Rhode Island Comic Con Oversold, Overcrowded

New submitter RobertJ1729 writes The Rhode Island Comic Con (RICC) is in the middle of a complete meltdown as hundreds are turned away at the door or denied reentry due to the event organizers selling far more tickets than the venue can accomodate. The Providence Journal reports that "According to Providence Fire Chief David Soscia, too many people were being let in at a time and the organizers were not correctly counting them. That led to over-congested areas in the building which has a maximum capacity of 17,000 people." Meanwhile the Rhode Island Comic Con Facebook page is being flooded with comments from angry attendees describing chaos both inside and out of the convention center. RICC initially posted, "Hello RICC fans! WE ARE NOT OVERSOLD!," and promised to honor tomorrow tickets sold for today. That post generated several hundred angry comments before eventually being deleted (though it survives in part on RICC's twitter feed). Commenters are alleging that RICC is deleting negative Facebook comments. Users are tweeting at #ricomicconfail2014 to vent their frustration.

Comments

People are desperate for culture

[Anonymous Coward]

I went to the Maker Faire last year and it was insanely crowded. It was the most crowded place I had ever been, hour long waits to get food or do just about anything. I have been to healh and wellness conferences where they charge $1500 for three days and they were extremely well attended. It seems like any bad art or artisinal toothpick festival with beer and parking will be mobbed.

The peak of insanity for all this was the San Francisco Ramen Festival. People stood in line for multiple hours to eat a freakin' bowl of ramen. Just check out this ridiculous reddit thread:

http://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/2b5z1a/at_japantowns_ramen_festival/

Seriously, I've just given up trying to go to events. If it's advertised and doesn't have a huge entrance fee and/or absurdly niche audience it will be a madhouse.

Re:People are desperate for culture

[lucm]

Seriously, I've just given up trying to go to events. If it's advertised and doesn't have a huge entrance fee and/or absurdly niche audience it will be a madhouse.

Like those rave parties, when one had to bring a blue sock to a specific parking attendant to get the address of the convenience store behind which a midget dressed like Mickey Mouse sold a map to the event that could only be seen under uv light.

Re:People are desperate for culture

[AK Marc]

Yeah, I have heard about places that crowded. Ever been to Mardi Gras (in New Orleans, before the flood)? I had told people that it's so packed you could lift your feet and the pressure from the crowd would keep you up. People objected, so the next year, I tried it, and yes, you could lift your feet and remain upright. But only in the tightly packed areas. I've not been anywhere else where that were possible.

Re:People are desperate for culture

[Gramie2]

Sounds like the daily train commute I used to do in Japan. Have you ever seen those videos of white-gloved train station workers cramming passengers into the train? Every morning for three years. If I didn't have my book up by my face when I got in, there was literally not enough room to get it out of my bag and raise it.

Not that unpleasant when you are crammed against high school girls and OLs ("office ladies", female office workers), but when it's a 50-year-old oyaji who just threw his cigarette away before stepping on the train it is less than ideal.

Re:Oversold?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are doubting, but that's a good thing. No need to lie about it

Follow the ticket links on their page and you'll end up here: http://www.ticketmaster.com/rhode-island-comic-con-sunday-providence-rhode-island-11-02-2014/event/01004B9BF599505C?artistid=1743904&majorcatid=10005&minorcatid=105&tm_link=artist_msg-0_01004B9BF599505C

That ticket is for Sunday. All the Saturday tickets end in dead ends, but it's Sunday now so I don't know if they turned them off or if they expired due to the date. The main site also still lists a few packages for sale. If the tickets mention that only a certain number of people can be at the convention at the same time and that having a ticket does not mean you will get in, then fine. If not, then they really screwed up and should have never sold more than the capacity amount of tickets.

Re:Oversold?

[ClickOnThis]

I'm not doubting, just asking for evidence. And you're right: they're still selling tickets.

What did they expect?

[Barlo_Mung_42]

Rhode Island is tiny.
Next time maybe they'll have it in a larger state.

First hand report

[Okian Warrior]

I was *at* the con when this went down, was in the rotunda where the marshal/police were, and listened in on all the conversations. The fire marshal is completely to blame for this, he's an idiot.

To reduce the number of people, the fire marshal ordered anyone leaving the con could not reenter for any reason, and decided that going to the ground floor constituted leaving the con... despite having con functions on the ground floor.

Volunteers and con workers who went to the ground floor to connect with the main desk couldn't get back in, vendors who went to their cars couldn't get back to their stalls, program participants (celebrities with scheduled appearances) couldn't make their appointments, people who had paid $$$ for a photo-op with the celebs couldn't make their appointments, and so on.

I innocently went down the escalator to check out the [ground floor] kids area and was marooned. No jacket, no cell phone, and no car keys to get into my vehicle and it was 'friggin cold outside. I saw one woman who couldn't get back in to her special-needs child, I saw one man who came down for wheelchair and couldn't bring it back up.

A better solution would have been to stop letting new people in, while letting the steady stream of outgoers reduce the number. There was no fire, no emergency, no need to be a complete prick to people who were already at the con.

This was the fire marshal being ignorant and inflexible. He's an idiot.

Re:First hand report

[grelmar]

20+ years ago I put myself through U working in nightclubs, and had to deal with prickly fire marshals on a semi regular basis. Time marches on, but people don't change. That wasn't a fire marshal being ignorant and inflexible. [i]That sounds exactly like a fire marshal who wasn't sufficiently bribed.[/i]

Re:First hand report

[Okian Warrior]

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Seriously? You're seriously going to try emotional manipulation on Slashdot? You're a particularly stupid troll, aren't you? Fuck off and go troll Facebook, you cretin.

It would appear that trolling works on you...

Re:First hand report

[hey!]

That sounds exactly like a fire marshal who wasn't sufficiently bribed.

Well, you're probably joking but we are talking about Rhode Island, the most notoriously corrupt state in the Northeast, after maybe Pennsylvania. Some say that on a per capita basis it's the most corrupt state in the country.

I had a colleague whose father was an electrician in Rhode Island. When he saw what the state was paying to maintain the lights on a bridge near his house he figured he could easily do it for less. The contract came up to bid and when he found out the amount he'd have to pay in bribes, he realized he couldn't afford to do it.

I personally like Providence quite a bit. I think Federal Hill is great,Waterfire is a blast, and many times we drove down to take our kids to the zoo or the Children's Museum. But I wouldn't do business in the state. It's not worth the hassle.

Re:First hand report

[jtownatpunk.net]

A better solution would have been to NOT SELL TICKETS TO MORE PEOPLE THAN YOUR VENUE CAN ACCOMMODATE.

I know it's a wild and crazy idea but it just might be crazy enough to work.

Re:First hand report

[jklovanc]

A better solution would have been to stop letting new people in, while letting the steady stream of outgoers reduce the number.

What a wonderful comment from someone who has never dealt with liability issues. Had there been a fire when there were too many people in the building then the fire marshal and the state would have been liable. Your solution may have taken hours to get to the legal levels. The fire marshal's decision was the quickest way to get the numbers down without emptying the building.

This was the fire marshal being ignorant and inflexible. He's an idiot.

The fire marshal was doing his job and doing it correctly. He even compromised. He could have shut the whole thing down, removed everyone from the building and had them all re-enter and be counted properly.

Blame the organizers who did not follow the law and count the number of people coming in to ensure that the building capacity was not exceeded.

Re:First hand report

[Registered Coward v2]

I was *at* the con when this went down, was in the rotunda where the marshal/police were, and listened in on all the conversations. The fire marshal is completely to blame for this, he's an idiot.

It sounds like the organizers didn't properly keep track of occupancy levels and overloaded some floors, resulting in the fire marshall stepping in to fix the situation. The real idiots are the organizers who failed to be sure they could properly control the crowds; especially since they knew the number of tickets sold and could gauge expected attendance and plan accordingly.

To reduce the number of people, the fire marshal ordered anyone leaving the con could not reenter for any reason, and decided that going to the ground floor constituted leaving the con... despite having con functions on the ground floor.

As long as the ground floor and the building were not at capacity that is a perfectly reasonable response.

I innocently went down the escalator to check out the [ground floor] kids area and was marooned. No jacket, no cell phone, and no car keys to get into my vehicle and it was 'friggin cold outside.

Next time, don't leave your stuff somewhere when you wander away. Simple solution.

A better solution would have been to stop letting new people in, while letting the steady stream of outgoers reduce the number.

They were doing just that; except they were not letting anyone in. Letting people go in and out does nothing to solve the overcrowding problem. By not letting people who left the upper floors back in, they addressed the occupancy issue. Once the occupancy levels were within the legal limits and under control, then they can let people in.

There was no fire, no emergency, no need to be a complete prick to people who were already at the con.

This was the fire marshal being ignorant and inflexible. He's an idiot.

The fire marshall's job is to minimize the potential for loss of life due to overcrowding, inadequate exits, etc. before a fire breaks out. Fires are pretty inflexible themselves and don't really care if they inconvenience someone.

Responsibility for this lies with the organizers. The knew what the advance sales were, what previous attendee patterns were and the venue capacity; they could have put plans in place to deal with the crowds and maybe even work with the venue and fire marshall to be sure there were no issues. They may have done that but clearly were not properly prepared based on what happened.

Re:First hand report

[sjames]

There is no way he SHOULD have, but SHOULD and DID are different things. I have seen bizarre things happen when a minor government official finds hhimself in a position of power.

I have no idea if that was or was not the case but the era of assuming government officials must know what they're doing and and be doing what's right died a long time ago.

Re:First hand report

[Registered Coward v2]

While some overselling is reasonable since everyone won't come at the same time nor stay the entire day

Why is it reasonable? If customers pay for the right to be there the entire day, why should the promoter be allowed to gamble on whether a critical mass of attendees will exceed the building's capacity? If promoters want to bet on margins and keep a negative float, they should get a license to trade financial instruments.

Done properly it has no impact on the customer experience. While you cannot accurately predict what any one person will do you can get a pretty good idea of aggregate behavior; so identify your peak and sell accordingly. If 90% of the purchased ticket is the max load then selling selling extra ticket that take them close to the capacity is reasonable. With enough historical data they can avoid issues and maximize attendance revenue. Problems only arise if they oversell without planning properly.

Re:Operative word "Con"?

[ShanghaiBill]

There are counties of some states that are larger than Rhode Island.

San Bernardino County is bigger than Rhode Island, Connecticut, and Massachusetts combined. You could squeeze in Delaware as well.

Over and over again ...

[quax]

... my con experiences demonstrated why a managerial class exists.

I felt a great disturbance in the Force

[93 Escort Wagon]

As if thousands of angry nerds had suddenly cried out in anguish.

The news readers will have a hay day with this story...

Re:tipping point

[smooth wombat]

While you're joking, the official name on legal documents is "The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations".

Providence is actually the "mainland" while Rhodes Island is, well, an island.

Firemans logic

[M0HCN]

That could well actually have been the CORRECT thing to do.....

Don't forget that the fire marshalls job is NOT to be concerned about the paticular event, he is being paid to be constantly asking himself "what if a fire breaks out in the next 5 minutes", can we evacuate in time? Separated people and unavailable car keys rate some way down his priorities!

Large buildings (Like convention centers) have a multi tiered structure of occupancy limits, it is in no way as simple as saying the capacity is 20,000 or whatever.

Typically what you find is that the ground floor has direct escape routes and thus can support a lot of bodies, but that there is a rather tighter limit on total occupancy for floors above ground because these are limited (Sometimes severely) by the available exit stair capacity.

Each floor then has a capacity, and each room has a capacity.

Now the kicker is that it is NOT a case that the number within the room is within capacity makes everything ok, but that ALL of the numbers leading to that room have to be ok.

Add to this that the fire marshall will have seen the Station Nightclub / Great White video nasty, and may well even have been involved in pulling the bodies out, and that he is looking at a conference cente with an uncommon fuel load in it, and I can see a fairly hard line being taken.

My guess is that he saw the numbers on the upper floors well above the available exit capacity from the upper floors even while total building occupancy was below the limit and got the numbers back to a safe level the reasonably fast way, not IMHO unreasonable, and no reason to stop more attendes arriving, as long as they stay on the ground floor (And as long as the ground floor is within capacity limits itself).

Sounds to me like blame probably lies with whoever was running the stewards who should have stopped people heading upstairs once the upper floors number was reached (Any, yes, I know stewarding these things is a pain in the arse), and on whoever did the planning for crowd capacity and occupancy failing to take the upper floor numbers into account.

Were there clearly defined show stop and area clearence procedures in place?

Regards, Dan (Who used to do major events professionally (In europe not the US so the terminology probably varies a bit, but the principles are pretty much universal).

Re:tipping point

[Dragonslicer]

Rhode Island is neither a road nor an island. Discuss.

Some more news coverage of the meltdown

[RobertJ1729]

The local NBC affiliate covered the fiasco, interviewing several frustrated fans, and reported that RICC at one point disabled comments on their Facebook page. WPRI Eyewitness News and ABC6 also covered the story.

Mike Ferreira describes some of the chaos on the Anime Herald:

Families were separated. Vendors were barred from returning to their booths. People stood outside in a rainy 40-degrees for hours only to be turned away. Traffic was backed up for hours due to inadequate parking. People were packed into an event hall like cattle, with little room to move or maneuver, and countless photo ops that people paid for were left unfulfilled.

Some people on Facebook describe the conditions inside the convention center as unsafe. RICC has responded to some of the comments, saying, "There was no mess up. This happens a lot at large events. It is very difficult to predict the turnover flow of patrons. Sometimes, for the safety of all, we need to halt entry to let the crowd thin out." RICC Organizer Steven Perry of Altered Reality Entertainment has been unreachable by media and disgruntled fans.

People are being very supportive of the Fire Marshals who handled the mess. One Facebook user writes, "Fire marshal #9 guarding the Omni North Garage was awesome. Delt with an angry mob through the whole 4 hours." I personally witnessed that marshal do a really great job with a really bad situation. Rhode Island is the site of the worst nightclub fire in US history, and Rhode Islanders understand that the Fire Marshal was acting with restraint and responsibly.

I have not heard about the conditions at the convention center today. They have apparently already sold to capacity but are still selling tickets online.

Re:tipping point

[TubeSteak]

Rhode Island is neither a road nor an island. Discuss.

The original Rhode Island settlers (kicked out of Massachusetts because of their religious beliefs) settled on an island that is now called Aquidneck Island.