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Pacific Northwest Lab's Sensor-Packed Fish Gauges Hydropower Facilities

Posted by samzenpus on from the release-the-swimbot dept.

coondoggie writes Sometimes it takes a fish to do a man's job. Scientists at the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory have developed a sensor-laden, synthetic Sensor Fish that can be used to swim into hydropower facilities like dams to evaluate structures and other environmental systems. Using Sensor Fish, PNNL researchers say they can measure the various forces juvenile salmon experience as they pass through dams. The Sensor Fish initially was designed to evaluate dams equipped with a common type of turbine along the Columbia River, the Kaplan turbine. The pressure change, they found, is akin to traveling from sea level to the top of Mount Everest in blink of an eye.

28 comments

  1. I've worked with PNNL... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    As a result, I have a very low opinion of their competencies. Even if RoboFish (TM) does provide accurate data, I have no reason to expect it will be analyzed correctly.

    As for the bit about the pressure change, they observed a change of roughly half an atmosphere in a (distance not disclosed) of (direction not disclosed) swimming. For those of you who swim, that is very similar to the difference from descending 5 feet. For some creatures, that would be fairly dramatic. For most sea-life, that's an evasive maneuver.

    1. Re:I've worked with PNNL... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      From my scuba diving days, I recall that 1ATM of pressure is 33 feet in depth rather than 10.

    2. Re:I've worked with PNNL... by Fallon · · Score: 4, Informative

      16.5 feet, not 5.

      You gain 1 atmosphere of pressure for every 33 feet (10 meters) you go down. That's nothing for scuba diving or free diving. Heck probably more common than not for anybody going off the high dive at a pool to hit 16.5 feet in the blink of an eye.

    3. Re:I've worked with PNNL... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Looks like a unit selection error. Probably safe to assume that it should've been 5 meters in the root post.

  2. um by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Informative

    So for those that don't measure pressure in Mt Everest's... It's 33% of sea level. So the turbine cuts the water pressure to 1/3rd

    1. Re:um by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      Or by 10psi. They're not clear whether it's relative or absolute.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    2. Re:um by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      I believe its by 22 Olympic swimming pools to the power of 3 libraries of congress myself.

  3. It's a hoax by bugs2squash · · Score: 0

    There's something fishy About it.

    --
    Nullius in verba
  4. Obligatory UPL Content by Matheus · · Score: 1

    From the early days of the WWW... :-)

    http://www.tazerfish.com/

  5. No problemo by ArcadeMan · · Score: 3, Funny

    The pressure change, they found, is akin to traveling from sea level to the top of Mount Everest in blink of an eye.

    That's not a problem since fishes can't blink.

    --
    Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
  6. So its like coming up from 66ft deep to 40ft deep by random+coward · · Score: 1

    So its like coming from 33ft deep to 11 feet deep water pressure in the blink of an eye. Any ichthyologists here? Is this a problem?

  7. Pressure change by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Can't get much power without it.

    Wait a minute... Wouldn't they have known the pressure differential across various parts when they designed the dam? And like one of the above replies, the numbers mean little by themselves. You have to put bluetooth electrodes on the salmon's tiny little brain to see what he thinks about the dam while going through it and trying not being turned into chum.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  8. Air Pressure vs Force by blueshift_1 · · Score: 1

    At least it's not the force required to throw them to the top of Everest in the blink of an eye. Basically it's all relative.

  9. Ask the fish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's what to do when there's no more leftover salmon.

  10. Pocket-size submersibles? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, not really a fish at all, just a small submarine... that happens to be fish shaped... for some reason...

  11. That's not good. by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

    I live in that neighborhood (PNNL is here); the "poor" Salmon folks are trying to break down a few damns, Bush
    even made a trip out to look at "Ice harbor" dam.

    The fish ladders allow the Salmon to migrate and been the main concern, this news is just bad.

    The Dams need to stay for the cheap energy they produce, and they are good places to visit at
    times (fish viewing window) to see the migration; a few fish to lots. 9-11 they blocked access to
    the viewing area, but are open now and a good place to take the kids. (not that that alone should keep them standing).

    There are screens that prevent the fish or other junk from going into the turbines or even getting close, I don't see where this fish story is a problem, but the dam breakers will use this as a smoking gun.

    1. Re:That's not good. by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      The fish ladders allow the Salmon to migrate and been the main concern, this news is just bad.

      Except they don't. That's the problem.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    2. Re:That's not good. by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      I for one hate the idea of having the snake and columbia rivers being navigable by anything larger than tom sawyer's raft. All that recreation, shipping, irrigation, and flood control stuff is just dumb.

    3. Re:That's not good. by PPH · · Score: 1

      The Elwha dam removal project may turn out to be a shot in the foot of all the fish people.

      For years, we have all been taught, and regulations and law have been made based upon the 'science' that salmon are unique to individual tributaries. In fact, the claim is that each local population is a unique species (because language in Endangered Species Act is set up to protect unique species). But then the Elwha dams came down. And the newly wild stretches of river are being repopulated by salmon. Not the same runs that lived there before. Just some fish that happened to be passing by on their way elsewhere (someplace that the fish people claim they were driven to seek) and they said, "Hey. Lets check this place out!" And the stories we have been told are turning out to be pure b*llshit.

      So, salmon are salmon. And habitat is habitat. And we should be able to trade the Elwha for the Snake river. Or some hatcheries.

      The fish people go absolutely ape-shit over hatchery fish. Weaker* (they claim) than native runs. But stronger in that they can't be allowed to compete and must be hand sorted out of the returning runs whenever possible.

      *There was some truth to this back when hatcheries were first started. People didn't understand genetics and diversity as well and would create an entire crop from one or two females and males. Now we know better and can easily mix and match genetic materials across multiple populations (Copper river salmon in Lake Washington anyone). And perhaps produce more robust runs than even nature could create.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  12. Specs by ckhorne · · Score: 1

    "Users interact with the Sensor Fish via communication software developed at Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, with the serial port configured to 921.6 kbps, 8 data bits, 1 start bit, 1 stop bit, and no parity."

    While I shouldn't complain about news reports that include specs, I'm not sure if I need every last detail into start / stop bits and parity of the communications protocol....

  13. someone set us up the fish by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    Great, this is like the worst parts of "Runaway" and "Leonard Part 6". We're looking at weapons-grade dumph here. We'll need to recall Leonard Parker to defeat Dr. Charles Luther's evil plot to h@xx0r the robot fish to kill us all.
    Dammit ScyFy, you better send me my royalties on this!

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  14. Who did what to what? by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

    Who packed the fish gauge with sensors?

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    1. Re: Who did what to what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great machinists reference. Bravo sir

  15. What happens when ... by drpimp · · Score: 1

    A fish comes along and mistakes it for food? Looks a hell of a lot like the swim baits we use to catch fish down here in the south west, except A LOT more $$$.

    --
    -- Brought to you by Carl's JR
  16. enough about the damn fish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's not endangered if you can buy it in the grocery store.

  17. The pressure drop is 3.5 atmospheres in 1 sec by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've read the paper. The pressure starts at 58 psia and drops to 6 psia in less than a second. That is a 3.5 atmosphere drop. It basically turns the swim bladder inside out (yes, the bladder is outside the fish after this) depending on the state of the bladder and exactly what part of the turbine shaft the fish goes through.

  18. Re:So its like coming up from 66ft deep to 40ft de by mcswell · · Score: 1

    I haven't read the original article, but I'll display my ignorance anyway. There are two ways one could interpret moving from sea level to the top of Mt. Everest: as an absolute pressure change, or as a relative change. The atmospheric pressure at the top of Mt Everest is 33% of sea level (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Everest#Death_zone), which is a difference of 14.7psi*0.67 = 9.85psi. At the same time it's a relative change of 67%, i.e. the pressure at the top of Everest is 33% of the pressure at sea level.

    Comparing that to ascent from underwater to sea level, you could ask for a difference of 9.85 psi or a relative change of 67%. Taking the 9.85 psi diff, since a depth of 34 feet (fresh water) is equivalent to an additional pressure over sea level of 14.7psi (one atmosphere relative, two atmospheres absolute), that would be the equivalent of coming up from 34feet*0.67 = 22feet to the surface. Or you could ask for a relative change of 67%, i.e. going from 100% to 33%. That would mean coming from a depth of 3 atmospheres absolute = 2 atmospheres relative = from 68 feet to the surface.