" is that fewer women than men are interested in software development as a career path. So what? I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to why this is a problem, why this is something to be concerned about, or why millions of dollars are being thrown around in an attempt to change the situation.
Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
Men started to outpace women at an accelerated rate when the highly personal learning style of "having a pc to play on" became an option. Given that we see more and more of an imbalance in favor of women in group learning environments (college and even moreso in graduate programs), maybe this is just something very obvious, and a good thing for men, as men can excel in solitary study which they can tailor to their own interests and pace. As my wife, a school psychologist said, girls tend to learn better in groups, and don't typically like to work in competitive/solo situations given the choice, whereas boys often do. I'll take the advantage on this one, gladly.
When computers were viewed as toys, it was acceptable for girls to have them. Once they became tools, however, they were only for boys.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
I read a post about this article somewhere else the other day and someone pointed out that there was a drop in CS majors at the same point for males as well. Possibly due to more varied degrees which involved computers being offered. So there may not have been a real drop in female CS majors at that time, just an overall drop.
Assigning guilt/blame to a group of people based on a characteristic outside of their control tends to do that.
Actually that's part of the problem.
Women frequently don't like being fawned over by unattractive men. Usually when women get "chased off" by nerds it's that very "would kill for more women to be interested in this stuff" attitude that does it.
Computing IS anti social!
Not before the 1980s.
You get good at programming by staring at a screen and figuring things out.
In the 1970s, you got good at programming in a big noisy room full of other coders, reading over each others printouts, and then modifying your card deck, before submitting it to the operator at the window to the machine room. Then you sit around and socialize while you wait for your job to run. It was a very social activity.
Then personal computers came along, and all that changed. Coding became an isolated activity that you did in a cubicle, or in a bedroom at 2am. Computer screens were harder for collaboration than paper printouts. Fast compilers left no time for socializing.
It's the SJW ninnies that are trying to pretend that nerds are the perpetrators here when they are generally powerless and denigrated.
I find the idea that nerds would ever chase off women particularly amusing. Hell, most of us would KILL to have women around. If women are electing to not pursue the field, it's certainly not because they're unwelcome. On every team that I've ever been on with women, the guys went out of their way to be nice to them.
If you listen to the NPR segment, they have a couple of women who were former compsci majors give accounts of how the men in their classes denigrated them and mocked them for missing some knowledge. I'm not certain it's motivated by a "no girls allowed" attitude. I think there's a broader culture of elitism in compsci that motivates people to try to bolster their own egos by jumping on perceived weaknesses in others.
It's important to note that to focus of the segment was on university compsci courses in the 80s, not women who get employed on professional teams. Generally people are a bit more mature in the workforce (generally). These are 18-22 year old males. They likely were a bit ostracized as nerdy in high school. I think they just get overzealous once they find themselves in a world where athletic prowess is no longer the ultimate display of dominance. they make bad decisions.
They might even be simply showing off. I think i've tried to impress nerd girls the wrong way. Where i thought i was communicating, "hey look at how good i am at this!", i really was saying, "OMG YOU ARE A STUPID GIRL". I certainly wasn't very good at communicating with women in my late teens and early 20s. i'm only marginally better at it 20 years later.
Am not really sure about this, as a male I've been given shit plenty of times when I screwed up as a student. I even had one of my lecturers give me the 'women are better than men' speech once.
Funnily enough I didn't leave the course/sue him for sexism or demand a feminist blog cover my plight.
For all the talk about the differences in socialization, I know just as many introverted women as I do men. So the question for me is the problem with associating computing careers with being non-social or is the problem telling women they are broken if they aren't social.
So it's also the 80s movies to blame that women are not interested in careers like soldier, spy, pilot, policeman (apology, -woman), archaeologist, exorcist, karate fighter,...
Has anyone ever looked closer at the 80s? The 80s were not a geek decade. The only movie I can remember where geeks were not just the comic foil (ok, even in that one they were) was "Revenge of the nerds". The whole "engineering geeks" were no role model in 80s movies, and even less so in TV series. Whenever they were in some prominent role, they were the little sidekick of the actual hero. Be it Automan's creator Walter, who was mostly a comic sidekick (ok, the show wasn't that memorable, but the special effects were great for its time) or Street Hawk's Norman who was some timid, beancounter-ish scaredy-cat. The geek roles were at best meant to make the hero shine some more.
Actually, the only engineer role I can remember that was allowed to be superior in areas to the hero and be more than a nuisance to him was that of Bonnie in Knight Rider.
A woman.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Now it appears, that we must change. We must adapt our requirements toward people who are easily swayed out of this carreer path. We must, in the name of equal representation, educate and employ people who are highly susceptable to social approval by others.
The problem with memory is that we often see the past not as it was, but as we want it to be.
I actively worked in recruitment and retention of female tech workers, up to the time I retired, a couple years back. Perhaps 2012 is recent enogh to pass your validity test? What have you done to support women in Technology, and retention of women in Technology?
If I might go so far down the line as the "Take your Son's and Daughters to Work" days, almost none of the young ladies ever expressed an interest in Technical field or engineering. The young ladies were tending toward lawyers, and MBA', and those of a more science based career tended toward Medical doctors or Veternarian fields.
These were young ladies who were largely daughters of Engineers and Tech workers.
Now if you just figure I'm some senile old dotard, you can stop here. I'm going to give you my assessment of why the situation exists. It might just conflict with your worldview.
In the mid 70's, the first large group of women entered the professional workforce. They came into it in many fields, and there was a mix of professions.
Then over time, they sorted things out, Many found reasons to gravitate towards some professions over others. .
And quite frankly, how is being a coder or other computer science worker, going to compare ot being an MBA, or a Veterinarian, or even a lawyer?
If you want to be a coder, you had better be prepared to work a lot of extra time, and not extra time like say, the MBA's do. Veterinarians have irregular hours, but in most cases there is one on call at any particular time. I certainly worked more than my share of 80 hour weeks, and some number of 100 hour weeks, and seldom ever less than 55 hours. My better half deserved a medal for putting up with that, or at least bringing me in achange of clothing If I got a 5 O'clock surprise. Plus, I was paid very well, but that reflects on the time I was willing to put in. Those who couldn't be bothered, made a lot less.
Same with Engineers, and scientists.
Point in fact, it is not all that desirable a profession, unless you really want to do that as a profession.
Finally, a person who gets into coding today doesn't have much of a job outlook in the US.
So other jobs with better pay, less hours, and more respect, versus long hours, little respect, and a future of diminshed earning potential - and people are saying it's because guys in Tech are pigs? Tempting, I suppose, if you want a sound bite answer, but I'd bet that if the work situations were similar between Tech jobs and the more popular careers for women, we would see a lot more women in tech jobs.
After all, I trust that youre not so naive to suggest that there is no sexism in the Law,, Veterinarian, or Business environment do you?
If sexism kept women out of fields, you wouldn't see one female MBA..
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.