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DragonFly BSD 4.0 Released

An anonymous reader writes From the release page: Version 4 of DragonFly brings Haswell graphics support, 3D acceleration, and improved performance in extremely high-traffic networks. DragonFly now supports up to 256 CPUs, Haswell graphics (i915), concurrent pf operation, and a variety of other devices.

66 comments

  1. Difference versus FreeBSD? by hawkeey · · Score: 1

    I know that DragonFly BSD forked from FreeBSD about a decade ago. What are the major differences between DragonFly and FreeBSD?

    Also what does the boot process look like?

    1. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by pigiron · · Score: 2

      Is your finger broken?

    2. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      Also what does the boot process look like?

      They switched to systemd. kidding :)

    3. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by fender_strato · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Dillon started DragonFly in the belief that the methods and techniques being adopted for threading and symmetric multiprocessing in FreeBSD 5 would lead to poor system performance and cause maintenance difficulties. He sought to correct these suspected problems within the FreeBSD project. Due to ongoing conflicts with other FreeBSD developers over the implementation of his ideas, his ability to directly change the FreeBSD codebase was eventually revoked. Despite this, the DragonFly BSD and FreeBSD projects still work together contributing bug fixes, driver updates, and other system improvements to each other. Intended to be the logical continuation of the FreeBSD 4.x series, DragonFly's development has diverged significantly from FreeBSD's, including a new Light Weight Kernel Threads implementation (LWKT), a lightweight ports/messaging system, and feature-rich HAMMER file system. Many concepts planned for DragonFly were inspired by the AmigaOS operating system." According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...

    4. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boot process has a menu similar to the FreeBSD boot menu. The installer is a curses script that sets up disk and filesystem, then copies the release image directly onto the disk. Pretty straightforward.

    5. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by pigiron · · Score: 1

      Wrong. That link is to the Dragonfly page itself. One click.

    6. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by ruir · · Score: 1

      I doubt the point of the forum is doing the work for you. If you want answers, stop being an entitled lazy bum and do your work first.

    7. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Relevant: How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

      (philip.paradis posting AC, as I don't log in on this computer)

    8. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 4, Informative

      This... specifically the way he felt FreeBSD over complicated threads.

      A simple implementation would be "every user space thread has a kernel thread". FreeBSD kind of went to the "lets give a lot of knobs and levers for people to play with." It went to something similar to the old Solaris multithreading model where you can say how many kernel threads for each user thread, or one kernel thread per app, or whatever combination. This added a lot of complexity. Ironically, this happened just as Solaris was moving to a much simpler 1:1 model.

      Dillon was worried that it would make it so complicated that only a handful of people could do any coding in the kernel scheduler. This for very little gain as most people couldn't do anything useful with those knobs and levers. He was kind of proven right. FreeBSD kind of stalled out for a bit.

      That was the initial reason for the break. Over time, the design diverged to where he added more message passing architecture in the kernel, inspired by the Amiga's design.

    9. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Theo.. is that you?

    10. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean this?:
      cheesewiz [101] [8:02pm] [/home/duffer]# sysctl -a | wc -l
              3074
      cheesewiz [102] [8:02pm] [/home/duffer]#

    11. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by x0ra · · Score: 1

      sysctl is merely to FreeBSD what /sys is to the linux kernel, just a more convenient kernel / userland interface than the binary-only ioctl.

    12. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      That really is a concern for many distros, though.

      I have to admit that the Linux principle "do one thing and do it well" actually does work. Did some things need improvement? Yes. But systemd has become like a Cthulhu in the system, with tentacles everywhere, far beyond its original concept.

      I have to agree with some others who have said that systemd resembles Windows a hell of a lot more than Linux.

    13. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by slashdice · · Score: 1

      No, but it is stuck up his ass.

      --
      Copyright (c) 1990 - 2014 Dice. All rights reserved. Use of this comment is subject to certain Terms and Conditions.
    14. Re:Difference versus FreeBSD? by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 1

      /sys and /proc

      remember that it's split in two places on Linix now. AND some knobs can use sysctl too on Linx

  2. Version number exceeds number of users... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only 3 known users of DragonFly BSD.

  3. No longer supports 32-bit architecture by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Another OS that has dropped support for 32-bit architecture. This is probably not an issue for most users as 32-bit processors are less common these days. If you have an older machine with a 32-bit processor, you can't slap on the latest and greatest *nix OS.

    1. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by morgauxo · · Score: 0

      Hey, now that the systemd nutters have broken Linux we can go back to calling Unix Unix instead of *nix.

    2. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does Unix have to do with the Linux kernel? *nix is used for various "Unixes", formerly also because of possible trademark issues. Linux is not one of them.

    3. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by reub2000 · · Score: 1

      The release anouncment makes it seem like they didn't have old or low end desktops in mind as their audience.

    4. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AMD64 came out in 2003. 64-bit CPUs have come standard even in the lowest end desktops for more than 5-6 years. One would have to go out of their way to buy a 32-bit computer these days. Dumpster dive something from this decade or just accept that time has moved on.

    5. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      Another OS that has dropped support for 32-bit architecture. This is probably not an issue for most users as 32-bit processors are less common these days. If you have an older machine with a 32-bit processor, you can't slap on the latest and greatest *nix OS.

      PC-BSD also dropped 32-bit support a year ago.

    6. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Writing "*nix" is almost as silly as saying "Micro$oft".

    7. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      *nix = all flavors of Unix

      Micro$soft != all flavors of Windows

    8. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by unixisc · · Score: 1

      True, and also, given that they are supporting up to 256 CPUs, it's obvious that their target is the high end of servers, as opposed to relics from the 90s.

    9. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by fnj · · Score: 1

      Desktops and servers are hardly the entirety of the world. They don't even dominate it. Ever heard of ARM? If Linus felt that way about 32-bit, there would be no Android, or it would have to develop its own kernel. Sheesh. FreeBSD and linux are found in routers and such with very weak CPUs.

    10. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by fnj · · Score: 1

      And FreeBSD tells you that 32-bit will hamstring ZFS, so if you want the good stuff on FreeBSD it's 64 bits for you.

    11. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      What does Unix have to do with the Linux kernel? *nix is used for various "Unixes"

      What's a "Unix"?

      Is it a system based on AT&T code? If so, how much AT&T code has to still be in it.

      Is it a system that passes the Single UNIX Specification test suite and whose supplier is thus allowed to license the "Unix" trademark?

      Is it a system with a Unix-compatible API?

      formerly also because of possible trademark issues. Linux is not one of them.

      Linux is not one of the first types of OS in that list (if there are any bits of code AT&T made publicly available that are in Linux userlands, they're probably small enough not to count), and I know of no Linux distribution that's passed the SUS test suite (unless K-UX is a Linux distribution), so no Linux distribution I know of is one of the second types of OS in that list.

      Linux is (or, rather, most Linux distribution are) most definitely one of the third types of OS, and people do speak of those OSes as "Un*xes", at least, even if "*nix" is used only for the first type of OS.

    12. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      Hey, now that the systemd nutters have broken Linux we can go back to calling Unix Unix instead of *nix.

      At least one trademarked Unix uses a launch-on-demand-based init daemon, so it's not clear that the use of systemd-the-daemon is sufficient to make Linux not be a Un*x. Maybe systemd-the-software-bundle is sufficient.

    13. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unix is all flavours of Unix. *nix is retarded.

    14. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      Desktops and servers are hardly the entirety of the world. They don't even dominate it. Ever heard of ARM?

      Yes, but I don't see any support for it, or any non-x86 architecture, in the DragonFly BSD source tree, so I don't think DragonFly BSD is that interested in embedded systems.

      If Linus felt that way about 32-bit, there would be no Android, or it would have to develop its own kernel. Sheesh. FreeBSD and linux are found in routers and such with very weak CPUs.

      So they've made different choices than DragonFly BSD.

    15. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by reub2000 · · Score: 1

      No need to dumster dive. There are plenty of OSes that support i686 cpus. DragonFly targets high end amd64 servers. Not every OS needs to target everyone.

    16. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      This only applies in the PC world, which means it applies to FreeBSD. But there are BSD alternatives that like to target more than PCs where 32-bit CPUs are more common.

    17. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i always thought it was much simpler: *nix = {unix, linux, abcdefgnix, ..., }

      if microsoft releases windowsnix, then that's a *nix too.

    18. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1
    19. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by tlambert · · Score: 2

      Hey, now that the systemd nutters have broken Linux we can go back to calling Unix Unix instead of *nix.

      At least one trademarked Unix uses a launch-on-demand-based init daemon, so it's not clear that the use of systemd-the-daemon is sufficient to make Linux not be a Un*x. Maybe systemd-the-software-bundle is sufficient.

      It changes the user space sufficiently that the historical text configuration files for logging and other facilities no longer function compatibly with the VSC test suite. If those were changed back, or the test suite was somehow made independent of configuration variances for the purposes of testing, I might agree with you, but as it is, there is no way a systemd based system would pass VSC, and would also likely fail VSX, and the parts of the VSTH and VSRT testing, based on the posix_spawn implementation and XPG/4 compliance.

    20. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      Dragonfly BSD runs on ARM?

    21. Re: No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They all do if you count inetd(3).

    22. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by x0ra · · Score: 1

      ZFS will hamstring your system no matter what...

    23. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I figured that out with FreeNAS on an older Dell system. It was always crashing. The minimum hardware requirements for FreeNAS 9.x was more demanding than previous versions. In particular, ZFS required 8GB minimum (or 1GB per terabyte of raw storage) for optimal performance. Rebuilt the system with a different old Dell system that had more memory.

    24. Re: No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      They all do if you count inetd(3).

      That launches IP-based services, but I'm thinking of daemons that 1) run as process 1 and 2) launch most if not all services on-demand, rather than having stuff run from rc scripts.

    25. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Solaris has their own init deamon, SMF. *BSD has their own, in fact Linux is the only one who have used SysVinit for several years now.

    26. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Guy+Harris · · Score: 2

      Solaris has their own init deamon, SMF. *BSD has their own, in fact Linux is the only one who have used SysVinit for several years now.

      Yes, I'm aware of SMF. However, *BSD's init isn't different from traditional init - in fact, it's arguably closer to traditional init than is SysVinit, given that *BSD init is modeled after Research UNIX init, which predates the AT&T run-level-/etc/inittab-based init. They both use rc scripts to launch non-Internet system services, unlike launchd and systemd.

    27. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I don't think DragonFly BSD is that interested in embedded systems

      ARM doesn't just mean 'embedded systems'. With the high-end ARM processors having 4 or more superscalar out-of-order cores, running at 1.5-2GHz, they're a very long way away from 'embedded'.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    28. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by jma05 · · Score: 1

      I have a 64bit processor on my laptop, but I elected to go back to a 32bit OS because I decided that having more free RAM is more important to me than the 64bit advantages. All my VMs use 32bit OSes even on 64bit hosts for the same reason. So its not just for older machines.

    29. Re:No longer supports 32-bit architecture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly you don't remember the proliferation of Unix & BSD variants in the '80s and '90s. '*nix' was just a convenient way of referring to all the variants beyond AT&T's offering. If you just said 'Unix,' people would say 'which variant?'

  4. Version number exceeds number of users... by qubex · · Score: 2

    I am one of them. Who are the other two?

    --
    "Place me in the company of those who seek Truth, but deliver me from those who believe to have found it."
  5. But does it support Haswell graphics? by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    From the release page: Version 4 of DragonFly brings Haswell graphics support, 3D acceleration, and improved performance in extremely high-traffic networks. DragonFly now supports up to 256 CPUs, Haswell graphics (i915), concurrent pf operation, and a variety of other devices.

    I'm not sure if it supports Haswell graphics or not. Can someone look in to that for me?

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:But does it support Haswell graphics? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I herd you liek Haswell graphics support...

    2. Re:But does it support Haswell graphics? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I Gnu where you Herd that

    3. Re:But does it support Haswell graphics? by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      Why is Intel HD Graphics called "i915", by the way? In my mind it always reminds of the 915G chipset from a decade ago.

    4. Re:But does it support Haswell graphics? by chriscappuccio · · Score: 1

      ding ding ding! We have a WINNER!!!

    5. Re:But does it support Haswell graphics? by nawcom · · Score: 1

      It's the common name for the open source Intel GMA driver for the BSDs and Linux. Supports some old Intel GMA900 (915g) all the way to Haswell Intel HD support, with some obvious exclusions like GMA500. I don't know if it supports older, though I believe in the Linux kernel they moved old 815G support to i915.

    6. Re:But does it support Haswell graphics? by x0ra · · Score: 1

      It does, but it's still buggy. Which is rather laughable, they're shipping a release to get beta-tester to hopefully fix the code :-/

    7. Re:But does it support Haswell graphics? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      JESUS CHRIST that is SO FUNNY. This is probably the FUNNIEST COMMENT on the ENTIRE INTERNET. THANK YOU for posting it and really BRIGHTENING UP our day with your HILARIOUS COMEDY. Please fucking KILL YOURSELF.

  6. Re:And it's dead by WWJohnBrowningDo · · Score: 2

    In case you live under a rock, *BSD serves a third of the traffic on the internet.

  7. Seems Nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a long-time Slackware user I'm wary that there might be a change with all the Pottering-based malware currently infecting the Linux ecosystem. After initial setup and some poking around DragonFly seems like it could be a nice substitute should the very worst happen. I'm still a relative noob as far as BSD is concerned but the documentation is top notch from what I've seen so far.

  8. "THIS IS UNIX!" (forgive me Sparta...) by tlambert · · Score: 4, Informative

    What's a "Unix"?

    Is it a system based on AT&T code? If so, how much AT&T code has to still be in it.

    Yes. Legally, all AT&T derived systems are grandfathered in as part of the License agreement which exclusively licensed the trademark to The Open Group for relicensing to third parties. For example, the transferrable SVR3 and SVR4 source licenses I own as a result of being sold surplus Class C computing equipment by Weber State University under their blanket source licenses mean my port of SVR3 to the Amiga I did for giggles, is legally UNIX.

    Is it a system that passes the Single UNIX Specification test suite and whose supplier is thus allowed to license the "Unix" trademark?

    Only if they subsequently license the trademark. If so, then it's UNIX. If they don't license the trademark, even if it passes the tests (which must also be licensed from The Open Group), or if they fail to register a compliance statement, and have it certified, it's not UNIX. Mac OS X, for example, is UNIX. iOS on the iPad, iPod Touch, and iPhone isn't UNIX -- and can't be; certain required interfaces are conditionally compiled out, as a space saving measure, and additional user space commands are not compiled for the publicly released versions.

    Is it a system with a Unix-compatible API?

    No. A system with a Unix-compatible API can pass the VSX, VSTH, and VSRT test suites, but unless the user space is there, it can't pass the VSC test suite, nor can it pass the compilation environment test suite, which include ISO C certification of the compiler and libraries, as well as passing negative assertion tests for namespace pollution on the header files (Linux/glibc/glibc2 have serious header file problems; so do the *BSDs). Android can't pass because it fails on threading API compliance with the VSTH test, partly because of the "Bionic" libc implementation having deficiencies (it would take a small amount of work to pass the VSX tests in that regard, but threads are the biggie).

    1. Re:"THIS IS UNIX!" (forgive me Sparta...) by kad77 · · Score: 1

      Thanks for posting that specific knowledge! Very informative, bookmarked.

  9. I was the 4th... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But then I ran out of RAM for the VM I was running it in and haven't put it back up since. Maybe this release will incline me to :)

    HAMMERFS rocks as a lighter weight and somewhat more flexible version of ZFS btw.

  10. Fuck FreeBSDgirl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Because of her humongous shittiness and discrimination related work on Twitter, the FreeBSD name has gone into disrepute.

    Please sack her or tell her to rename her handle to freeBS-girl.

    1. Re:Fuck FreeBSDgirl by x0ra · · Score: 1

      She's gonna call other FreeBSD committers (say, Colin Percival, her former mentor) to her rescue, and then she's gonna ban/block you, because it's all she knows about. I guess she could have a chance to work in China for their Great Firewall, but I doubt she has the competence. Even her work in FreeBSD is pretty laughable, it's all on her LinkedIn account, there should not be more than a dozen commit for a rather miserable line count.

  11. Netcraft weighs in by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

    Seriously? This deep in the thread? And nobody's gone for the classic? Fine, I'll get it started...

    It is now official. Netcraft has confirmed: *BSD is dying

    One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

    You don't need to be the Amazing Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

    FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

    Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

    OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

    Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

    All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

    --
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