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Law Lets IRS Seize Accounts On Suspicion, No Crime Required
schwit1 writes: The IRS admits to seizing hundreds of thousands of dollars of private assets, without any proof of illegal activity, merely because there is a law that lets them do it. From the article: "Using a law designed to catch drug traffickers, racketeers and terrorists by tracking their cash, the government has gone after run-of-the-mill business owners and wage earners without so much as an allegation that they have committed serious crimes. The government can take the money without ever filing a criminal complaint, and the owners are left to prove they are innocent. Many give up and settle the case for a portion of their money.
'They're going after people who are really not criminals,' said David Smith, a former federal prosecutor who is now a forfeiture expert and lawyer in Virginia. 'They're middle-class citizens who have never had any trouble with the law.'" The article describes several specific cases, all of which are beyond egregious and are in fact entirely unconstitutional. The Bill of Rights is very clear about this: The federal government cannot take private property without just compensation."
'They're going after people who are really not criminals,' said David Smith, a former federal prosecutor who is now a forfeiture expert and lawyer in Virginia. 'They're middle-class citizens who have never had any trouble with the law.'" The article describes several specific cases, all of which are beyond egregious and are in fact entirely unconstitutional. The Bill of Rights is very clear about this: The federal government cannot take private property without just compensation."
it's a bad law and i don't think it should exist but most of the examples in the article are people highly likely to be cheating on their taxes by running a cash only business and under reporting their revenues.
Ok.
But there are existing processes to investigate and prosecute tax cheats. Use them.
I guess the IRS saw the 2.5B dollar haul local cops have brought in since 9-11, and said "oooo look! I bet we can do that too...thanks 9-11! thanks Patriot Act!! thanks terrorists!!!"
What happened to be "innocent until proven guilty"? Nothing wrong with investigating people with hard-to-track business models. But fleecing them just because their business model makes total control harder to do? Not exactly an incentive to be honest when you are going to be fleeced anyway, is it?
Since legalized theft through Civil Forfeiture pumps billions of dollars every year into the coffers of police departments throughout the country, the IRS simply wants their piece of the pie as well.
What happens when bitcoin crashes? Also as you live in the USA you are subject US taxes. even if it is bitcoin. if you are not paying taxes the IRS can treat you like they treated Al capone.
The IRS
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Since it sounds like it breaks multiple amendment in the bill of rights, to be specific the 4th, 5th, and 8th. Let's see, the 4th prohibits unreasonable seizures which this is. You'd think it breaks the 5th since that literally says "nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law". (How is taking property with no ability to get it back not expressly prohibited by that?) Finally it breaks the 8th in my mind because "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." to me means the only appropriate punishment if there has been no crime proven is no punishment at all.
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
There will never be a legitimate independent candidate with a chance to make it to office. The big two will see to that.
Then we come over all indignant when that law (which is "on the books") is used outside its originally intended area of application.
Am I the only one who thinks that Congress is to blame here (for passing sloppy legislation), not the IRS or The Government?
Might it not be a good idea to work harder to phrase legislation in such a way that it's difficult to abuse? Or would that cramp the style of "tough-on-crime" politicians?
This seizure of assets stuff is one of the biggest scandals that isn't being widely discussed in the media. It's happening with organizations with police powers at every level in the US, from local sheriff's to municipal police right on up to Federal police agencies like the IRS.
The most insidious part of the story is that it is really nothing more than a tool of upward redistribution of wealth - upward. Like most things in government since at least 1980, the government is all about redistributing wealth upwards.
By far, asset seizure is being used more often against people in the lower half of the socio-economic scale. In Chicago, I see it every day with cars being booted for non-payment of parking tickets, and it's accelerated since the cost of street parking went up 20-40x over the course of three years.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I'm not sure I understand why people don't take the matter to court (and involve the press) to expose the unconstitutional actions of the government.
Because the Supreme Court has already ruled that it's not unconstitutional. I personally disagree with their opinion, but that's how the law is interpreted at present. You can prove you're an innocent owner, but there's legally absolutely nothing to keep the government from taking the property anyway.
It's disturbing, because when there aren't any legal avenues available to address this kind of theft, eventually people with nothing left to lose will start to work outside the legal system for redress.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
They especially can't afford a good lawyer after their assets have been seized.
Ever seen a big government that wasn't bad? I sure can't think of any.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
I agree. Close your bank accounts, use check cashing services and pay everything with cash...
Until you get pulled over by a police officer and he confiscates all your cash under the exact same fucked up law.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
If they've done nothing wrong, they have nothing to worry about.
I hope you were being sarcastic but it's modded 'insightful' so that's not how people are reading it! Even if you are completely innocent of all wrong doing having your accounts frozen will have a massive impact on your life. Suddenly accessing your paycheque to pay the mortgage/rent, purchase food etc. becomes impossible all you have is you cash on hand for however long it takes them to realize that you are innocent and to pay it back. That will have a massive impact on your life and to be able to do that simply because some overworked policeman has a suspicion seems highly unreasonable. In fact I'm guessing that you'll need to go to court to get the money back and who knows how you'll be paying for the lawyer or whether you can also reclaim the expenses of the court case from the US government.
I'm all for supporting law enforcement but seizing money on a suspicion without any court oversight is just wrong. If they need to act fast then let them freeze an account for 24 hours to give them the time to go to a court and make a case for seizure. This gives them the ability to act rapidly, keeps the system open to public scrutiny and would ensure that they have some evidence before peoples lives are impacted. Why do governments find it so hard to put reasonable balances like this into laws?
And cash gets stolen by police using "civil forfeiture" laws - apparently having a lot of cash on you is good enough reason.
Ah, I see. You've never dealt with the IRS. Here's how it goes: we've taken all your stuff and thrown your ass in jail for criminal evasion - you owe us $80 million for the $100 million you hid in bitcoin. Prove otherwise if you want to pay less.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
The differences between our two parties on many important issues around privacy, rule of law, and freedom of speech are mostly negligable. Both parties are pretty pathetic, if not defacto evil.
Quote: "'They're going after people who are really not criminals,' said David Smith, a former federal prosecutor "
Ummm, hey Mr. Lawer Dude: why should they be allowed to impound ANY non-criminal item from ANYONE? It's one thing to remove, say, guns and illegal drugs when arriving with a warrant. It's another to say "hey, I bet that cash and those guns are illegal so let's take them " (and the car they're in -- the car is often taken as well) It's been pretty well established that local police depts use the forfeiture laws as a moneymaking operation. How about we take property the old-fashioned (joke) way: after conviction, or at the very least, grand-jury indictment?
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Administrative seizures of money without an associated criminal case began in earnest in 2012. I don't recall, who was running the administration? Perhaps he had more flexibility after he was re-elected.
If they have YOU, there is no reason to have your bitcoins. Having a vault full of cash, but no way to access it, is as good as not having any cash at all. With the IRS, you're basically presumed guilty until proven innocent, so they'll just hold you - or garnish your wages, or take your hard physical assets (cars, property, 401Ks, Social Security, clothing, computers) and continue to do so until you prove your innocence.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
> If they've done nothing wrong, they have nothing to worry about.
Are you kidding? The whole point of this is that you can have ALL of your stuff taken without the slightest hint you've done anything wrong. That's the whole point of this "due process" thing. It ensures that there is actually a reason to mess with you.
They can take your stuff and never give it back and they don't even have to try to prosecute you or anything.
You just lose your stuff and have to deal with all of the nice fallout of that.
Chances are, it will be a COMPUTER that spits out an audit request to trigger all nonsense.
Think automated DMCA takedown.
BTW, your attitude is how the really heinous stuff can happen. All of this bogus "it can't happen to me" or "it can only happen to the bad people" enables things like the purges of Stalin and Hitler's various atrocities. (our own japanese internment camps too btw)
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Every business is guilty of structuring under these rules.
Yes, that's the beauty of it. Everyone can be stolen from. Right now, it's happening in small increments. If there's a real financial crisis, I can foresee every small business in the USA losing their money on the same day.
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