Slashdot Mirror


BitTorrent Performance Test: Sync Is Faster Than Google Drive, OneDrive, Dropbox

An anonymous reader writes Now that its file synchronization tool has received a few updates, BitTorrent is going on the offensive against cloud-based storage services by showing off just how fast BitTorrent Sync can be. More specifically, the company conducted a test that shows Sync destroys Google Drive, Microsoft's OneDrive, and Dropbox. The company transferred a 1.36 GB MP4 video clip between two Apple MacBook Pros using two Apple Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet Adapters, the Time.gov site as a real-time clock, and the Internet connection at its headquarters (1 Gbps up/down). The timer started when the file transfer was initiated and then stopped once the file was fully synced and downloaded onto the receiving machine. Sync performed 8x faster than Google Drive, 11x faster than OneDrive, and 16x faster than Dropbox.

124 comments

  1. and speed was never the point of dropbox by discovercomics · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In my mind speed and saturation of bandwidth is NOT what I want on a folder syncing service. Sync it up in the background for me.

    1. Re:and speed was never the point of dropbox by TFlan91 · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's completely independent of speed, what you are talking about are limits and/or throttling, both of which are sliders in settings.

    2. Re:and speed was never the point of dropbox by TFlan91 · · Score: 2

      ...

      And who knows, I didnt care to read tfa, but they couldve developed a nice algorithm like that new hit show I cant remember the name of

    3. Re:and speed was never the point of dropbox by safetyinnumbers · · Score: 1

      And all the others were uploading an online copy too, so this isn't a like-for-like comparison (I think that DropBox, at least, supports direct local network copying but would probably be making the online backup at the same time).

    4. Re:and speed was never the point of dropbox by ihtoit · · Score: 0

      ...and like that new hit show, such an algorithm will ever remain the figment of someone's deranged imagination.

      (I mean, seriously?? A plane that size doing 200mph eight feet off the ground not a: smashing engine pods to bits and/or b: flipping due to ground effect? And why couldn't they just fucking land it, they had the time and apparently the runway...)

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    5. Re:and speed was never the point of dropbox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "(I mean, seriously?? A plane that size doing 200mph eight feet off the ground not a: smashing engine pods to bits and/or b: flipping due to ground effect? And why couldn't they just fucking land it, they had the time and apparently the runway...)"

      And that other show, where there is that doctor that cannot die, who, when killed, appears under water, naked.

      But apparently the phone in his clothes, that disappear with him, are magically transferred to a new suit at home, where he can use it again when needed.

      I mean, plot-holes where you can drive a starfleet through are OK for star wars, but here?
      Come on guys, we know there wasn't much place on the beer-mat but... come on!

    6. Re:and speed was never the point of dropbox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Silicon Valley? "Meet in the Middle" / "Pied Piper"?

    7. Re:and speed was never the point of dropbox by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Actually I'm pretty sure he never carries a cell phone. In the last episode one rings in his pocket, having been planted there, he's surprised, and he ultimately ditches it. One must wonder about his wallet though... Overall Forever hasn't been all that bad. Scorpion has also gotten a little less far-fetched but not much. It's still fun to suspend belief and just watch rather than trying to pick it apart.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    8. Re:and speed was never the point of dropbox by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      And that other show, where there is that doctor that cannot die, who, when killed, appears under water, naked.

      Wait, what show is that?

      Or was it a dream you had?

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    9. Re:and speed was never the point of dropbox by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      And who knows, I didnt care to read tfa, but they couldve developed a nice algorithm like that new hit show I cant remember the name of

      Black Jesus?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    10. Re:and speed was never the point of dropbox by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      nah, it's still more fun to poke holes in it...

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    11. Re:and speed was never the point of dropbox by simcop2387 · · Score: 2

      Forever (2014)

      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt34...

      It's still finding itself but it's actually doing a pretty good job of it so far.

    12. Re:and speed was never the point of dropbox by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Yes I know, but throttling users who set poor limits is generally frowned upon and tends to hurt your fingers after a while.

    13. Re:and speed was never the point of dropbox by StarFace · · Score: 1

      You should be relying upon bandwidth throttling features to do that for you, not the inefficiency of your tech. Speed is vital in this market because speed reduces the chances of causing data conflicts. Slow and steady background uploads increase risk of conflicts as the average user doesn't pay attention to upload/download status before shutting down a machine or resuming work. Faster transfer reduce problematic "lazy" sync usage at a statistical scale.

      --
      V
    14. Re: and speed was never the point of dropbox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cop is always bitching about not being able to get a hold over him and he hates phones.

      I think you're a plot hole.

  2. Is it open source yet? by Drinking+Bleach · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's no real point in using it if you can't even trust it does what they say it does...

    1. Re:Is it open source yet? by operator_error · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here's an 'unofficial' open-source bit-sync client:
      www.yeasoft.com/site/projects:btsync-deb:btsync-server

      It doesn't install on .rpm based distros so far as I can tell. I have a use-case that calls for drop-dead-easy cross-platform sync, and I'm leaning towards using git-annex assistant, but haven't had time to thoroughly test it yet.

    2. Re:Is it open source yet? by suutar · · Score: 1

      No, but there is an open source bittorrent based syncer called "syncthing". It's not as mature, but it is supposedly functional. Have at :)

    3. Re:Is it open source yet? by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      None of the services listed are open source, so that is a red herring. Open source isn't even particularly important here, because your data isn't locked into any kind of a format - you can switch freely to any service at any time, and you have a complete copy of your data at all times. If you really need open source, there are options which require a server: SparkleShare works well for me, and I understand that OwnCloud has something that works decently as well.

      My problem with the service is that it works poorly in a mixed-computing environment. It loses xattr between Mac and Windows (and probably Linux). It has some pretty bad behavior when faced with a filename that only differs due to case.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    4. Re:Is it open source yet? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      It doesn't even do anything for me. It was working and then just stopped. No files synch for me and both the handset and the computer it's supposed to synch with are 'net reachable. Nothing changed in the config of the PC so I have no idea what happened. I've tried dorking with settings and updating every time something new comes out - doesn't help...

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    5. Re:Is it open source yet? by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Google Drive, OneDrive, Dropbox

      They all have your data, they can do whatever the f... they want with it. Unless you're talking about a client backdoor to access all the other files you didn't want to share with the cloud, but I don't think any of the others are any better. If you want real control, it's ownCloud or no cloud I think...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    6. Re:Is it open source yet? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      If you want real control, it's ownCloud or no cloud I think...

      I've been meaning to ask someone about this. Is OwnCloud something that someone who's kind of a moron could set up on their own server? Asking for a friend.

      Maybe not a moron, I mean, I've set up Apache and a media server, and I can read instructions when I'm sober. I just worry that I'll do something wrong and end up syncing my data with some Estonian hackers by mistake.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    7. Re:Is it open source yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you've managed to set up an Apache server, you've got enough prerequisite skill to be able to install OwnCloud. I set it up once and it works, kinda, but it's not really as slick or robust as something like Dropbox. It's still a fairly immature FOSS product with not much in the way of paid development and it definitely shows at times in terms of usability and performance.

      It's great fun to roll your own at times, but you'll always be behind the pros who do this for a living and have worked out all the kinks.

    8. Re:Is it open source yet? by vomitology · · Score: 0, Troll

      That whole 'if it's not FOSS I can't trust it' line is mostly bull. Unless you know how to de-compile the code and eye read it, it doesn't matter *what* the license is, you still have to trust that whoever wrote it does what it says it does, and nothing more. And if you can, well... carry on. ( :

      --
      ~Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
    9. Re:Is it open source yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      de-compile the code? In Open Source the code is there, and people do look at it.

    10. Re:Is it open source yet? by stephenmac7 · · Score: 2

      It's actually called Pulse now and it's source can be found on Github under the old name.

      --
      "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." -- Judge Gideon J. Tucker
    11. Re:Is it open source yet? by Junta · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's not that difficult. But after setting it up for a group of people and then setting up seafile, I prefer seafile. If you aren't an admin user in owncloud, things are pretty tough when it comes to knowing what groups you are in and what groups can be shared with and such. seafile does a much better job on that front.

      Plus the owncloud sync client doesn't seem very good. And the mobile platform clients cost money where seafile is free.

      ownCloud might have gotten the 'good name', but they don't have the best implementation sadly.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    12. Re:Is it open source yet? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Seafile. Got it. Thank you.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    13. Re:Is it open source yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are worried about that, or just want to test it out and kick the tires a bit, May I suggest BitNami They have simple installer for all platforms or prebuilt VM images.

    14. Re:Is it open source yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ownCloud sync client for Android is free from the F-Droid repository.

      I've been quite pleased with ownCloud and it's been getting better over the year+ I've been using it, though admittedly I don't do too much with groups, especially as a non-admin. I don't remember (much) of Seafile, so it was probably immature last time I was looking, but thanks to your recommendation I'll check it out in more depth.

    15. Re:Is it open source yet? by Lennie · · Score: 2

      Supposedly it has gotten a lot better in recent versions:
      http://owncloud.org/blog/owncl...

      --
      New things are always on the horizon
    16. Re:Is it open source yet? by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      Is it open source yet? There's no real point in using it if you can't even trust it does what they say it does...

      I can trust a company even if a program is not open source.

    17. Re:Is it open source yet? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      OwnCloud is open source and does the same things as Dropbox (although in really crappy PHP on the server, so you'd better have a lot of spare cycles to burn - it's the first time for several years I've seen file transfers across the Internet be CPU limited).

      The problem is that they're comparing apples to oranges. Of course a direct local connection will be faster than two devices sharing the same Internet connection and going via a server, but most of the time that I want to use a server as part of a sync workflow it's because the devices aren't together and I want to do it asynchronously. The equivalent for BitTorrent Sync would involve having a central server somewhere (possibly in your own home) that's always on and is a party in the sync.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    18. Re:Is it open source yet? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I found it pretty easy to set up on FreeBSD - install the owncloud, php5, and nginx packages and then a tiny bit of configuration (mostly copying and pasting from the owncloud site). The only gotcha was that the default nginx configuration doesn't know the correct MIME type for svg files, so I needed to fix that or none of the images in owncloud worked correctly.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    19. Re:Is it open source yet? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Unless I'm misreading something, Seafile seems to just do file sharing (for which a simple WebDAV server is mostly enough). The value of owncloud (for me, at least) is that it also does contact and calendar sync, so my phone and computer always have the same data for these.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    20. Re:Is it open source yet? by operator_error · · Score: 1

      For my workgroup/use-case we looked into Syncthing/Pulse and ruled it out because another requirement of ours is read-only sharing/distribution. So far, we're still stuck using the official Bit-Torrent Sync. In other words, so far, given our long list of fairly strict requirements, Bit-Torrent Sync sucks less then everything else.

      I'm hoping git annex assistant will pass testing once I get to it. We're trying to distribute files using wifi at open-source conferences, using some kind of LAN technology, since we tend to quickly congest conference wireless/hardware facilities, and can't reliably work with an outside server. In our experience so far, Bit-Torrent Sync sucks less then everything else we've tried.

    21. Re:Is it open source yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With Pulse you can set up a Folder Master, where only one chosen device can alter files, and the rest only receives read-only updates. Isn't that what you are describing?

    22. Re:Is it open source yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Android client is free. Even if the play store shows it with a price (i am not sure it does, but some open source projets do this), you can download it directly or on F-Droid since it's really open source.

    23. Re:Is it open source yet? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      This may be the most /. ever example of the bravery/stupidity conundrum.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    24. Re:Is it open source yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the point stands. The average user is not building binaries.

    25. Re:Is it open source yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only that... no one really reads the source anyway, even if they are programmers.
      Last week I saw here a guy saying there is a forum where they actually discuss how to inject malicious code into open source projects, kinda interesting...

    26. Re:Is it open source yet? by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      That's odd. The newer versions on the phone have the option to force sync though.

      Just hit the menu button and it will give you an option for "Sync".

      It might start working again after that, also there is a possibility that the options for your folders has changed. They have the option of syncing automatically or just syncing the file description until you click on it.

      I hope this helps you.

    27. Re:Is it open source yet? by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      There is also AeoroFS. They have a cloud option if you are willing to pay for it, but otherwise their servers are only used to tell the clients where the other computers are. It works quite well too. I use both this and BtSync.

  3. OwnCloud? by fishscene · · Score: 1

    I wonder how the speed compares with OwnCloud.

    1. Re:OwnCloud? by MatthiasF · · Score: 2

      If the OwnCloud server is on the same LAN as the laptops, I bet it is the same speed or faster than Sync.

      If off-site from the server, I doubt the OwnCloud clients are smart enough to know a friendly computer is on the same LAN to share already downloaded chunks.

      Which I might add is the only advantage to Bittorrent Sync. The technology only provides an increase in speed if one of the clients on the LAN has pieces of data already downloaded so the Internet connection is not as necessary. If neither computer has any of the data and both start downloading the same file, there is no advantage at all since the bandwidth shared between the two of them is the same finite amount.

    2. Re:OwnCloud? by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      Just like Bittorrent sync, its highly dependent on your setup. If you run Owncloud on your home router with 1M uplink, your speed is that small. If you run your owncloud on a server with a gigabit uplink, and use google fiber, and you have an SSD in your owncloud server, you might get faster speeds.

    3. Re:OwnCloud? by suutar · · Score: 1

      I'm not certain, but it's quite possible that the server they're both downloading from is smart enough to say "Hmm. I have two clients who want the same thing and have none of it. Let's try sending them different blocks and see if they can share between themselves; if they can, I only have to send each block once instead of twice."

    4. Re:OwnCloud? by suutar · · Score: 1

      (Speaking of BTSync, I was. That was a standard optimization for seeding, to try to get swarm members to get stuff from each other instead of slamming the seed.)

    5. Re:OwnCloud? by chuckugly · · Score: 1

      The protocol should do that in any case.

    6. Re:OwnCloud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd think this would definitely be supported straight out the box, but the few times I've tried syncing a large set of files (10GB or so worth) with a couple of friends over the net - adding two new peers at once halved the data rate outgoing. It should have sent out different blocks to each to leverage their bandwidth between them, but it didn't. We ended up having to just let one peer grab it all first, then allow another to start up,once that was done.

    7. Re:OwnCloud? by corychristison · · Score: 2

      OwnCloud is a WebDAV based system. It's inherently bloated, but it works. Setting it up your own web server is a requirement (or purchasing web hosting somewhere, but then the trust/security goes out the window).
      Google Drive, Dropbox, Onedrive, OwnCloud all require storing your data elsewhere.

      BT Sync only syncs data across your devices. It does it really well, utilizing Bittorrent protocols and DHT. It's actually a very useful tool. I use it all the time.

    8. Re:OwnCloud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think so. BT Sync is peer-to-peer, so there's no need to transfer the file to a middle man, and the file can be downloaded out of order.

      If you were to use ownCloud, you'd have to transfer it first to the server (mind the PHP max post size, you may have to adjust it or the upload will fail) and wait for that process to finish before the client could safely download it.

      The other advantage to BTSync is that if the file is available on one or more devices (e.g. if you have two computers that have the file and one missing the file) the client can request chunks from both locations and have a higher aggregate download rate than from a single source.

      OwnCloud has an advantage in that you can run it on normal HTTP/S ports which can help in some corporate environments with strict outbound traffic rules. BTSync has the advantage that you don't need to run your own dedicated server (each client is also a server) and the sharing can be viewed as a mesh network.

      tl;dr:
      OwnCloud is svn
      BTSync is git

  4. How about a comprehensive security probing report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speed is fine, speed is great. The road is the important part.

  5. Comparing LAN to WAN Speeds by MatthiasF · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They compared the transfers between two laptops on the same LAN using a direct P2P client (BitTorrent Sync) and several Internet-reliant sync options, finding the direct file copy was faster. No, duh.

    In other news, you spend less time on an airplane when you take a staycation.

    1. Re:Comparing LAN to WAN Speeds by AceJohnny · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, while they indeed compared two computers on the same LAN, they also included a computer on the internet. Furthermore, One of Dropbox's touted features is that it's able to detect and use peers on a LAN to avoid the unneecssary round trip through the cloud. I don't know about Google Drive, but judging by the results I suspect they can do the same.

      And, more importantly, they compared the other clients on the same setup.

      How you got modded "+4 insightful" is beyond me.

      --
      Misleading titles? Inflammatory blurbs? Keep in mind that Slashdot is a tabloid.
    2. Re:Comparing LAN to WAN Speeds by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      They compared the transfers between two laptops on the same LAN

      a) we don't know whether the two laptops could talk to each other across the LAN - in fact without evidence to the contrary I'd assume they couldn't
      b) Dropbox will sync across the LAN if it can.

      In any case, I'm not sure the LAN/WAN distinction is too relevant here, given that they were using 1gb/s internet connection.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    3. Re:Comparing LAN to WAN Speeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you assume that two laptops on the same LAN can't talk to each other? That's the entire f***ing point of having a LAN... Regardless they measured it locally and through the "cloud."

    4. Re:Comparing LAN to WAN Speeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a) we don't know whether you're a dope or not - in fact without evidence to the contrary I'd assume you are.

    5. Re:Comparing LAN to WAN Speeds by MatthiasF · · Score: 5, Informative

      Maybe because 3-4 people actually read the Sync blog post where it states, and I quote:

      "Our tests were conducted over local LAN – on the same switch – in order to rule out available bandwidth as a limiting factor. It’s important here to note that Dropbox, Google Drive and Microsoft OneDrive all rate-limit uploads and do not fully utilize the 1 Gbps bandwidth available (in regards to the office Internet connection, not the LAN switched). We’re confident that a slower Internet connection would yield similar results."

      In other words, people agreed with me because they knew what I said to be true.

      Not only did they give themselves the preferential treatment of same LAN, they also intentionally adjusted their tests to discount an advantage of a competitor. Again, quoted verbatum from the blog post:

      "Dropbox has a deduplication scheme in place – what this meant for our tests is that even though we deleted the video file from our Dropbox folder, traces of it still remained and Dropbox got ~50% faster at transferring the same video file each subsequent time we uploaded it. To correct for this, we needed a new file that wasn’t bit-for-bit identical to the video file we previously transferred. "

      Why don't you RTFA.

      http://blog.bittorrent.com/201...

    6. Re:Comparing LAN to WAN Speeds by MatthiasF · · Score: 1

      a.) Yes, we do because the blog post says as such.
      b.) True, and that is why they intentionally nerfed the Dropbox test by creating a new random file to not only avoid "deduplication" as they say, but the LAN Sync being available as well (which they do not admit).

      RTFA:
      http://blog.bittorrent.com/201...

    7. Re:Comparing LAN to WAN Speeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't see them intentionally warping the test, to be honest. They test how fast the different file sync services are over LAN, which is a very valid concern, and make sure to transfer a fresh file each time to get a larger sample size. I don't see myself uploading and deleting the same file over and over again, so that's completely irrelevant to such a test. I'm more interested in the result over a large number of attempts and at different times, so I can get a clear picture of how fast the different services are.

      I would like to see a similar test done on cloud storage services, but Sync is not one of them. It's a sync service for your own storage solutions. If you only want to sync files over your own computers and not have it end up on a server you don't have control over, Sync is clearly the superior option both in speed and security.

    8. Re:Comparing LAN to WAN Speeds by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      a.) Yes, we do because the blog post says as such.

      I don't think it's at all clear.

      The company transferred a 1.36 GB MP4 video clip between two Apple MacBook Pros using [...] the Internet connection at its headquarters.

      Sync’s time might seem ridiculously low, almost as if the Internet wasn’t involved at all. You have to remember, however, that BitTorrent’s headquarters has a ridiculous fast connection both downstream and upstream.

      That implies that the LAN wasn't involved, although it's not very clearly stated.

      In any case the blogger repeated the test over the internet and got similar results.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    9. Re: Comparing LAN to WAN Speeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know that Dropbox does LAN syncing, right?

    10. Re:Comparing LAN to WAN Speeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Dropbox has a deduplication scheme in place – what this meant for our tests is that even though we deleted the video file from our Dropbox folder, traces of it still remained and Dropbox got ~50% faster at transferring the same video file each subsequent time we uploaded it. To correct for this, we needed a new file that wasn’t bit-for-bit identical to the video file we previously transferred. "

      Yeah, talk about testing only the parts where you know you can win.
      btsync has this huge problem where files are identified by their filename and size (and possibly modified date). If any one of those changes, the *entire* file is transfered again.
      In practice this means that if you change the filename on that 4GB file or correct a grammar mistake on your 40MB document, all of your connected nodes will start happily downloading the entire thing from scratch.

      To btsync's credit, they do have a much better bandwidth utilization than most other systems since they use TP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M... (which they get for free since they're using bittorrent for the transfers).
      This means that they don't need to throttle their links to avoid congesting the network, which is why they were able to get better speeds than their competitors.

      I use btsync and it works well enough, but I hate their commercial approach to the entire thing. I realize companies have to make money, but the way they're going about things with this project just seems sleazy (as exemplified in TFA).

    11. Re:Comparing LAN to WAN Speeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But I do move and rename stuff. This saves a lot of additional syncing compared with systems that are entirely dependent on the path/filename.

    12. Re:Comparing LAN to WAN Speeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I assume they actually base it on checksums and not file names, so that should not be an issue. TFA talked about changing the data in the file to force the programs to resync the file instead of going on cached data, not renaming the file.

  6. Trickle by Luthair · · Score: 3, Informative

    These programs are designed not to saturate the upload/download pipes ruining the connection for all the users. So congrats, your protocol has all the problems of BitTorrent.

    Ruining the connections since 2001.

    1. Re:Trickle by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Well, quite:

      More specifically, the company conducted a test that shows Sync destroys Google Drive, Microsoft’s OneDrive, and Dropbox.

      And your internet connection at the same time.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    2. Re:Trickle by Bengie · · Score: 5, Informative

      They are not designed to not use all of your bandwidth, it's that they can't. I've tested DropBox, and it breaks up the file into chunks and uploads them synchronously using REST calls. This meant my connection was constantly bouncing between 0% and 100%, causing bursts of packet-loss because it never gave TCP enough time to level out. BitTorrent on the other hand is great at not hosing my connection. I can run it near 100% and it will back-off as it detects latency going up, preempting the need for packet-loss to signal congestion.

    3. Re:Trickle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are not designed to not use all of your bandwidth, it's that they can't.

      Amazing piece of FUD. In dropbox you go to the preferences bandwidth pane and set the maximum bandwidth to be used for download/upload. Just like any other bittorrent client. Saying dropbox is not optimized to not use all the bandwidth is ridiculous. Plus later versions have in theory adaptive limiters, but this is only for people who have no clue on how to type a few numbers about their network.

    4. Re:Trickle by Bengie · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have a 50/50 dedicated fiber connection with a rock solid 0.35ms ping to my ISP and a solid 8ms ping to drop box servers. Why is my connection only doing 10mb/s with DropBox and getting packet-loss, while I can use BitTorrent at 45/45 up & down at the same time and not have loss or latency? DropBox seems to have the bandwidth, but the quick bursts are wrecking havoc with my ISP's traffic shaping via their Cisco router. The way Cisco is calculating the mb/s seems to be via some sliding window, which allows a quick spike of a burst to happen in the first 1/4 of a second, but then clamps down. Because my network latency is so low, the TCP stream can ramp up really fast. Once the Cisco router clamps down on the connection, I'm already uploading nearly 100mb/s and TCP can't back off in time before loss happens.

      The reason loss occurs after the clamping is because my ISP uses small buffers. They don't like buffer bloat. My max latency to my ISP before loss starts to occur is about 10ms. Since the connection is dedicated, and their trunk is sized about 3x more than peak bandwidth, it's normally not an issue.

      This wouldn't be an issue if DropBox transferred the data as a single stream, but instead does a very jarring start/stop cycle, which causes my bandwidth to get very spiky. I'm thinking of enabling traffic shaping on my PFSense box, but I really don't feel like messing with it quite yet.

      I guess the actual problem really is the Cisco router, but DropBox is still incredibly slow.

    5. Re:Trickle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You wouldn't have this problem either if you went to the dropbox preferences, set the maximum transfer rate to 45mb/s (like bittorrent) and prevent it from artificially reaching 100mb so that your cisco router clamps it back. But yeah, it's definitely dropbox the problem. As for comparing a TCP program with bittorrent which only goes to TCP as last resort preferring UDP is a mystery comparison too. That chip on your shoulder must weight a lot.

    6. Re:Trickle by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Why is my connection only doing 10mb/s with DropBox and getting packet-loss, while I can use BitTorrent at 45/45 up & down at the same time and not have loss or latency?

      Maybe your ISP has poor peering to Amazon Web Services?

      the quick bursts are wrecking havoc with my ISP's traffic shaping via their Cisco router.

      Sounds pretty shitty, I don't observe such issues on my VDSL connection (BT Infinity).

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    7. Re:Trickle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are several TCP algorithms for congestion control and various different parameters that can be adjusted, but I have found that TCP Veno works quite well.
      echo veno > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_congestion_control
      As it turns out, the algorithm works well in the face of highly variable congestion along Internet pathways. It also does not interfere with typical algorithms and can coexist nicely. You only need to make the change on the sender side. Most algorithms are studied against systems running the same algorithm. But Veno has also been studies against other congestion algorithms.

    8. Re:Trickle by Bengie · · Score: 1

      My ISP uses Level 3. So whatever connection Level 3 has to Amazon(hint, direct peering). I can upload and download 100% of my line rate all the way to Germany from midwest USA, if that's any indication of the kind of "congestion" I experience.

      7:32p right now

      Tracing route to ec2.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com 54.239.54.28
      over a maximum of 30 hops:

      1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms pfsense.localdomain 192.168.1.1
      2 1 ms 1 ms <1 ms xx.xx.xx.1
      3 1 ms 1 ms 2 ms xxxx [xx.xx.xx.xx]
      4 12 ms 12 ms 11 ms te-9-4.car4.Chicago1.Level3.net 4.71.102.197
      13 110 ms 110 ms 110 ms ae-4-90.edge3.Frankfurt1.Level3.net 4.69.154.199
      14 110 ms 110 ms 111 ms dialup-212.162.19.106.frankfurt1.mik.net 212.162.19.106
      15 109 ms 110 ms 109 ms 54.239.5.82
      16 110 ms 110 ms 110 ms 54.239.5.130
      17 111 ms 110 ms 111 ms 54.239.6.109
      18 110 ms 110 ms 110 ms 54.239.54.28

      Pinging 54.239.54.28
      ...
      Packets: sent=525, rcvd=525, error=0, lost=0 (0.0% loss) in 262.110968 sec
      RTTs in ms: min/avg/max/dev: 109.564 / 110.814 / 111.759 / 0.344

    9. Re:Trickle by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      My ISP uses Level 3

      My ISP uses LINX, level 3 and SFINX however it also has a lot of direct peering with services, such as those from Cloudflare, Google, Amazon and Netflix etc.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    10. Re:Trickle by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Both of those INX's are just Internet Exchanges for peering. Assuming your ISP is very good at peering then all is well. Many ISPs are bad at peering and let some of their connections get congested. Many do this on purpose, because they can control how congested. Since your ISP already uses Level 3, I assume they're quite decent.

  7. How much of the speed advantage is because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No one is using Bit Torrent. Synch at the moment? Dropbox et all are busy serving thousands of users, and Bit Torrent is running this demo. Doesn't seem a realistic comparison

  8. Fancy version of FTP by AlejoHausner · · Score: 0
    You could also install an FTP server on one machine, and log into it from the other, type 'bin', and 'get'. Frankly, this particular feature has been available since the 1980s.

    What will they think of next? Remote desktop? It was called X-windows in the 1980s.

    Kids these days think they invented sex.

    1. Re:Fancy version of FTP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      It was called X-windows in the 1980s,

      That's X Window System to you, bub. That lawn you're on? It's mine. Off.

    2. Re:Fancy version of FTP by AlejoHausner · · Score: 2

      Touche'. Still, I'm amazed that there's a company called logmein that provides remote desktop service on the internet, and that (get this) it works by taking over the host computer's mouse and display! On X-windows (yes, I know) the computer you're logging into (the client) isn't affected visually; the displayed windows all exist as separate entities on the computer requesting the connection (ie the "display server"). Surely that makes a heck of a lot more sense.

    3. Re:Fancy version of FTP by PRMan · · Score: 1

      I think our meetings would be a lot less functional that way though.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    4. Re:Fancy version of FTP by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Let me know how well FTP scales as you add more nodes, and how it allows you to keep your data separate from other people's data while still allowing you to use their node for storage.

    5. Re:Fancy version of FTP by Cramer · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's spelled rsync

    6. Re:Fancy version of FTP by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Let me know how well FTP scales as you add more nodes, and how it allows you to keep your data separate from other people's data while still allowing you to use their node for storage.

      As I recall, it scaled really well in it's prime. Many people setup their own FTP servers for their own uses. It supported seperation of users on systems through credential logins, file permissions etc.

      I didn't like FTP.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    7. Re:Fancy version of FTP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some tool always says this. Aside from the obvious, that when you're dealing with, say, a family with a number of machines, the "log into one machine from the other" thing starts to break down, there's the fact that having the sync take place transparently is actually very useful. And many of these services will automatically sync the photos from your phone as well, which is convenient. But you stick with ftp, if you like it.

    8. Re:Fancy version of FTP by Bengie · · Score: 1

      What if you don't trust root on the FTP server? Sync keeps you safe from that case, with no extra work on your end.

    9. Re:Fancy version of FTP by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      What if you don't trust root on the FTP server?

      If I didn't trust myself, I don't see how Sync would help.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    10. Re:Fancy version of FTP by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Sync supports storing your data on untrusted nodes because of transparent encryption. You even have the option to share your data with certain other people in read-only or read-write. Well, it's designed to support that. I'm not sure if they've enabled it in the interface yet.

    11. Re:Fancy version of FTP by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      I'm being pedantic now for the hell of it...

      Sync supports storing your data on untrusted nodes because of transparent encryption

      So does FTP, anyone can run FTP.

      You even have the option to share your data with certain other people in read-only or read-write.

      So does FTP.

      Well, it's designed to support that.

      So does FTP.

      I still don't like FTP.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  9. Open Source alternative to Bittorrent Sync by gQuigs · · Score: 3, Informative

    is https://ind.ie/pulse/ (was SyncThing).

  10. Am I missing the point? by Arterion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They copied some data across a local network. Then they compared it how long it took to transfer the same data to remote servers across their internet connection? 1.36 GB in 41 seconds is 33 MB/s, which is either extremely underwhelming for local network performance (I suspect a magnetic hard drive bottleneck), or extremely impressive for a fat internet pipe, neither having to do with the software in question.

    --
    "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
    1. Re:Am I missing the point? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      They copied some data across a local network.

      I don't think they did, or at least it's implied - though not very clearly - that they didn't. In any case, the internet connection was 1gb/s, which is practically LAN speed with their gigabit adapters.

      The article's author did a test over the internet and also found that Bittorrent beat the others - but then, the others are probably designed to be more considerate to your internet connection and not clog up your tubes.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    2. Re:Am I missing the point? by MatthiasF · · Score: 2

      No, they literally copied over the LAN and are intentionally being vague to throw people off that fact. The original Sync blog post did not use Sync across the Internet but the Venturebeat author did disclose sharing across the Internet and stated:

      "The transfer process was much longer. Times were in the double digit minutes, and largely depended on what connections my friends had."

      In other words, in real-world scenario using the Internet, Bittorrent's Sync was not any faster than the times posted for the other services.

      This is a terrible hack job by Bittorrent to spread lies and a horrible job by Venture beat repeating them with no critical thought.

      Original Sync Blog post - http://blog.bittorrent.com/201...

    3. Re:Am I missing the point? by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Dropbox, at least, can do LAN syncing between devices. Of course, I didn't read the article, so I have no clue if they had it enabled on the computers so that it could be used, but based on the results, I'd doubt they did.

    4. Re:Am I missing the point? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      33 MB/s is pretty good even for a LAN link. But I think for most users, this may be pretty much irrelevant because for most people, the bottleneck is between your modem and your ISP.

    5. Re:Am I missing the point? by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      Wait, why didn't you include this section?

      "Yet it’s worth noting that Google Drive, OneDrive, and Dropbox still performed worse. They were limited by the same download bandwidth, but the upload section of the process was notably much slower (many ISPs worldwide offer much slower upload speeds than download speeds)."

      So VB's test still gives the prize to sync. It's a bit weird that they didn't publish any times, though.

      Anyway, I'm not saying Sync is obviously better, but your quote misses context that's important. I think this is just another tool in the toolbox.

    6. Re:Am I missing the point? by adolf · · Score: 1

      Indeed.

      To further muddy the waters, DropBox supports (under Windows, at least) what it calls "LAN sync," with the goal of having data traverse LAN-WAN only once, no matter how many LAN clients want that data.

      I do not know if it is default behavior. But I've seen it work just fine.

    7. Re: Am I missing the point? by Arterion · · Score: 1

      You think that would be a standard feature, but apparently it bears special mention.

      I miss the older Foldershare then Live Mesh for that very reason. I think it might have been before "cloud" was a buzzword, and folks still thought about networks and file storage in a traditional way.

      Skydive came out and I was fine with the giveth, but then was the taketh away. I remember being excited about the Live Framework developer API. The ideas presented don't seem especially innovative at the end of 2014, but they were at the time.

      Still, implementation of those ideas is lacking. I can't use my phone apps on my computer, and my tablet and my phone can have the same app, but individual copies of local data. It's rather inconvenient and at times humorous.

      --
      "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
  11. iCloud Drive? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

    The company transferred a 1.36 GB MP4 video clip between two Apple MacBook Pros using two Apple Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet Adapters

    So they're using Apple hardware, but never tested the "new and improved" iCloud Drive?

    I guess that was probably not released when they started their test.... I bet it would be equally slow though (especially since I think that part of iCloud actually runs on Azure).

  12. Turning off congestion control yields fast speed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Duh.

    Of course ignoring congestion control yields fast speeds. .. so long as only a few do it.

  13. Re:Now release the source! by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

    I don't understand why everybody is like, "err, btsync sucks until you show us the source!" The statements about closed source are true, but all the other major options are closed source as well so it's not a good thing to criticize btsync on!

    I tried it out, and I liked it very much. I hit two problems, one of which is easier to solve:
    1) no versioning implemented. The client could get really smart about versioning in a later update. This is primarily why I use dropbox, even on a machine where the files stay local.
    2) my work blocks torrent traffic.

  14. Cloud service bandwidth caps, rsync? by Jumunquo · · Score: 1

    All this has done is catalog what the bandwidth caps for the various cloud services are. The article itself admits that. BitTorrent performance is completely irrelevant.
    A relevant comparison would be against other peer-to-peer transfer utilities like scp and rsync (w/ and w/o -z).

  15. Apples and Oranges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For our next trick we'll compare how long it takes to rip a DVD using the latest i7 to how long it takes to stream the same movie from Youtube, Netflix and Hulu.
    Who gives a fuck??

  16. btsync and large shares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I've been using btsync to share my plex data elsewhere for backups. It works well, but what I've noticed is it slows down a lot when syncing more and more data.

    It started out at 60 or so megabytes a second from a 10TB volume to an empty directory on a system on the local lan. After it passed a few TB, it slowed down to 40 megabytes a second. The last couple of TB took a long while as the transfer was down to about 10 megabytes a second.

    This is still acceptable, because my outbound internet connection isn't that fast, but it does make me wonder about the scalability of btsync. Still, btsync is a winner in my book. It just works.

  17. Infinit by rafalax · · Score: 1

    Infinit is advertising a x23 speed increase on Dropbox on a 2GB file: https://infinit.io/ No comparison with btsync though.

  18. Well of course.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If your company has a 1Gbps D/U, it will be faster to transfer directly through bittorrent sync...

  19. Got to love synthetic tests by JohnStock · · Score: 1

    To out shit products scraping the bottom of the barrel

  20. Encrypted node by chrisvdb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've been using BitTorrent Sync for a year or so now. The main feature that was missing for me was the ability to set up an untrusted node which does not get access to the unencrypted data but can serve as a fast 24/7 proxy and backup system.

    This functionality has now been added, although it's still in beta and only officially available in the API, not in the client... but a very simple hack makes it available in the client. This opens BitTorrent Sync open to 3rd party sync providers or cheap VPS.

    The interface is still a bit quirky and designed for techies, but has also improved over time. Overall very happy with BitTorrent Sync.

  21. Uh, So Whats The Big News Here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Big Deal, Not.

  22. Compression? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The last version I checked, they don't compress the traffic,
    so transferring a huge MP4 (already compressed) is ok,
    but transferring large bulky uncompressed DXF files (3d models in text form) is much much slower than Dropbox, which does a great job of compression.

    Also, moving and renaming files is handled a lot more efficiently by dropbox.
    Last time I tried to change a folder name in btsync, it had to reupload the files all over again.

  23. So... Transfers are faster between fast hardware? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would you have to test this? If you do a data transfer between two known exclusive use machines and compare it to an unknown "cloud" that is shared by millions; is it really news that the exclusive and know machines are faster?

  24. No notification of concurrent modification by pavon · · Score: 2

    I have been using bittorrent sync for about the same amount of time, and the thing that is killing me is that it makes no effort to detect and warn when a file has been modified on multiple computer since the last sync. It just chooses the one that was modified most recently, and silently overwrites the other one. It does create a temporary archive backup of the modified file that was overwritten, but by the time you noticed you have lost data, it can be very difficult to wade through all the archive files on different computers and figure out which ones need to be merged. The resolution to conflicts will always have to be a manual process, but the sooner you know that a conflict occured the easier it is to resolve.

    I've lost track of how many password resets I have had to do because I lost a newly randomly generated password saved to my keypass database, synced across computers.

  25. How secure is that connection string? by rvw · · Score: 0

    BTSync uses a string to connect computers and then sync files. How safe is that? I could start a script that tries to find these strings. If I find them, I can sync all files just like that. While that string is probably more unique than a username / password combination used on Dropbox, I guess Dropbox will see it when there are many failed tries on one username, or many failed tries from one IP. If your just guessing username and password, you can of course change usernames continuously, to avoid testing the same username over and over again. But with BTSync you can go on and on. Is there a security measure against abuse? I've used it, with longer than standard strings, but still don't like this idea.

    1. Re:How secure is that connection string? by pavon · · Score: 1

      Even if BTSync were to process one connection string per CPU clock cycle, it would still take 1e20 years to try all the possible 20-character Base64 strings that BTSync uses by default. If you choose a longer string, then it will take even more time. In otherwords, the standard strings have 120 bits of entropy, and you can increase that to up to 240 bits. This is less than is typically used for encryption these days, but btsync doesn't have to deal with offline attacks.

      Rather than key size, I would be more concerned about whether the client potentially leaks data through timing attacks, or any MITM/sniffing attacks that speed up the cracking faster than brute force.

    2. Re:How secure is that connection string? by omems · · Score: 1

      It's also my understanding that with the newest version, you can specify trusted clients with which to sync, so not just anyone can connect.
      Although, now that I think about it, I'm not sure that couldn't be spoofed if you knew a little bit about the other person.

  26. That isn't open source by pavon · · Score: 1

    That isn't an open source implementation of btsync. It is just an unofficial debian package that installs the official proprietary btsync binary. It makes it easier to install and update btsync on debian based systems, but it is the exact same software that you download from the official site.

  27. Re:Now release the source! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Democrats rape children! Why are you ok with that?

  28. Re:Now release the source! by tepples · · Score: 1

    When you asked your work's IT department why your work has chosen to block BitTorrent Sync traffic and has chosen not to block Dropbox traffic, what reply did you get?

  29. Re:Now release the source! by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

    We're a small company with just one overworked IT guy, so I don't think he was actively checking the logs and monitoring which computers were trying to access torrent ports. I chose not to draw attention to the fact that I was trying to torrent files (regardless of the justification), let alone be a person who was seen as complaining about it. That would raise eyebrows and be sent up the flagpole.

    I ended up using Sync.com, which is a dropbox competitor based in Canada. I'm not naïve enough to think that NSA doesn't have access to their shizz, but at least they don't have Condi on the board. More of a protest vote on my part more than anything.