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A Low Cost, Open Source Geiger Counter (Video)

Sawaiz Syed's LinkedIn page says he's a "Hardware Developer at GSU [Georgia State University], Department of Physics." That's a great workplace for someone who designs low cost radiation detectors that can be air-dropped into an area where there has been a nuclear accident (or a nuclear attack; or a nuclear terrorist act) and read remotely by a flying drone or a robot ground vehicle. This isn't Sawaiz's only project; it's just the one Timothy asked him about most at the recent Maker Faire Atlanta. (Alternate Video Link)

16 of 46 comments (clear)

  1. Slashdot jumps the shark... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Submitting somebody's LinkedIn profile as a news story must be either a slow news day or a new low in qualitiy standards.

    1. Re:Slashdot jumps the shark... by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      Look again, links to the video are at end of news story; the linkedin profile link at beginning is not the main story

  2. More info? by Change · · Score: 1

    Is there a project page somewhere with more details?

  3. If you are planning on dropping them... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    Does radiation detection(with actual accuracy, linearity, and repeatability, not just a quick demonstration that you can add some noise to a webcam by pointing a small sealed source at it) have currently good, or at least promising for the not too distant future, solid state options?

    I'd imagine that for cost, robustness, and duration on battery power, the presence of little gas filled tubes, some with fairly delicate internal structure, that require a high voltage power supply is a necessary evil at best. In the case of a scintillation counter, the photomultiplier tube would be a similar headache.Are there better behaved options?

  4. geiger counters vs. survey meters by iggymanz · · Score: 2

    Geiger counters are great for prospecting for uranium or looking for any residual contamination after being in a hot site. However, they will be easily overloaded in a nuclear disaster area and could even give a very low rad reading while you are getting a maiming or lethal dose. What you need is called a "survey meter', and they do NOT work on the same principles as a G-M tube. But I daresay this guy will need a different type of electronics to make a survey meter that could be dropped in, your normal SOC and microprocessors will go apeshit in a rad environment

    1. Re:geiger counters vs. survey meters by eclectro · · Score: 1

      your normal SOC and microprocessors will go apeshit in a rad environment

      And why you would lead shield the SOC heavily.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    2. Re:geiger counters vs. survey meters by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      Absolutey false, stop spreading nonsense you made up between your ears. You don't know how a G-M tube works, it does NOT output current proportional to events or energy. When saturated it will "fire" at a very slow rate, and moreover have a drastically shortened lifespan.

      What would you shield with, an absurd amount of lead? Nonsense, instead rad hardened electronics should be ( and ARE) used.

      A G-M detector wouldn't be able to detect neutrons, without a huge "rem ball", yet another reason a G-M based detector shouldn't be used

    3. Re:geiger counters vs. survey meters by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      the amount of shielding needed would make device bulky and/or heavy, that's why special rad hardened electronics are instead used for such things

  5. Re:2015 aint far away by ArcadeMan · · Score: 2

    Don't worry, in 2015 Slashdot will finally stop using Flash video. They're switching to RealVideo.

  6. Nothing new, original or really low cost by NuclearCat · · Score: 1

    Looks like typical geiger tube used, and typical circuit for it. What's "new" or "original" there? And definitely not low cost stuff, but poorly built (all that hanging wires).
    Also his microcontroller memory most probably will fail on serious radiation, and if not stop working, then may give invalid data.
    I understand detecting alpha particles in the tin can over FET transistor can be MUCH cheaper than those (but more for alpha, again), and similar original ideas.

  7. Better solutions by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've been building geiger counters as a hobby for the past couple of years. I was consulting with some people in Japan right after Fukishima helping to build reliable detectors.

    Geiger Muller tubes require a specific "plateau" of voltage to get consistent results. Too low and you're not picking up much radiation, too high and you get spurious results and can burn out the tube. The correct voltage varies with individual tubes.

    This isn't normally a problem, except that there's a glut of surplus Russian geiger tubes on the market right now with unknown provenance and unknown parameters. Unless you calibrate each tube to find the plateau voltage, and unless you calibrate the resulting counter with a known source, the data you get will have no predictive value.

    It's straightforward for a hobbyist to put together a project using one of these tubes and get it to click in the presence of radiation, and this makes a fine project for electronics learning, but you have to take further steps to get a reliable instrument. No one ever does this. The circuits I've seen have an unregulated high-voltage proportional to the battery voltage - it gets lower over time as the battery runs down. The voltage is chosen from the tube spec sheet, instead of determining the correct voltage for the tube. Circuits have design flaws such as using zener diodes for regulation, but not allowing enough current through the diode for proper function. And so on.

    I've seen lots of these hobbyist projects in the past few years, especially since Fukishima. They're fine projects and well-intentioned, but generally not of any practical use.

    Does radiation detection(with actual accuracy, linearity, and repeatability, not just a quick demonstration that you can add some noise to a webcam by pointing a small sealed source at it) have currently good, or at least promising for the not too distant future, solid state options?

    Virtually any semiconductor will detect radiation. What you want is a semiconductor with a large capture aperture(*), which is the area through which the radiation passes. A 2n2222 transistor will detect radiation quite well, but it's capture area is tiny and won't see much of the radiation (saw the top off of a metal-can version and use a charge amplifier).

    Power transistors such as the 2n3055 have large silicon dies and therefore larger apertures - as much as a square centimeter - but this is also quite small for capture.

    The modern equivalent is to use a big diode such as a PIN diode. These can be quite large, but also expensive for the hobbyist.

    A GM tube has a capture area which is the cross sectional area of the tube. These can be made quite large; and as a result can be made quite sensitive to the amount of radiation flux in the area. Hobbyists can also make their own tubes with enormous capture areas - it's not very difficult.

    Large diodes are available for detecting radiation, but a GM tube is simple and can be easily made with a very large capture aperture. Also, GM tube their capture efficiency (the percent of radiation that gets in which is is actually detected) can be higher than the diode solution.

    (*) There's capture aperture and detection efficiency. GM tubes have an efficiency of about 10%, meaning that only 10% of the radiation that gets into the tube is detected. Diodes have similar efficiencies, depending on the photon energy and thickness of the silicon die.

    1. Re:Better solutions by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the explanation, very helpful.

      Are there any issues with silicon solar cells that make them (protected against visible light, obviously) unsuitable? Compared to power silicon or anything for computation you can get enormous area for relatively little money.

    2. Re:Better solutions by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 3, Informative

      Are there any issues with silicon solar cells that make them (protected against visible light, obviously) unsuitable? Compared to power silicon or anything for computation you can get enormous area for relatively little money.

      Huh. I hadn't thought of that. A quick google search shows that solar cells can be used as radiation detectors, and they generally have large capture areas. I'll have to try this out.

      This looks like a good background document for detecting radiation using semiconductors.

      This is the type of amplifier you need as a 1st stage in your detector, should you want to build your own. (Google "Charge Amplifier" for more info.)

      The radiation comes in as quick pulses (3 us or so in my circuits), so normal incident light shouldn't interfere with the detection. You could perhaps get both power and detection from the same cell.

      I've been interested in detecting not only the radiation, but the direction it came from. A 3-d array of detectors with an incidence/correlation circuit can give a general idea of the direction of the source, relative to the detector. I haven't done this yet due to the complexity and expense of the detectors, but solar cells being cheap and easily available I might just try this out. Hmmm...

      Thanks for the suggestion.

    3. Re: Better solutions by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Would you be able to compensate for poor linearity with a hybrid approach involving a silicon detector and a layer of one of the formulations used in scintillation counters?

      I'm thinking by analogy to the approach for making 'white' LEDs: the output of the LED alone is atrociously unsuitable, so you add a phosphor blob that absorbs some of the output and emits at enough other energy levels to fill in something resembling actual white light.

      Would a silicon detector, with a layer of scintillation material chosen for good performance in areas that the silicon doesn't cover applied on top, potentially provide a more adequate result?

  8. Re: A New High by gigne · · Score: 1

    is there some kind of confirmation algorithm he could help us with?

    --
    Signature v3.0, now with 42% less memory usage.
  9. link to video that works? by Cito · · Score: 1

    Doesn't work on android tablet, who still uses flash anyhow?