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The Students Who Feel They Have the Right To Cheat

ub3r n3u7r4l1st writes with this story of endemic cheating in Indian Universities and the students who see it as a right. "Students are often keen to exercise their rights but recently there has been an interesting twist - some in India are talking about their right to cheat in university exams. 'It is our democratic right!' a thin, addled-looking man named Pratap Singh once said to me as he stood, chai in hand, outside his university in the northern state of Uttar Pradesh. 'Cheating is our birthright.' Corruption in the university exam system is common in this part of India. The rich can bribe their way to examination success. There's even a whole subset of the youth population who are brokers between desperate students and avaricious administrators. Then there's another class of student altogether, who are so well known locally - so renowned for their political links - invigilators dare not touch them. I've heard that these local thugs sometimes leave daggers on their desk in the exam hall. It's a sign to invigilators: 'Leave me alone... or else.' So if those with money or political influence can cheat, poorer students ask, why shouldn't they?"

11 of 438 comments (clear)

  1. Be the Change You Wish to See in the World by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Interesting
    When I was younger and I first came across this quote by Mahatma Gandhi:

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world.

    I always thought it was bizarrely tautological. If you wish something to be different and you personally can make a choice for it under your control to be different, then you make the correct choice. For example, I don't throw a soda can out the window of my car while complaining about pollution on the highway. Other people obviously don't care but I control the drop in the bucket I'm responsible for and I make the ethical choice.

    But as I got older, I actually found and still find people that think they should be forced to do it the right way even while complaining about the abuse. Case in point, a friend in the medical profession was actually complaining about tax dodges while setting up his own backdoor Roth IRA. When I asked him about abusing the very rules he was decrying, he simply shrugged and said he doesn't make the rules he just follows them. He acknowledged it's shady as hell but pretty much felt like his hands were tied.

    It was deeply troubling ... I get a similar feeling about this article. I understand it is sometimes harder to play by ethical rules than legal rules when everyone around you is benefiting from misconduct but ... it seems this is yet another example of the caste system thriving in India. It's simply stupefying on the "My dad is Li Gang" level.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Be the Change You Wish to See in the World by Spazmania · · Score: 1, Interesting

      For a few U.S. southern slave owners, the solution was to earn enough off the slaves that they could afford to free them in their wills. Were they wrong? Would the slaves have been better off owned by someone with no intention of freeing them as the otherwise owner held up his nose and refused to participate? Would the slaves have been better off in Africa, dead of one savagery or another?

      Idealism leads to conflict and eventually war and death. Productive change happens when moral pragmatists get to work.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    2. Re:Be the Change You Wish to See in the World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      A test is way to assess whether or not someone understands the material. But keep thinking it's a control issue.

      Whoosh! The poster was subtly trying to raise the thought that there are other means to assess whether the student knows the material. Apparently they were too subtle.

      How many tech jobs make hiring decisions purely off of scores on some test and don't bother with interviews?

      Heck, when I took my A-levels they included one-on-one interviews with college professors in the subject area. Can't cheat those except through bribery or intimidation.

    3. Re:Be the Change You Wish to See in the World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But what do you do, when the rest of the class is guaranteed a 100? Be the one chump who takes their chances?

      If everyone else at the gym was cheating, would you? Why the fuck are you at college in the first place? If you aren't there to get an education, you're just going to be another one of the growing number of underemployed seatwarmers with a hollow degree. You'll betray yourself the moment you open your mouth in a job interview.

      So yeah, I am one of those chumps that won't cheat. I even got kicked in the face with an "Oh, fuck. I should have studied for that test" a few times. I don't regret that for a moment.

    4. Re: Be the Change You Wish to See in the World by Rakarra · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I came across a site freelancers.com. Most of the projects on there are for university students cheating on their projects. Just another indicator India has fallen from the bright engineers of the 90's to the dim witted inept engineers that we see today.

      Perhaps that, but also because those bright engineers of yesteryear got into it for the interest in the subject. Maybe they were also farsighted enough to see where the position could take them.

      These days, tech is strongly, strongly pushed in India as it's seen as a great way to bring in foreign capital. It leads to too many engineers who can't actually hack it, like diploma mills in the US but on a much larger scale.

    5. Re:Be the Change You Wish to See in the World by penguinoid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A good university's job is to educate students and certify that the students learned the material.

      There's no reason you couldn't have a university that explicitly doesn't certify that students learned the material. In fact it might be better if they didn't, so they could focus on teaching without all the conflicts of interest regarding grades*. Let someone else certify the students' competence.

      Conflicts of interest:
      1) teachers are motivated to inflate students' grades, because their students' grasp of the material reflects on the teacher's ability
      2) universities are motivated to inflate students' grades, because prospective students are willing to pay more for higher expected grades
      3) students cheating on a university test also sabotage the teacher's ability to teach and the students' own self-assessment ability, besides the usual effect of cheating
      4) universities were supposed to be a place of higher learning; now their primary job (in the eyes of students and employers) is certification. The diploma seems to be worth more than the education.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  2. India... by djupedal · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Where less than 20% of the MBAs are employable. They'll do anything to get that skin, and then do nothing with it but weedle. I had to interview over 5k of them just to come up with 150 that were anywhere near hiring, and 10% of those didn't make the first six months. That figure fell to 50% after two years, as they were constantly looking for lateral moves inside the country. The country? China.

  3. Re:Ok... just turned two score, but... by SJHillman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There's a name for the effect, which I can't recall, but we tend to project our current self into our past self's shoes. When someone in their 40s thinks about when they were a teenager, they remember it as if they had the experience and wisdom that they have in their 40s, not as they actually were in their teens. This is one of the main reasons older generations talk about how kids these days are dumber, etc... because they don't accurately remember how kids were in their day, just how they would have been if they had decades more life experience.

    TL;DR: You were just as dumb as a kid as the "kids these day" are that you're complaining about... you're just too dumb to account for the decades in between.

  4. Re:Ok... just turned two score, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Depends... I'm about the same age as the parent poster, and I know I've done some dumb things, although nothing that would constitute as autodarwination. No grunge tattoos, no Prince Alberts, no Skid Row-esque ear to nose piercings.

    I don't really see the college student age range as dumber. Hell, they have far more info at their fingertips than when I was in college (I had to either use the man command, or actually go to the 1300 page binder that had all the stuff printed out near the room of VT-100 terminals.) The difference is income. Camaros, Buick Regals, and Mustangs got replaced by Civics... and now because of declining incomes, at best, people have low-end Mazda 3s, VW Jettas, Kias, or Hyndais -- cars that people would have sneered at five years ago.

    Less income available, coupled with inflation makes people have to improvise. With the Trans-Pacific Partnership allowing for China to have even more control of the US, living standards only will get worse unless one owns a business or is lucky enough to have enough investments to not have to actively seek out work.

    The high schoolers I encounter are not dumb either. Stuff that was done way back when (racing, donuts in the parking lot, moving a teacher's car to the football field) would cause a teen to wind up in jail with felony-hard charges, and where I live, there is no definite release date for juvis... they have to "earn" their release in the private prison system... or stay in until age 21. Just telling a teacher off, something that might get an afternoon of detention or maybe a day of ISS... will earn jail time, maybe even a felony. So, high school kids are pretty limited in their "rebellion" to what type of breed of cat pictures they can stick on their backpack in class. Music sucks, as pirates have caused record labels to collapse, and only corporate-made bands are promoed. Yes, one has more bands to find, but the days of having a radio station as something in common with others is long gone.

    The kids have not gotten dumber... they just have a pretty crappy hand dealt to them. The wealth in the US has fled offshore, so have the meaningful jobs. Their kids will be the ones walking to school barefoot, in the snow, uphill both ways.

  5. India baffles me. by Anonanonaon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's a big country, and I'm sure there has to be some variance between values among people when you have a billion to choose from.

    But...

    Color me racist. No, please do. I really, really am.

    India is a country where unwanted children are dumped like trash into the streets, corruption is considered normal and the atmosphere of hyper-competitiveness seems to push everybody's brain into a crazed kind of fight or flight mode which hampers every other human circuit. I can't be around Indian culture without wanting to hide under furniture to escape the crazy.

    Wait. Hold on. This just in: Not racist, per se. Because, interestingly, people who are only one generation removed from that seething land mass are entirely capable of developing into excellent, entirely likable people who aren't completely batshit insane. So it's not genetic vile stupidity. It's cultural vile stupidity. Probably a lot like the heavy crime areas in the U.S. -Pull babies out of those places and raise them in bullet-free zones where people treat each other with dignity and love, and I'm sure you'll get fine, undamaged people that way also.

    So, really, I don't care what genetic material you start with, if you force people to endure pressure-cooker lives of massive over-population limited resources and shitty infrastructure, combined with the momentum of hundreds of sustained years of dog-eat-dog corruption, you're going to end up with nothing but vast yields of psychologically damaged people.

    India is a problem I don't know how to solve without basically wiping it clean of humans and starting again.

    Maybe just the cities.

    Folks in the rural areas sound less insane from the traveler's reports I've heard.

  6. Re:Exams are bullshit by cryptizard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That's why in pretty much all of my classes the I replace the final exam with a few class sessions at the end where each student has to give a short lecture on a topic that we have not covered in class. If you have learned what you are supposed to learn about the basics of the subject, then you can research and present advanced topics to your peers. If you haven't, then you will have a lot of trouble. And there is no way to cheat.