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Judge Says Public Has a Right To Know About FBI's Facial Recognition Database

schwit1 writes U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan said the bureau's Next Generation Identification program represents a "significant public interest" due to concerns regarding its potential impact on privacy rights and should be subject to rigorous transparency oversight. "There can be little dispute that the general public has a genuine, tangible interest in a system designed to store and manipulate significant quantities of its own biometric data, particularly given the great numbers of people from whom such data will be gathered," Chutkan wrote in an opinion.

46 of 79 comments (clear)

  1. Re:No it doesn't by lucm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's why Linux is so dangerous and is never used for mission-critical systems.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  2. And in other news... by penguinoid · · Score: 2

    ...the NSA made a memo to show Judge Tanya Chutkan some of what it knows about her.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  3. Re:No it doesn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You're thinkin' Small. Exactly right. Safety is far more important than freedom, especially in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

  4. Re:No it doesn't by Tyr07 · · Score: 1

    There are actually lot of mission critical systems that use linux, some modified some unmodified.

    But in light of your comment, yes, a lot of places don't use linux for mission critical systems. In fact, they don't use a standard operating system, as they're not designed to be configured by users. They're designed to perform specific tasks, being built up from the ground directly to do those specific tasks and do them well.

  5. As a Federal Inmate... by artlu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It is amazing to witness how various forms of recognition is attained from an inmate. Everything from phone privileges requiring voice recognition mapping to recurrent DNA swabs become part of the norm. Otherwise, the penalty for disobeying these "rules" is a multi-week stay in the "hole."

    It's unfortunate that someone with my education and my level of life experience had to experience federal incarceration, but the rebuilding of one's life also requires a public spread of what is and what is not the reality of the system. See my story: http://tminr.com/bio

    --
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    artlu.net
    1. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > It's unfortunate that someone with my education and my level of life experience had to experience federal incarceration...

      Because prison is something for the poor and uneducated?

    2. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are an admitted liar and thief. You are the reason prisons were built. It is not unfortunate that you went to prison, it is unfortunate it was only 5 years for 4 felonies.

    3. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by ganjadude · · Score: 2

      while i dont disagree with your points, its not really unfortunate. what is unfortunate is poeple being locked up for smoking a joint, if you committed the crimes you admitted to (and i assume more based on my experience with plea deals) 5 years is nothing for ripping off people. Sorry if i dont pity you

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    4. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hey shitbag.... If you plead guilty and accepted responsibility for your actions, why do you consider your victims "alleged?"

    5. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by Wootery · · Score: 1

      It's unfortunate that someone with my education and my level of life experience had to experience federal incarceration

      Unfortunate?! You committed crimes worthy of a prison sentence, did you not? The only thing unfortunate here is that you decided to commit those crimes in the first place. I'm seeing nothing to indicate this was anything other than your mistake, and your fault.

      Your claim that your imprisonment was 'unfortunate' sounds like you're trying to shift the blame to society.

      From the page you link to:

      Despite Mr. Klatch’s success, his young age led to some reckless decisions. Mr. Klatch was indicted in 2011 by the federal government, and he subsequently accepted a guilty plea to four felony counts: Conspiracy to Defraud the United States, Securities Fraud, Wire Fraud, and Money Laundering. Mr. Klatch acknowledges that he engaged in deceptive marketing tactics, which led to some investor losses during the 2008-2010 financial crisis. However, he accepted responsibility for his actions, and successfully served a five-year federal prison sentence. Today, he is actively pursuing various avenues in order to make full restitution to his alleged victims.

      'Alleged' victims? So much for accepting responsibility.

    6. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by Wootery · · Score: 1

      You're just a piece of shit, and [mindless shit-throwing continues]

      Awww, you were doing so well with that first paragraph.

    7. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > It's unfortunate that someone with my education and my level of life experience had to experience federal incarceration...

      Because prison is something for the poor and uneducated?

      Generally speaking, yes. That is the demographic that makes up the majority of the prison population.

      Richer & well-educated people are less likely to commit crime, more likely to get away with it, and more likely to have good lawyers.

    8. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      his page says specifically he contributed to the financial sector collapse. hes lucky he hasnt been strung up in the streets

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    9. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Shh. It's not polite to say that so bluntly. Please try to use a more acceptable phrase like 'law and order', 'broken windows/quality of life issues' or, if you must, 'need to keep those animals off the streets'...

    10. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by artlu · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the comments posted about me are what I have come to expect from people who are not completely familiar with my case or with the system. I have taken responsibility for my crimes, and I have done everything possible to try and fix my wrongs. This has included the publication of books - http://tminr.com/the-book/ - whereby the proceeds go directly to victims. It has included seminars to high schools, churches, and local YM/YWCAs.

      The reality of my case is that, yes, I did wrong, but I never created or started any of my companies with the objective of theft. That said, I was merely trying to illustrate that this was a step in the right direction by a United States District Judge with respect to discussing the realities of the system with the populous.

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      artlu.net
    11. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      It's unfortunate that someone with my education and my level of life experience had to experience federal incarceration

      It's unfortunate that anyone needs to experience incarceration, but we live in a world where people continue to cause criminal harm, and as such, incarceration or some other form of consequence/reform program is necessary. Someone violating the rights of others should expect to have their own rights abridged in order to ensure that they will not continue in their criminal behavior. From your own bio, it sounds as if incarceration was an appropriate response to your criminal activity, and the only thing unfortunate was that you engaged in the behavior to begin with:

      Mr. Klatch was indicted in 2011 by the federal government, and he subsequently accepted a guilty plea to four felony counts: Conspiracy to Defraud the United States, Securities Fraud, Wire Fraud, and Money Laundering. Mr. Klatch acknowledges that he engaged in deceptive marketing tactics, which led to some investor losses during the 2008-2010 financial crisis. However, he accepted responsibility for his actions, and successfully served a five-year federal prison sentence.

      That said, none of that is intended as a slam, but merely as a statement of fact regarding the state of our society and your specific case. It does sound as if you are trying to take responsibility for your actions and provide restitution to your victims, though, understandably, some will doubt your motives or question your methods.

    12. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by DanDD · · Score: 1

      This wording from his bio makes me think he hasn't quite learned his lesson:

      "Today, he is actively pursuing various avenues in order to make full restitution to his alleged victims."

      --
      "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H. G. Wells
    13. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by Wootery · · Score: 2

      When I'm forced to guess whether an AC is being satirical or just stupid, I'm generally better off assuming the latter.

      Anyway, no, my sarcasm detector is fine. You failed to make yourself clear.

    14. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by fafalone · · Score: 1

      Unfortunate? MORE people like you, who commit actual crimes with actual victims, who get away with it because of power, difficulty to prove, and great lawyers, need to be in prison. Do you have any idea how many people who committed crimes with NO victim are serving sentences vastly longer than 5 years? And people who are factually innocent whose massively overworked public defender talked them into a plea? THAT is unfortunate. And this is coming from a fellow high-IQ privileged white male who has served time, albeit 1 year for being randomly searched and having the wrong 0.01g of an arbitrarily prohibited chemical.

    15. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by mister_playboy · · Score: 1

      And what the hell does "successfully served" a FUCKING PRISON SENTENCE even mean, anyway?

      That's how he lists it on his resume as prior job experience.

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    16. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by davydagger · · Score: 1

      boo fucking hoo.

      I don't get the concept that being "educated" i.e. having class should ever exempt you from prison.

      I think the problem is that we shy away from putting "educated" people in prison far too often.

      This is why the prison system is, the way it is. We see an entire class of "subhumans", and tend not to think twice when they are incarcerated.

      In a real system, prison is for the people who actually did personal crimes. I.E. CEOs might go to jail for fraud. Football players might go to jail for rape.

      Poor, uneducated people won't go to jail for smoking marijuanna.

    17. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by davydagger · · Score: 1

      richer and well educated people are less likely to get caught, and less likely to get prosecuted, more able to afford better lawyers and get lesser sentances for the same crimes.

      They are not less likely to actually comit crimes, just get away with it. What you have is a perception bias. the poor are percieved as more likely to be criminal, so they are investigated more, with less means of resistance, and more likely to get longer sentances. When in jail, they are less likely to have anyone give a fuck about them, or any bit of "justice" on their end.

      Hence we have the biggest prison system in the world. They were careful to mostly fill it with people that no one in power would care about.

    18. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by davydagger · · Score: 1

      I think you should have gotten 30 years in jail. you've stated that the system shouldn't have jailed you because you're educated. This is the mentality which has people who are truely "innocent" of anti-personal crimes serving long term sentances for hurting nobody, and most people like you still out on the streets destroying out nation.

      you got off easy with 5 years, and honestly, it should have been a lot longer if there was any justice.

    19. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by artlu · · Score: 1

      Actually, the average american deems that 2.6 years should be the length of any prison sentence regardless of crime if you via statistics from the United States Sentencing Guideline Commission surveys. That being said, I do not feel like voluntarily forfeiting every asset I owned, losing the woman I loved the most, and losing three years of my life is "getting off lightly." I have paid my debt to society, and I have full intention of paying full restitution to my victims as soon as possible.

      Wouldn't it make sense for me to get back to work to pay these people back then to rot away in prison? Sometimes the logical ineptitude of the average person is quite shocking to deal with, and if I would've been punished for this same crime in various other countries such as the UK/Sweden/France/Australia, etc., I would have received much much less time.

      Do your research.

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      artlu.net
    20. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by Snotnose · · Score: 1

      Indited in 2011, served a 5 year sentence, and now rebuilding your life?

    21. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by davydagger · · Score: 1

      sorry, I forgot, you rich white and litterate, my bad.

      what about everyone else in fucking prison.

    22. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 1

      Yes, let's be Tough On Crime, rather than focus on rehabilitation. I'm sure that's why our prison system is so great at the moment.

    23. Re:As a Federal Inmate... by Wootery · · Score: 1

      It's a correlation, not a personal attack.

      I am forced to conclude that you're just a fucking moron.

      Errr... sarcasm, again?

  6. Re:No it doesn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Whoosh!

  7. *Will* be gathered? by srijon · · Score: 2

    I presume every time someone goes through the Automated Passport Control system they send the captured image, stamped with a passport ID, off to the FBI.

    1. Re:*Will* be gathered? by davester666 · · Score: 1

      why would they do that? they already have the picture from when you applied for the passport. maybe to double-check that you haven't changed it? but they would use the other information on the passport to tag the matching record instead of using the less-precise facial recognition algorithm.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    2. Re:*Will* be gathered? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      To carry on with ideas like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Law-enforcer misuse of driver database soars (January 22, 2013) http://articles.orlandosentine...
      Thats some history and local news. What the mil and federal districts around the US are seeking is a near instant facial recognition system as a person walks down a street.
      Has police contact been made before? What was the result? A US or international tourist looking at a WW1 memorial in a city moves their camera around?
      A nice approach that can escalate to an ID demand and friendly chat down.
      A social media film crew? Local media students? Social media citizens looking to do a "First amendment test" and post the resulting talk down on their blog or site?
      A larger approach that can escalate to a talk down with enough law enforcement officials to walk around and find the "citizen journalists" car.
      That is why a near instant facial recognition system is so important. Expert local law enforcement officials can be tasked to the person with a camera and then shape the local optics. From friendly to very direct.
      The passports in and passports out would be a nice idea too.
      The US seems to have no real desire to go back to Operation Intercept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... and having secure boarders again.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  8. Re:Ego != IQ by Wootery · · Score: 1

    Somehow I doubt you're the first one to tell him all this.

  9. Yes and No by Trachman · · Score: 1

    Every time you leave an electronic imprint, such as the image of your face, tagged with your ID, it goes to the DATABASE.

    People live with the understanding of intelligence gathering of the middle of last century. There has to be a building, it has to belong to some agency, the information is accumulated to the the files.

    Everything is now gathered in DATABASES, accessible to all the thousands of agencies and is being analyzed and will be analyzed in the future to figure out relationships between elements of the database records.

  10. Re:Ego != IQ by mister_playboy · · Score: 1

    I also was outraged by the listing of IQ. The only number that matters around here is UID, obviously...

    --
    Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
  11. Right to Privacy? huh? by MildlyTangy · · Score: 2

    Right to privacy?

    Do we really have a right to privacy? I tried to find some privacy in this modern age, but there was none.

    I was not doing anything wrong, so I apparently have nothing to fear, but I still cannot shake that disturbing creepy feeling every time I use a digital device.

    Privacy is dead.

    1. Re:Right to Privacy? huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Privacy is only dying because lazy assholes like you throw your hands up in apathy. You are the problem.

    2. Re:Right to Privacy? huh? by Druegan · · Score: 1

      Not explicitly dead.. just seriously endangered.

      However.. I have a room with no windows in my basement.. and a lock upon the door. In that room, there is a comfy chair, and I can sit in that room, in perfect privacy, and read a book. It's quite nice.

      Not exactly modern, perhaps.. but it is just as good a privacy as was available a century ago.

      Privacy is perfectly findable "in this modern age" if one is willing to give up the trappings and BS of participating in our societal systems.

    3. Re:Right to Privacy? huh? by LessThanObvious · · Score: 1

      We have rights to many things not specifically enumerated by the Constitution. Having a right and having the political and judicial support to protect it, are different things. If we are to save our democracy more of us are going to have to be vocal, actually vote and actually donate money to candidates that support the kinds of change we would like to see. It may also be necessary to force Washington to allow candidates into the presidential primary debates even if the candidate isn't hand picked and rubber stamped by the party leadership. I'm personally sick of the current illusion of choice.

      Regarding public surveillance, how about a t-shirt that has a smiley face, but instead says "Fuck You" when viewed with infrared video. Effective, perhaps not, but it would bring me joy.

  12. EDF: Epithet Density Factor by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

    Nice irony, cause apparently missed by some.
    On a related note, Wikipedia or some other organization should do a comparison of epithets placed on Linux vs. Windows throughout the years.
    And then, someone else should calculate an " Epithet Density " for the both.

    1. Re:EDF: Epithet Density Factor by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      10 years ago, a Windows security flaw would merit an article, and Linux fanbois would brag how secure Linux was.

      I would point out how, if Linux were on half a billion computers and rapidly increasing, it would take over as the primary target of thousands of profiteering hackers, and you would quickly find out how secure it wasn't.

      It was a quick ticket to a downmod. I never even used words like "fanboi" or "dried rabbit pebble-chewing ignorami".

      Go figure.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  13. Re:If this stands... by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    You, sir, are exhibiting uncalled-for optimism.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  14. Re:No it doesn't by davydagger · · Score: 2

    for those who don't get the sarcasm, northrop grumman is an exclusively redhat shop.

    Most stuff made by them involving a computer runs RH. From the Blueforce tracker, to drones, to Fire Control Systems.

    Not really a bad choice either. I've never seen linux powered weapon systems fail from software fault. Good choice of distro, RHEL, probably going to get the best support, with longest service life possible, on any operating system, peroid, hands down, no excuses.

  15. Re:No it doesn't by davydagger · · Score: 1

    Security through obsecurity is a bad thing. You can't just trust the government to simply act in the public's defense, in the public's best intrest without oversight. It just doesn't work like that.

    >Think, people, THINK.

    why don't you think about it how its going to work for its logical conclusion, and who you are really protecting. How it works is going to get leaked somehow regardless. If not to large criminal organizations and foreign spies by FBI employees for pay, which is generally how most leaks end up, or disgruntled FBI employees leaking it to something like wiki-leaks, where terrorists can benefit from it anyway, but remaining off the public radar, and not open for debate.

    This has serious 4th amendment implications, and since we live in a democracy, its a matter of public policy and open for debate.

    The policy is "how is the FBI going to use this", with the slightest bit of secrecy, the potential to spy on, and with that, harrass the general public into political submission becomes a reality. You can dismiss this as a conspiracy, but that is exactly what the 1975 Church Comittee(US Senate) uncovered was going on for the longest time.

    Our problem, is that people dismiss evidence against the government as conspiracy theories on face value of being daming of the government, even if there is smoking gun proof.

  16. Re:No it doesn't by Matheus · · Score: 1

    Well... except for the Next Gen ID program that TFA article is talking about which just so happens to run entirely on Linux.

    Oh sorry... did I break your chain of thought?

  17. Re:No it doesn't by lucm · · Score: 1
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    lucm, indeed.