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Start-Up Vsenn Emerges From Stealth With Project Ara Modular Phone Competitor

Posted by timothy on from the stick-'em-up-I-mean-together dept.

MojoKid writes When Phonebloks visionary Dave Hakkens began evangelizing the idea of a modular phone with interchangeable components, many scoffed at the idea saying it couldn't be done or wasn't commercially feasible, that is until Google stepped up and backed a team of engineers for Project Ara. Ultimately, Project Ara's proof of concept efforts bore fruit and the vision is quickly becoming reality, now with apparently new competitors entering the fray. A start-up company by the name of Vsenn has come out of cover to disclose its intention to start a "smartphone evolution" and it also turns out that company has been co-founded by a former Nokia Android X Program Manager. The company also makes some lofty promises and has set big goals, noting not only modular hardware design but "guaranteed updates, maximum security and customizable looks." From encryption to secure VPN cloud services and back covers that are easily changed out, Vsenn seems to be targeting not only "Phonebloks-style" modularity and customizations like Project Ara but also some of the secure device and communication hot buttons that both Apple and Google have been acting on as of late with iOS and Android Lollipop.

30 comments

  1. Something we don't really need by popo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The entire argument in favor of modular phones is highly questionable IMHO. I see little evidence that this will represent a cost savings for consumers, that modular phones offer any serious advantages -- or that this is even something consumers want. It is also highly likely that modular phones will be larger, as modularity implies a component system that is by-definition less space-efficient than factory assembled.

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    1. Re:Something we don't really need by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I can see some advantages, especially if it'll be easy for 3rd parties to develop modules for this thing. Currently, if your phone doesn't support NFC payments, doesn't have good fingerprint scanner, or is missing some other feature, you're stuck. Other phones will have these features but will be missing others. In this design you can customize and add what you want; addition, you might want some features only some of the time. Don't need a camera today? Swap it for a battery. There might be a market for niche applications as well: a credit card scanner for handheld POS applications, a custom NFC module for ID or building access, a Zwave/Zigbee module for home automation, a glucose reader for diabetics, a Braille module, etc.

      The real question is: will these advantages outweigh the disadvantages that you mentioned? I think it will, but only for a small group of people. I never said this couldn't be done but I have my doubts about this being commercially viable, and Google getting in on the game hasn't convinced me otherwise.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:Something we don't really need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want a phone that can combine ipod classic and upper class android into one. So - a quad-core cpu, 2gb+ of ram, audio quality at or better than ipod, prefer support for high resolution audio (cause why not?), 160gb+ of storage, nfc, qi charging, max 5" display, ppi 300+, any camera will do, no need for front facing camera, battery that lasts like ordinary phones nowadays, it is fine if it is 1cm thick, obviously the basics like BT, WiFi, GPS, etc.

      I can not find such a phone for sale, but modular phone theoretically gives me an opportunity to get one. Therefore, I easily see an argument for one and am eager to see them come to market. Whether they will be a flop or not, time will tell.

    3. Re: Something we don't really need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need it more than we need to throw away devices every other year, this could have a huge enviromental impact, size would barely be noticable, it would be easy and cheap for techs to fix.

      The next question is will it be standardized like a pci for phones.

    4. Re:Something we don't really need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the main flaw is with trying to create a fully modular phone.
      I can see a much bigger market for a phone, that is mostly like todays phones but with one or two modular slots.
      This way you get close to the cost and compactness advantage of a fully factory assembled phone, while still allowing you some customization.

    5. Re:Something we don't really need by sirlark · · Score: 2

      Main advantage: I want a phone with everything... Best camera, biggest storage best screen. Right now, that cost's me bout $1000 in my country before the reverse subsidizations kick in. I say reverse, because in my country, buying a phone on plan costs more over time than buying the phone outright upfront for the more expensive phones, taking into account the costs of the plan without any phone. That's a BIG layout where I'm from, but if I can buy those components over time and upgrade according to my own priority list, I can assemble the phone within my budget. Better, after two years roll by, I only have to upgrade the components which are underpowered for me. The screen won't degrade over time, so I can keep that. The battery might need replacement, and the camera upgrading. Chances are a quad-core will still be sufficient in 2 years, if PC's are anything to go by. Wifi, bluetooth, NFC, qi charging, etc... once they're in, they won't need upgrading for a while.

    6. Re:Something we don't really need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like the idea. I want to build a portable PC replacement/pocketable server with plenty of RAM (4GB+), battery life, 100s of GBs of storage, and similar specs that you can't find in an off-the-shelf smartphone. OTOH, I don't need a camera. This VSenn phone is quite useless for my purposes, though, since the only real upgrade over current smartphones with swappable batteries is a swappable camera.

    7. Re:Something we don't really need by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Informative

      The entire argument in favor of modular phones is highly questionable IMHO. I see little evidence that this will represent a cost savings for consumers, that modular phones offer any serious advantages -- or that this is even something consumers want. It is also highly likely that modular phones will be larger, as modularity implies a component system that is by-definition less space-efficient than factory assembled.

      It's not to make them cheaper. Though, being able to put your high dollar investment in the camera, for example, and not the CPU, would have it's advantages. What this is really for is those of us that like to tinker around with this sort of thing. Personally, I'm constantly swapping out components on my PC. That said, this entire situation could fail miserably if they can't agree on a standard. If you can't use company X's camera on company Z's phone frame, this entire premise is dead in the water.

    8. Re:Something we don't really need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You won't get the best, for example the bus between the camera and the phone has a particular bandwidth. A new processor comes along that can handle the extra bandwidth, a new camera module comes along that *needs* that extra bandwidth, but the bus between them now needs replacing for the modules to take advantage of it. The interconnect bus is part of the frame.

      Likewise the battery on a phone uses all the available spare space, in this phone its confined to a single module, it cannot use space in the other modules. So it will never be as compact or powerful.

      A new comms system comes out, it needs a new antenna? Tough, the antenna is baked on the board. You'd have to replace the frame too.

      You also won't get it cheaper, you pay a premium for these interconnects, they all take logic, chips, and battery power.

      You also pay the space penalty, the modules waste space. And of course those connections are all delicate links waiting to fail, held together by magnets.

      You pay $1000 for the top of the range phone? That's silly, buy a cheaper phone and it will still be better than this modular Ara. e.g. a Samsung Grand 2 instead of a Galaxy S5, it's 1/3rd the price now and runs the same software about as well.

      One Plus One spotted the market right. What people want is PRIVACY, they've sold 500,000 phones so far and it is quite likely that they WILL OUTSELL THE GOOGLE NEXUS PHONE. This is where Nokias ex Android project manager should be looking. Android without the Google/Facebook/Yahoo/Weather channel spyware.

    9. Re:Something we don't really need by pepty · · Score: 2

      As AC pointed out, the same components offered in a modular setup will be more expensive, but not just in terms of space. To keep the same profit margins all of the modules will have to be marked up significantly compared to what you would pay for them all packaged together. If third parties are also selling modules, then the entire profit margin has to come from the frame.

    10. Re:Something we don't really need by tonyreadsnews · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. Laptops have DVD 'slots' which are pretty compact which you can swap for something else (hard drive for instance). Phones could have a smilar system. With the right connect, a CPU module (likely has more than just a CPU onboard) could be swapped. We already have swappable SD cards & batteries. Extending this wouldn't suffer that much. Better is you can customize the HW to be what you actually need like replacing the camera with some other component.

    11. Re: Something we don't really need by dannys42 · · Score: 1

      Not to mention testing. And we're back to the whole buggy/deficient driver mess of PC's. It's true that smartphones are basically like computers. But the one key difference is that I'm far less tolerant of buggy software/hardware on my phone than on my desktop.

    12. Re:Something we don't really need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So? Phone design and changes have slowed rapidly, most phones are more or less the same these days, and a $185 phone will get you a near the same experience and feature set as a $600 phone. We are not in the bad old days (cough, 4 years ago) of incredibly rapid phone changes from year to year, and people are sticking with their current phones for ever longer periods of time, upgrading far less often.

      Just because you want the conclusion that modular phones are cool and good for everyone to be true, doesn't mean the evidence supports that. NFC payments have been around for years, and at this point ever more android phones support such anyway. Computers went from being modularly constructed to just being a single set piece you buy with a laptop, hardly upgradeable at all. And people liked it that way! Tech savvy computer nerds are simply not the mass market, and modular phones will present a higher barrier of complexity to entry than just "a phone" no matter how easy you make it.

      And for most people that barrier is just going to be too high no matter how low it is. Just think of all the people, of any age, you've had to help with technology. My sister is a perfectly average 14 year old, and my brother is 21 year old in college studying engineering, and I still have to help both with tech support stuff. Do you really think the average consumer does any better?

    13. Re:Something we don't really need by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      The entire argument in favor of modular phones is highly questionable IMHO. I see little evidence that this will represent a cost savings for consumers, that modular phones offer any serious advantages -- or that this is even something consumers want. It is also highly likely that modular phones will be larger, as modularity implies a component system that is by-definition less space-efficient than factory assembled.

      In the beginning, maybe there's a demand, but in the end, not really.

      Because we DO have an example to pull from for this - the modern desktop PC. Interchangeable parts, easy to upgrade, pick your CPU, pick your RAM, pick your hard drive/SSD, pick your graphics. Do you want a better NIC, sound card, high speed peripherals?

      And yet, you know what sells? Laptops. Smaller, more convenient, but sealed as all heck these days. Though given limited parameters, users really aren't buying new batteries for them so they're starting to be sealed in, the optical drive has long disappeared, and all you can change out is the hard drive and RAM, though even the RAM is starting to be soldered down.

      In the early days yes, you used desktops because laptops were portable and portability came with a huge price, namely they were so wimpy that even a modest desktop outran a laptop so badly unless you needed portability, you went desktop.

      Sure, desktops still have an advantage if you want "the best of everything" but most people just find the outlay too pricey. It's actually pushed the price of desktops up because that's the only reason to buy them - to get super high end components. A $300 desktop may be a bargain, but for a few bucks more, a laptop can be had with specs similar to that desktop. And it's smaller and portable.

      Hell, desktops are getting smaller and harder to upgrade these days.

    14. Re:Something we don't really need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      incidentally, nokia has had some models with backplate functionality changing in the past 15 years.
      others too, nfc backplates etc..

      the problem is that they keep changing. if they had a spec and size spec, it wouldn't be too bad - that is, if you could buy backplates 12 months from when you bought the phone..

      also I think phonebloks concept did it half good only. you ONLY need to separate the soc(this includes the radio chips) and the screen/input/camera/battery(antennas can be here or in the soc block) shell. separating something like a wifi block from the soc is stupid. even separating the camera is not ideal. then you could switch shells based on use for the week or night or whatever or plug the soc into your desktop. phonebloks/project ara is expensive and requires communication between the chips in not so ideal ways and causes less integration into the soc. I'm not even claiming this is my idea, this sort of stuff was talked about between phone geeks some ten years ago - it's the practicalities that have stood in the way: operating systems, soc designs.. and you can't integrate as much stuff into the soc itself since it needs to output display through something generic as well accept inputs in more generic fashion.

      and it has to be a big manufacturer that jumps on it and releases the spec for other manufacturers to build the cores and shells..

      android nokia x is pretty good for the price though. too bad microsoft didn't like it. also it probably sold better than most windows phone models so...

    15. Re:Something we don't really need by moronoxyd · · Score: 1

      Just because you want the conclusion that modular phones are cool and good for everyone to be true, doesn't mean the evidence supports that.

      Reading isn't your strong suit, right?
      GP explicitely said that he sees advantages 'only for a small group of people'. So nobody claims that modular phones a good for everyone.

      But for those few with special use cases or special needs modular phones can be a boon.

    16. Re:Something we don't really need by moronoxyd · · Score: 1

      Funny you say that, because that's EXACTLY what this news is about: While Googles Project Ara goes the 'everything is a module' route, the newcomer Vsenn has a design with only three replacable modules.

  2. Computer Kit to AIO, AIO Phones to Phone Kits by justcauseisjustthat · · Score: 1

    Computer Kit to AIO, AIO Phones to Phone Kits is just another example of the big circle of the tech industry .

  3. Watson come here I want you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have implanted modular phone components throughout your body Watson. You cannot escape my control Watson. Technology has allowed me to put you on a figurative leash Watson. You are my metaphorical bitch now Watson.

  4. love to support, but twitter??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd like to get my hands on such a phone. Unfortunately, I'm not a twit. So I guess that leaves me out.

    Also the 'former program manager at Nokia' is a little too highlighted.

  5. I can see this working by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's try to picture what this could look like after a few succesful iterations on the concept.

    You spec some components from a retailer like NCIX, confirm true compatibility between them and make sure your OS has drivers. A backplate and an LCD arrive, along with a bunch of delicate, bare chips packaged like bandaids, and a semitransparent crystal slab, the "optical motherbus". After removing all but the last layer of packaging from the chips, you confirm that they can be arranged in a tight rectangle within the outline of the motherbus, and that the backplate and LCD fit together around the assembly. Good to go! Time to break the return policy and get this built.

    You peel off a protective sticker from the first chip, the RF transciever, exposing a gel covered substrate. You stick it to the bottom left corner of the crystal motherbus, which has a thin grid of wires, the positive power plane, to help you align the chip. It slides into aligment with a wet click, and the gel starts to set. The chip looks like it is positioned well enough that it won't push it's neighbors out of place. You repeat the process with the other chips, until all of the parts have been placed, and then apply a sticky layer of copper foil on top to serve as the ground plane. A couple traces of copper running around the perimeter of the ground plane serve as the wifi and 5g antennas; they are inductively coupled to the RF chip, which had to be placed in the bottom left corner. At this point, you have a delicate assembly held together with a quickly setting gel.

    You bake the assembly in your oven at a low temperature for a few minutes, and the gel hardens and turns transparent. The LEDs on the chips can now observe and illuminate the optical motherbus, and the lithium battery pack did not explode in the oven. As the temperature drops towards room temperature, the device powers itself of and starts glowing with diagnostic colors: most of the chips shine a good green light into the motherbus (I'm already starting to hate this word), but the finnicky graphics processor is completely dark and the RAM chip is blinking red.

    The GPU is dead on arrival; you need to file an RMA and get a new one. After looking up the pattern being flashed by the RAM chip (google: "ram blinking red 2-4") you find out that there is an optical obstruction between it and the CPU. Both it and the GPU will need to be removed from the board. Back into the oven it goes, but this time you pull it out while it is still warm, and leave it on a warm cookie sheet. You peel back the ground plane with tweezers and remove the bad chips by grabbing them at a beveled corner and prying ever so gently. Under the RAM chip, you see an eyelash in the gel. Oops. Pull that off too.

    A week later, the new GPU arrives, and the new RAM chip you ordered because you no longer trust the one that you removed; RAM is cheap. Everything gets assembled and backed again. This time, all chips are green. You put the LCD module on top of the assembly, align it carefully, and it starts commicating optically with the GPU through a pinhole in the ground plane. Your OS boots to a live evaluation mode and recommends that you finish assembly before going through the setup process. You snap on the backplate and make sure the volume button works.

    You now have a custom assembled smartphone with a smaller than usual GPU and a farily large modem, because you have a desktop for gaming, and you are worried about signal quality in the mountains of western Canada. It fits in your pocket. Your friends all have Iphone 7s', so you can't play on the same gaming networks as them, but you can download an HD movie over a single bar connection while camping. Your friends have no signal in the river valley, so they are not interrupted while they prepare dinner. You torrent an HD movie to project against the side of a white pickup truck, confident that your hardware and OS can work around any DRM scheme you might happen to run into, unlike the Iphone 7, which only plays DRM'd videos. No one cares about your phone; you have beer, food and a movie.

    1. Re:I can see this working by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Cool story, bro.

      Now, repeat this with your 14 year old sister as the person buying the phone.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:I can see this working by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whooosh

  6. I can't get past by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    manicured fingernails on man hands

  7. Project Ara is not a proof of concept by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    " From encryption to secure VPN cloud services and back covers that are easily changed out,"

    This is all software, you don't install a VPN module, you install a VPN software module. Physically features like this occupy zero space, since installing software doesn't make the device bigger and there's no need to put a mechanical representation of turning on a VPN in a phone.

    Project Ara is a prototype not a proof of concept, it suffers the same faulty logic, e.g. "what if you wanted to switch a 5mp camera for a 14mp camera" logic. So they've designed a module support that can support a 5mp camera and a 14mp camera, and if a camera modules comes along outside the pre-chosen parameters, it can't be supported. Uses too much power? No can do. Physically too big in either dimension? No can do, and so on.

    This was already done with a phone call Modu, you could put on sleeves that turned it into an Android phone, a small mini phone and so on. Nobody wanted it, it failed. The modularity added nothing but cost and extra bulk.

    "many scoffed at the idea saying it couldn't be done or wasn't commercially feasible"
    No they scoff because its a dumb idea and the use cases he lists are already done and without all the drawbacks. If you want a cloud service, you install the software, not a module, and no cloud service would make such a module because it would cost money for no return.

    1. Re:Project Ara is not a proof of concept by blackest_k · · Score: 1

      http://www.crunchbase.com/orga...

      about that failed phone company

      "Status
              Acquired by Google on May 20, 2011"

      seems somebody wanted it.

      --
      Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
  8. Last Century mindblocks by ElitistWhiner · · Score: 1

    Really? Lego meets Nokia, that's a concept looking for a problem to solve.

    Maybe GOOG can embrace and extend beyond backcover hubcap thinking

    1. Re:Last Century mindblocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? Lego meets Nokia, that's a concept looking for a problem to solve.

      Maybe GOOG can embrace and extend beyond backcover hubcap thinking

      I'd settle for them just leaving this tech alone, instead of buying it and fuxxing it up.

  9. Here we go again... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    VHS vs. Betamax, DVD-HD vs. Blu-Ray. A format war could hurt any chance this DOES have of succeeding.