Greenwald Advises Market-Based Solution To Mass Surveillance

Nicola Hahn writes In his latest Intercept piece Glenn Greenwald considers the recent defeat of the Senate's USA Freedom Act. He remarks that governments "don't walk around trying to figure out how to limit their own power." Instead of appealing to an allegedly irrelevant Congress Greenwald advocates utilizing the power of consumer demand to address the failings of cyber security. Specifically he argues that companies care about their bottom line and that the trend of customers refusing to tolerate insecure products will force companies to protect user privacy, implement encryption, etc. All told Greenwald's argument is very telling: that society can rely on corporate interests for protection. Is it true that representative government is a lost cause and that lawmakers would never knowingly yield authority? There are people who think that advising citizens to devolve into consumers is a dubious proposition.

Comments

"very telling" indeed

[globaljustin]

Just asking this question (in a serious context) is foolish and ruining America:

Greenwald's argument is very telling: that society can rely on corporate interests for protection. Is it true that representative government is a lost cause and that lawmakers would never knowingly yield authority?

The enemies of freedom want us to be asking fsking moronic questions like this!

**of course 'representative government' isn't a lost cause**

The fact that we are even putting this on /. is the thing that is actually "very telling"...it shows people have forgotten the basics of being a free individual

Re:"very telling" indeed

[timeOday]

The summary is misleading anyways. Greenwald does dismiss the possibility of true reform from US legislation anytime soon. But he says:

Those limitations are going to come from-are now coming from very different places:

1. 1. Individuals refusing to use internet services that compromise their privacy.

In that section, it does say: "Instead, these changes are taking place because these companies are petrified that the perception of their collaboration with the NSA will harm their future profits, " from which the entire summary is evidently gleaned.

But he continues with a section on each of the following:

2. Other countries taking action against U.S. hegemony over the internet

3. U.S. court proceedings. A U.S. federal judge already ruled that the NSA's domestic bulk collection program likely violates the 4th Amendment...

4. Greater individual demand for, and use of, encryption

Obviously I left out a lot. But IMHO the summary is a big misrepresentation of the overall article.

I also don't see the article that representative government is a "lost cause," only that as things stand, America is a long, long way from getting meaningful reform out of today's Congress. (Hard to argue otherwise, is it not? Congress now legislates almost not at all. They don't even confirm Federal judges. )

Re:"very telling" indeed

[NotSanguine]

The government answers to Corporations People answer to the government.

Why would anyone think that People answering to Corporations answering to the Government would work?

The only solution that works here is:

Government answers to the people.

Constitutionally enforced term limits would be a good start. Completely eliminating campaign contributions and setting up mandatory public funding for all elective federal offices would be a good follow on.

There. FTFY.

Re:"very telling" indeed

[ShanghaiBill]

Constitutionally enforced term limits would be a good start.

Many jurisdictions have implemented term limits. There is no evidence that it has led to better government. The primary effect seems to be an increase in the power of lobbyists, since the legislators have less expertise.

Re:"very telling" indeed

[Forgefather]

I agree that the article is misrepresented badly. I read the article long before it was posted here and what I drew from it was that Greenwald seemed to advocating that the solution to mass surveillance would start from bottom up activism, such as boycotts and demonstrations, and not from congress spontaneously deciding that they would play nice. Which is honestly how democracy really works. If congress is failing to reign in mass surveillance it is because they don't fear losing their jobs over their failure to do so.

This is, however, wrapped up in Greenwald's writing style which tends to pack more than a little vitriol towards the government in general.

Re:"very telling" indeed

[Gr8Apes]

Removing party affiliation from the ballot would be an excellent first step. Why is it on there anyways? And removing straight party voting as an option. Each person voted for must be selected individually. Let's see how long parties survive locally when that happens.

One step at a time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Coincidentally, I have stopped using a mobile phone. This is much to the disgust of people around me, apparently it is their right to be able to contact me at any time these days. Failure to give a near instantaneous response causes anger! I have now realised that I was a slave to technology. I'm not willingly going to give any company my money any more. Consumerist propaganda can fuck itself. I am down to spending less than 20% of my income on core expenses (rent/food). Now the power of compounding interest is on my side.

Fight neo-feudalism. The corporation and government are not my lords. I am free, not a slave. I owe them NOTHING.

Re:One step at a time.

[Tom]

Coincidentally, I have stopped using a mobile phone. This is much to the disgust of people around me, apparently it is their right to be able to contact me at any time these days.

You don't have to ditch your phone to do that. You can simply realize that answering it is still a choice.

You can let a call go to voicemail. You can leave a text message sitting there, waiting for answer until it's convenient for you to answer it. It's possible, you know?

I love my iPhone because it puts things into my pocket that are useful to me. Maps, reminders, calendar, notes, and occasionally writing a mail or checking something on the Internet. I very rarely answer mails on my phone, for example.

Re:customers refusing to tolerate insecure product

[JaredOfEuropa]

The success of Google and Facebook, as well as the enthusiasm of some for surveillance ("hey, I've got nothing to hide") show us that people don't give a toss about privacy. We care a little bit for security where our credit cards and naked selfies are concerned, and there may be a smallish market for secure, encrypted products and services, but that's doesn't mean corporate interests are aligned with our own when it comes to security. Quite the contrary, in a market where the prevailing business model is to hook as many eyeballs as possible with free stuff, and make money by selling their data.

Telling us to rely on corporations to shield us from an invasive government is like the fox convincing the chicken that it can rely on the wolf for protection. One way or another, you're going to get eaten.

700,000.

[westlake]

Representatives in the House are elected every two years, and their districts are small enough that the number of politically active people is limited, especially in midterms. By politically active I mean people who directly affect the local. vote, not those of us who only post on Slashdot.
So the House is completely doable. It just requires a few people _in_each_district_ who care enough to study and understand beyond the headlines, then put in a few hours of time.

Political effectiveness demands a serious investment in time, money and manpower.

It can't be done on the cheap.

There are 435 congressional districts in the United States House of Representatives, with each one representing approximately 700,000 people. These are not small numbers. Congressional district

Re:It's all bullshit

[fustakrakich]

No, it cannot be. They didn't vote for the crooks that are running the show. The people who did vote put them into office.

Re:House reps are always campaigning, have small d

[NotSanguine]

With a few hundred people who attend town hall meetings and debates, post on that rep's Facebook wall, call into the local radio station when the rep is on etc, a dozen or so active citizens might well swing a representative's vote,

That's so cute that you believe that! The average congressional campaign cost USD$1.2 million this year. Money talks and it's corporations and other monied interests that are doing the talking, not "concerned citizens." Sure your congressperson will pat you on the head and say "I work hard to make sure our district gets what it needs! I work for you." But the truth is they work for those who pay their way.

You must think things work as they did back in 1946 when this was written. Sorry champ. Those days are long gone.

Re:It's all bullshit

[jenningsthecat]

government malfunction can be blamed on people who do not vote, and are then dissatisfied with the outcome

Funny, I was just about to say that government malfunction can be blamed on people who DO vote. Don't get me wrong - I vote. But I'm starting to feel like a sucker for doing so, 'cause the new boss is always the same as the old boss, and nothing ever changes except the facade and the window dressing.

Voting only works so long as there are truly, fundamentally, meaningfully different choices to vote for, and currently there aren't any to speak of. Sure, there are independent candidates nibbling at the frozen fringes of the political landscape. But they don't have organizations nearly big enough to take on the Repubmocrats, and they are pretty well starved right out of contention by the incumbents, who entirely control the media.

Right now, voting with our feet is the only vote that will have any impact. We need to walk away from playing the game, from the bread and circuses, from the latest piece of shiny being purveyed by the corporations who rule the world with the money and the hard work which we freely give to them. It's time to turn off the tap.

But who wants to be first? Snowden tried, and although I consider him a hero, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes right now. And really, how much support has he gotten, other than cheering from the sidelines from people like us on sites like Slashdot? Even at that, a very large percentage of Slashdot comments that are at odds with the current regime's rhetoric are posted AC. If we won't openly even speak our minds, never mind act on what we believe, what chance do we have?

As far as I'm concerned, voting is an opportunity to claim "I did my part", not a chance to actually do anything substantial. Elections are just one of the acts in the three-ring circus that governments and corporations employ to keep us distracted and divided. Other acts in that circus? The war on drugs. The war on terror. The Kardashians. The economy. Facebook. Twitter. Slashdot. And on and on and on. We are being distracted and amused unto the death of our essential freedoms and of any claim to autonomy.

Until we can get our shit together well enough to take action en masse, (or even directed inaction), we'll get more of the same crap from our 'governorations'. And arguably, we'll deserve it.

Pray to God and Row Toward Shore

[Bob9113]

There's a religious refrain, "Pray to God but row toward shore." It means you should ask for God's help, but that doesn't mean you should just sit there in the boat and wait to be saved.

From the Cryptome PDF:
Yesterday the USA Freedom Act was blocked in the Senate as it failed to garner the 60 votes required to move forward. Presumably the bill would have imposed limits on NSA surveillance. Careful scrutiny of the billâ(TM)s text however reveals yet another mere gesture of reform, one that would codify and entrench existing surveillance capabilities rather than eliminate them.

We didn't really lose anything. The government chose not to pass a platitude. That's probably not going to change until we manage to fix the twin problem of fear and hatred, being stoked by those who gain from emotionalism.

In the meantime, we need to row toward shore. Keep working on all the cryptography solutions you have time to help with. If you have an interest in meme propagation on social media or propaganda, see if you can figure out some ways to weaken the grip of emotionalism. I am, and it's fun.

Sometimes your nation calls on you for service. Sometimes you have to know what it needs even if it doesn't know how to ask.