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Days After Shooting, Canada Proposes New Restrictions On and Offline
New submitter o_ferguson writes As Slashdot reported earlier this week, a lone shooter attacked the war memorial and parliament buildings in Ottawa, Canada on Wednesday.
As many comments predicted, the national government has seized this as an opportunity to roll out considerable new regressive legislation, including measures designed to* increase data access for domestic intelligence services, institute a new form of extra-judicial detention, and, perhaps most troubling, criminalize some forms of religious and political speech online. As an example of the type of speech that could, in future, be grounds for prosecution, the article mentions that the killer's website featured "a black ISIS flag and rejoiced that 'disbelievers' will be consigned to the fires of Hell for eternity." A government MP offers the scant assurance that this legislation is not "trauma tainted," as it was drafted well prior to this week's instigating incidents. Needless to say, some internet observes remain, as always, highly skeptical of the manner in which events are being portrayed.
(Please note that some articles may be partially paywalled unless opened in a private/incognito browser window.)
What does Bennett Haselton think about these developments? I can't form an opinion until he weighs in.
Honestly there's no way that this legislation passes the Oakes test. Section 1 allows for limitations, but not like this.
Restrict freedom, that'll make them stop trying to take it all away...
Not really sure why I should go to the trouble of properly formatting with paragraph tags, italics and footnotes (using Slashdot's own markup conventions) just to have the editors strip it all out again before pushing to the front page. If you want to optimize for mobile, just remove the option to use markup tags in the first place.
- In Soviet Korea, only old people loose all their bases to Natalie Portman's petrified hot grits overlords.
So, they've said that they knew something like this was going to happen eventually.. If they knew it was going to happen eventually, they should have planned for it. And, if they were happy with the security measures before, why do they need to change them now?
Let's keep this in context.. One guy, seemingly acting alone, shot a few people. Unfortunately he did it on government land, so the instant response is 'Terrorism'.
One guy (well, two if you count our PM), screwing with our freedoms.
One begins to wonder which of the three possibilities is accurate... coincidence, waited for such an event, or furnished the event.
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
i want all the muslims out and an that religion
its the source of all the fucking evil on this world
One lone whackjob is now poised to destroy the liberty of an entire country. He didn't even have to get a high body count.
If I was a bit more cynical I would think some people had these waiting for the right time. A perfect chance to tighten the fences keeping the citizens in check.
I think that mental instability and social issues is at the heart of this tragedy, not terrorism nor insufficient power to monitor or detain. He actively tried to be detained, to no avail, and made himself well enough known to the authorities.
Buff said
If speech leads to people killing others - sure, restrict it.
Can we throw everyone in the South in jail now? Oh wait, Canada. Darn.
Seriously, this is just nuts. Are people really this easily scared into giving ground on basic rights?
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Its introduction was obviously waiting for a trauma to capitalize on.
Punish the citizens and ignore the causes!
Gonna get me some of that sweet Patriot Action up in Canada now!
And all this simply proves just how deluded these terrorists truly are. The deaths of our soldiers is tragic, but do they really think bumping off some of our politicians will get under Canadian's skin? I think not. We might even thank them.
By the way, you are a bigot if you have noticed that the perpetrator is, yet again, a Muslim.
Just so we're clear.
This is not some random thing. The authoritarians are scared of the internet, and they have to sell the *war*. The work of the propagandist is never done.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Is Canada going to create a US-style Patriot Act? hahahahaha. freedom is a dated concept apparently.
Hey Canada, It's America,
We gave our guys all these fancy abilities. Well, they took them and we didn't complain, which I guess is the same thing. Anyway, they haven't actually managed to CATCH anyone yet. Well, they've found some impressionable people with mental issues, chatted with them online, gave them a plan, weapons for the plan, talked them into it, and then instead of just getting them some mental help they "caught them" so they could tell us what a good job they were doing....
Never mind that I could bring my city to it's knees with $100 and a trip to Home Depot. We're kind of wondering if there are any actual real Terrorists out there at all. They're probably bogarting all the Ebola. I mean, we've got deranged people with guns but those are impossible to find beforehand and so far we just clean up after them and use them to pass new laws.
Don't fall for it. Sincerely,
Americans
If you don't care about constitutionality, you prohibit your legal draughtsmen from reporting on it, and you pass what you want. It's up to your opponents to find a good test case, and figure out how to pay for a challenge when they don't have standing.
davecb@spamcop.net
Well, it was very lear the Patriot Act was drafted well in advance too.
ONE person dies and they go full retard? WTF? This was one guy with a gun. It's no reason to engage in national hysterics. They have managed to outdo us in US by a country mile.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
No, we aren't. But our government, like most governments, couldn't care less about what we want when they see an opportunity to extend their power.
Under the table Winston's feet made convulsive movements. He had not stirred from his seat, but in his mind he was running, swiftly running, he was with the crowds outside, cheering himself deaf. He looked up again at the portrait of Big Brother. The colossus that bestrode the world! The rock against which the hordes of Asia dashed themselves in vain! He thought how ten minutes ago -- yes, only ten minutes -- there had still been equivocation in his heart as he wondered whether the news from the front would be of victory or defeat. Ah, it was more than a Eurasian army that had perished! Much had changed in him since that first day in the Ministry of Love, but the final, indispensable, healing change had never happened, until this moment.
The voice from the telescreen was still pouring forth its tale of prisoners and booty and slaughter, but the shouting outside had died down a little. The waiters were turning back to their work. One of them approached with the gin bottle. Winston, sitting in a blissful dream, paid no attention as his glass was filled up. He was not running or cheering any longer. He was back in the Ministry of Love, with everything forgiven, his soul white as snow. He was in the public dock, confessing everything, implicating everybody. He was walking down the white-tiled corridor, with the feeling of walking in sunlight, and an armed guard at his back. The longhoped-for bullet was entering his brain.
He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.
Need Mercedes parts ?
and politics do not mix.
He was doing a ceremonial guard duty, as an honour. He probably didn't expect to be shot in the back.
The operational bases were on moderate alert, but apparently the PM didn't think he or anyone else needed to be careful...
davecb@spamcop.net
Specifically the "Reform Party" extending their power. Yes, my friends, we to have a Canadian Reform Party, and it's way farther to the right than Ross Perot ever was. They did a hostile takeover of the Conservatives, and now run the place.
davecb@spamcop.net
This summery is appalling.
The bill in question Bill C-13 was introduced almost a month ago and passed two readings in parliament before the attack. Canada has been debating this bill in parliament and in the media for some time. I don't agree with this bill, but to label it a reaction to the shooting is completely wrong. Especially bad is the fact that a quick google search would have been enough to identify the mistake.
http://openparliament.ca/bills/41-2/C-13/
Wow. It's like a different language, but in English.
No doubt. Legislation is written all the time and filed away until the public is sufficiently swept away by momentary passion. In the US gun control proponents have cabinets full of bills they pull out, like ghouls, every time there's a school shooting, just as the government has legislation that trims away privacy rights ready to go the next time the head-loppers hit the news.
"disbelievers will be consigned to the fires of Hell for eternity"
INPPE (I'm no Papal Emissary), but from cursory knowledge of common religions, such a statement not exactly new or unique.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hell :)
It worked so well in the United States that Canada has to follow suite in one more lock-step Me-Taoism.
They've ALWAYS had a draft like that. And any excuse will do to try to push it through.
If there is no excuse, try to push it through anyway.
It's not a conspiracy. It's not a coincidence. They are not waiting for or furnishing events.
They see such events as INEVITABLE. It is a part of their view of reality. It is their life philosophy.
Their BELIEF SYSTEM.
They think they're the good guys.
And once you look around, you'll notice that in other groups of people as well.
Gun nuts really do believe that government is after their guns.
Rich people really do believe that poor people are all lazy.
Hippies really do believe that all people are good, just misunderstood.
Justin Bieber fans really believe that he can sing.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
I figured they'd wait until next week before the Harper regime tried a `Patriot Act'-style takeover of Canadians' rights.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
Guy was a crackhead not a terrorist, a man with no plan other than death by cop. If he wanted to shoot up Parliament he wouldn't have shot the soldier.
Nobody would listen to him so he came up with some topical way to make them.
On the other hand, if the purpose of the legislation is to reduce senseless deaths, it would be much more effective to simply outlaw driving by private citizens.
Cheers, Bruce.
Bruce A. Knack
Silicon Surfers
That's the official definition of the language of Canada, the Canadian.
Just like that, the terrorists won....
And another sad part is that when I say that, people are actually going to think of the guy who ran in with the gun, i'm not.
They used the guy with the gun as an opportunity for their terrorist attack on your freedoms with something they were already trying to push though that would have never made it if it were to ever reach the light of day under a rational population.
Now the question really becomes both to Canada and the US, how long till you finally oust the attackers from power and start to undo the damage they have done and continue to do?
the killing of everyone who supports these laws. fuck you canada
In Canada no-one is using the word 'terrorism' (except the usual suspects who would have pulled out the terrorism card no matter what). We honour a soldier who died in the line of duty, but this is a drug use issue, not a security issue.
Politicians who try to exploit fear will likely reveal themselves, and themselves alone, to be weak-minded cowards.
A Revolution is clearly needed in canada and the UK to restore freedom to the common man.
HAVE YOU LOOKED at zengardner.com ?
Why is nobody shocked that the summary contains a link to a nutjob whackos website labeled merely as "internet observers" ?
If they actually make this a law, my money is on that there won't be any set penalties or specific guidelines for enforcement, so in actuality nothing will really change, but it will give them an excuse to enforce it when it is convenient for them.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Any one of various people who would want the new measures could have hired the guy. This would be far more cost-effective than lobbying, especially if they needed to sway public opinion instead of just legislators.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
And I always thought that the 'draughtsmen' were the guys that tapped the keg, ay?
PATRIOT (drafted in 1995 by Joe Biden and signed into Law 45 days after the WTC incident with barely a single word having been changed)
Before 1914 one of the more unusual features of the United Kingdom's unwritten constitution was its lack of any specific provision for civil and military emergencies: in particular, the government lacked the power to proclaim a state of emergency, and thereby free itself to govern by regulation, suspend civil liberties, and impose martial law. Under the common law the British government's emergency powers were wide but poorly defined. According to English jurist and constitutional theorist A. V. Dicey, the crown and its servants had the right and the duty to restore peace and order by any means necessary: “they are, each and all of them, authorized to employ so much force, even to the taking of life, as may be necessary for that purpose, and they are none of them entitled to use more” (Dicey : 289). But servants of the crown whose actions exceeded the demands of the situation were liable to prosecution afterward — and in such cases, obedience to superior orders was no defense. “Hence,” as Dicey admitted, “the position of a soldier is in theory and may be in practice a difficult one. He may, as it has been well said, be liable to be shot by a court martial if he disobeys an order, and to be hanged by a judge and jury if he obeys it” (Dicey 1960: 303).
The various War Powers Acts enacted just prior to The Great War (in that case the Defence of the Realm Consolidation Act), WWII, and the various civil emergencies since (1920, 1926, 1939–1940, 1964...), have all been expertly drafted and enacted to cover every contingency *before* the events they describe even occur, not as a reactive legislation afterward. That in itself should raise suspicions as to the motive behind such legislation and the machinations behind such as the Russian invasion of Poland (yes, they went in first and they were basically ignored by all but Germany) and the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Actually, this is one of a collections of bills that have been bandied about for some time, but our PM knows they are not generally popular, and despite holding a majority, has pulled several times before.
The events this week are being used to elicit support for their collective passing with no debate, which again, is moot due to his party majority.
But I really think our leader is concerned about what history will write, and there is a strong voice here, partly in thanks to our public broadcaster, which has been trying to keep a level tone, as has been widely reported in other media. (Few of the other television stations are sadly, following suit.).
By using this window to pass this in a less partisan fashion, perhaps he won't shoulder the blame fully for destroying our great nation by making mental health, not a health issue, or even a criminal issue, but a military/natsec one.
I hope we can collectively shame him away from it again, because he does actually seem sensitive to this when we speak out.
Just last month PM Steven Harper refused to consider even an inquiry into the murder of more than a thousand indigenous Canadian women. http://www.thestar.com/opinion... Now somebody murders people closer to himself and suddenly he's ready to challenge the constitution? Tells you how much he values some women over his own skin.
He said the murder of Native women (8x that of non-native women in Canada) was "criminal" but not "sociological." He believes it should be dealt with as a police matter, without looking at larger causes and prevention – no changes necessary. But suddenly now we hear calls of "terrorists" and necessary measures because it appears some murders effect politicians more than others. Canada's indigenous women have been "terrorized" for a long time. I'd think if we reduce violence against the most vulnerable it will make us all safer, but maybe I'm being sociological?
I really doubt that a Christian minister who preaches that non Christians will burn in hell for eternity would be jailed. But if a Muslem claimed the same he would be jailed. Hell fire and brimstone preachers were the norm in the Christian faith until about 1920 or so. I also feel that when people are hampered in their speech they are much more likely to become enraged. Essentially the govenrment is impident and acting foolish with a knee jerk reaction.
Islam wants to rule this world, but Islam also knows that right now it can't
Right now the Western society is too much in different from the one from the Islamic world, that is why Islam is betting on the West to adopt more and more knee-jerk restrictive policies every time an attack happens, and with the more attacks the West gets, the more restrictive the Western society becomes - until the day the Western society is not that much difference from that of the Islamic World, and when that time comes, it will be a piece of cake for Islam to become the West's newest overlord
Very recently, Canada's domestic intelligence agency (mandate to operate exclusively in Canada), has asked for money to 'track people outside of Canada'. ... but tracking actions outside of Canada is not part of their mandate. ...and Canada has a much older foreign intelligence agency with the explicit mandate of tracking the state of the world (and Canadians on foreign soil, and has connections to the NSA, GCHQ, ASD, GCSB, ). Clearly one government agency isn't getting along with another, there are silos, and one agency is taking the opportunity to both increase its budget, and expand its mandate (and maintain the silo). And its just another week in Canada.
This happened with john ashcroft and the PATRIOT act. Same bullshit, different country. Fuck these tyrants.
Not to say the shooting wasn't cowardly and horrific, but it was an attack on government and military personnel and not civilians...
I'm sure Bennet Haselton could come up with some incredibly complicated system involving voice activation, queueing theory and fingerprint recognition to solve all that.
Or you could put another non-ceremonial guard.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Aren't you fucking special.
All nut jobs are not posting crazy talk on-line. This is just more of the people in power getting worried that the shit they are up to coming out and there being a revolt, this is revolt prevention.
It's tragic what this gunner did and I don't believe he had that right reasons to do what he did. One day however, if all the dirty laundry comes out, people might have a reason to force a new vote, and disrupt the governments ability to tamper with it. Naturally the government will be opposed to this, and people will protest / try to stop the government.
They want their finger on all of that so they can keep putting in 'security measures' so they can quickly silence legitimate protests and a legitimate revolution over the way the government operates.
Canada does a lot better than the U.S. of dealing with people with mental disorders.
It's reflected by the relative number of these types of events in either country.
Canada does a lot better than the U.S. of dealing with people with mental disorders.
It's reflected by the relative number of these types of events in either country.
That doesn't prove that at all, nor does it even try to.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Does no one read the second amendment? Where does it say firearms? We have laws against switch blades, slung shot, and computer programs (now revoked due to first amendment stuff) and other "arms". Restrictions are all a joke going off of fear and often racism rather than what is logical and the best for society.
It is about time the world stopped hearing the rubbish spouted by religion but banning it will not make that happen, they will just see themselves as victimised. By far the best thing to do is allow free speech so that such ideas are ridiculed by the world.
Where did the articles mentions that speech such as "'disbelievers' will be consigned to the fires of Hell for eternity" will be criminalized?
1) Rouleau's website featured a black ISIS flag and condemn disbelievers
2) Bill C-13 will criminialize hate propaganda, including Rouleau's website
And therefore, the bill criminalized condemnation of disbeliever?
A few years back, some drunk jerks were caught on camera peeing on the war memorial. The government thought this wasn't very good. So they posted a ceremonial guard, to essentially ward off the drunken pee. To be effective at that, one needs to stand there, so drunk people don't feel comfortable peeing there. Giving the guy a fully loaded automatic weapon might be seen as a bit of overkill... Is he realistically going to bullet spray potential drunken pee jerks?
As previously mentioned, the guy was just standing there and got shot in the back. Having a loaded weapon, or even bullets, wouldn't have been any help.
I do find it a bit dishonorable that the government is using this as an excuse to push though draconian laws however.
Actually I buy that it was terrorism. Both perps seemed to be Islamic converts and true believers in Jihad. It wasn't organized and that's why it caught the police off guard. First offence for both criminals.
What put me off was the excessive media coverage. Yes it's a big story, but the Canadian news channels went all Fox/CNN on us and ran nothing but this story all day and all night. After a while they had nothing new or important to say, so they resorted to "a different point of view" stories or "let's ask some random commentator their opinion".