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Top NSA Official Raised Alarm About Metadata Program In 2009

Posted by Soulskill on from the should-have-listened dept.

An anonymous reader sends this report from the Associated Press: "Dissenters within the National Security Agency, led by a senior agency executive, warned in 2009 that the program to secretly collect American phone records wasn't providing enough intelligence to justify the backlash it would cause if revealed, current and former intelligence officials say.

The NSA took the concerns seriously, and many senior officials shared them. But after an internal debate that has not been previously reported, NSA leaders, White House officials and key lawmakers opted to continue the collection and storage of American calling records, a domestic surveillance program without parallel in the agency's recent history.

14 of 110 comments (clear)

  1. If only... by ValentineMSmith · · Score: 2

    If only the NSA listened as well as the NSA listens, we wouldn't be in this situation.

    --
    Karma: Chameleon - mostly influenced by bad '80s New Wave music
    1. Re:If only... by davester666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      don't fall for it. this story is only part of managing the the snowden revelations.

      this is to try to minimize that he came forward and told the public instead of going through "proper channels", by making it seem that others had gone through proper channels, and that everything had been carefully scrutinized and it was all on the up and up.

      "NSA took the concerns seriously, and many senior officials shared them" = "wow. this looks so wrong. let's do it anyway because we can. and puppies, pedophiles and terrorists."

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  2. Derp by zieroh · · Score: 2

    the program to secretly collect American phone records wasn't providing enough intelligence to justify the backlash it would cause if revealed

    File that under "duh".

    --
    People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
  3. I got some backlash for you. by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 2

    It's time to abolish the NSA.

    --

    I write sci-fi for metalheads

  4. Shows how wrong they were by morgauxo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No one has been punished and they are still spying on us all. Where's the backlash? People complaining on Slashdot?

  5. Re:Argument by vux984 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've heard the argument that this is what Snowden should have done. So... It would have meant us not knowing about the programs

    Pretty much. This. Its just further vindication of Snowden's actions.

    The NSA asserts he should have gone through channells. Snowden asserts he did... at the moment its he said/she said. But this really moots the argument entirely. Other people DID go through internal channels, and it didn't fix the problem.

    Therefor leaking/whistle blowing really is the ONLY way that would have worked.

  6. The United States is turning into Untied States by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2

    No one has been punished and they are still spying on us all

    That's the kicker, ain't it?

    No matter how much the citizens have protested, TPTB still REFUSES to listen

    We call ourselves a "democratic country" but are we truly democratic?

    Our government, the government of the United States of America, is behaving exactly like a tyrannical regime - in which it not only conveniently ignores the wish of the citizentry, it continues to carry out programs which are designed to undermine the validity of the democratic principles within the country

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:The United States is turning into Untied States by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We call ourselves a "democratic country" but are we truly democratic?

      Our government, the government of the United States of America, is behaving exactly like a tyrannical regime - in which it not only conveniently ignores the wish of the citizentry, it continues to carry out programs which are designed to undermine the validity of the democratic principles within the country

      Many have argued that this is the natural tendency of democracy. Plato ranked democracy as the second-worst type of government, inevitably degrading into tyranny, since the "mob" will always eventually be swayed to vote away their power by promises from some prospective tyrant who promises them something that appeals to their immediate concerns (safety, security, food, wealth, homes, land, etc.). So, the "mob" votes away their rights in exchange for something else that seems more important at the moment.

      The ancient Romans solved this problem with a special office of dictator, which was only appointed for limited times to deal with a crisis. There was a strong tradition in the Roman Republic (which held for at least a few centuries) where ambition to be a sole leader was strongly discouraged among the ruling class -- to be accused of desiring power was one of the worst sins. The topmost offices were only to be held for one short term in one's lifetime, or at least with a period of several years between, to prevent anything like a "king" or "tyrant" gaining permanent power.

      But in the late 2nd century BCE, various elements were set in motion that ultimately led to the downfall of the Republic, mostly due to populist reformers who wanted to give suffrage to more people beyond the traditional "Roman citizens," and those reformers who promised the poor and landless all sorts of things. In exchange, the poor and landless broke with Roman tradition and started electing people to offices for many consecutive terms, and when crises arose, the dictators stayed in their offices for longer and longer.

      Eventually, Julius Caesar came along and got himself declared dictator to deal with various things, but then arranged to become effectively dictator for life. (There's a lot more to the story, involving the gradual accumulation of power in central locations and people, standing armies who supported generals in lawless actions, etc.)

      Anyhow -- the founders of the U.S. tried their darnedest to keep such a degradation from happening in the republic they designed. They were terrified of the mob (as Plato had been), and they saw the mistakes of the Roman Republic. So, they only gave the vote to those who seemed to have responsibility (male landowners, effectively similar to the heads of the ancient Greek demos, the root of democratic ideas). They isolated the upper chamber from popular election in the federal government. They deplored standing armies, preferring to rely on militias when a crisis occurred. They included even more checks and balances than the Roman Republic. In case any group of people did gain control, they built in strict Constitutional limits to federal power, so even if someone had a lot of power within the federal government, most of the powers and rights would be handled by state and local governments.

      Gradually, particularly over the past 75 years or so, most of these aspects of the original governmental structure have gradually been overruled -- often in the name of "democracy" or "protecting the people" or providing aid and help to the poor through a central system.

      Is it a coincidence that this also happened around the same time that the educated class stopped reading the classics? You couldn't graduate high school in the 1800s without having a level of knowledge of Latin and Greek that would probably beat out an undergraduate classics major today. And with that knowledge of ancient languages generally came a

  7. Re:Not all spooks are bad by Pablew+Nopl · · Score: 2

    You are utterly ignorant of what Godwin's law is. Godwin's law deals with the probability of people making such comparisons or analogies. It does *not* say that the comparisons or analogies are false, or that the person making them 'loses' the argument (What does that even mean?).

    Saying that someone 'loses' just because they make a certain analogy or comparison is just a non sequitur. You must respond to the specific arguments they made.

  8. Re:Damn NSA by Pablew+Nopl · · Score: 2

    As someone who cares about freedom and privacy, I don't support mass surveillance of any form, regardless of whether it's used against foreigners or not. I just think that we should have standards before we're allowed to spy on someone.

  9. Re:Not all spooks are bad by Pablew+Nopl · · Score: 2

    It's also logically fallacious. Either respond to their specific arguments or don't bother. Whether the comparison or analogy is valid depends entirely on the situation.

    And 'losing' an argument doesn't even make sense to begin with, unless you're talking about bullshit popularity contests. I love it when you have people arguing with each other and insisting that the other person "lost" the argument because they violated some arbitrary 'rule.'

  10. Re:Not all spooks are bad by Pablew+Nopl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Also, reading that guy's comment, he didn't actually compare his opponent to nazis or Hitler, anyway. He just said "If your logic applies here, then let's apply that same logic to the nazis."

  11. Re:Not all spooks are bad by Chris453 · · Score: 2

    There was no "unconstitutional domestic spying". It was simply records of which phone number called another phone number. If you think that is spying then your phone company has been spying on you for decades. Stop parroting what you hear on the news and actually do some research yourself.

  12. Re:Do you get how Snowden's way was the only way? by dbIII · · Score: 2

    Was his sole intent to damage the US or was it to damage those who are abusing their position?
    Absolute right of Kings went out with King John. The NSA are not the US, only part of it, and should not have unquestionable power.