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Amazon's Luxembourg Tax Deals

Presto Vivace writes in with this story of a European Commission investigation into a secret tax agreement between Amazon and Luxembourg. "Leaked tax documents from accounting firm PwC in Luxembourg show how Amazon sidesteps the 30 per cent tax rates local [Australian] players face. The Luxembourg documents, obtained in a review led by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, contain some of the first hard numbers and details on how Amazon pays virtually no tax for its non-US earnings, including in Australia. Last month, the European Commission announced an investigation into the secret 2003 advance tax agreement Amazon struck with Luxembourg that is the key to its global tax strategy. The Luxembourg documents show not only the extent of the related-party transactions in Amazon's Luxembourg companies but how Amazon has changed its tax strategy after investigation by French tax authorities and the US Internal Revenue Service. The change is so dramatic it raises questions whether the European Commission is targeting the right transactions."

26 of 200 comments (clear)

  1. What was quote about Internet and censorship? by mi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Paraphrasing John Gilmore:Corporations interpret taxation as damage and route around it.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:What was quote about Internet and censorship? by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Taxation is damage and if you are not routing around it you get damaged. Income related taxes are anti-progress, anti-society, anti-economy. "Progressive" income taxes are anti-individual liberty, pro-discrimination. Income related taxes are immoral and bad economics (let government to grow when the other spending is actually cut by people, governments should be cut just like all other expenses when people cut down on spending, by tying government to income taxes, society destroys savings thus destroying and preventing capital investments).

      Income taxation is immoral, not only bad politics. It is immoral because it assumes that government owns you, owns your productive output, thus owns your entire existence, your body, your life, your time on this planet.

      Income taxes and fiat money and fiat printing are the evil that is destroying the economy and society and everybody needs to start routing around this damage.

    2. Re:What was quote about Internet and censorship? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Corporations avoid them because it is profitable to do so.

    3. Re:What was quote about Internet and censorship? by williamhb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm sure you'd complain too if you had to pay $300,000,000 out of $1,000,000,000.

      Paying 30 cents for a dollar doesn't seem like a lot... but $300,000,000 is quite a bit.

      Tax rates are too high. This is why corporations evade them: so they can stay alive.

      No, I think I'd be too busy sipping pina coladas on a beach somewhere to complain about much of anything if had $700 million after tax!

    4. Re:What was quote about Internet and censorship? by dbIII · · Score: 2

      Yes I understand your philosophy - teamwork is evil and expecting people to contribute to a group effort is evil.
      Now that's out of the way can we take it as read that some don't agree with it and would ike to discuss details of this tax/tithe/volunteering stuff you see as evil?

    5. Re:What was quote about Internet and censorship? by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wrong, involuntary coercion is not teamwork. Violence is evil and what you call a 'team', I call a pack of thieves if they are using the collective to steal from others to subsidize themselves or anybody ag all. So lets start over: violence is evil. Real voluntary exchange is teamwork that does not rely on violence.

      Using violence to force people to give up anything in life is evil, cooperating on voluntary basis is helpful.

      Taxes are state (mob) violence. Non agression is not even discussed as a subject in state schools, which are used by the state to perpetrate evil stuff with the approval of the mob.

    6. Re:What was quote about Internet and censorship? by Zenin · · Score: 2

      Production follows demand, always, no exceptions.

      No demand (ie, no consumption) = no production, no investment.

      Capital does not do "work" by any sane definition of the word. It enables work, yes, but that's quite a different thing. And still, capital only enables work when it's actually invested...and it's not invested without demand...and there's no demand without consumption.

      And of course savings is the opposite of investment; It's the hording of capital, removing it from circulation.

      Here's the real kicker: It really doesn't matter if anyone has savings available to invest in production...if there's demand, the market will find a way to meet that demand. But when there's little demand...? No level of savings will inspire investment or production.

      --
      My /. uid is better then your /. uid
    7. Re:What was quote about Internet and censorship? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      No, I think I'd be too busy sipping pina coladas on a beach somewhere to complain about much of anything if had $700 million after tax!

      Indeed. I run my own small business. There's all sorts of tricks I could use to minimize personal tax down to almost nothing. I don't because I like the country I live in and I understand taxes are necessary to keep it running. So, I do my taxes normally.

      So sure, it sticks in my craw a bit at the time I have to part with money because hey, who wants to have less money, but Ido it anyway.

      At my income level, it's a question of very tangible things like how soon I can pay off the mortgage and whether to replace appliances etc.

      If I had $700e6 after tax, fuck it, I'd have my kitchen refurbished without a second thought. Then probably carry on with what I'm doing because I happen to rather like doing it. Only I might buy some fancier kit to do it with.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  2. Re:jury by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cool, the people involved in this are going before a jury, right? ...right?

    No.

    And it's worth noting that Apple and Microsoft do the same thing, but because they're paying Slashdot, we're being set onto one of their competitors instead, like the baying pack of dogs we are.

  3. we wish by s.petry · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not only will no executives be on trial for tax evasion, and not only will they not lose any of the fortunes they have been amassing as "bonuses", but we will soon be hearing about how Amazon is broke and taxes are unfair for a company the size of Amazon (it's only good for us commoners to keep us common).

    Oh wait, a few threads are already making those latter claims...

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:we wish by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Informative

      It worked like this: Amazon Europe paid 105 million EU to Amazon Technologies Inc in Nevada to license the rights to Amazon's intellectual property -- the patents and software for the websites, including that button that buys a book with one click.

      Amazon Europe onsold the rights to use this intellectual property to Amazon EU for 519 million EU -- five times what it had paid the US company. Amazon Europe made an instant profit of 414 million EU, which would have been taxable, except that Amazon Europe is a limited partnership. It doesn't pay tax in Luxembourg.

      Normally this would be called "transfer pricing" and considered "tax avoidance."

      Transfer pricing involves a company selling [stuff] to its subsidiaries at market cost.
      Tax avoidance involves completely legal maneuvers to minimize your tax exposure.

      There are international norms for transfer pricing.
      No way in hell is re-licensing some IP for a 400% profit going to pass muster.
      Most likely, they'll have to restate some earnings and negotiate the size of their fine.

      Over the last few years, there have been various hearings in the USA and internationally over transfer pricing.
      It's on the radar of western governments and they're not very happy with the practice.

      The most recent case I can think of was against Caterpillar.
      They settled for peanuts on $2.4 billion in transferred profits.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
  4. Tax collection for hire by putaro · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Essentially what Luxembourg is doing here is offering tax collection as a service. Luxembourg collects a small percentage but much more than they would get otherwise, since Amazon et al. don't do much business in Luxembourg and offers these large corporations a legal shield against other countries' taxes.

    This would appear to be a bug in the international tax system.

    1. Re:Tax collection for hire by BitterOak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This would appear to be a bug in the international tax system.

      Quite the contrary. It's not a bug it's a feature. The kind of deal Amazon was able to strike with Luxembourg is an important defense against overly greedy countries (like the U.S.) which try to tax more than they should be entitled to. Note that the story says this is only about non-U.S. earning. Why should the U.S. be entitled to taxes on non-U.S. earnings?

      If Luxembourg is willing to offer lower tax rates than other countries, why shouldn't Amazon accept? It's no different than choosing to shop at a store that offers the lowest prices.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    2. Re:Tax collection for hire by penguinoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why should the U.S. be entitled to taxes on non-U.S. earnings?

      Why shouldn't I be able to declare my residence a PO Box in Luxembourg, and work in the US but deduct the majority of my earnings as licensing fees to my other headquarters (and so earned there rather than here), thus only paying a fraction of the taxes I would otherwise? And then receive government services and aid due to my low income? That's the sort of thing corporations do.

      And actually I might be able to pull this off, if I create a company elsewhere, hire myself at my company at low wage, and offer the services of my company's employees (ie me) for top dollar, payed to the company. Though I have a sneaking suspicion that this isn't allowed for the little guy.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    3. Re:Tax collection for hire by putaro · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If it was only shielding non-US profits from US tax collection I'd be inclined to agree, but I think they're evading taxes in every country they're doing business in.

      Luxembourg can afford to offer low tax rates because there's no cost to them. Amazon is using the infrastructure in other countries (e.g. roads, airports, etc.) to make money without paying for it. If they actually based their entire business in Luxembourg and then shipped worldwide I'd say it made sense. This is not competition on tax rates, this is just a scam.

    4. Re:Tax collection for hire by putaro · · Score: 2

      Don't like it? Move.

      What Amazon is doing here is eating their cake and keeping it too. They get the advantage of using the infrastructure and then skip out on paying the taxes that fund the infrastructure. If they don't want to pay for it, don't use it.

  5. Re:Does Australia tax losses? by guruevi · · Score: 3, Informative

    Amazon is making a shitload of profit, they're just shifting the profits around by having their holdings that doesn't pay these taxes charge them a 'fee' to reduce the amount of profit they 'have'.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  6. Re:jury by disambiguated · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They're just playing the game that's being played, they all do it. For example: Apple's Tax Strategy
    They'd be incompetent if they didn't. You can order your own tax sandwich here (pdf)

  7. Re:jury by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Just Fucking Google It.

  8. Re:jury by williamhb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're just playing the game that's being played, they all do it. For example: Apple's Tax Strategy

    No, much of their local competition in book sales etc (not being international companies with multiple subsidiaries in the EU) are not doing this. Apple etc's competitors are generally multinationals who also play these tricks. But in many cases Amazon's are not, and the effects of tax abuse are that much more problematic as they don't only affect tax revenue but also distort the market.

  9. But they have not been caught so blatantly by dbIII · · Score: 2

    This time it's Amazon becuase of damning evidence, that's why it's them this time and not Apple or Microsoft.
    However there's more to come and it looks like there's something on Rupert Murdoch's companies (Fox, Newscorp etc) in the documents.

  10. Re: jury by Roodvlees · · Score: 2

    eh? fairness? People have to pay taxes, so should companies!

    --
    Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
  11. mass stupidity by Roodvlees · · Score: 2

    It's so stupid for countries to each have their own special tax exemptions thinking they can lure in some extra companies. The end result is that big companies have meaningless (=no extra jobs but empty buildings) box offices everywhere and effectively pay no taxes. Anywhere! So in the end the countries not only receive no benefits, but also less taxes from their own companies. And it heavily favors big companies over smaller ones. But I guess politics are too corrupt and big companies are paying too much 'lobbying' money to keep this stuff going.

    --
    Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
  12. Re:There will always be tax loopholes by Roodvlees · · Score: 2

    "There will always be tax loopholes" No that's the result of politics, it could easily change.

    --
    Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
  13. Re:Epidemic by 91degrees · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No. I pay taxes because it's my duty to society.

    I also don't rob banks, because I consider it an obligation to society not to do so.

    Perhaps you are a sociopath, and we need threats of violence to control people like you but not all of us are that way.

  14. Re: jury by oshkrozz · · Score: 2

    Yes the pass the taxes along to the consumers ... in a market where most stores has to charge taxes for one reason or another, to have a store that doesn't creates unfair competition. The law needs to be changed one way or the other but a change is needed. This is also the labor issue and many other ones that come to light with global presence