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Employers Worried About Critical Thinking Skills

Nerval's Lobster writes: Every company needs employees who can analyze information effectively, discarding what's unnecessary and digging down into what's actually useful. But employers are getting a little bit worried that U.S. schools aren't teaching students the necessary critical-thinking skills to actually succeed once they hit the open marketplace. The Wall Street Journal talked with several companies about how they judge critical-thinking skills, a few of which ask candidates to submit to written tests to judge their problem-solving abilities. But that sidesteps the larger question: do schools need to shift their focus onto different teaching methods (i.e., downplaying the need for students to memorize lots of information), or is our educational pipeline just fine, thank you very much?

31 of 553 comments (clear)

  1. What is critical thinking? by magarity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To way too many people "critical thinking" seems to just mean criticizing the establishment just because it's the establishment.

    1. Re:What is critical thinking? by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 5, Insightful

      IMO, the fact that the establishment is the establishment should be reason enough to subject them to constant questioning and criticism. Nobody in authority should be able to do so much as fart on the job being expected to justify their actions -- in front of a jury if necessary.

    2. Re:What is critical thinking? by LifesABeach · · Score: 4, Funny

      Is this the excuse to bring in more Student Visa types for certain companies to profit by?

    3. Re:What is critical thinking? by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wouldn't be surprised, but we could fix it by refusing to let corporations sponsor people for visas.

    4. Re:What is critical thinking? by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      To way too many people "critical thinking" seems to just mean criticizing the establishment just because it's the establishment.

      or "You're wrong because your way doesn't use the new shiny I use but some old thing ..."

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    5. Re:What is critical thinking? by ChumpusRex2003 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Which is exactly why the "establishment" has been trying to ban it.

      No, really! The Republican party had the opposition of "teaching of higher-order thinking skills, critical thinking skills and similar programs" in schools written in their platform document as one of their policy aims.

      Wash post

    6. Re:What is critical thinking? by mtrachtenberg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Way too many people don't realize that our current economic and political system would not survive if critical thinking skills became commonplace.

      We are destroying our own planet in the name of making 0.01% wealthy, and most of us, most of the time, are perfectly content to participate in the process in any way that pays decently and offers "interesting" work.

    7. Re:What is critical thinking? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actual critical thinking is trickier to define.

      One nice thing about "critical thinking" is that there are SO MANY definitions to choose from. The Wikipedia Page contains nine different definitions, many of them mutually incompatible. My favorite is that critical thinking is "the commitment to the social and political practice of participatory democracy". What does that even mean? Is it really something that our schools should be teaching?

      Whatever "critical thinking" is, it is clear that the people calling for more of it, without first figuring out what it is, probably aren't using it.

    8. Re:What is critical thinking? by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The idea that the Wall Street Journal and the corporations they represent are worried about "critical thinking skills" is just laughable. Those kinds of corporations actively discourage independent thinking. They want everyone to be a trained monkey so that they can devalue your labor and replace you easily.

      The LAST thing they want are people with hard to replace cognitive skills or tribal knowledge.

      They want COGS.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    9. Re:What is critical thinking? by Oligonicella · · Score: 4, Informative

      Critical thinking would preclude using quotes on a highly doctored phrase. The actual follows:

      "We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the studentâ(TM)s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."

      In other words, they don't mean what you attempted to portray them to mean.

    10. Re:What is critical thinking? by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a good question, but I don't share your dismissal that it's just, "criticizing the establishment just because it's the establishment."

      As someone with experience hiring/managing/firing people, I think there is something to the criticism that our schools don't prepare people for the need of critical thinking in the "real world", and it's a criticism that I've made many times. As I see it, it's very common to see workers in the position of having been given instructions on how to deal with a problem, and then encountering a situation where those instructions don't apply. How does the worker respond?

      In my experience, very often the worker will just follow the instructions anyway, even if they notice that they're doing something that makes no sense and will obviously cause problems. A fair amount of the time-- again, at least in my experience-- workers will follow the instructions up until a point, figure out that they can't proceed, and then do some other things that also don't make sense, and then pretend that they've finished the job. Every once in a while, if someone is smart, they'll stop and ask for further guidance, but that's rare because nobody likes to admit that they don't know the answer. Even more rarely, someone will actually come up with a comprehensive solution that actually solves the problem.

      And really, all that is just one symptom. Another symptom is the extent to which people will come to work, do exactly what they've been asked to do, and nothing more. Often, there's no curiosity about the role that they're playing within the company, about how their role could be expanded or refined, or somehow changed. Even the better employees are generally those who just follow instructions, and those people rarely seem to grasp why they were provided those specific instructions, let alone figure out a better set of instructions for themselves. And if they had come up with a better solution, they rarely suggest it to their boss.

      So what is "critical thinking" in this context? I think it involves "problem solving", which might be no less vague. It involves a sort of curiosity, to want to know what's actually going on, and why those things are going on. I'm not sure what else...

      But school often doesn't prepare us for that. We're trained to sit down, shut up, do exactly what we're told and no more. Don't ask questions. Don't imagine that you might be able to come up with a better solution. Just do what you're told, and don't think too much about it.

    11. Re:What is critical thinking? by kqs · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the studentâ(TM)s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."

      We shouldn't challenge student's fixed beliefs? Or undermine parental authority? Those sound like usual and desired outcomes of critical thinking skills.

      Outcome-Based Education means, as far as I know, "teaching; then testing for those skills". It's not perfect (nothing is) but I'm not sure what the complaint is.

      And I'll admit that "focus on behavior modification" sounds like a code phrase. You seem to like this statement; could you translate it into language that I can understand? Because you complained about the interpretation but did not explain how that interpretation doesn't come from those words. Actually, that paragraph sounds like it was written by people who have no idea what "Higher Order Thinking Skills" or "Outcome-Based Education" mean but are pretty sure they're designed to turn kids against their parents somehow? Or am I mis-interpreting it too?

    12. Re:What is critical thinking? by Tyler+Durden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sure. But the problem is that far too many people who question established institutions or doctrines refuse to listen when they get answers.

      --
      Happy people make bad consumers.
    13. Re:What is critical thinking? by akozakie · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Ok... Now please explain what that huge difference you percieve is, the one that warrants the use of the words "highly doctored". Because to me this looks like just a longer version of the same thing. "Don't teach them to think, teach them to accept whatever the parents and the church want them to". Quite hard for me to find any redeeming aspect of that line. It's just a combination of catering to not-so-bright parents afraid of losing authority because of their own stupidity and to everyone in power, political, religious or any other, as dumber people are easier to control.

    14. Re:What is critical thinking? by akozakie · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nah, you're wrong, thinking black-and-white. That's just a case of optimization error. They most definitely do want people with good critical thinking skills, just not too many - just enough to fill the right positions. They simply missed the golden ratio, too many people are on the "herd" education track. The positions are filled by idiots and companies lose money. They just assumed the "right" group is big enough to support their growth and they were wrong.

  2. Too Late by sexconker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The people doing the hiring don't have the critical thinking skills necessary to identify people worth hiring.
    If you're a retard, just apply everywhere you can and be polite and enthusiastic - you'll get an offer.
    If you're not a retard, apply everywhere that may interest you and treat the interview in reverse - answer their questions but make sure you ask your own to assess if you want to work there or not.

  3. Bennett to the rescue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Easy solution: Hire clones of Bennett Hasselton. He spends 10s of hours a week solving the hard issues facing the world such as distributed social networks and the optimal queuing for ice lines at Burning Man.

    1. Re:Bennett to the rescue! by Razed+By+TV · · Score: 4, Funny

      This Bennett Hasselton thing has gotten out of hand enough to become a meme. Now I have to read his name when he isn't writing some clickbait article. I'm done with Slashdot.

  4. Want Critical Thinking? Fix the Public Schools by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The government-run schools still run on a nineteenth century industrial paradigm designed to take children and churn out standardized, obedient, punctual factory workers. Fix that first if you care about kids getting critical thinking skills.

    1. Re:Want Critical Thinking? Fix the Public Schools by waspleg · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Except they still want standardized, punctual, obedient, docile workers that will take substandard wages and living conditions while thanking their overlords that they're not homeless.

      It's even easier when you flood the market (see Google/FaceCrook manufactured tech worker shortage for details).

    2. Re:Want Critical Thinking? Fix the Public Schools by s.petry · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Exactly this! People forget that in the 1930s the US adopted the Prussian education system and dumped the classical education system for exactly this reason. What I find at least as interesting is that Germany followed suit much much later. Germany has gone from one of the best educated societies to as bad as the US in about 1/2 the time. Perhaps due to smaller scale, or perhaps because the implementation in the US was progressively implemented and the result exported to Germany.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    3. Re:Want Critical Thinking? Fix the Public Schools by tomhath · · Score: 4, Insightful

      schools still run on a nineteenth century industrial paradigm

      It's worse than that. It's okay for a school to spend extra time and money on slow students, but getting extra resources for top performers is discrimination.

    4. Re:Want Critical Thinking? Fix the Public Schools by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Having done time in a "gifted and talented" program in elementary school, I think the best thing the schools can do for top performers is give 'em a library card. Turn 'em loose once they know how to read and work with a card catalog and a search engine. Smart kids don't need to socialize with kids their own age. They need to socialize with the adults they'll eventually become.

    5. Re:Want Critical Thinking? Fix the Public Schools by PvtVoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Compulsory public education is a mass violation of individual rights (those of the students compelled to attend).

      It's finally happened: whackjob libertarians have come full circle and are nicely in alignment with the Taliban.

      Education is a civil right, which is why girls in fundamentalist Muslim societies are risking their lives to access it. Compulsory education doesn't violate children's civil rights, it ensures those rights, even if it is parents who want to deprive their own children of the right to an education. You have a right to be an ignorant asshole if you like. You do not have the right to force your own ignorance onto your children.

  5. Figure out what the boss would do yourself by jimbodude · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think, ultimately, what critical thinking means is to internalize the ideology of your employer, i.e. you're hired to make decisions that account for everything that fits your employer's methods and goals. This is necessary because there are many, many minute decisions for the employee to make that the employer simply cannot dictate to the employee in every case. The book "Disciplined Minds" called this ideological discipline, and discussed it at length in terms of professional level work, where the professional is trusted to maintain the company ideology within the narrow range of creativity defined by their job. Makes sense to me.

  6. Be careful what you wish for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    An increase in critical thinking skills leads to:

    Contract renegotiations in which the employer is expected to pay more.
    High employee turnover, since the second you stop treating them like a valued employee they will begin looking for another job elsewhere.
    Resistance to overtime and an insistence on work/life balance.
    General insubordination when the employee realizes he's smarter than his boss.

  7. Shift in priorities by fey000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Perhaps it's time to downvalue memory and detail retention?
    With the internet always available, knowing what to do seems to be the key to success, while figuring out how to do it can be achieved with a quick search (I personally start with wikipedia). What cannot be found on wikipedia is how to model a problem such that it can be deconstructed into smaller pieces. That's where a broad and comprehensive education comes in. I'm all for requiring less memory intensive tasks, and more 'from-start-to-finish' problem solving tasks that require active creativity and input.

    As for critical thinking, hell yes. The world as a whole can only benefit from critical thinking and questioning beliefs. Stop with the 'listen and believe', start with the 'independently verify'. This would help in matters ranging from 'whom can I trust with my life savings?' to 'what political candidate isn't a twisted sadist lying bastard hellbent on screwing the whole country?'.
    And to sweeten the bargain, once the citizenry starts practising this type of behaviour, politicians and corporations will have to follow suit if they wish to retain their voters/consumers.

  8. teachers teaching teachers by Twillerror · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My problem with school is it always felt like teaching too abstractly. A certain level is good and I do want people to learn to innovative, but I do not think there is enough application.

    Don't teach calculus, teach engineering. I feel like i spent months doing super complex math that I wouldn't even use as a rocket scientist. I would have loved to predict planetary motion than solving random math problems for hours and hours only to never use those skills.

    The real world is generally open book. If I forget how to solve an equation I look up a solution on the internet or even my old math text books. I think if kids learn how to solve problems vs solving problems we'd be in a better place. I'd rather just give kids a problem and help them solve it vs give them a predefined example and make them solve it correctly the first time or get an F.

  9. Critical thinking by ledow · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The problem with critical thinking is that it makes people... critical.

    It's nonsensical to do an awful lot of things that the average business will do. Critical thinking questions that. Rightly so, but that's not compatible with the way many do business.

    And I dispute that you can "teach" critical thinking. You can expose students to it, and ask them to practice it, but teaching it is another matter.

    I work in schools, including private schools. The difference is clear - private schools take no shit and make the kids work at learning - by rote, critical thinking, free-form learning and even attaching themselves to the IT guy outside of lessons to "help out" if they are keen geeks. They allow this, and encourage this, and aren't constrained by what's on some table of what must be learned.

    They also know that they are there for the children, not solely to get "Five A-C's" so that the league tables look good to next year's parents.

  10. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  11. Re:Gore to the Rescue by drooling-dog · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can tell a lot about a person (or political party) by whom they choose to ridicule, and why. Gore never said he invented the Internet, but rather that he was instrumental in its creation. And it was quite true. This is what Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf had to say about the matter:

    Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development... No one person or even small group of persons exclusively "invented" the Internet. It is the result of many years of ongoing collaboration among people in government and the university community. But as the two people who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the Internet work, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's contributions as a Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of time.

    So the kids in the back of the class are laughing and shooting spitballs at the smart kid. It's Junior High all over again.