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Windows Kernel Version Bumped To 10.0

jones_supa writes: In Windows, the kernel version number is once again in sync with the product version. Build 9888 of Windows 10 Technical Preview is making the rounds in a private channel and the kernel version has indeed been bumped from 6.4 to 10.0. Version 6.x has been in use since Windows Vista. Neowin speculates that this large jump in version number is likely related to the massive overhaul of the underlying components of the OS to make it the core for all of Microsoft's products. The company is working to consolidate all of its platforms into what's called OneCore, which, as the name implies, will be the one core for all of Microsoft's operating systems. It will be interesting to see if this causes any software compatibility issues with legacy applications.

30 of 171 comments (clear)

  1. Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by SeaFox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Neowin speculates that this large jump in version number is likely related to the massive overhaul of the underlying components of the OS to make it the core for all of Microsoft's products.

    Really?

    I think "make the version number match what the marketing dept wants" is the more likely reason.

    1. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by roc97007 · · Score: 4, Informative

      They actually had a good reason to skip 9. Too many third party products checked whether they were running on Windows 95 or Windows 98 by matching the string "Windows 9". It would have been the Microsoft version of the Y2K problem.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    2. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by QuasiSteve · · Score: 2

      I don't know if it's marketing so much as it is dev support.

      Most end-users certainly wouldn't see the kernel version. Computer properties doesn't report the internal version, and certainly nowhere on regular branding would it make mention of it. What marketing material has Microsoft put out in the past that made mention of the kernel version (where that version wasn't equal to the product name anyway - e.g. 3.11)

      Some developers, on the other hand, would probably be quite annoyed if there's a version 7 kernel which doesn't match with Windows 7, a version 8 kernel which has nothing to do with Windows 8, and a version 9 kernel which seems awfully close to Windows 95/98.

      From that point of view, Microsoft should really have started this with Windows 7 - but Windows 10 is the next major opportunity to so after having to skip Windows 9 anyway.

      But for marketing - well they can call it whatever they want regardless of (kernel) version number anyway. Me / XP / Vista.

    3. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      Previous comment was: "Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows..." implying software version, not kernel, which unlike what TFA was talking about, is an integer, not a decimal.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    4. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by _xeno_ · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's the reason given but it makes no sense. The Windows API doesn't give out names like that. The Windows 95 version was internally identified as version 4.0. Windows 98 was version 4.10. (ME was 4.90, and a separate flag indicates if the system was Windows NT-based, allowing programs to known the difference between Windows 95 (4.0) and Windows NT 4.0.)

      So that explanation makes no sense.

      Even more, if you check out the documentation on getting version information, the version returned is now tied to the application manifest as of Windows 8.1 anyway. So you'll only ever get version 6.2 (Windows 8) back unless you explicitly target later version of Windows, meaning the jump to version 10 can't cause problems with older software.

      This whole "Windows 9*" check thing makes no sense. Well, except for Java applications, because Sun actually built Java to pull the version number and then translate it into a string rather than expose it via any public Java API. I guess the idea was that you shouldn't need to know the OS your Java app is running on, but as anyone who's done anything with Java knows, that never actually works in practice. As far as I know that's the only case where you'd ever be doing version checks against strings under Windows.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    5. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by ericloewe · · Score: 2

      Open any of Windows' core applications (except IE) and navigate to the about page.

      Bam, Kernel version plastered right under the marketing name:

      Windows 7 Ultimate
      Version 6.1.whatever

    6. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by _xeno_ · · Score: 2

      The Windows kernel version has almost never matched the marketing versions:

      Windows 95: 4.0
      Windows 98: 4.10
      Windows ME: 4.90
      Windows 2000: 5.0
      Windows XP: 5.1
      Windows Vista: 6.0
      Windows 7: 6.1
      Windows 8: 6.2
      Windows 8.1: 6.3

      (Note: Starting with Windows 2000, the versions are NT versions, Windows 95/98/ME are actually numbered based on the DOS Windows (as in Windows 3.1).)

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    7. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by tehlinux · · Score: 3, Informative

      Bad programmers seldom use APIs correctly.

      --
      Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!
    8. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by CannonballHead · · Score: 2

      There's no way it's marketing. Marketing does not care about the kernel version. Seriously, most people who use Windows have absolutely no idea what a kernel even is, let alone what version their Windows kernel is. And the people who do know what the kernel is and what the kernel version is are not going to be interested in marketing anyways.

    9. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by Minwee · · Score: 2

      This from the same company that released "Dot Nyet".

    10. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You are assuming they were getting it from the API and not spelunking thru some system files or the registry to get it.

      I once worked with a guy who reverse engineered the windows handle structure. Just so he could rebuild it and change fonts on the fly (instead of repaint which was choppy and flickery). He pulled it off because it was close to the win3.0 windows structure (which MS had published at one point).

      My point? The windows API is *huge* not everyone knows every little detail. You didnt have access to things like google. You were lucky if you had a windows bible with a good chunk of the calls in it. Then you had to noodle out which one to use by yourself or if you were lucky worked with someone who had already done it. So there was quite a large bit of experimentation until it worked. http://www.amazon.com/Windows-95-Bible-Alan-Simpson/dp/0764530690 http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Windows-95-Microsoft/dp/1556156766 Up until win 98 MS did not even recommend the right way to get the version. In some ways it was a lot more fun than linux. It was hackable but you had to reverse engineer it first and hope MS didnt blow away the side effects you noodled out in the next version.

    11. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by nine-times · · Score: 2

      Yeah, but they didn't just skip version 9. According to Microsoft's internal versioning scheme for Windows, Windows 8.1 is actually v6.3. Microsoft decided to skip 6.4, 7, 8, and 9.

      So no, this is unlikely to be the result of anything other than Microsoft finally saying, "Let's have our internal versioning scheme match the marketing versioning scheme, and just make all references to Windows show 'version 10'."

    12. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      > except this is about the kernel version and not the distribution name/version.

      As I and others have pointed out, TFA is about the kernel version but the responder's comment to which I was replying was clearly about the OS version. It's one of those things that's called A Side Issue.

      > If you knew anything about GNU/Linux you would have had a clue about what the article was about.

      It's a bird! It's a plane! It's Condescending Man!. I do have a clue about what the article was about, thanks. A good part of my living comes from RHEL administration, and I'm quite aware of the difference between kernel version and OS version.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    13. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      The windows version number and its kernel number are synonymous. When youre on Windows NT 5.2, you're on XP /2003. 6.1, Vista / Server 2008. And so on.

    14. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by F.Ultra · · Score: 2

      Even if you misused the API you wouldn't ever get the problem that is "windows 9*", that kind of string is not available using the API and instead one have to create that string yourself by knowing that major=4 is 95 and so on.

    15. Re:Guffaw! So much overhaul it's FOUR better! by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      Sure it does.

      PS> $os = get-wmiobject -class Win32_OperatingSystem
      PS> $os.caption
      Microsoft Windows 8.1 Pro
      PS> $os.name
      Microsoft Windows 8.1 Pro|C:\Windows|\Device\Harddisk0\Partition2
      PS> $os.version
      6.3.9600

  2. really? by slashmydots · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's Windows 8.1 with a start menu. They didn't rewrite the kernel from scratch so that puts it into 6.4 - 6.99999 range. It's an arbitrary, meaningless number and it's in an OS that they named 10 for no logical reason. They're trying to assign meaning to that?

    1. Re:really? by jones_supa · · Score: 3, Informative

      They didn't rewrite the kernel from scratch so that puts it into 6.4 - 6.99999 range.

      Just a minor nitpick... Software version numbers are not decimal numbers but separate units (major.minor).

      After 6.9 comes 6.10. After 6.99999 comes 6.100000.

    2. Re:really? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2

      ... Mac OS X 10.9.5 -> Mac OS X 10.10.0?

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      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    3. Re:really? by TimothyDavis · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They didn't rewrite the kernel from scratch so that puts it into 6.4 - 6.99999 range.

      Just a minor nitpick... Software version numbers are not decimal numbers but separate units (major.minor).

      After 6.9 comes 6.10. After 6.99999 comes 6.100000.

      Just another minor nitpick... Windows stores OS versions as an unsigned 64 bit integer, consisting of four 16 bit ordinals. When displaying a "friendly" string version of the version, the four ordinals are separated by periods.

      So 6.99999 is not a possible version, as 99999 overflows a 16 bit unsigned integer.

  3. Driver ABI change by tepples · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Are you sure the major version of the kernel wasn't increased to allow breaking changes to the device driver ABI? That's what changed from XP (NT 5.1) to Vista (NT 6) and what didn't change from Vista to 8.1 (both NT 6.x).

    1. Re:Driver ABI change by bondsbw · · Score: 2

      Agreed, this is the big takeaway, that they are moving off 6.*. The reason they skipped 7, 8, and 9 is rather obvious, that Microsoft wanted to align the kernel version with the product version.

      It's not like skipping 7, 8, and 9 causes any additional compat issues.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
  4. Of course there will be... by dmgxmichael · · Score: 5, Funny

    It will be interesting to see if this causes any software comparability issues with legacy applications.

    Of course there will be - in any large pool of people of any calling there's going to be morons - the sort of morons that sniff the OS version string for things like "Windows 9" and then assume it's Windows 95 or 98 and refuse to work; instead of using the proper channels to query for the OS version number.

    As a PHP programmer I can testify that morons can indeed program. I'm one of them.

  5. Re:"One" is the new "i" by ArcadeMan · · Score: 2

    OneBorgMind.

  6. Re:In the words of Linus Torvalds by rtaylor · · Score: 2

    Right up until you want a way to define API changes and continue to maintain back branches.

    --
    Rod Taylor
  7. It's the API by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The reason Microsoft never bumped the version number is because of backwards compatibility. Whether intentionally or unintentionally, many programmers have misused the old Windows APIs that check version numbers in a way that breaks compatibility of their apps going forward. That is, they're checking against future version of Windows rather than previous versions, and as such, their programs would refuse to run if the internal version number had been bumped from 6 to 7 (or 8). Whenever that sort of thing happens, people inevitably blame the OS rather than the application that had the bug in the first place, and as such Microsoft has resorted to some rather extraordinary measures to preserve backward compatibility, even going so far as to intentionally replicate bugs in special program-specific compatibility modes.

    The GetWindowsVersionEx() API function is overly-complicated and notoriously easy to accidentally misuse. It appears that Microsoft finally had enough of that, and depreciated it. It will now actually only report accurately up to Windows 8.1, even in future operating systems, to ensure people can't accidentally or intentionally misuse them. They've been replaced with a set of "too simple to possibly misuse" functions that look like the following:

    IsWindowsXPSP2OrGreater()
    IsWindows7OrGreater()
    IsWindows8Point1OrGreater()

    There's one function for each major OS version + service pack, and it only checks in an equal-to-or-greater fashion, as you almost always want to do for broad compatibility checks. Notice also how you can't even check against future Windows versions until new API functions are released. I think now that MS has this safer API in place and enough time has passed since the initial problems were detected, they can get the internal version number back in sync with the more visible public number.

    There's probably some marketing push in there, because I've seen people (wrongly) claim that since it was just a minor version bump in previous versions, it proved that there were only minor changes to the kernel, blah, blah... Maybe it bothered some particularly anal developers, but I doubt many really cared. It's just an arbitrary number to check at the end of the day, and we're sort of used to dealing with those.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    1. Re:It's the API by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2

      s/depreciated/deprecated

      Oops, dang. You're right. I'm not sure why my brain picked that word - I should know better.

      In my defense, I suppose one could argue since MS is now having that function return technically incorrect results, it's not only deprecated, but also depreciated, right?

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  8. perhaps it's time to scuttle legacy applications by swschrad · · Score: 2

    Windows has so many piles of APIs and hooks rotting in the corners, unpatched for 15 years and longer, that it's perhaps time to blow up the known universe and start afresh.

    the danger is that it becomes open competition for all business and consumer apps. but with a fully sandboxed emulator, as Apple did, the well-behaved stuff should get enough life to allow CrankyCo to take down their FrankenCode and streamline the apps around the core data.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  9. It's just version number harmonization by Pope+Hagbard · · Score: 2

    They've done it before. For example, Word for Windows: it went 1.0, 2.0, and then 6.0 because Microsoft wanted all the Office programs to have the same version, and Excel happened to have the highest version number. Another example is Windows itself: Windows NT went straight to 3.1 for the original (1.0) release because that's where the DOS-based consumer Windows was.

    It's not unheard-of from their competitors either.

    There's really no significance to this story other than a psychologically-important number increment.

  10. OneCore? by jd · · Score: 2

    *Freddy Mercury impression*

    One Core, One System!
    The bright neon looks oh-so tacky.
    They've screwed it up, it's now worse than wacky!
    Oh oh oh, give them some vision!

    No true, no false, the GUI will only do a slow waltz
    No blood, no vein, MS zombies wanna much on your brain
    No specs, no mission, the code's just some fried chicken!

    *Switches to Gandal*

    Nine cores for mortal tasks, doomed to die()
    Seven for the Intel lords, in their halls of silicon
    Three for the MIPS under the NSA
    One for the Dark Hoarde on their Dark Campus.
    One Core to rule them all, One Core to crash them,
    One Core to freeze them all and in the darkness mash them!
    In the land of Redmond, where the dotnet lies!

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)