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Mark Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin At Tsinghua University In Beijing
HughPickens.com writes Abby Phillip reports at the Washington Post that that Mark Zuckerberg just posted a 30-minute Q&A at Tsinghua University in Beijing in which he answered every question exclusively in Chinese — a notoriously difficult language to learn and particularly, to speak. "It isn't just Zuckerberg's linguistic acrobatics that make this a notable moment," writes Philip. "This small gesture — although some would argue that it is a huge moment — is perhaps his strongest foray into the battle for hearts and minds in China." Zuckerberg and Facebook have been aggressively courting Chinese users for years and the potential financial upside for the business. Although Beijing has mostly banned Facebook, the company signed a contract for its first ever office in China earlier this year. A Westerner speaking Mandarin in China — at any level — tends to elicit joy from average Chinese, who seem to appreciate the effort and respect they feel learning Mandarin demonstrates. So how well did he actually do? One Mandarin speaker rates Zuckerberg's language skills at a seventh grader's speech: "It's hard not see a patronizing note in the Chinese audience's reaction to Zuckerberg's Mandarin. To borrow from Samuel Johnson's quip, he was like a dog walking on its hind legs: It wasn't done well, but it was a surprise to see it done at all."
"One Mandarin speaker rates Zuckerberg's language skills at a seventh grader's speech:"
The linked article is headlined "Mark Zuckerberg Speaks Mandarin Like a Seven Year Old." Significant difference between seven years old and a seventh grader.
China and it's totalitarian, authoritarian government and lack of individual rights make great synergy for facebook.com
also: his wife is Chinese
Thank you Dave Raggett
Who gives a shit? Seriously? Mark Zuckerberg did a thing that has nothing to do with tech or anything important, are we going to get reports of him hang gliding or surfing next? Oh boy, a person in the tech world has a reasonably impressive but totally uninteresting life skill, lets make a big deal about it for no reason.
I am a Mandarin speaker. Yes, his accent was horrible. However, this is what impressed me: He understood everything the interviewer asked in one pass. His response was a genuine expression of his thoughts rather than a textbook answer. He did not have to rely on inserting English words. His grammar was basically correct.
If the Chinese language is really such a notoriously difficult language to learn (and to speak) there ought to be no one using it anymore, right?
I dunno about you, but I do think /. has gone way too hyperbole !!
Actually, it is considered a notoriously difficult language for westerners to learn. I don't think that is hyperbole. "The hardest language and nearly impossible to learn" would be hyperbole. As someone who did learn Mandarin and spent a couple years in Asia speaking Mandarin with people on the streets pretty much all day every day, I can tell you it's about as different from English as you can get. Having also studied French, I can tell you it's much more difficult than picking up a Romance language. If you wanted to pick apart a section of the quoted text as inaccurate, it would be "particularly, to speak". You could pick apart the fact misplaced comma, or you could just look directly at his meaning. That implies that of the parts of learning the language, speaking is the most difficult. This couldn't be more wrong for Chinese. If you break language into four tasks: speaking, listening, reading and writing, then speaking is by far the easiest. Reading an writing in Chinese is something that most foreigners I met in Asia never even attempted.
Like the one W had?
http://www.salon.com/2004/10/09/bulge/
They usually dont admit people unless thay have multiple talents. Mark was good an computers, learning languages, and probably a few other things.
If the Chinese language is really such a notoriously difficult language to learn (and to speak) there ought to be no one using it anymore, right?
I dunno about you, but I do think /. has gone way too hyperbole !!
Actually, it is considered a notoriously difficult language for westerners to learn. I don't think that is hyperbole. "The hardest language and nearly impossible to learn" would be hyperbole. As someone who did learn Mandarin and spent a couple years in Asia speaking Mandarin with people on the streets pretty much all day every day, I can tell you it's about as different from English as you can get. Having also studied French, I can tell you it's much more difficult than picking up a Romance language. If you wanted to pick apart a section of the quoted text as inaccurate, it would be "particularly, to speak". You could pick apart the fact misplaced comma, or you could just look directly at his meaning. That implies that of the parts of learning the language, speaking is the most difficult. This couldn't be more wrong for Chinese. If you break language into four tasks: speaking, listening, reading and writing, then speaking is by far the easiest. Reading an writing in Chinese is something that most foreigners I met in Asia never even attempted.
Totally agree. It's the same in reverse too. If you started with Chinese as your native tongue, then romance languages are very difficult too. This is due to the way sentences are constructed. I was doing some translation the other day and found that I often had to reverse the order of different phrases in the sentence to get the sentence to flow. There is one upside of starting with Chinese first and that is understanding the different tones within Chinese. Most of the westerners that I know who is learning or trying to learn Chinese struggle with tones. The words for mother, numb, horse, and to insult have very similar sounds as they are simply the 4 different tones for the same pinyin combination. Most of the time, if a native mandarin speaker says those for words (in mandarin) in quick succession, most westerners wouldn't be able to tell which is which. I know someone will now point out that a lot of Chinese can't distinguish between r and l, so learning Chinese first is not any better. But I want to point out that's because they were taught incorrectly and they think it's the correct pronunciation. Both the r and l sounds exist in mandarin so there is really no reason to get them wrong except if they weren't taught correctly.
Of course, if you learn both languages young enough then both languages are "easy". It's all perspective and when you are trying to learn each of the languages. Therefore, the statement aimed at the western audience is correct, it is notoriously difficult. But if the same statement were aimed at the Chinese, they will laugh mercilessly at you because it's pretty darn easy.
i read she was Chinese somewhere...hmm...
She is a native born American citizen. Her parents came to America from Vietnam. She is ethnically Chinese. Calling her "Chinese" makes as much sense as calling Barack Obama "Kenyan".
If you started with Chinese as your native tongue, then romance languages are very difficult too
I am a Chinese. Mandarin is my mother tongue
I do not know what you mean by "Romance Language" but the western languages, starting from the Latin to its derivatives (Spanish, Italians, Portugese, and French, and in some way in English also) at least, to me, are not difficult to learn
I would agree that any language would be difficult to master (For example: I haven't yet master my own mother tongue, the Mandarin Language, as it is a language with thousands of years of history and the ancient texts were written in a more condensed form) but it shouldn't be difficult to learn any language to the point that one can read, speak and write in that language
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Google is your friend. The Romance languages are those that came from common (everyday/"Vulgar") Latin.
From Wiki:
The five most widely spoken Romance languages by number of native speakers are Spanish (386 million), Portuguese (216 million), French (75 million), Italian (60 million), and Romanian (25 million)
English is not a Romance language (it's derived from Old Low German), but due to many accidents of history, it has accumulated an incredible number of words directly from Romance languages or derived from words in Romance languages (as well as other families of languages).
Hope that helps. You seem to be doing quite well with English! Keep it up. :)
Actually many ethnically Chinese people from Vietnam prefer to call themselves Chinese or Chinese-Vietnamese or Hoa... They often speak Chinese (often Cantonese) and sometime speak Vietnamese poorly if at all and refuse to fully integrate with the local Vietnamese population. Many of them were came to the united states during/after the Vietnam war as they were often the local "capitalists" in the Vietnamese economy (by some measures controlling 70% of the GDP prior to the Vietnam war) and thus were quite unwelcome in the new communist government. Many don't really like to consider themselves Vietnamese at all.
Think of it like people in Quebec holding on to their French heritage. A large percentage of them will call themselves Franco-Canadian or even Québécois rather than be associated with something pan-Canadian associated with the British Crown (and might have even supported the recent succession vote). If you accidentally refer to them as Canadian they will immediately correct you (after apologizing, of course, they are still Canadian after all ;^)
I'm chiming in with some more agreement here. I speak and read in a couple of languages, although I think even seventh graders would be unimpressed. But I'm learning Mandarin now and holy crap. Pitch, inflection, and intonation matter so very much; it's like learning a language and an instrument at the same time. Yes, some hyperbole and of course the OP could have qualified it with "westerners" or some such. But assuming that someone is not a pedant, the statement makes sense. Mandarin is difficult for an English speaker to learn. Of course, assuming someone on /. is not a pedant is kind of stupid.
I haven't used Mandarin since I studied it for two years....5 years ago. However, I've been living in Japan for 3+ years now, and I find Japanese *FAR* worse to learn than Mandarin. Yes, the katakana/hiragana makes reading easier, and yes the range of phonetics is simple for a Westerner. However.... the grammar is just totally bonkers IMO. Chinese and English are at least both Subject-Verb-Object languages, and Mandarin's lack of verb conjugation is a godsend. You can build simplistic English sentences in your mind and translate them piece-by-piece (like shifting data into a memory buffer and multiplexing it ....with Mandarin). The result will usually be "close enough". You can't do this with Japanese.
I think the best Asian language solution would employ the Korean alphabet, Japanese phonetics, and Mandarin grammar. Too bad they all hate each other and would never agree to it. :-/
English is not a Romance language (it's derived from Old Low German), but due to many accidents of history, it has accumulated an incredible number of words directly from Romance languages or derived from words in Romance languages
After the Norman invasion, English barely hung onto its Germanic roots. So many English words have a Latin heritage, it has become something of a hybrid.
For non-native English speakers reading this who aren't familiar with its history, English is a blend of about five different languages: Old Celtic, Roman Latin, Old Low-German, Old Norse and Norman French, along with a sizable number of Greek, Arabic and [recently] Spanish loanwords.
Old English is the name for English after the infusion of Old Low-German. Middle English is the name for English after the infusion of Norman French. Modern English is what developed after the Renaissance.
The closest living language to Old English is Frisian, which is still spoken in small parts of the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark. Here is an example of it.
A guy worth many billions of dollars can pay for someone to teach them a language, and has time to learn the language. Who'da thunk it possible? What a grand and glorious day for all of the people of the world.. er wait a minute...
The proceeding message was brought to you by a cynical old guy who learned to read/write and speak 2 1/4th additional languages (German, Spanish *and currently working on Russian*) on his own time without billions of dollars to do so. All while raising a kid as a single parent and working full time. Sorry, he's nothing special in terms of intelligence and definitely lacking in morals. Being high on his ego does nothing for me.. Next!
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
I know someone will now point out that a lot of Chinese can't distinguish between r and l, so learning Chinese first is not any better. But I want to point out that's because they were taught incorrectly and they think it's the correct pronunciation. Both the r and l sounds exist in mandarin so there is really no reason to get them wrong except if they weren't taught correctly.
Thank you. Someone who actually knows. I've always been extremely annoyed and insulted when people use the tired old joke of "Herro. I rike you velly much." in performing a caricature of a Chinese person, entirely ignorant of the fact that Chinese has a clear distinction between the r and l sounds.
Factoid: It is the Japanese whose language cannot properly distinguish between r's and l's.
"The best classroom is the bedroom."
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
"mei guo ren"
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
To borrow from Samuel Johnson's quip, he was like a dog walking on its hind legs: It wasn't done well, but it was a surprise to see it done at all
Hmm. Well, few Chinese speakers ever learn to speak English very well either. Not without intensive, lengthy immersion, anyway. But it's no longer socially acceptable to make fun of them for it, nor very logical, for that matter.
Wow. [White] Anglo guy come to China and speaks Mandarin ("Holly Shit! Look, THE DOG'S DOING CALCULUS!!11"), but a Chinese tech CEO (Jack Ma? Charles Chao? Robin Li? pick one) coming to The USA and speaking English in a meeting... well, obviously that's not news-report worthy. Hell, everyone important in the world speaks English without question, right? And, if not - what's their excuse??
Holly crap Anglo world, get over yourselves, will you? Of course Mark Zuckerburg speaks Chinese... in China. What would we expect him to speak, French?? Notice how everybody focusing on how he spoke, rather than what he said.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over, and rummages through their pockets for loose grammar. - Paraphrase of a quote by James Davis Nicoll
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
The former PM of Australian Kevin Rudd could also speak Mandarin. During one diplomatic spat, the Chinese embassy reminded him that:
"To speak Chinese is not to know China. Many examples can be found of people who speak Mandarin to a high level but who do not understand how China works. They may have learned their Chinese shut up in their study reading the Analects."
I think the Chinese regard this as an irreverent amusement more than anything meaningful
If you break language into four tasks: speaking, listening, reading and writing, then speaking is by far the easiest.
I'd say that depends on what you consider "reading and writing". For Westerners, Mandarin is difficult to speak and listen to because of the tones--it takes a lot of practice for them to pronounce the tones properly, and also a lot of practice to distinguish the tones. Reading and writing is difficult because of the large number of characters that need to be memorized. However, if you're allowed to have computer assistance, reading and writing becomes much easier; I'd say easier than speaking and listening. You can easily look up a word in an online dictionary, and when typing, the IME will present you a list of possible characters, and you choose the one you want. The latter is a huge simplification, since you don't have to remember exactly how to write a character; you just need to have a general idea of what it looks like, and the IME will take care of the details. This is even affecting the current generation of Chinese people... it's not uncommon for even a college-educated person to draw a blank on how to hand-write a character: "Character Amnesia"